Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Yoshi Toranaga
Panthernae Tygris Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 11:47:00 -
[121]
No -----------------------------------------------
Oh you know how much I have in my hands in the hands of your shipping records of burglary?
|
elric gallach
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 13:07:00 -
[122]
Originally by: LC Sulla Edited by: LC Sulla on 17/12/2008 22:13:24 Edited by: LC Sulla on 17/12/2008 22:07:19
Originally by: Etho Demerzel Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 15/12/2008 22:45:08
Originally by: Treelox
The forums only attracts about 10% of the total player base. Less than 5% of the total player base even bothered to vote in the last CSM.
ON the basis of what you just said the CSM has no mandate to do anything and so is irrelevant. please refrain from shooting yourself in the footunless your trying to blow your brains out ------------------------------------------------------- Your numbers are wrong, and your emo nerd rage is strong. I you cant attack a persons point of view attack the person -------------------------------------------------------- I might agree to a degree in the sentiment, that CSM is pre-nerfed in their ability to deal with CCP, I do however strongly disagree with your logic and your solution.
so you agree CSM is nerfed then You really should put that gun down while you still have some toes ------------------------------------------------------ In any democratic process those who abstain are ignored. It is this way in the real world and it is as it should be in Eve or anywhere else. You can't know the opnion of those that didn't give it to you, so you work with the opinions you have. So your argument is completely groundless.
------------------------------------------------------ Neither CCP nor EVE are democracies. One is a corporation and the other is a registered trademark. The fact CCP allow for some democratically elected representatives of the community to speak for the community
I challenge that on the basis that the CSM seems to be more designed to speak for CCP. -------------------------------------------------------- Beyond that the CSM have no source of legislative power, can enact no binding laws and have no ability to enforce their will (and neither can the player base incidently - thank god for that). So you think that the player base should have no say in the game then ------------------------------------------------------- This ridiculous proposal definitely does not get my support. Oh... and Etho, grow up a little before you start espousing the virtues of the democratic process. Dress it up how you like but you can't hide what you are.
and there it is you finish you post with attacks on people instead of logic.
As for your support keep posting as you have. It only proves the point that As it is the csm is useless
|
Manakid Tetsu
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 13:07:00 -
[123]
If there is one thing in this world that really disgusts me is people who continously argue and point fingers till they are black and blue in the face and only really make themselves look silly when it comes to having the right to access information about things that dont neccessarily really concern them. The players that CCP banned have got their punishment, no doubt CCP will be attending to Corps and Alliances that indirectly or without knowledge of it have been affected by the exploit. Guilt by associatation, thats actually a petty thing to go after people who had no knowledge but yet have been caught up in it. Basically for some reason you feel the knowledge of people who are already affected will empower you some how, or is it because you want to laugh in their face.
Eve is not a democracy, nor do you really have any right to information which doesnt belong to you. Asking the CSM to resign on an issue is quite pointless and without merrit, as you are basically holding them resposible for you not getting information that you wanted, that is not their job |
elric gallach
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 13:49:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Manakid Tetsu
Eve is not a democracy, nor do you really have any right to information which doesnt belong to you. Asking the CSM to resign on an issue is quite pointless and without merrit, as you are basically holding them resposible for you not getting information that you wanted, that is not their job
clarify what exactly what is there job??
|
Pax Ratlin
Gallente Woodland Larch
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 14:57:00 -
[125]
Originally by: elric gallach
Originally by: Manakid Tetsu
Eve is not a democracy, nor do you really have any right to information which doesnt belong to you. Asking the CSM to resign on an issue is quite pointless and without merrit, as you are basically holding them resposible for you not getting information that you wanted, that is not their job
clarify what exactly what is there job??
Ignorance is no defense.
I understand that you are one of the small minority that were unable to make the leap from the original concept of the CSM to it's actual implimentation.
But really, no matter how well you think your arguing your case, dosn't the fact you have no demonstratable support, beyond one or two others, tell you anything.
I admire people who stick to their principles, i truely do, but when they constantly shout about how they are sticking to their principles and demand that others follow their lead, irregardless of the percieved rights or wrongs of their argument, i frankly wanna go out and buy ear plugs.
I think we'd all respect you a little bit more if you actually fought a battle you even had the slimest chance of winning.
|
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 16:25:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 18/12/2008 16:35:13
Originally by: TR4D3R4LT (snip)
Your numbers are wrong. You may have not computed those that stated support and didn't check the thumbs up item, and you may as well have counted more than one post of the same person. But regardless, even if you were right even 77% is still the majority by far.
Except for the calculations, you are repeating yourself once again, and I already answered to your previous posts. When you have something new to say please let me know.
Originally by: Pax Ratlin
Ignorance is no defense.
I understand that you are one of the small minority that were unable to make the leap from the original concept of the CSM to it's actual implimentation.
But really, no matter how well you think your arguing your case, dosn't the fact you have no demonstratable support, beyond one or two others, tell you anything.
I admire people who stick to their principles, i truely do, but when they constantly shout about how they are sticking to their principles and demand that others follow their lead, irregardless of the percieved rights or wrongs of their argument, i frankly wanna go out and buy ear plugs.
I think we'd all respect you a little bit more if you actually fought a battle you even had the slimest chance of winning.
History is full of vocal minorites that at some point or another became majority. The number of angry people that posted in this thread trying everything to discredit it, many of them trying to pretend they don't care while posting multiple times, shows how worried they are about it.
Elric and a considerable number of others support my views, they may not be the majority in this thread yet, but, as CSM continues to be the useless figurehead council it is, things may change.
=====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Pax Ratlin
Gallente Woodland Larch
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 17:14:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel History is full of vocal minorites that at some point or another became majority. The number of angry people that posted in this thread trying everything to discredit it, many of them trying to pretend they don't care while posting multiple times, shows how worried they are about it.
Elric and a considerable number of others support my views, they may not be the majority in this thread yet, but, as CSM continues to be the useless figurehead council it is, things may change.
History is written by the victors, for every sucessful vocal minority there will have been/ have been a thousand who were the victors.
As for your use of the world considerable, that is sheer poetic liecense on your part. A more accurate description of your level of support is negligable.
But then again that's the point, this isn't an argument about facts, figures and substance, this is purely an argument about perception and your continued attempts to 'round up to the next level' your level of support says more about your perception of your agrument than anything anyone else can say.
|
Cyprus Black
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 17:54:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Cyprus Black on 18/12/2008 18:01:42 Wow, the OP and his alt must really want this list of names. A list that is inherently troll fuel.
Sorry, no troll fuel for you. One hundred and twenty six responses yet only eleven supports? Take the hint and move on. ___________________________________________________ Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 18:53:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Pax Ratlin
History is written by the victors, for every sucessful vocal minority there will have been/ have been a thousand who were the victors.
As for your use of the world considerable, that is sheer poetic liecense on your part. A more accurate description of your level of support is negligable.
But then again that's the point, this isn't an argument about facts, figures and substance, this is purely an argument about perception and your continued attempts to 'round up to the next level' your level of support says more about your perception of your agrument than anything anyone else can say.
Well, I happen to disagree. The number of disgruntled people like you in this thread is not hugely superior to the number of people that supported me. You just happen to post more because you are afraid of something it seems.
And even if you were right, if I am not nothered bymy position why should you? Do you care for me so much that you want to pretect me from rejection? That is touching but really, you can use your time for more productive tasks.
If, on the other hand if you want to discuss about the topic of this thread instead of my popularity, I am more than happy to obligue you. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Daemonspirit
Minmatar Redhawk Tribal Trust
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 20:16:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 18/12/2008 19:43:32
Originally by: Pax Ratlin
History is written by the victors, for every sucessful vocal minority there will have been/ have been a thousand who were the victors.
As for your use of the world considerable, that is sheer poetic liecense on your part. A more accurate description of your level of support is negligable.
But then again that's the point, this isn't an argument about facts, figures and substance, this is purely an argument about perception and your continued attempts to 'round up to the next level' your level of support says more about your perception of your agrument than anything anyone else can say.
Well, I happen to disagree. The number of disgruntled people like you in this thread is not hugely superior to the number of people that supported me. You just happen to post more because you are afraid of something, it seems.
And even if you were right, if I am not bothered by my position why should you? Do you care for me so much that you want to protect me from rejection? That is touching, but really, you can use your time for more productive tasks.
On the other hand, if you want to discuss about the topic of this thread instead of my popularity, I am more than happy to oblige.
If I am correct, you object to the CSM being a figurehead and nothing more?
CCP doesn't have to have a CSM, but they did it. Sorry it doesn't live up to your oh, so high, expectations.
As for naming and shaming those involved? CCP has said they won't, and they have said their dealing with it.
You can either trust them to do their job or not. But if not, there is a very simple answer for you. Leave.
Yes, I'm familiar with T20, and all that other ****. My point still stands. |
|
Daemonspirit
Minmatar Redhawk Tribal Trust
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 20:22:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 15/12/2008 22:27:48 What this last meeting proved is that the CSM requests may be completely ignored by CCP even if they are supported by the vast majority of the community.
Yes, they can be. CCP is a business, and as such can pretty much do whatever they want with their virtual stuff. vOv
Originally by: Etho Demerzel The disclosure of the banned accounts and associated alliances was a strong and almost unanimous request from the community, as made obvious by the motion in this same page. Even so CCP refused to comply, justifying with their policy to protect user privacy.
which they are under no obligation to do, at all, by any stretch of the imagination. If you don't like their answer..... --------------->|door
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Well, the explanation is as absurd as the fact. It is a very different thing to announce PLAYER names and character names. Announcing <edit>character</edit> names in no way violates user privacy, even because it is done all the time when such chars win prizes, for example. God, even PLAYER names are disclosed all the time, as in the CSM ellection.
So, in conclusion, CCP not only failed to comply with a request of 95% of its player base, it also invented lame excuses to justify it.
They gave as much information as they were willing to give. Matters not how may people request/demand to know ... And they gave the answer they wanted to give.. You are not entitled to anything more than what they are willing to give you... Regardless of any other input...
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
So I ask, why even bother with the CSM, if when the situation for which the CSM was created comes they can do nothing about it and are just ignored. The CSM members should just mass resign and deny this facade to CCP.
Ummmm, Internal Affairs was created @ CCP - you didn't hear?
CSM was created for a different purpose. Sorry that is so much beyond you. |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 20:45:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 18/12/2008 20:46:55
Originally by: Daemonspirit
If I am correct, you object to the CSM being a figurehead and nothing more?
CCP doesn't have to have a CSM, but they did it. Sorry it doesn't live up to your oh, so high, expectations.
You are incorect. I object to the CSM existence if it is only a figurehead. It is against the player's interests to have a figure head council. It only serves to CCP own interests as a PR stunt.
Quote:
As for naming and shaming those involved? CCP has said they won't, and they have said their dealing with it.
You can either trust them to do their job or not. But if not, there is a very simple answer for you. Leave.
Yes, I'm familiar with T20, and all that other ****. My point still stands.
Sorry, but you are late. Love it or leave it is a fallacy. If you want to know why read my posts above. It is highly adviseable to read what a person wrote before you start to argue with him about it...
Quote: Ummmm, Internal Affairs was created @ CCP - you didn't hear?
Internal affairs are a damage control tool. You can't trust an institution to police itself.
Quote: CSM was created for a different purpose. Sorry that is so much beyond you.
And such purpose would be? I am really curious about your answer...
=====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 21:02:00 -
[133]
OP exaggerates and has silly overblown expectations that lead to frustration when not fullfilled.
No. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
|
Liu
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 21:08:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Apertotes tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf
|
Manakid Tetsu
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 22:01:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Internal affairs are a damage control tool. You can't trust an institution to police itself.
This exploit was a player exploit, obviously you cant trust players to police themselves either. CSM was created to be a part of the interface between players and CCP and to bring player ideas and concerns to CCP, this does not mean that they were given oversight on CCP decisions. CCP has every right to decide what information to give out, and although we pay a monthly subscription fee to use their services, we are not shareholders of CCP. No matter how much you want to believe that you have a right to the information, Customers in most situations dont get information like you are asking for.
As for giving out full information on the exploit, to what end, so that other players have more information to try and find another exploit along the same lines. |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 22:09:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 18/12/2008 22:09:45
Originally by: Manakid Tetsu
This exploit was a player exploit, obviously you cant trust players to police themselves either. CSM was created to be a part of the interface between players and CCP and to bring player ideas and concerns to CCP, this does not mean that they were given oversight on CCP decisions. CCP has every right to decide what information to give out, and although we pay a monthly subscription fee to use their services, we are not shareholders of CCP. No matter how much you want to believe that you have a right to the information, Customers in most situations dont get information like you are asking for.
As for giving out full information on the exploit, to what end, so that other players have more information to try and find another exploit along the same lines.
Players are not an uniform group. Among players there are several groups with diametrally opposed interests, making them ideal to find irregularities, because those irregularities will be always against at least the interests of one of those groups.
CCP is a company, an uniform group, it has one and only one interest, maximize its profits. And in the absence of pressure against it damage control is the optimum way to do it. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 00:48:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Santiago Fahahrri on 19/12/2008 00:51:24 Big "No" to this proposal.
Based on what I have read in this thread, you can list me as a default "no" for any future proposals by Etho. I'll speak up if there any future exceptions to the default "no".
Etho - please don't forget to count my "No" vote in any future vote-counting endeavors. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 00:51:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Haakelen
You are incorrect. The OP of that thread said nothing of the sort. It was a call for transparency on the subject. I supported the proposal on the grounds of transparency on the exploit, not for a pitchfork-waving crusade, and I can assume others did, too.
I agree with Haakelen here. CCP is a private company and they can do as they wish. If we choose not to like something the most powerfull thing you can do is leave.
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
≡v≡ |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 00:57:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
I agree with Haakelen here. CCP is a private company and they can do as they wish. If we choose not to like something the most powerfull thing you can do is leave.
Slade
Leaving is not the most powerful thing one can do and certainly not the only one. That much I can assure you. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 00:58:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Leaving is not the most powerful thing one can do and certainly not the only one. That much I can assure you.
Sure what then?
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
≡v≡ |
|
Rutger Centemus
Joint Empire Squad
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 01:43:00 -
[141]
No to pitchforks
Originally by: Crumplecorn I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
|
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 02:57:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Sure what then?
Slade
I am not going to repeat myself. Read my posts in this thread and you may realize it. If you don't, oh well, your loss... =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Top Trader
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 04:24:00 -
[143]
CSM is a joke.
|
Kjellerup
Minmatar The Qing Dynasty Lux Caelestia
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 10:07:00 -
[144]
No
--------------------------- Empyreum Recruitment
|
Dionisius
Vagabundos
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 11:55:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Dionisius on 19/12/2008 11:59:33 Yep agreed, CCP should disclose all of whats been happening , who didi it, who is associated with these people and what have they done to prevent that something like this will never happen again.
Again its like i said once , the CSM business is a whole circus of figures fighting for notoriety ( lol! ) and the their own interests in the game, they have brought nothing good and new to the game or the the comunity and have served as CCP's shield from the players, this case just shows it.
CCP's statement that disclosing a nickname is a privacy violation is about the most dumb thing i have ever read, for that matter you wouldn't disclose player names on reports, on tournaments, on internet blogs and websites doing publicity for the game.
Further it shows that CCP has no measure of control over its GTC system, it has no respect for the people that pay the game to play by allowing this farse to continue. _____________________________________
|
Rutger Centemus
Joint Empire Squad
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 12:28:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
I am not going to repeat myself. Read my posts in this thread and you may realize it. If you don't, oh well, your loss...
Wish that were true - you've been repeating yourself for days.
Oh well.
Originally by: Crumplecorn I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
|
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 16:56:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Rutger Centemus
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
I am not going to repeat myself. Read my posts in this thread and you may realize it. If you don't, oh well, your loss...
Wish that were true - you've been repeating yourself for days.
Oh well.
It that is true, at least I can pledge that I have been doing it a lot less than people like you, who insist in making the same arguments time and again without even reading the posts that came before yours. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Anne Archer
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 17:29:00 -
[148]
Yes they should
|
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 17:32:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Squirrrel on 19/12/2008 17:33:10
Originally by: The CCP Spin machine
18.12.2008 19:31:39 Virtual Democracy in the News
Government, leadership, economics... these are major topics during these trying times. Nowadays, it's refreshing to see news about a political system that is working well and making productive changes for its community.
"The elected representatives were awesome. The quality of the feedback was extremely good." - CCP's Petur Oskarsson on the CSM Readers of PC World, Washington Post and the BBC News have recently been treated to some articles about "EVE Online's fledgling democracy," the Council of Stellar Management.
Hahahahaha...
|
Liu
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 18:38:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Squirrrel Edited by: Squirrrel on 19/12/2008 17:33:10
Originally by: The CCP Spin machine
18.12.2008 19:31:39 Virtual Democracy in the News
Government, leadership, economics... these are major topics during these trying times. Nowadays, it's refreshing to see news about a political system that is working well and making productive changes for its community.
"The elected representatives were awesome. The quality of the feedback was extremely good." - CCP's Petur Oskarsson on the CSM Readers of PC World, Washington Post and the BBC News have recently been treated to some articles about "EVE Online's fledgling democracy," the Council of Stellar Management.
Hahahahaha...
i find it quite revealing that this piece of news aint directed to a forum thread to discuss
Originally by: Apertotes tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |