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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
593
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Posted - 2012.04.13 13:28:00 -
[61] - Quote
Post fixed to include mention of the implant.
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EFF ONEF1
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.04.13 13:38:00 -
[62] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:EFF ONEF1 wrote:EFT is telling me with all skills at 5 this thing is over 2 pg. might be wrong Could be, but there are other fits which do go up to around 25k eHP. Technically is it enough to withstand a gank by a destroyer. It does however destroy the diversity of fits when all slots of a ship need to be used to fit a tank. Usually only the mid- or the high-slots should be needed. This is not the case any more.
Oh no i get you, i was just pointing out the fit and EFT.
If its enough to tank a dessy, they will bring more or bring bigger. There is really no way to fit yourself out of a gank is people want it to happen. The odd solo guy, sure.
im on the fence about the whole issue anyways.
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Whitehound
42
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Posted - 2012.04.13 13:58:00 -
[63] - Quote
EFF ONEF1 wrote:im on the fence about the whole issue anyways. I hate the idea of mining and industrial ships needing to be the designated victims in a PvP game and I welcome those Hulk threads. I hate sitting in a mining ship and I only do it once every two weeks with friends in a fleet.
I have yet to see a good argument on how an increased tank, more speed or agility on all mining ships affects the game's balance. |
Ira Infernus
Praetorium Illegitimus The.Alliance
14
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:EFF ONEF1 wrote:im on the fence about the whole issue anyways. I hate the idea of mining and industrial ships needing to be the designated victims in a PvP game and I welcome those Hulk threads. I hate sitting in a mining ship and I only do it once every two weeks with friends in a fleet. I have yet to see a good argument on how an increased tank, more speed or agility on all mining ships affects the game's balance.
I agree. The Industrials should not be made more tanky. There is a payoff; without the gankers in high sec, mining becomes a risk free endevaur. If the miners want a fairly risk free environment, they should do it in a rokh or a dominix, at least this way they are likely to get into a battleship at some point and perhaps try some level of combat. |
Ildryn
The Inf1dels GIANTSBANE.
41
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:58:00 -
[65] - Quote
This whine has been around for years. Tank your hulk or fly something else. The only person who gives a **** if you have a scanner is you. Mission runners don't know exactly what salvage/loot they are going to get by shooting at a ship. Hulks were meant for 0.0 roid reaping. Not immunity in highsec money making. Get into a covetor to keep your losses low or get in a battleship.
/thread |
Whitehound
46
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Posted - 2012.04.13 15:12:00 -
[66] - Quote
Ira Infernus wrote:I agree. The Industrials should not be made more tanky. There is a payoff; without the gankers in high sec, mining becomes a risk free endevaur. If the miners want a fairly risk free environment, they should do it in a rokh or a dominix, at least this way they are likely to get into a battleship at some point and perhaps try some level of combat. High-sec is not risk free. If one wants a fight then one can declare war or flip a can. Gankers simply operate at the border of what is allowed. I do not want to go there for an argument just to say what kind of a tank it needs, because one can gank anything. How would you come up with a number there? How could you use it to do the opposite and decrease a ship's tank? I find it hard to base any decisions on this alone. As long as mining ships do not pose a threat to other ships then they can have any size of tank. Too much tank on a Hulk can mean that it becomes a competitor to a T2 hauler. So there is a first, reasonable upper limit.
What else is there? |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
78
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Posted - 2012.04.13 16:27:00 -
[67] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:EFF ONEF1 wrote:EFT is telling me with all skills at 5 this thing is over 2 pg. might be wrong It does however destroy the diversity of fits when all slots of a ship need to be used to fit a tank. Usually only the mid- or the high-slots should be needed. This is not the case any more. Usually only the mid- or the high-slots should be needed when all slots of a ship need to be used to fit a tank or the high-slots fit a tank high-slotstank Just stop posting |
Fnedgar Winter
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.04.13 17:21:00 -
[68] - Quote
TheBlueMonkey wrote:if you mined in a group, in an area of space where you had good intel, you wouldn't have these issues.
Wow... Its that simple? Great. I'll get this all set up before tomorrow.
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Whitehound
49
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Posted - 2012.04.13 17:28:00 -
[69] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Just stop posting Lead the way, troll. |
Mythra
La Mortis
0
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Posted - 2012.04.13 20:55:00 -
[70] - Quote
Here is how you tank a mining Rokh with included orca stats are: 223k ehp 83.9 em 79.2 therm 84.4 kin 87 exp 1806 yield with 5% highwall implant without orca: 187k ehp 83.4 em 77.5 them 83.1 kin 85.9 exp 1404 yield with 5% highwall implant [Rokh, mining] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II Co-Processor II Co-Processor II Damage Control II
EM Ward Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Mining Drone II x5
Tanked Orca 226k ehp 78.6 em 72.4 therm 79.3 kin 82.7 exp [Orca, New Setup 1] Capacitor Power Relay II Damage Control II
EM Ward Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization II Mining Foreman Link - Mining Laser Field Enhancement II
Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Core Defense Field Extender I
These fits will put you comfortably into the freighter ehp zone if not over and thus greatly increasing the cost and effort to gank you. Now to truely be as gank resistant as possible you need to borrow or steal this from Chribba: [Revelation, Veldnaught] Damage Control II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Energized Armor Layering Membrane II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Siege Module II
Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II |
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corpalt
Alternative solution inc
2
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Posted - 2012.04.13 21:29:00 -
[71] - Quote
mines 1177 m3/m Stats: 33,776 EHP Resists: 71.7 % EM, 85.8% Thermal, 83% Kinetic, 84% Explosive.
[Hulk, Tanked] Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
mines 1354 with included orca stats are: 223k ehp 83.9 em 79.2 therm 84.4 kin 87 exp 1806 yield with 5% highwall implant without orca: 187k ehp 83.4 em 77.5 them 83.1 kin 85.9 exp 1404 yield with 5% highwall implant [Rokh, mining] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II Co-Processor II Co-Processor II Damage Control II
EM Ward Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Core Defense Field Extender I
why are we still using hulks at all when only full fail tank fit hulk can out mine a huge tanked rokh a "combat" battleship (plus the rokh is insurable ) |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
599
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Posted - 2012.04.13 21:37:00 -
[72] - Quote
corpalt wrote: why are we still using hulks at all when only full fail tank fit hulk can out mine a huge tanked rokh a "combat" battleship (plus the rokh is insurable )
A wild guess might be the massive cargo space of a hulk, not requiring an orca to be present all the time to drop off it's ore. Stuff in EFT is not the same as real stuff in game (TM)
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corpalt
Alternative solution inc
2
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Posted - 2012.04.13 21:40:00 -
[73] - Quote
because a jetcan is so hard? i still use it over the orca hold |
Whitehound
53
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Posted - 2012.04.13 21:42:00 -
[74] - Quote
corpalt wrote:because a jetcan is so hard? i still use it over the orca hold Which system? |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
59
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Posted - 2012.04.13 22:09:00 -
[75] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You can do this, but I'd prefer having the higher thermal resists to stem blaster volleys myself. Quote:[Hulk, Tanked] Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Rock-Scanning Sensor Array I Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I IMO Danny John-Peter's recommendation is crap because it requires either an Orca or can mining. The Hulk can at least stand alone as a decent mining ship pulling ore.
Cause like, having an Iteron V or Mammoth to haul ore is.... well actually you aren't doing that with a Hulk? Just warping back every time you are full?
Seriously? |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
59
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Posted - 2012.04.13 22:10:00 -
[76] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Since PVP knowledge alludes most miners (and greed seems to permeate all of you more then sensibility) I have elected to post a decent "Hulk Fit" for this age of EVE's evolution. ATM, do to hulkageddon, Minmatar's stupid high alpha and a blaster buff, everything is dieing in record numbers. Empire is no longer just "Not Safe" there are gankers online 23/7 in every market hub, and they will scan every ship and every shuttle as they fly by. If your mining in a hulk, unless you are in a deep dark system somewhere... some ganker is pretty much on his way. So... Here is what a PVP guy has learned about mining in a fairly short amount of time. The Tanked Hulk (that you should all be flying now)(Requires a Engineering EG-604 implant) Stats: 33,776 EHP Resists: 71.7 % EM, 85.8% Thermal, 83% Kinetic, 84% Explosive. [Hulk, Tanked] Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Commentary On BuildThe resists in the Kin, Therm and explosive range is key. +80% puts this build's resistance right up there with a mission drake, only with 1/2 the EHP. That means ALLOT when you're taking volley hits before concord shows up. Trust me. Your yield is 1,695with Orca bonus, and 1,209 without. So minus two mining laser upgrades, you are losing only 200 per cycle without an orca, and 300 with one. Now if you do the math, yes that sucks a little bit... but the ISK you and your corporation saves in Hulks will equal itself out in the end. As it turns out, you can do the same thing with Tech I Industrial ships as well. This version is an Iteron Mark V. Its resists are 75.9, 77.2, 72.8, 77.4. It has 26,724 EHP and a passive regen of 114 It can also still carry 15,545 M3's which is more then enough for most practical purposes. [Iteron Mark V, Tank] Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Truth be told, ganking in Empire may be getting out of hand when Jita becomes a practical no fly zone for freighters, industrials and ore ships. But that does not mean that you have to fly glass ships and except being fodder for the masses. There is a big diff between two idiots tearing you down with little not no effort while you're on auto pilot, and it requiring a small, coordinated fleet to do the same thing. You have been notified.
4 Catalysts will kill it in most cases.
One person could do this with four accounts, though I admit that is a little bit to many accounts for most players.
Two guys with more than one account each gank it long time. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
171
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Posted - 2012.04.13 22:26:00 -
[77] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote: Commentary On Build
The resists in the Kin, Therm and explosive range is key. +80% puts this build's resistance right up there with a mission drake, only with 1/2 the EHP. That means ALLOT when you're taking volley hits before concord shows up. Trust me. Your yield is 1,695with Orca bonus, and 1,209 without. So minus two mining laser upgrades, you are losing only 200 per cycle without an orca, and 300 with one. Now if you do the math, yes that sucks a little bit... but the ISK you and your corporation saves in Hulks will equal itself out in the end.
Losing around 10% yield is for most carebear miners unacceptable. Seriously, they are the worst min-maxers possible. Why do you think mining implants are among the most expensive implants in the game?
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
599
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Posted - 2012.04.13 22:45:00 -
[78] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
4 Catalysts will kill it in most cases.
No one said otherwise. Needing 4 however is a bit different then needing only one.
Tobiaz wrote: Losing around 10% yield is for most carebear miners unacceptable. Seriously, they are the worst min-maxers possible. Why do you think mining implants are among the most expensive implants in the game?
I know. Alliance leadership taught me that miners are among the most cut throat, greedy little ***** in the game. But it does not mean that a tanked hulk is not the better way to go at this juncture of eve's development.
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Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
599
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Posted - 2012.04.13 22:51:00 -
[79] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote: IMO Danny John-Peter's recommendation is crap because it requires either an Orca or can mining. The Hulk can at least stand alone as a decent mining ship pulling ore.
Cause like, having an Iteron V or Mammoth to haul ore is.... well actually you aren't doing that with a Hulk? Just warping back every time you are full?
Seriously?
There is a difference between being totally at keyboard, totally AFK and mostly at Keyboard. A 8,000 M3 cargo hold allows miners to be mostly at keyboard, not forcing them to click, drag and drop as constantly and robotically. The three minute cycle rate also helps provide a more casual mining experience.
I don't mine, and yet I can appreciate this fact. So what is your malfunction, bra?
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Whitehound
54
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Posted - 2012.04.13 23:07:00 -
[80] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I don't mine, and yet I can appreciate this fact. Which means you lack the experience.
EFT warrior is EFT warrior. |
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Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
599
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Posted - 2012.04.13 23:37:00 -
[81] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I don't mine, and yet I can appreciate this fact. Which means you lack the experience. EFT warrior is EFT warrior.
And yet I have significant experience tanking and breaking tanks, which is what this OP was about.
From henceforth the Whitehound toon will always be the white bearded senile man of of Eve online forums, in my eyes. You really left an impression today
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Katalci
Creative Cookie Procuring Veto Corp
51
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Posted - 2012.04.15 00:02:00 -
[82] - Quote
guys if I fit a brick tank I lose the ability to do other things this is unbalanced |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
604
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Posted - 2012.04.15 00:07:00 -
[83] - Quote
Katalci wrote:guys if I fit a brick tank I lose the ability to do other things this is unbalanced
Not really, because if I fit a brick tank I lose the ability to do other things too. Be it in a mission room or in PVP. Alternatively, if I fit to little tank I am just as ineffective in the performance of those same tasks. Eve is about give and take, and evidently, so is mining.
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Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
145
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Posted - 2012.04.15 02:11:00 -
[84] - Quote
July Oumis wrote:When ther's more than one ship mentioned, some ppl think of alts. I may remind you, that we play an MMO game. And I may remind you, that noone will ever be willing to sit around for hours doing nothing.
Forming a fleet to protect miners or haul for miners without earning ISK (or FAR less then when flying level 2 missions) is a nice dream. But not more. Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship! |
Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
99
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Posted - 2012.04.15 06:44:00 -
[85] - Quote
Ira Infernus wrote:Whitehound wrote:EFF ONEF1 wrote:im on the fence about the whole issue anyways. I hate the idea of mining and industrial ships needing to be the designated victims in a PvP game and I welcome those Hulk threads. I hate sitting in a mining ship and I only do it once every two weeks with friends in a fleet. I have yet to see a good argument on how an increased tank, more speed or agility on all mining ships affects the game's balance. I agree. The Industrials should not be made more tanky. There is a payoff; without the gankers in high sec, mining becomes a risk free endevaur. If the miners want a fairly risk free environment, they should do it in a rokh or a dominix, at least this way they are likely to get into a battleship at some point and perhaps try some level of combat.
And my AFK-domi running lvl 4's isn't risk free or incursions with a proper fleet ? Are we playing the same game here ? You do realize that you need millions (8) of units of veld for just one battleship. It's not like your going mine it in an hour by your self and that itty with 15k cargo oh really, Gee I can almost squeeze in all the ore for single BS in that thing oh my how lucky I am ?
This is a sandbox and if someone likes sitting at the belt for hours then they should be allowed to do it, also bear in mid that mining does not bring any isk to the economy what so ever bounties made by you so called HC-PvP types however do.
But what you all fear is that the ISK you lose in ganks just pads in the pockets of the miners in the end, don't you ? |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
612
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Posted - 2012.04.15 14:43:00 -
[86] - Quote
Baneken wrote:This is a sandbox and if someone likes sitting at the belt for hours then they should be allowed to do it
I don't think anyone here has said otherwise, have they? This thread is merely advocating a tank while you do it.
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baltec1
1093
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Posted - 2012.04.15 16:50:00 -
[87] - Quote
If people put even a 15k tank on their stuff BATs would not have been able to do a month long interdiction of caladri space and kill 707 exhumers. |
Devil tiger
1
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Posted - 2012.04.15 22:01:00 -
[88] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:If people put even a 15k tank on their stuff BATs would not have been able to do a month long interdiction of caladri space and kill 707 exhumers.
Hah even a 150k tank on them wouldn't have been enough with the numbers the gankers can bring.
If they can suicide tank a Freighter in Jita they most assuredly can do so to Hulks. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
418
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Posted - 2012.04.15 22:42:00 -
[89] - Quote
Devil tiger wrote:baltec1 wrote:If people put even a 15k tank on their stuff BATs would not have been able to do a month long interdiction of caladri space and kill 707 exhumers. Hah even a 150k tank on them wouldn't have been enough with the numbers the gankers can bring. If they can suicide tank a Freighter in Jita they most assuredly can do so to Hulks. Yeah, vote for invulnerability and for decshielding every day. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
baltec1
1098
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 08:53:00 -
[90] - Quote
Devil tiger wrote:
Hah even a 150k tank on them wouldn't have been enough with the numbers the gankers can bring.
If they can suicide tank a Freighter in Jita they most assuredly can do so to Hulks.
In order to kill all of those ships we had to at least break even on every kill. If we had to use a tornado on every ship we would have run out of isk before we hit 100. The vast bulk get killed by destroyers, the nados only come out for special events. The one and only reason so many hulks die is because people fail to put even the most basic of tanks on their ship. |
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