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johnny 0ne
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Posted - 2008.12.17 22:56:00 -
[1]
I'm a Caldari looking for a new ship to fly. I want to keep missiles since I have so many points invested in them. I came across the Rook, and it seems that it would be better for combat than the Falcon. So I ask, why do I hear so much about the Falcon, but nothing about the Rook? They look almost identical to me, aside from the Rook not being able to drop a cyno, but I didnt think that would make enough of a difference in most cases to matter.
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Kithaca
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 23:04:00 -
[2]
Falcon has two major things for it: - cyno time duration (5 mins) - cloakable without penalties (ie warping, gate camping, sitting still in a system and annoying baddies etc).
Rook is significantly cheaper and a missile boat and a slightly sturdier tank. But honestly if you're flying a rook, you're better off in a blackbird anyways.
All in all, the Falcon is more 'useful' because you can enter a system, remain cloaked and scout out what or where your targets are and then watch them and tail them as necessary.
The Falcon is much more flexible, gives you a tonne of intel and scouting capabilities that a Rook cannot and it's doing the same primary task - ECM jamming. Racials with a rig or two and 200km+ optimal jamming is a good way to killmail wh*re, be a much needed force-multiplier as well as keep relatively safe in combat (especially now with the speed changes).
It USED to be the Rook enjoyed a 20% strength bonus to ECM, and the Falcon a 10% bonus.
Falcon > Rook
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johnny 0ne
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Posted - 2008.12.17 23:11:00 -
[3]
Thanks for the great reply. I was mostly thinking of using it in solo pvp, but maybe I'd be better off refining my Blackbird skills. I'm not sure I'll ever be in a situation where I'm in a fleet needing a Falcon.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.18 01:18:00 -
[4]
The Falcon is better because of the covert ops cloak. This is true of ALL four recon pairs, the force recons are much better than the combat recons. The only combat recon which is even close to useful is the Curse, and that has a lot more to do with the Pilgrim being broken than the Curse being awesome.
Of course you shouldn't be soloing in either, once you fit the tackle mods and enough tank to handle drone auto-aggro, you don't have enough ECM to be sure of jamming the target long enough to get the kill with your pathetic dps. If you want to solo, get one of the other force recons. -----------
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Beowulf Scheafer
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Posted - 2008.12.18 01:21:00 -
[5]
the falcon has 1 major flaw: it has absolutly no damage at all, so for soloing it is one of the worst ships in eve, me thinks. but as soon as you have anything next to you, it is one of the best out there, my favorite supporter. awesome scout abilities and the strenght to jam multiple targets at once is definately worth using it. try it, its awesome ^^
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Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.12.18 08:58:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Mickey Simon on 18/12/2008 09:00:35 There's a few people who solo in Rook's that I know of.
Essentially:
Rook - Higher DPS - Better tank - Faster
Falcon - Can fit cov ops cloak - Covert cyno and reduced cyno time - Same ECM bonuses as the Rook
As you can see, the falcon is scarier for your enemies when you've got a gang together, but the rook is more viable for solo. At the end of the day though, ECM is a force multiplier, not a solo weapon so you're better off bringing a friend along given that both ships have paper tanks and if you miss a jam you will die quickly if you're within your enemies range. Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
castraitory
Minmatar AND THEN NO YOU
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Posted - 2008.12.18 11:51:00 -
[7]
Edited by: castraitory on 18/12/2008 11:53:44 I think the OP is full of ****.
You want to fly and new ship and came across the rook and falcon? Bull ****.
You to me, just sound like you wanted to make another thread about the falcon so people could whine in it.
Good luck with your new "I Will prtend I dont know nothing about these ships/mods/tactics threads to see if I can become a famous poster."
Ninja Edit. Read the 2 ship descriptions before you make a post asking about the differences. its not that hard to do.
Before I go nerf the falcon/rook range to <100km like the other recons
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Harrent
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.18 15:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: castraitory Edited by: castraitory on 18/12/2008 11:59:53 Edited by: castraitory on 18/12/2008 11:53:44 I think the OP is full of ****.
You want to fly and new ship and came across the rook and falcon? Bull ****.
You to me, just sound like you wanted to make another thread about the falcon so people could whine in it.
Good luck with your new "I Will prtend I dont know nothing about these ships/mods/tactics threads to see if I can become a famous poster." posts.
Ninja Edit. Read the 2 ship descriptions before you make a post asking about the differences. its not that hard to do.
Before I go nerf the falcon/rook range to <100km like the other recons. Im in a bad mood today.
Flame and Troll FTW =----------=
Semper Fi |
johnny 0ne
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Posted - 2008.12.18 15:11:00 -
[9]
thanks for the replies. i was hoping, but i didnt think that an ecm ship would be a viable solo ship, and it seems like i was right. maybe ill go lose a blackbird a few times to convince me to forget about solo ecm
Originally by: castraitory Edited by: castraitory on 18/12/2008 11:59:53 Edited by: castraitory on 18/12/2008 11:53:44 I think the OP is full of ****.
You want to fly and new ship and came across the rook and falcon? Bull ****.
You to me, just sound like you wanted to make another thread about the falcon so people could whine in it.
Good luck with your new "I Will prtend I dont know nothing about these ships/mods/tactics threads to see if I can become a famous poster." posts.
Ninja Edit. Read the 2 ship descriptions before you make a post asking about the differences. its not that hard to do.
Before I go nerf the falcon/rook range to <100km like the other recons. Im in a bad mood today.
think what youd like. im primarily an industry char with almost no pvp experience. im getting tired of missions and mining, and it seems the only thing left is pvp, but i dont want my missile skills to go to waste, wont be in a large corp, and i like the idea of ecm. the reason i asked about the difference is that from the descriptions, the only difference seems to be the falcon's cyno abilities. then i looked at the number of launchers on the top-rated rook fit, and it seemed like something i might be interested in. there are a ton of falcon threads, but all from people that are involved in fleet battles with it, so its assumed that they know the basics of the ships and dont go talk about that, which is what im interested in.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.12.18 15:42:00 -
[10]
Falcon is OP. Rook is balanced. OP >>>> balance. Fly falcon. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
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Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.12.18 15:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: johnny 0ne im primarily an industry char with almost no pvp experience.
If that's the case, you'd better stick with the blackbird then ;) The Rook will do the blackbirds job better, but it's obviously a lot more expensive, and the insurance payout is far less (as is to be expected). Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.12.18 16:20:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin The Falcon is better because of the covert ops cloak. This is true of ALL four recon pairs, the force recons are much better than the combat recons. The only combat recon which is even close to useful is the Curse, and that has a lot more to do with the Pilgrim being broken than the Curse being awesome.
Of course you shouldn't be soloing in either, once you fit the tackle mods and enough tank to handle drone auto-aggro, you don't have enough ECM to be sure of jamming the target long enough to get the kill with your pathetic dps. If you want to solo, get one of the other force recons.
oh really? so...tell me how the pilgrim is better than the curse? Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi". |
deltauk1
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.12.18 21:29:00 -
[13]
If you want to solo in a caldari missle boat try a drake, 7 launchers and you can fit web scram and a reasonable tank (passive). Caldari recons are not for solo unless you want to pop frigs in which case use an inty or af : )
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Seven Ball
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Posted - 2008.12.18 23:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw
Originally by: Merin Ryskin The Falcon is better because of the covert ops cloak. This is true of ALL four recon pairs, the force recons are much better than the combat recons. The only combat recon which is even close to useful is the Curse, and that has a lot more to do with the Pilgrim being broken than the Curse being awesome.
Of course you shouldn't be soloing in either, once you fit the tackle mods and enough tank to handle drone auto-aggro, you don't have enough ECM to be sure of jamming the target long enough to get the kill with your pathetic dps. If you want to solo, get one of the other force recons.
oh really? so...tell me how the pilgrim is better than the curse?
someone needs to train reading to lvl 2...
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Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.12.19 12:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Seven Ball
Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw
Originally by: Merin Ryskin The Falcon is better because of the covert ops cloak. This is true of ALL four recon pairs, the force recons are much better than the combat recons. The only combat recon which is even close to useful is the Curse, and that has a lot more to do with the Pilgrim being broken than the Curse being awesome.
Of course you shouldn't be soloing in either, once you fit the tackle mods and enough tank to handle drone auto-aggro, you don't have enough ECM to be sure of jamming the target long enough to get the kill with your pathetic dps. If you want to solo, get one of the other force recons.
oh really? so...tell me how the pilgrim is better than the curse?
someone needs to train reading to lvl 2...
meh...how often do you bother reading more than the first few words of a Merin post?
Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi". |
Commander Yassir
The Seven Sins
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Posted - 2008.12.19 14:40:00 -
[16]
Wait... so I am not allowed to solo in my pilgrim.... ohh... maaaan....
P.S. I will probably still solo in my Pilgrim even after that awful post... *goes to cry in corner about his Pilgrim* The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. |
Dihania
Gallente SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.12.19 14:56:00 -
[17]
1 word: cloak. so, Falcon is better.
Join "join sniggwaffe" in game. Good Service! |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
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Posted - 2008.12.19 18:48:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 19/12/2008 18:51:27 Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 19/12/2008 18:50:28 About the rook, it happened to me while trying to drive off a falcon in my vaga, a rook dropped on me (he had a point fitted!) and managed to chase me away.
If these things are combat fit they can actually put a bit of pressure on a HAC that has to deal with sentry aggro.
Edit: generally speaking, the rook is as good / better than the falcon in every single attribute, but it cant cloak, so the falcon wins only in survivability.
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Ten Tron
Project Nemesis
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Posted - 2008.12.20 04:06:00 -
[19]
Everyone always says "falcon > rook". Everyone always says "it's a ECM ship, its there to jam, not DPS". That being said, this is why the rook has an advantage. No one expects the rook and the power of it.
The rook does around 200 dps and when you fit it for solo PvP it surprizes people. Most people think the rook is paper thin but if you equip one or two large shield extenders it can tank long enough. Throw tackle on it and it can "attempt" to solo about anyship. I say "attempt" because it can't break every ships tank but you can always get a jam and warp off. It's actually a great tackle ship because it can hold a ship for a couple minutes while your backup warps in. I've got 340 kills with the rook and a quarter of them were solo kills. I prefer the rook over the falcon because I feel naked without tackle equiped. I also like to inflict moderate damage to my targets while they can't target. Don't be surprized when you see rooks as top damage on killmails.
A falcon is great for 0.0 recon. A falcon is great for "surprize I win". The rook is a great combat ship and solo ship. The rook is very well rounded. It can tackle, it can DPS, it can jam. I prefer the rook.
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Threv Echandari
Caldari K Directorate
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Posted - 2008.12.20 15:39:00 -
[20]
Crane vs Monkey CageDeath match III Coming soone to a theare near you..
Rook is good, but its just a BB on Steroids, the CovOps cloak makes the Falcon special.
---------------------------------------- Happiness is a Wet Pod
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Gwendion
Gallente Bladed Moon
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Posted - 2008.12.22 01:29:00 -
[21]
Replying to above: The only really viable solo ecm ship is the Widow. Its also pretty. And also a pain to fly if you dont know what your doing =) -----------------------------------
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Beltantis Torrence
Steel Soldier's NEXUS ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2008.12.22 03:54:00 -
[22]
Rook is also the best anti-ECM ship you can fly.
[Rook, Anti-ECM Rook] Signal Distortion Amplifier II Signal Distortion Amplifier II Gravimetric Backup Array II
ECCM - Gravimetric II Sensor Booster II ECCM - Gravimetric II ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Particle Dispersion Projector I Particle Dispersion Projector I
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Guru
Woopatang
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Posted - 2008.12.22 05:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ten Tron Edited by: Ten Tron on 20/12/2008 04:25:40 Everyone always says "falcon > rook". Everyone always says "it's a ECM ship, its there to jam, not DPS". That being said, this is why the rook has an advantage. No one expects the rook and the power of it.
The rook does around 200 dps and when you fit it for solo PvP it surprizes people. Most people think the rook is paper thin but if you equip one or two large shield extenders it can tank long enough. Throw tackle on it and it can "attempt" to solo about anyship. I say "attempt" because it can't break every ships tank but you can always get a jam and warp off. It's actually a great tackle ship because it can hold a ship for a couple minutes while your backup warps in. I've got 340 kills with the rook and a quarter of them were solo kills. I prefer the rook over the falcon because I feel naked without tackle equiped. I also like to inflict moderate damage to my enemies while they can't target. Don't be surprized when you see rooks as top damage on killmails.
A falcon is great for 0.0 recon. A falcon is great for "surprize I win". The rook is a great combat ship and solo ship. The rook is very well rounded. It can tackle, it can DPS, it can jam. I prefer the rook.
I also prefer the rook over the falcon. Half the people just say the Falcon is better because thats what they have been told..lol Both are good in there own respect for different reasons and under different circumstances... just like any ship out there. Try both out and make your mind up.
Mind Over Matter: If I dont mind it dont matter.
http://www.eve-woopatang.com |
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.12.22 05:51:00 -
[24]
Rook used to be a good alternative to Falcon as it had slightly stronger jammers
But then CCP, for some unknown and completely illogical reason decided to boost Falcon's jammer strength to be same as Rook. Rook is now obsolete. Any extra damage it has isn't worth the covert ops cloak.
In real PvP, Falcon is all you'll see people use
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Kaltar Bok
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Posted - 2008.12.22 06:49:00 -
[25]
How many people complain about the Falcon - manymany. How many people complain about the rook - none. There`s your answer, people don`t complain about ships that are not overpowered.
Cloaky-warpy jammer? Yes please sir!
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Akira Na'Reece
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.22 08:35:00 -
[26]
I don't know if i've missed something, but im not certain why people would moan about the Falcon. I had a great running skirmish the other day, in low sec we were coming back from a faction plex, and jumped at a gate, I was tailing the fleet, and with my falcon managed to jam a crow, domi and caracal plus at one point either a Jag or a Wolf too (can't remember which), at the same time, and they were perma jammed for the most part, this allowed my fleet through, and for us to engage some of the war targets too. I don't beleive either side lost any ships, but we CERTAINLY would have if we'd not had the Falcon on scene. All in all, i'm extremely happy with it.
"I'm gonna love you, ...and hug you, ...and call you George, ...George. |
Guru
Woopatang
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Posted - 2008.12.23 05:49:00 -
[27]
Quote: In real PvP, Falcon is all you'll see people use
I hate this debate.. but Ill get sucked in because its a pet peeve of mine..lol
Falcon is perfect for camping.. and system defense.. or areas where you have plenty of safe spots in order to "set up".
In my opinion.. the rook is much better for roaming engagements where fights take place on gates or belts or wherever not planned. Most fights take place withing 50km. Also most fights in a roam dont allow for "set up". In fact if you were to "set up" in order to give the Falcon its advantage in the roam, your gang usually would have lost the advantage to begin with as the fight would have been half over by the time you got at range(whichever way you wanted to achieve it).
Rook has greater range, and the ability to buffer tank if needed. It also locks pretty fast. Overall it is a much more versatile ship for a roaming gang. Rook is more bang for the buck. Although the damage is less then many of the ships, it can contribute and jam just as effectively as the falcon and contribute something to the damage department.
The falcon is a great ship that shines in its own way for its own reason, as does the rook.. Roaming gangs Rook > Falcon imo. Ability to set up and home defense Falcon > Rook People tend to think the falcon is better because an inexperienced pilot can fly the falcon and not die. Its easier to fly then the rook, and requires less knowledge of engagements, etc.. You have to look at the practicality and overall usefullness.. what you gain.. what you lose.. etc.. depending on the situation.
Mind Over Matter: If I dont mind it dont matter.
http://www.eve-woopatang.com |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.24 17:01:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kaltar Bok people don`t complain about ships that are not overpowered.
Quoting this for mockery -----------
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