Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.12.26 23:53:00 -
[121]
Originally by: ebonyivory so alls you have to show for your tempest is the slightly higher alfa and decreased range and dps. So now tell me thats not sub-par?
Alpha make everything in fleet fights. Nobody gets a second shot. Fetchez la vache !
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2008.12.26 23:59:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: ebonyivory so alls you have to show for your tempest is the slightly higher alfa and decreased range and dps. So now tell me thats not sub-par?
Alpha make everything in fleet fights. Nobody gets a second shot.
watch the alliance tournaments, Even in small gang warfare alpha damage is how you get past stronger rep tanks with small amounts of buffer.
Lets say the target is tanking armor, you take out the shield and start to work at the armor. Everyone in your fleet hits the target for 800 dps, however the ship with logistics support can tank this 800 dps.
HOwever the buffer is only 4000 hp. So instead you take out a fleet that deals only 500dps, but can deal over 5000 damage in aplha. Thus each hit, even though they can tank back to full armor, they take 1000 structure damage each volley.
|
ebonyivory
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 00:11:00 -
[123]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: ebonyivory so alls you have to show for your tempest is the slightly higher alfa and decreased range and dps. So now tell me thats not sub-par?
Alpha make everything in fleet fights. Nobody gets a second shot.
watch the alliance tournaments, Even in small gang warfare alpha damage is how you get past stronger rep tanks with small amounts of buffer.
Lets say the target is tanking armor, you take out the shield and start to work at the armor. Everyone in your fleet hits the target for 800 dps, however the ship with logistics support can tank this 800 dps.
HOwever the buffer is only 4000 hp. So instead you take out a fleet that deals only 500dps, but can deal over 5000 damage in aplha. Thus each hit, even though they can tank back to full armor, they take 1000 structure damage each volley.
aaand how many small gangs do you see these days >.>
|
masternerdguy
Gallente Gate Control Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 00:13:00 -
[124]
why did you choose to be minmattar?
|
ebonyivory
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 00:31:00 -
[125]
Edited by: ebonyivory on 27/12/2008 00:31:47
Originally by: masternerdguy why did you choose to be minmattar?
i didnt i was cladari originally and then i specced minmatar because i liked the idea of speed tanking and the hurricane is a good ship
edit: and now im stuck with the hurricane as speed tanking no longer works
|
masternerdguy
Gallente Gate Control Eradication Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 00:47:00 -
[126]
Originally by: ebonyivory Edited by: ebonyivory on 27/12/2008 00:31:47
Originally by: masternerdguy why did you choose to be minmattar?
i didnt i was cladari originally and then i specced minmatar because i liked the idea of speed tanking and the hurricane is a good ship
edit: and now im stuck with the hurricane as speed tanking no longer works
you can speed tank still, i do it.
Use an AB and orbit your target inside optimal range. Then use defenders to defeat missiles.
|
ebonyivory
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 01:28:00 -
[127]
Originally by: masternerdguy
Originally by: ebonyivory Edited by: ebonyivory on 27/12/2008 00:31:47
Originally by: masternerdguy why did you choose to be minmattar?
i didnt i was cladari originally and then i specced minmatar because i liked the idea of speed tanking and the hurricane is a good ship
edit: and now im stuck with the hurricane as speed tanking no longer works
you can speed tank still, i do it.
Use an AB and orbit your target inside optimal range. Then use defenders to defeat missiles.
unsuccesful troll is unsuccesful
|
Viqer Fell
Minmatar When Hippo Attacks Go Wrong
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 03:28:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Viqer Fell on 27/12/2008 03:28:44
Where to start I wonder?
Ok bit of background I guess, flesh out my credentials before I get told to scuttle back under the bridge.
Started playing after release as, well as me tbh. Viqer is my first character and I have played him constantly for well 5 years or so now pretty much constantly. Never wasted time training alts on this account. I started as a hardcore minmatar terrorist blowing up amarrians and never looked back. Spent the last 3 years running a merc corp.
I have almost 80m SP and am just shy of 300 skills trained and just shy of 100 level v's so I do feel somewhat qualified to frame a reply to your "Boost Minmatar Stuff, It sucksÖ" thread.
Back in 2003 at release the game went like this:
Caldari : Beginner mode Gallente : Easy mode Amarr : Hard Minmatar :
Eve is all about change and evolution but some things are immutable and the above would appear to be one of those things. Whilst there are flavours of the month, favoured play styles, individual ships and ship classes that come to the fore and then sink back into obscurity the general rule of thumb is that the further down the list you go the more SP you needed to invest to be effective. Please note the generalisation here before you rush back with a ill thought correction.
Minmatar don't suck but I'll give you this. They got shafted royally when it came to their racial advantage. A lot is made of their natural speed advantage and versatility but tbh a 20m/s speed advantage over the other races BS for example and for versatility read split weapon systems and some ships needing armour tank and some needing shield tank, well all I can say is gee thanks for not very much.
1)Capitals are by far the worst
I'll put as much effort into my reply as you did in constructing your argument. No they aren't. They may not be the best out there but they are certainly not as massively disadvantaged as you suggest.
2)Hacs are crap
The muninn was always the Ginger haired basard of the the HAC family but again this comes down to how much effort you want to put into flying it. Multiple years worth of skills is probably beyond most people's attention span these days. As for the Vagabond well it was always a tad overpowered and maybe there is justification for a very mild boost to its base speed. It's still a good ship just it can't solo wtfpwn eveything whilst zooming about at 15km/sec and needs to be used like many other ships do, in conjunction with other ships.
3)2 of the bses are crap/subpar
Shame you fail to mention which 2 you think these are.
Typhoon : I'll happily take on any other Tier 1 BS in a typhoon so struggling to see your point here Tempest : Artillery is the issue here not the ship, which I assume is your gripe with the pest. An A/C pest still can be a vary nasty beast. Maelstrom : must confess not flown one in a while but very easy to fit with whatever you want, can fit a very nice shield tank and again my only issue is more with artillery as a weapon rather than against the ship class.
4)split weapons suck
Only if you don't have 80m Sp I guess but seriously they don't suck, they're just not as great as CCP like to think they are in terms of versatility.
5)Recons are sub-par
Yeah cause Rapiers and Huginns just really suck. I guess what you're really *****ing at here is that they're not solo killing machines. Well sorry but that's not really an argument for a boost. They perform very very useful roles in many people's mind.
6)speed tanking is now effectively useless.
I don't think it is but I do think that on its own it's bloody harder. I see a lot more speed ships adding a minor tank in the form of an active repper or booster as speed alone won't avoid the dmg now usually.
If you think CCP will listen now after 5 years of Bosst Minmatar threads have gone silently by just because you have presented some half assed idea then you are a fool sir.
|
Argilac Blackthorne
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 04:51:00 -
[129]
CCP, please say you will look into balancing Minmatar ships.
|
Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 06:02:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: ebonyivory so alls you have to show for your tempest is the slightly higher alfa and decreased range and dps. So now tell me thats not sub-par?
Alpha make everything in fleet fights. Nobody gets a second shot.
this made my day
Originally by: masternerdguy
Use an AB and orbit your target inside optimal range. Then use defenders to defeat missiles.
hahaha, defenders even if working wouldn't work at ac optimal.
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
|
Evan Batarr
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 13:06:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Evan Batarr on 27/12/2008 13:10:52 @ Kweel - stop posting, you noob. Really. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. You already had to admit you were totally wrong on minnie cap tanks and you should eat the rest of your words, too. 'Triage' in fleet fights - LOL.
I don't agree with the OP that Minmatar sucks completely but there are a lot of issues with our race that need to be adressed.
Most issues have been already posted in this thread - one main thing is missing. Minmatar has NO fleet BS. Everybody with a bit of experience in today's fleet fights knows that range & DD tank & DPS (alpha is pretty unimportant as the primary is dead anyway if hit by 100 ships) make a useful Fleet BS. While all races have a BS being able to lock & shoot at ranges over 200 km (Apoc, Rokh, Mega) and still fit a DD tank and do some serious dmg you won't be able to do so with any of the three Minmatar BS. You can get a Mael to shoot over 200 km but you'd be in 2 x Falloff already meaning you do even more LOL-DPS.
The speed-nerf didn't hit Minmatar as bad as I feared but it's STILL a huge nerf to nearly all the Minmatar ships. The main problem with Minmatar is not that our ships suck so hard (well, some do, like e.g. the capitals) but that nearly all our ships are sub-par compared to the other races counterparts while being more skill intensive at the same time. We only have two ships that (with a bit of good-will) are the best in their class - the Rifter and the Broadsword. If you have a big wallet you can maybe add the Sabre but as it got nerfed really hard (TWO speed nerfs) and dictors are throwaway ships I prefer the much cheaper counterparts. That's all! And if I think about the training time to effectively fit&fly minmatar ships that's pretty poor! We have some ships that can compare (e.g. Stabber Fleet, Sleipnir, Rupture, Jaguar, Hurricane) but in most cases those ships only make it to a split second place. Still pretty poor. I fly Amarr & Minmatar (everything up to BS size - excl. Marauders & Black-Ops - with T2 Lasers/Projectiles fitted) and ATM there's pretty much no class I'd prefer Minmatar (except maybe Bomber, AssFrig & HIC - all classes I seldomly fly). The important classes like BS, Recon, HAC, CS I take the Amarr Ships. Minmatar ships are described to be versatile - unfortunately in EVE it's not an advantage, it's a disadvantage. You need to skill everything and still suck. And the often used argument that projectile weapons can switch damage types means in fact nothing in times of omni-tanks. You either use Rep. Fleet EMP or Long Range T2-Ammo (on very few occasions maybe Rep. Fleet Phased Plasma). And having ships with strange slot layouts doesn't mean you can fit an armor or shield tank - in the end you just suck compared to ships that have been designed for one type of tank (disregarding you only have to train for one type of tank). Same for split weapon systems - as long as these ships don't get a dmg bonus for ALL weapons and still a second bonus they will stay sub par. It's the same as if a Megathron had one dmg bonus for Rails and one for Blasters and nothing else. Only Minmatar ships (Typh, Nagl) have to deal with crap like that - not even mentioning you have to max out two different weapon systems before even thinking of flying such a ship. And you STILL would do LOL-dmg compared to other Tier 1-BS.
tl;dr Minmatar needs a Fleet BS (give us a ship with bonus on optimal) and some ships need a serious overhaul. Projectile Weapons need to be looked after as well - adding a falloff mod (like Tracking Enh. just with falloff instead of optimal) would be a start.
|
ebonyivory
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 14:44:00 -
[132]
To viqer
wow for someone with 80mil sp you are a bit of an idiot.
First off with 80mil sp im pretty sure any ship would be good...however not everyone has 80mil sp.
1)the minnie capitals ARE the worst i defy you to find a worse dread than the nagl and a worse cap than the nid. Not only that but the nagl is REALLY bad (see more damage fitting lazors) 2)The munnin sucks everyone agreees on this. A 10km/s vagabond cost billions of isk to fit and could be killed by any bs pilot with a neut so really the arguement against it is abit stupid. I mean carebears spend billions of isk on ratting ships and they dont even get exposed to danger.... 3)the typhoon is a good bs. Yes the pest is crap because artillery sucks....so perhaps fixing that would be a nice idea as sniper fleets are reasonably common these days? Same thing with mael ofc. 4)Split weapons SUCK you get less dps and its harder to fit damage mods for both weapon types. 5)Maybe in peoples minds....since you need 2 webs which hurts your tank nowadays they are basically used as expensive stealth bombers for popping inties before gettin instapopped by the first mega dps sniper apoc. 6)The speed nerf killed the vagabond....you cant fit an armour tank and a shield tank is a pita (if not impossible to fit)in ccps time honoured tradition of overnerfing things they have basically killed one of the few ships that made minmatar really good.
|
Random Womble
Minmatar Master Miners
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 14:47:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Random Womble on 27/12/2008 14:48:54 Edited by: Random Womble on 27/12/2008 14:48:16 One last note on split weapons the nightmare (and other sansha ships) got changed because it had split weapons and they sucked so CCP revamped it gave it a maruader like bonus and made it unique vs paladin by giving it a shield tank rather than old armor one now nightmare gets classed as an awesome ship. Point is CCP admitted with it that split weapons and split damage bonuses fail yet a while later they still introduced the fleet scythe which again had split weapons is it just me or does that seem a bit illogical. CCP are not really sure what they want to do with minmatar.
And no im not saying make the same changes the nightmare ect had im just saying some changes need to be made.
|
Evan Batarr
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 15:07:00 -
[134]
Originally by: ebonyivory 2)The munnin sucks everyone agreees on this.
Nope, I don't. If you use it as a Sniper it doesn't suck at all. Unfortunately the Eagle is so much better as sniper and the zealot is as good as a Muninn if not better.
Good example for what I wrote in my earlier post. Minmatar ships don't suck mostly BUT!!!! they don't shine either.
|
NightmareX
D00M. Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 15:39:00 -
[135]
Edited by: NightmareX on 27/12/2008 15:40:52 ebony, are you ****ing ******ed or what?.
First you call us for idiot because we say Minmatar is good. And then you say the Tempest is crap only because the Artilleries is not so good.
Uhm, i would say that the Artilleries are the crap here then, not the Tempest. But for me the Artilleries are good.
But with my experience and 3+ years of using the Tempest i will say that your words about Minmatar is a ****ing joke and troll.
Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike' |
darkmancer
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 15:56:00 -
[136]
I'm caldari specced and i can't use t2 projectiles but i find myself using minmater ships as often as not.
Frankly ccp buff them all you want, they don't need it but they're fantastic fun to use. --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong |
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 16:00:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Evan Batarr Edited by: Evan Batarr on 27/12/2008 13:10:52 @ Kweel - stop posting, you noob. (...) Minmatar has NO fleet BS.
Let's troll ? No, you made it by yourself. Fetchez la vache !
|
Evan Batarr
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 16:04:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: Evan Batarr Edited by: Evan Batarr on 27/12/2008 13:10:52 @ Kweel - stop posting, you noob. (...) Minmatar has NO fleet BS.
Let's troll ? No, you made it by yourself.
This just supports what I wrote. You have NO IDEA of fleet warfare (or anything else).
|
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 16:11:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Evan Batarr
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: Evan Batarr Edited by: Evan Batarr on 27/12/2008 13:10:52 @ Kweel - stop posting, you noob. (...) Minmatar has NO fleet BS.
Let's troll ? No, you made it by yourself.
This just supports what I wrote. You have NO IDEA of fleet warfare (or anything else).
Yes, i'm a bot in fact. I write random things. Tempest are still primaried in fleets don't you wonder ? Fetchez la vache !
|
ebonyivory
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 17:02:00 -
[140]
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 27/12/2008 15:56:49 ebony, are you ****ing ******ed or what?.
First you call us for idiot because we say Minmatar is good. And then you say the Tempest is crap only because the Artilleries is not so good.
Uhm, i would say that the Artilleries are the crap here then, not the Tempest. But for me the Artilleries are good.
But with my experience and 3+ years of using the Tempest, Vagabond, Hurricane, Jaguar and Rifter+++ i will say that your words about Minmatar is a ****ing joke and troll.
minmatar suck because they use artillery....thats not too hard to understand is it
if they didnt use artillery (for example used lazors with correct ship bonuses then they wouldnt suck) but as it is they use artillery so they suck
hurricane/jag are fine vagabond is easily beaten by any other hac dps/tank wise artillery tempest sucks simple as really
|
|
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 17:09:00 -
[141]
i like some of my minnie ships....
that said, they all could do with even less signature - even the scimitar. the slot layout only "allows" shield extenders; shield booster on cap charges and MWD...? not with minnie pg and/or overall cap stats. even the mael and pest (have to) utilize them against the ragnarok.
sure, shield extenders could work differently, but smaller signatures across the board might take some stress off capitals aswell. i'm thinking ~25% below amarr. yes, that much.
well and then there's arties...... i dont mind the lower EFT damage, it is (mostly) expl after all - if i had the "certainty" of optimal range, or the amarr-like low slots to use gyros and enhancers. i understand increasing optimal range is not an option in order to keep the flavours. but could we settle on (way) more tracking? or we'll have to nerf the obvious for everyone else: tracking enhancers. and fitting arties is just evil. i prefer 5x1400mm tempests with an extra gyro instead of a reactor control II, which doesnt even deliver the extra gun on its own. no matter how you spin it, that'll never compete with 7 rails or (downsized) beams.
in short: - smaller signatures - arties need more tracking and/or less fitting req's - tracking enhancers need revision
oh and get rid of the vaga speed bonus already. it ruins the fun for all other minnie ships whenever it comes to speed discussions/balances/nerfs. i can barely follow QRs logic with the mass~ and agility changes. - putting the gist back into logistics |
Evan Batarr
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 17:09:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Yes, i'm a bot in fact. I write random things. Tempest are still primaried in fleets don't you wonder ?
Everybody can see that - no need to point it out
Well, not in the fleets I'm flying in. They mostly can't even lock/shoot at the range we warp in. I don't bother with ships that can't touch me. But come on - show me a Tempest fitting that is DD proof (1 x LV V DD - no matter the type), can lock & shoot over 200 km and does still a bit of dmg.
|
Jared D'Uroth
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 17:20:00 -
[143]
Originally by: ebonyivory
1)Capitals are by far the worst √ - FREAKING VERTICAL is not a reason to fly a dread ;) 2)MUNNINS are crap √ - (Vaga is fine) 3)2 of the bses are crap/subpar X - Which ones are you referring to? All of them seem on-par and inline with others 4)split weapons suck √ - Very true. It is **** to have to train two weapons systems and two tanks in order to fly the ships effectivley. 5)Recons are sub-par √ - Would like to see some boost there, yes. 6)speed tanking is now effectively useless (why spend 200mil on a polyvaga when youl get popped by a drake 0_o) X - Speed tanking is fine and on-par.
You forgot the Marauder.
|
Nikita Alterana
Gallente The Antikythera Mechanism
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 17:59:00 -
[144]
posting in support of the minmatar boost.
I'm a crosstraining Amarr/Minmatar pilot and I have found that minmatar are pretty much the worse ship in every case. Pre QR they at least had speed but now with that gone they have nothing. Their recons are superfluous for the most part but I feel as people get more used to the speed changes and start using painters to combat the fast ships they'll get a boost in useage, but for now, there is no reason to use them. Vaga is bad right now, there is nothing that can be said to defend it, its bad. The Munin, if simply T2 fit, can be matched by a Hurricane (the Hurricane being the only minmatar ship I like to fly) The phoon is skill intensive to the point of ridiculousness, and once you get there, a geddon will still curb stomp you. The Pest, I actually like, and serves well in RR gangs, but with arties it basically flops. The Minmatar guns are imbalanced badly, which is part of the problem I suppose. The Mael, I honestly haven't flown one recently but I have a feeling that a battle of it vs a pulse abaddon would end very badly from it. I have no problem with the longer skilltraining times, but make it have a point, if they take longer to get into, are harder to fly, and require more money to fit then they should be marginally BETTER then their counterparts, not simply on par or worse. case and point, it takes way longer to get into the freaking vertical nag then to get into the rev, and at the end of the day you get a tiny dps increase with only the shortrange weapons (one that the Moros can easily beat) and a worse tank then any of the other dreads. The Nid takes the same amount of time to get into as other carriers but you end up with less armor, less shields, and a crappy bonus.
cut it up and argue it however you want, the minmatar ARE imbalanced, I see no reason why it should automatically take 2x the skillpoints to simply be on par with other races. __________________________________________________ I was Amarr before they were the FOTM and I'll be Amarr after it! I'm also training Minmatar Capitals! And I eat Lions! |
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 18:00:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Evan Batarr But come on - show me a Tempest fitting that is DD proof (1 x LV V DD - no matter the type), can lock & shoot over 200 km and does still a bit of dmg.
With rigs, that's easy. What I got there is 289dps @ 144+44, Alpha 3287, sensor @ 249, 89k ehp, 3x trimarks Or without rigs I got 200dps @ 144+44, Alpha 2749, sensor @ 249, 88k ehp. Fetchez la vache !
|
ebonyivory
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 18:41:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: Evan Batarr But come on - show me a Tempest fitting that is DD proof (1 x LV V DD - no matter the type), can lock & shoot over 200 km and does still a bit of dmg.
With rigs, that's easy. What I got there is 289dps @ 144+44, Alpha 3287, sensor @ 249, 89k ehp, 3x trimarks Or without rigs I got 200dps @ 144+44, Alpha 2749, sensor @ 249, 88k ehp.
thats great.....now if only every other race couldnt do that and more dps at the same time :(
|
Orakkus
Minmatar m3 Corp BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 19:18:00 -
[147]
Originally by: ebonyivory
Reasons minmatar suck
1)Capitals are by far the worst 2)Hacs are crap 3)2 of the bses are crap/subpar 4)split weapons suck 5)Recons are sub-par 6)speed tanking is now effectively useless (why spend 200mil on a polyvaga when youl get popped by a drake 0_o)
1. Can't really answer this as well as I liked to, but the Naglfar is the only Dread that can viable both as an armor or a shield tank. But it will be a few months before I can do my own reviews on this. Nidhoggur I have no idea on.
2. Vagabond isn't crap, wasn't before and it isn't now. Can be viable both as a well tanked/heavy hitter, or (and I really MEAN the "or") a heavy tackler. Muninn.. man I SO want to love that ship.. but it just can't compete as well as the other long-range HAC snipers (and no, I don't wanna hear about how great the Muninn is with ACs.. it isn't.. plain and simple, and believe me.. I've tried).
3. Na, all three battleships are good, its just that 2 are unjustly skill intensive. Personally, I'm a huge fan of the Tempest, but it requires alot of SP and skills to fly it effectively.. though QR has definately given the Tempest a nice boost.
4. Amen. So do split defenses, another Minmatar "feature".
5. Eh, I think I need to spend more time messing with this now that Sig radius has become more of an issue. Still, I'm not a big fan of ships whose only viable purpose is to take out ships smaller than itself.
6. Speed tanking was never supposed to be a "primary" form of tanking. The Active shield tank was supposed to be the Minmatar way of tanking. Speed was just supposed to be a nice bonus along with smaller sig radius to even things out. Most people don't fit Minmatar ships that way and/or try to shoehorn them into roles they were never meant to compete in.
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 19:24:00 -
[148]
Originally by: ebonyivory
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: Evan Batarr But come on - show me a Tempest fitting that is DD proof (1 x LV V DD - no matter the type), can lock & shoot over 200 km and does still a bit of dmg.
With rigs, that's easy. What I got there is 289dps @ 144+44, Alpha 3287, sensor @ 249, 89k ehp, 3x trimarks Or without rigs I got 200dps @ 144+44, Alpha 2749, sensor @ 249, 88k ehp.
thats great.....now if only every other race couldnt do that and more dps at the same time :(
With tiers 2 or 1, Caldari. Fetchez la vache !
|
ebonyivory
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 19:26:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Orakkus
Originally by: ebonyivory
Reasons minmatar suck
1)Capitals are by far the worst 2)Hacs are crap 3)2 of the bses are crap/subpar 4)split weapons suck 5)Recons are sub-par 6)speed tanking is now effectively useless (why spend 200mil on a polyvaga when youl get popped by a drake 0_o)
1. Can't really answer this as well as I liked to, but the Naglfar is the only Dread that can viable both as an armor or a shield tank. But it will be a few months before I can do my own reviews on this. Nidhoggur I have no idea on.
2. Vagabond isn't crap, wasn't before and it isn't now. Can be viable both as a well tanked/heavy hitter, or (and I really MEAN the "or") a heavy tackler. Muninn.. man I SO want to love that ship.. but it just can't compete as well as the other long-range HAC snipers (and no, I don't wanna hear about how great the Muninn is with ACs.. it isn't.. plain and simple, and believe me.. I've tried).
3. Na, all three battleships are good, its just that 2 are unjustly skill intensive. Personally, I'm a huge fan of the Tempest, but it requires alot of SP and skills to fly it effectively.. though QR has definately given the Tempest a nice boost.
4. Amen. So do split defenses, another Minmatar "feature".
5. Eh, I think I need to spend more time messing with this now that Sig radius has become more of an issue. Still, I'm not a big fan of ships whose only viable purpose is to take out ships smaller than itself.
6. Speed tanking was never supposed to be a "primary" form of tanking. The Active shield tank was supposed to be the Minmatar way of tanking. Speed was just supposed to be a nice bonus along with smaller sig radius to even things out. Most people don't fit Minmatar ships that way and/or try to shoehorn them into roles they were never meant to compete in.
1)the nagl does 75% less damage than a rev and can do mroe dmg with unbonused lasers than arties.....the dual tanking thing makes its tank harder to fit well. 2)the only way to effectively tank a vaga is with speed....you CANT armour tank a vaga and you can barely shield tank it....so any other hac will rip it apart. Plus heavy tacklers are pretty crap when they have no tank to speak of. 3)ill have to go over this repeatedly wont i? what part of artillery is crap are you not quite getting? the impossibly small ammo cap? the fighting in falloff? the measily dps compared to lasers? So thats basically 50% of all the fits you can do for minmatar bses in the broadest terms (sniper or close range) 6)since minmatar rely on speed as an advantage it was the primary form of tanking for lots of their ships....in its nerfed state is doesnt really cut it against other tanks as the speed tanking ships find it hard to fit anything midly bufferish
|
Orakkus
Minmatar m3 Corp BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 19:53:00 -
[150]
Originally by: ebonyivory
1)the nagl does 75% less damage than a rev and can do mroe dmg with unbonused lasers than arties.....the dual tanking thing makes its tank harder to fit well. 2)the only way to effectively tank a vaga is with speed....you CANT armour tank a vaga and you can barely shield tank it....so any other hac will rip it apart. Plus heavy tacklers are pretty crap when they have no tank to speak of. 3)ill have to go over this repeatedly wont i? what part of artillery is crap are you not quite getting? the impossibly small ammo cap? the fighting in falloff? the measily dps compared to lasers? So thats basically 50% of all the fits you can do for minmatar bses in the broadest terms (sniper or close range) 6)since minmatar rely on speed as an advantage it was the primary form of tanking for lots of their ships....in its nerfed state is doesnt really cut it against other tanks as the speed tanking ships find it hard to fit anything midly bufferish
1. As I mentioned, I still need to do some direct testing on this personally, but my initial thought process on the Naglfar is that if you need to do heavy damage, you shield tank it, and drop alot of Gyros in the lows. If you need a heavy tank on the other hand, you do sacrifice considerable DPS to achieve it, though it is possible to give it a 1.2mil EHP tank on the Naglfar. It just sucks that you have to chose one or the other.
2. With the inherit resists, shield tanking this ship is great and I have used it very effectively in PVP.. however, as with some Minmatar ships.. I have to chose.. either a good active shield tank, or a mediocre armor tank with tackle.
3. First off, you weren't specific on the gun types..you merely said Battleships in your OP. If we are talking guns, then yes, arties absoultely need a boost and you have my full support on that. ACs, however, are pretty decent and make for some pretty serious ship configs in all three battleships.
6. And that was never the original intent, and that is where the disconnect exists between the players and CCP. Percieved player combat has been focused around blobs and large fleets. CCP has made Minmatar the designated "Skirmish" race, and Active shield tanking, capless weapons with mediocre damage, high speed, and low sig radius play great in that role. The downside is that those advantages disappear against a large fleet, where buffer tanks reign supreme.
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |