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Jessica Sweetwater
Dark Eternity.
2
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi
Now i am not posting this on a *rant* but i am posting this on a *protest* level.
You have created a system where another player can effectivley demand everything about your account just short of your password.
I recently recruited a fellow who was turned by 9 other corps because he refused to show his wallet and his ingame mail.
9 corporations and 6 of them were not even big.
CCP why did you create the API? You have created a culture of paranoid behaviour within the game itself
Why should players have to show people everything on there accounts?
Is everyone a spy to you Mr Recruiters? Is everyone out to get your corp Mr recruiters?
Get rid of the API system it is downright stupid
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Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
234
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Not as stupid as this post. Working as intended. |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
467
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
With how prevalent spying is in Eve and how damaging it can be. Yes everyone is considered a spy until they can show otherwise. Though corps asking for full API seems a bit over the top. |
Prince Kobol
536
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Its not the API that is the problem, it is the god awful Corp Management / permissions which is the problem |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1509
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Why remove API? If you don't want to give your information, don't. Simple as that. I have spoken with several corp and alliance leaders that always demand my API info. They can demand all they want...they ain't getting it if I don't want them to have it.
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Xuse Senna
Saiph Industries SRS.
161
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
I don't mind the APIs but I wouldn't give up my wallet either. everything else is no big deal. D3 |
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
136
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
The wallet journal reveals a lot that is important to avoid griefers and spies. It all comes down to undeclared alts, and the wallet journal is one of the few ways to try and spot them. The skill sheet speaks for itself, and is essential to judge if a player is adequate for what you are trying to achieve as a corp and what they might need to work on.
Frankly, if somebody is serious about joining a corp, they should be totally cool with being open about their character. Caldari focused fleet PvP
Join us for 100% Caldari fleets in Faction Warfare and small fleet PvP
www.thedeadrabbitsociety.com/recruitment |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
262
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Are you still hiring? |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
148
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Seeing when to change my skill, my various industry jobs, contracts and market orders offline outweighs your entire argument.
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Jessica Sweetwater
Dark Eternity.
2
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Patient 2428190 wrote:Seeing when to change my skill, my various industry jobs, contracts and market orders offline outweighs your entire argument.
why should they demand that from u?
why should they read my ingame mail? for instance i use alot of it because our corp is rl mates for work info, stuff we send to each other
They have no right to demand to know how much isk i have or whats in my mails |
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Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
467
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jessica Sweetwater wrote:Patient 2428190 wrote:Seeing when to change my skill, my various industry jobs, contracts and market orders offline outweighs your entire argument.
why should they demand that from u? why should they read my ingame mail? for instance i use alot of it because our corp is rl mates for work info, stuff we send to each other They have no right to demand to know how much isk i have or whats in my mails
Hes saying that with the API it makes it possible for HIM to see that stuff offline. Not people asking for it.
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Jessica Sweetwater
Dark Eternity.
2
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Jessica Sweetwater wrote:Patient 2428190 wrote:Seeing when to change my skill, my various industry jobs, contracts and market orders offline outweighs your entire argument.
why should they demand that from u? why should they read my ingame mail? for instance i use alot of it because our corp is rl mates for work info, stuff we send to each other They have no right to demand to know how much isk i have or whats in my mails Hes saying that with the API it makes it possible for HIM to see that stuff offline. Not people asking for it.
Ill give you a for instance, i recently send a mail to demon confirming my banking details along with his new week work schedule.
Say i leave this corp n try to join another. Even if i delete that mail the recruiter can still see that, my acocunt is instantly comprimised
Why should i agree to him reading that because he is paranoid |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1509
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
The whole process of demanding an API to counter spies is stupid at best. I have several accounts. You wouldn't know that unless I told you.
"Yessir. One account. No spies here...these are all my alts.". EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
467
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 14:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jessica Sweetwater wrote:
Ill give you a for instance, i recently send a mail to demon confirming my banking details along with his new week work schedule.
Say i leave this corp n try to join another. Even if i delete that mail the recruiter can still see that, my acocunt is instantly comprimised
Why should i agree to him reading that because he is paranoid
Then don't join that corp? Unless things have changed since I left, rarely do corporations ask for your full API. If you don't want to give out your info then don't, however there are more benefits to the API system as stated earlier that negates peoples paranoia. |
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression
127
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 14:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jessica Sweetwater wrote:
Ill give you a for instance, i recently send a mail to demon confirming my banking details along with his new week work schedule.
Say i leave this corp n try to join another. Even if i delete that mail the recruiter can still see that, my acocunt is instantly comprimised
Why should i agree to him reading that because he is paranoid
People have gmail accounts for a reason |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
780
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 15:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jessica Sweetwater wrote: Ill give you a for instance, i recently send a mail to demon confirming my banking details along with his new week work schedule.
Say i leave this corp n try to join another. Even if i delete that mail the recruiter can still see that, my acocunt is instantly comprimised
Why should i agree to him reading that because he is paranoid
Why the hell would you use in-game communications to do that? Real e-mail is far more secure, and comes with the peace of mind that nobody will randomly read your emails (like CCP or corp recruiters).
As a corp recruiter (and CEO) maybe I can give you some insight. Planting a spy is one of the most damaging things an enemy could do to a corp. The presence of the spy undermines how much you can trust all corp members, potentially compromises corp ops, ships parked in POSes are no longer safe, etc. Despite all that, a spy is very easy to plant.
The only way to detect spies is via proactive analysis of various aspects of all new recruits' characters. Back before the API, this was done via requesting a screenshot of the login screen, showing all 3 characters of the recruit. However, this was easily fake-able. Once the API appeared, more options opened up: getting confirmed names of the two other characters on the same account, being able to see the skills of all those characters (and thereby being able to identify if the one joining your corp is a main or an alt).
For same-account spy alts, this is good enough. But what about if the spy is on another account? That's when recruiters start grasping for straws. Maybe the spy received ISK or assets from a questionable source, better check his wallet history, contract history, market orders, assets, etc. Maybe he received a mail from his conspirators in a hostile entity. Better check his mails. Even with all this, it is not possible to be completely sure you're not recruiting a spy.
There is a "better safe than sorry" attitude about recruitment, especially when large assets are involved, or in corps where members get a lot of trust put into them. Of course, there are recruiters who exaggerate and ask for all this info when all their corp does is jerk around in mining barges as well. This is when you, as a recruit, need to use your judgment. Is the corp justified in asking as much information as they are? If you don't think so, then speak up to the recruiter, or even to his CEO.
Complaining on the forums solves nothing, though. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
205
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Posted - 2012.04.13 15:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jessica Sweetwater wrote:
Ill give you a for instance, i recently send a mail to demon confirming my banking details along with his new week work schedule.
Say i leave this corp n try to join another. Even if i delete that mail the recruiter can still see that, my acocunt is instantly comprimised
Why should i agree to him reading that because he is paranoid
So what you are saying is that if your account were to ever be hacked, you would be royally ****** because you spread your bank account details over any old system of communication. I agree, I like your system much more. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
3096
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Posted - 2012.04.13 15:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Your fellow there mad bc he cannot fake his info any longer? The API is one of the best things CCP created imo, being able to use things like EVEmon and EFT without spending hours keeping it up to date with what skills I have.
And if someone is demanding to see like your wallet, maybe that isn't the right corp to start with. To ask for skills is one thing as it probably helps the corp to plan OPs and stuff, but as far as wallet goes that generally doesn't give anyone much.
/c
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Jessica Sweetwater
Dark Eternity.
2
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Posted - 2012.04.13 15:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote:Jessica Sweetwater wrote:
Ill give you a for instance, i recently send a mail to demon confirming my banking details along with his new week work schedule.
Say i leave this corp n try to join another. Even if i delete that mail the recruiter can still see that, my acocunt is instantly comprimised
Why should i agree to him reading that because he is paranoid
So what you are saying is that if your account were to ever be hacked, you would be royally ****** because you spread your bank account details over any old system of communication. I agree, I like your system much more.
I did it once n deleted the mail straighter after as he did as evegate was all my iphone would let me use :P
But its just a for instance. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
459
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 15:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jessica Sweetwater wrote:Hi
Now i am not posting this on a *rant* but i am posting this on a *protest* level.
You have created a system where another player can effectivley demand everything about your account just short of your password.
I recently recruited a fellow who was turned by 9 other corps because he refused to show his wallet and his ingame mail.
9 corporations and 6 of them were not even big.
CCP why did you create the API? You have created a culture of paranoid behaviour within the game itself
Why should players have to show people everything on there accounts?
Is everyone a spy to you Mr Recruiters? Is everyone out to get your corp Mr recruiters?
Get rid of the API system it is downright stupid or at least bloody mod it
Of course everyone is out to get you.
Lets say in real life, I build a company over the course of several thousand hours (2060 work hours in a year). I hire people off the street with no ID. That makes me a moron.
So when applied to the virtual world all that real world time I invested in the game is worthless? I don't think so.
Whats really awesome however is a character dedicated to being a spy can pass the API check. I AM ******* PISSED OFF THAT EVE WILL NOT RUN ON MY COMMODORE 64. **** THAT **** I QUIT. take all my isk for 1 trit. |
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THE L0CK
Denying You Access
205
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Posted - 2012.04.13 15:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jessica Sweetwater wrote:THE L0CK wrote:Jessica Sweetwater wrote:
Ill give you a for instance, i recently send a mail to demon confirming my banking details along with his new week work schedule.
Say i leave this corp n try to join another. Even if i delete that mail the recruiter can still see that, my acocunt is instantly comprimised
Why should i agree to him reading that because he is paranoid
So what you are saying is that if your account were to ever be hacked, you would be royally ****** because you spread your bank account details over any old system of communication. I agree, I like your system much more. I did it once n deleted the mail straighter after as he did as evegate was all my iphone would let me use :P But its just a for instance.
What the hell did you do to your iphone to make it only give you access to one app? I mean even the most basic Mail App that comes on the phone functions that same way as outlook. And you can't tell me it was connection issues because if you can connect through evegate you can connect through anything else. Something is telling me that you and technology really aren't a good match. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
87
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Posted - 2012.04.13 15:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Provide corps with API or don't. The choice is yours
Removing the API removes choice.
0/10 On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun |
Grumpymunky
Super Monkey Tribe of Danger
91
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Posted - 2012.04.13 15:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Chribba wrote:but as far as wallet goes that generally doesn't give anyone much. Except showing the ISK your main sent to your newly made spy alt for skillbooks and plexes and all that stuff you don't want potential recruiters to know about. Post with your monkey. |
Marcus Ichiro
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.04.13 15:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Who else thinks that a few weeks from now OP will be posting a thread complaining about corp thieves and how there's nothing to stop them? |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
459
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Posted - 2012.04.13 15:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Grumpymunky wrote:Chribba wrote:but as far as wallet goes that generally doesn't give anyone much. Except showing the ISK your main sent to your newly made spy alt for skillbooks and plexes and all that stuff you don't want potential recruiters to know about.
There's ways around that. I AM ******* PISSED OFF THAT EVE WILL NOT RUN ON MY COMMODORE 64. **** THAT **** I QUIT. take all my isk for 1 trit. |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
121
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 15:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
API turned EVE in to the Meta game it is. They can't change it, not now but turn back time, I am sure CCP would be happy to have made EVE without it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg-_HeVNYOk
Save Derpy! |
Mark Androcius
16
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Posted - 2012.04.13 16:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Grumpymunky wrote:Chribba wrote:but as far as wallet goes that generally doesn't give anyone much. Except showing the ISK your main sent to your newly made spy alt for skillbooks and plexes and all that stuff you don't want potential recruiters to know about. There's ways around that.
Indeed, your main buys plex and gives it to the alt, who sells it again, as far as i know, there's no record of past contracts, but then again, i could be wrong. Yes i am dutch, no i don't do drugs. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
996
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 16:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jessica Sweetwater wrote:Hi
Now i am not posting this on a *rant* but i am posting this on a *protest* level.
You have created a system where another player can effectivley demand everything about your account just short of your password.
I recently recruited a fellow who was turned by 9 other corps because he refused to show his wallet and his ingame mail.
9 corporations and 6 of them were not even big.
CCP why did you create the API? You have created a culture of paranoid behaviour within the game itself
Why should players have to show people everything on there accounts?
Is everyone a spy to you Mr Recruiters? Is everyone out to get your corp Mr recruiters?
Get rid of the API system it is downright stupid or at least bloody mod it
There's nothing they can do with that information, unless you have mails in that can compromise your application. Your wallet is meaningless unless you are dumb enough to give it away if one asks you to, he can but you can also say no, right? If any fees or corp participation for rent whatsoever then this part must be visible to all in corp application form and be the same for everyone, else just run away from those.
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Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
115
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Posted - 2012.04.13 17:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
I love api. New api even better. I have nothing to hide for what corps ask for. They can see my wallet, woopie, cannot do anything to it. They can see my mails? Wow, they can see that I still chat with some members of the rp community. Ohnoes.
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masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
160
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Posted - 2012.04.13 17:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Clear spy alt detected.
HTFU. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3332
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Posted - 2012.04.14 01:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ioci wrote:API turned EVE in to the Meta game it is. They can't change it, not now but turn back time, I am sure CCP would be happy to have made EVE without it.
Nonsense. The metagame long predates the API. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
194
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Posted - 2012.04.14 02:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
FYI before the API was around corporations wanted a screen shot of your login page showing your characters.
IT is up to you if you want to give your API away or not
Funny bit is that a API isn't going to protect the corp one little bit. There are to many ways around it .
Like a lock on a door. API's keep honest and people honest and keep to small time criminals in check. However the professionals, it won't stop them for one second.
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Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
662
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Posted - 2012.04.14 03:04:00 -
[33] - Quote
OP: you can delete an API key at any time. So if you leave a corp that wanted your API, you just delete it and BOOM, no more data for them.
API is the most useful thing in EVE. Without it, EVEMon wouldn't exist. |
leviticus ander
CATO.nss
145
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Posted - 2012.04.14 03:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:OP: you can delete an API key at any time. So if you leave a corp that wanted your API, you just delete it and BOOM, no more data for them. API is the most useful thing in EVE. Without it, EVEMon wouldn't exist. or he could even ask if he can delete it right after they verify him. even less time to gather information about him. or like in my case, he could just not give a damn, and not care who has his API (at this point there's probably a few dozen people who have it). |
Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
570
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Posted - 2012.04.14 03:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
The limited API allows a training officer to use EVE Mon to help manage training without a lot of back and forth. The API can be changed almost instantly, so if you leave a corp, or suddenly mistrust...which means you should leave...presto! They have no info.
Giving out permissions on the scale they seem to be is no more than a labor saving device so the CEO and officers aren't saddled with being "available" to their members to accomplish tasks. Given this, you can assume the corp you're entering isn't well-managed. You can expect that you'll barely exist to your upper ups.
Any corp that just hands out access to the corp wallet probably deserves being hit by a thief. Most spies won't just rob a corp. That would be part of an eventual, heavy-duty offensive move. The limited API won't provide enough information to reveal whom a CEO and officer corps has trusted more than they should. Usually, such spies have worked their ways high up in the organizational structure of a corp.
Using the API system for reasons of security misapprehends the nature of internal security. By the time you've been hit, the one who hit you will be proud to broadcast that they did. It's the "twist the knife once it's in" portion of the show. Even IF a CEO could SEE this person's wallet increase proportionately to the decrease in the corps funds - player wallet = 500 billion, corp wallet = 0, it's not anything one couldn't assume on their own, or ... again ... they deserve to be hit.
The tried and true defense against spies is obviously loyalty. Compartmentalization so one higher up doesn't have access to everything is the rule. Any officer expecting permissions in areas that don't concern them shouldn't be an officer. I could go for days on this, but suffice to say, the API isn't an answer to sound judgement, responsible behavior and true dedication.
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
662
|
Posted - 2012.04.14 03:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
leviticus ander wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:OP: you can delete an API key at any time. So if you leave a corp that wanted your API, you just delete it and BOOM, no more data for them. API is the most useful thing in EVE. Without it, EVEMon wouldn't exist. or he could even ask if he can delete it right after they verify him. even less time to gather information about him. or like in my case, he could just not give a damn, and not care who has his API (at this point there's probably a few dozen people who have it). Well yeah. Not caring is a plus.
I'd even post my API here... would be fun to see how many use it. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
480
|
Posted - 2012.04.14 04:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
Moonaura wrote:The wallet journal reveals a lot that is important to avoid griefers and spies. It all comes down to undeclared alts, and the wallet journal is one of the few ways to try and spot them. The skill sheet speaks for itself, and is essential to judge if a player is adequate for what you are trying to achieve as a corp and what they might need to work on.
Frankly, if somebody is serious about joining a corp, they should be totally cool with being open about their character.
alts should be just that. alts... it shouldn't matter who your other characters are. |
Endeavour Starfleet
797
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Posted - 2012.04.14 04:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
The tend of demanding full api is alarming but sadly somewhat expected due to how COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY BORKED the corp and POS systems and permissions are.
If I have read correctly you can only effectively isolate 6-7 people (That includes alts) before someone has to start sharing permissions and risk getting his stuff stolen. The result has been a stunningly high amount of reports of corp theft and other activities that normally should not even be possible.
This is why I am so saddened and surprised that the modular corp and POS system is little more than a modified picture from minecraft at this time.
WITH modular corp and POS settings you can isolate potential spies and thieves well before they have a chance to do the deed. Forcing them to do more to earn the trust needed to get into the higher levels as it should be.
Some moan and cry that the system will get another of their favorite pasttimes. Yet the big picture is it is giving a ton of unneeded power to large alliances and corps that can afford the extra measures and therefore can demand full API.
At the VERY least we need a middle quick fix of allowing creation of Personal Hangars that include ships and items that can only be accessed by the player who put it up. Its a kludge but it will serve to help put a stop to this crap before the real modular system comes online. |
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