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Arc Typ
State War Academy Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.04.13 19:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello,
I just started play EVE a couple of weeks back and I am having a really tough time deciding what race of ship I would like to fly. For example, I know that I want to get Cruiser to V for one race (at least) to have the option of training for Logistics, Covert Ops, Heavy Intradictor, etc. The problem I am having is that I have no clue which race to choose. I know that I would like to do PVP and high end PVP (incusions) in the long run.
Anyway, any advice regarding what ships to pick and why would be greatly appreciated. I have used Evemon to browse the ships, what type of weapons they use, what unlocks what, but I am still no closer to making this monumental decision in my EVE career.
Thanks a lot for any input and I apologize for the very general question.
-Arc Typ |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
209
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Posted - 2012.04.13 19:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why choose only one race? Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Zimmy Zeta
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
956
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Posted - 2012.04.13 19:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
depends on your prefered playstyle:
Caldari: slow shield tanks with huge range and lousy dps that are good for pve and mostly laughed at in pvp Amarr: Even slower, brutish armortanks with lovely lazors that do good damage, but are limited to 2 damage types Minmatar: fast and deadly ships, somewhat fragile and skill intensive, but very popular for pvp Gallente: focus on drones, shortrange weapons and active armortanks. Their ships are ugly but good for suicide ganking.
hope that covers it. -.- |
T-B0NE
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2012.04.13 19:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
You sir are dealing with something many, including myself have dealt with before...
First like so many newbs before me, I tried missile boats, but soon tired of kitting like a little girl and spamming F1 all day.
Then I tried drone boats, but soon tired of sitting and watching my drones have all the fun.
Then I even tried laser boats (I was drunk sue me), but soon discovered Amarrian ship fitting is as rigid as the minds of the space fundies who built them. Not to mention when a laser boat loses cap, it's pretty much stuck in trap.
Then finally, I trusted to rusted, I prayed at the temple of BOOM, and I'm glad I did.
With that said it's a tricky question to answer because tastes will of course vary, you're on the right track actually researching the different ship types though and you'll probably learn alot by doing that. With that said, in my opinion, Minmatar ships are the most versatile, most apt for both pvp and pve, and generally the most kick ass punk rock bat out of hell rustrods ever to fly the unfriendly skies of New Eden (not to mention everytime I hear a 1400mm Howizter go bada boom I orgasm just a little). |
T-B0NE
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2012.04.13 19:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote:Why choose only one race? Oh and that's another thing, due to the nature of minmatar training (we duct tape everything and the kitchen sink to our ships) you pretty much end up training every tanking method and weapon system, which makes it that much easier to cross train into other racial ships. |
Zimmy Zeta
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
956
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Posted - 2012.04.13 19:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
As far as I know both Minmatar and Amarr are currently considered "strong" races. While Minnie ships generally perform well in all sizes, the Amarr ship line starts of rather weak but really begins to shine once you have reached battlecruiser size, with some of the most deadly battleships coming next. If you have ever experienced a well skilled, gank-fitted Armageddon going havoc, you will need plastic surgery to remove the evil grin from your face... -.- |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
10
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Posted - 2012.04.13 19:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
For incursions, the easiest to fit and use of the Logistics ships would be Amarr (armor fleets) and Caldari (Shield fleets). These are also the preferred Logis for PvP
For PvP, the easiest races to play are Minmatar and Caldari, due to primary weapons that don't use capacitor (thus, cannot be energy neutralized) and the weapon system with the simplest mechanics (missiles always hit and their damage is an algebraic function) respectively. The most _powerful_ ships and fits are scattered around the races randomly and depend on playstyle quite a bit
Heavy interdictors are, for most practical purposes, essentially all identical regardless of race
More generally, most people have two or three frigate skills to V before they put any of the cruiser skills to V, especially if they fly Stealth Bombers. This is because the training time for frig V is extremely short compared to some of the secondary training it takes to even access the T2 cruisers
OK, on to the actual advice section of the post: base your decision of which race to focus on initially on T1 hulls, not T2 hulls. Even when you have the skills to fly T2 most of your time as a combat pilot will be spent in the T1 hulls that you have the most skill points invested in. This is doubly true in PvP, where flying a T2 ship larger than a frigate tends to just get you focus-fired because the killmail is good for e-peen
So, in my view, your choice for "first race" should boil down mostly to the ships' preferred weapon system and how it plays
Gallente: You either enjoy charging directly at people, forgoing most defense, to punch them in the face /or/ You don't mind micro-managing minions in RTS game
Minmatar: You prefer to set the range of the engagement by being nimbler than the other guy, and think the capacitor mechanic is stupid and should be ignored. Similarly, you don't mind swapping out ammo until you find just the right damage type
Caldari: You think things should die before they even get close, and are willing to warp in and out repeatedly to stay at sniper range /or/ you feel that if something is in the range of your weapon, you should be able to hit it for _something_, end of stor
Amarr: You enjoy playing resource-management games in the style of most other MMOs using your capacitor. You don't feel the need for variety, just effectiveness, and will happily sit there absorbing damage if that means you can hit the other guy back even harder
These obviously aren't absolutes, as every race has some flexibility, but this is how the basic racial differences tend to work out, at least for T1. T2 ships actually tend to be focused much more on their _role_ than their _race_ in most cases, race usually just sets the damage type or the repper type. Disregarding those specifics, there's little difference between, say, a Nemesis and a Hound. At least from the perspective of a new player, I'm sure with you're over 10m xp or so you'll have as big a stick up your arse about that one slot layout difference |
Brodit
Dark Harlequin
4
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Posted - 2012.04.13 19:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cross training opens up the faction cruisers as well as providing you the opportunity to surprise your opponent by mixing up you flying style. |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
88
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Posted - 2012.04.13 19:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
There are different ways you can figure out what ships to fly. I would do the following and that should help you narrow down your choice
1. watch some youtube videos that showcase pvp action for different ship types 2. look at what playstyle each race offers 3. look at a bunch of pictures 4. if you are in a corp/allinace, what ships do they usually fly?
I chose Amarr ships to train first as they have a good selection of powerful ships and they look sexy as hell. The Amarr battleships are the bees knees On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun |
T-B0NE
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2012.04.13 19:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:I chose Amarr ships to train first as they have a good selection of powerful ships and they look sexy as hell. The Amarr battleships are the bees knees Sure if you like hulls plated with the false teeth of enslaved Brutor pimps.
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mxzf
Shovel Bros
1205
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Posted - 2012.04.13 19:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
As someone who is currently finishing up his fourth Cruiser 5, I'll throw my vote into the 'crosstrain' pile. In my opinion, more races == more variety/choices == more fun.
As to which one to train first, go for whatever sounds fun and lines up with what you want to do the best. When it comes to the races, there's no 'wrong' choices, just training you could have put off 'till later. I would suggest getting Cruisers/BCs in all four races and fly each of them for a while to see which one you like the most; then go with that one. |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
11
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Posted - 2012.04.13 19:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
mxzf wrote:As someone who is currently finishing up his fourth Cruiser 5, I'll throw my vote into the 'crosstrain' pile. In my opinion, more races == more variety/choices == more fun.
As to which one to train first, go for whatever sounds fun and lines up with what you want to do the best. When it comes to the races, there's no 'wrong' choices, just training you could have put off 'till later. I would suggest getting Cruisers/BCs in all four races and fly each of them for a while to see which one you like the most; then go with that one.
Good advice for a player that's been in for a few months and is sitting on a decent pile of isk, minerals, and secondary skills? Yes.
Good advice for "I just started playing a week ago"? No.
Please remember that this is the New Citizen forum, we need to push them in a direction that will result in them enjoying the game and becoming effective at starter tasks like missions and staying isk-stable in PvP, not overwhelm them by advising training strategies more appropriate to what passes for end-game around here. I know he technically _asked_ a long-term question, but given the forum you still want to take that week-old character bit into consideration: trying to cross-train all ships and weapons when you're still under the 900k sp mark will make the game really, really annoying and difficult. |
Arc Typ
State War Academy Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.04.13 20:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Thanks a lot for the replies, everyone! Some great advice in here.
I definitely hope to be playing long enough to cross-train multiple races, but for the moment I would like to focus on specializing and unlocking more variety, as opposed to having three racial frigates to V.
From the sounds of things I may be more of a Minmatar player. I have heard that Caldari are not the greatest (Drake and Tengu being the best two ships, but they get left out of Incursions and missile boats are not preferable for PVP). I am not horribly interested in a drone boat, so I believe Gallente are out (for now) and I don't like the idea of having limited variety and weak T1 ships (so we can nix Amarr).
Does that analysis sound accurate? Thanks a lot again, everyone! |
Desmont McCallock
161
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Posted - 2012.04.13 20:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
I have only one word for you: Minmatar. |
Arc Typ
State War Academy Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.04.13 20:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Desmont McCallock wrote:I have only one word for you: Minmatar.
I'd come to the same conclusion (see above post), but could you elaborate why you feel that way? |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1205
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 20:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:mxzf wrote:As someone who is currently finishing up his fourth Cruiser 5, I'll throw my vote into the 'crosstrain' pile. In my opinion, more races == more variety/choices == more fun.
As to which one to train first, go for whatever sounds fun and lines up with what you want to do the best. When it comes to the races, there's no 'wrong' choices, just training you could have put off 'till later. I would suggest getting Cruisers/BCs in all four races and fly each of them for a while to see which one you like the most; then go with that one. Good advice for a player that's been in for a few months and is sitting on a decent pile of isk, minerals, and secondary skills? Yes. Good advice for "I just started playing a week ago"? No. Please remember that this is the New Citizen forum, we need to push them in a direction that will result in them enjoying the game and becoming effective at starter tasks like missions and staying isk-stable in PvP, not overwhelm them by advising training strategies more appropriate to what passes for end-game around here. I know he technically _asked_ a long-term question, but given the forum you still want to take that week-old character bit into consideration: trying to cross-train all ships and weapons when you're still under the 900k sp mark will make the game really, really annoying and difficult.
That's a very good point, I guess I'm used to talking to slightly older chars most of the time, lol.
In that case I think that the best advice I can give is "Go with what sounds fun". There's no wrong choice in what race you train first. |
T-B0NE
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.04.13 20:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Train rifter, ransom carebears, make isk, be happy (oh yeah, and sell me the corpses). GÇ£Death and destruction are necessary to the health of the world, and therefore as natural, and lovable, as birth and life. Only priests and born cowards moan and weep over dying. Brave men face it with approving nonchalance." - Ragnar Redbeard |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
11
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Posted - 2012.04.13 20:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Arc Typ wrote:Does that analysis sound accurate? Thanks a lot again, everyone!
The Amarr T1 lineup is actually quite strong, it just has less flexibility and variety than most other races. Basically, if you're in an Amarr cruiser or larger, you're shooting things with lasers (the short and long-range lasers aren't as different as the short and long range variants of other gun types) and you're armor-tanking. In terms of sheer numbers, they tend to be very good at both as they have high damage, a good applicability range for that damage, and a royal fuckton of hitpoints.
Also, Caldari have good sniper boats and Gallente have good brawlers (blaster-boats), you're not necessarily _stuck_ with missiles/drones.
Other than that, you seem to have it. Minmatar are a good, well-balanced choice with a lot of room for varying your playstyle if you get bored. Plus, you'll end up training both shield and armor and dumping some points into missiles in order to use the full lineup, so that will help you spread out later... albeit it'll make your training time to full proficiency a bit longer than with other races. |
Zimmy Zeta
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
956
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 20:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
oh, one more thing:
Try to train your prefered weapon system to tech 2 before you start to train for tech 2 hulls. T2 weapons make a huge difference. -.- |
gfldex
463
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Posted - 2012.04.13 20:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Arc Typ wrote:Thanks a lot for any input and I apologize for the very general question.
That's no problem. I can easily counter your with a counter question.
What ships does your FC want you to be in?
When someone burns down your sandcaste, bring sausages. |
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Twulf
The Konvergent League Sanctuary Pact
40
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Posted - 2012.04.13 20:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:oh, one more thing:
Try to train your prefered weapon system to tech 2 before you start to train for tech 2 hulls. T2 weapons make a huge difference.
This, I was never told to worry about T2 weapons, just T2 fittings and I am now trying to play catch with my T1 weapons on my Drake and Raven with T2 fittings. Good tank, **** DPS is where I am at right now.
I did start this toon in 2008 but left after month and tried a few other times to play but never stuck, this time I found the right corp and am staying. I am at 3.6m SP (alot of wasted SP because I did not have anyone to answer questons and just trained stuff that looked "cool")
Best advise is to train what you want to use and that is that. I pvp in my Drake, it does good with HAM (Heavy Assault Missiles) and friends. |
Arc Typ
State War Academy Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.04.13 20:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Arc Typ wrote:Thanks a lot for any input and I apologize for the very general question. That's no problem. I can easily counter your with a counter question. What ships does your FC want you to be in?
You tell me who the FC of the State War Academy is and I'll tell you what ships he wants me in!
Edit: Thanks again for all the input guys. I think I'm set on Minmatar for now, but I would love to hear anymore opinions. |
J'Poll
Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars Side Effect.
160
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Posted - 2012.04.13 22:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Arc Typ wrote:gfldex wrote:Arc Typ wrote:Thanks a lot for any input and I apologize for the very general question. That's no problem. I can easily counter your with a counter question. What ships does your FC want you to be in? You tell me who the FC of the State War Academy is and I'll tell you what ships he wants me in! Edit: Thanks again for all the input guys. I think I'm set on Minmatar for now, but I would love to hear anymore opinions.
What gfldex means by this (likely) is that most player runned corporations / alliances that do PvP have their own doctrine of ships they use. So sometimes being in a corp/alliances means you have to fly certain ships to be part of the PvP fleets, so knowing what your corp/alliance flies also is a great guideline to what to train. Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it. We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
272
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Posted - 2012.04.14 00:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gallente cause we are the prettiest !
Every race has decent enough ships so it is not all that important. What kind of weapon system you prefer (try everything !) is the deciding factor where to start. Drones -> Gallente Guns -> Amarr Missiles -> Caldari Kitchen Sink -> Minmatar Note that Race Ships will be especially good against the NPCs most common in their respective empires. An Amarr ship would be at a disadvantage in Minmatar space as their lazors work badly on the minmatar NPCs, the Angels, and the Amarr ship is vulnerable to the damage types they use. Against Amarr NPCs, Blood Raiders, an Amarr ship will do really good.
Eventually, you'll start crosstraining all races so it is not very important where you start. Due to the diversity in ships I would not recommend the Minmatar to start with, but they are nice ships in PVP especially, and easy enough to train into once you mastered one of the other races' ships.
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Xtrah
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
1
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Posted - 2012.04.16 13:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
I'd recommend joining a corp and training whatever they use, instead of training something for so to look for a corp. I did this mistake, and I would strongly recommend finding a corp you enjoy before you decide to train on a specific race. If you figure your perfect corp is shield-based and your character is armor-based, you will regret. Just a friendly tip :) |
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression
129
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Posted - 2012.04.16 14:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Arc Typ wrote:d high end PVP (incusions)
Incursions are in no way PVP. At most they're just more tedious PVE (imo)
That said, it all depends what you want to do and tbh, BC's are the most versatile ships in the game. Get all racial cruisers to 3 then get bc as high as you can.
Get the gunnery support topped out then work on the racial specific ones. then have super happy funtimes shooting people.
As for logis, do you want to solo? do you want to shield or armor? |
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