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Stitcher
Caldari Duty.
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:50:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Stitcher on 26/12/2008 17:56:03
Originally by: Eran Mintor YOUR people?! I don't know if you intended to sound like a fool or if you even thought before you opened your mouth, but how do you intend on setting people FREE when you still claim them as "OURS"?
You do realise that the vast, VAST majority of the now-former slaves will be Ni-Kunni, right?
Besides, the Matari talk of "Our people" incessantly. What gives you and yours the right to do so if the Amarrians do not have it?
Typical Minmatar explosiveness. All outrage and fire, no restraint. When Mr. Shutaq used the term "Our people" he was referring to Imperial citizens - nothing more, nothing less. These people have lived in the Empire all their lives - they think, worship and act Imperial. They may have Minmatar genes, or Intaki or whatever, but they are Amarrians by culture and upbringing.
If you think genese alone define who is "our people" and who is not, you have an impossibly narrow world-view. -
Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Grr
Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky I think EM/UK have just lost their cause. . .time to rethink your terrorist stratagie aye?
It has never been proven that Electus Matari engage in terrorism. Terrorist sympathisers, thieves, profiteers, traitors, saboteurs however sure.
Trust them or trust in an Empire which has taken care of of them for 9 generations. Difficult choice but we leave it up to them.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.12.26 18:19:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Stitcher These people have lived in the Empire all their lives - they think, worship and act Imperial. They may have Minmatar genes, or Intaki or whatever, but they are Amarrians by culture and upbringing.
And how are you any better to talk for them, than we would be?
Not that we even try to talk for them. We are offering a choice. You are trying to say we should not, because - because of what? How do you know what they are thinking?
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today. |
Stitcher
Caldari Duty.
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Posted - 2008.12.26 19:17:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon And how are you any better to talk for them, than we would be?
Not that we even try to talk for them. We are offering a choice. You are trying to say we should not, because - because of what? How do you know what they are thinking?
The point I'm making is that you're not offering them a choice they didn't already have. It's a nice gesture, but do you really think that people who are effectively Amarrian in mind and soul are going to take you up on it?
It's a waste of nobly-intended efforts that could be more productively spent on people who need and want them.
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as speaking on their behalf - I'm trying to be a voice of moderation here. -
Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
KillJoy Tseng
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.12.26 19:17:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Veron Daerth To the Pilots of EM who have offered such a .. generous hand.. in transporting the newly freed slaves out of the Empire, I would ask, why would you expect such an influx of people seeking to leave? These slaves, well.. citizens, I suppose, are essentially Amarrian by birth and upbringing, and have both lives and homes and jobs here in the Empire.
As in many things, because the Empire isn't homogeneous nor are its people. Perhaps some of these former slaves had continued to be ill-treated by their former owners despite that they were born and raised in the Empire; it does happen. Or perhaps some were well treated and well educated, and wish to learn how other people sharing their blood lived. Perhaps some find the idea of making new lives in a new area interesting and exciting, even if they do look at the Empire as the home where they were born. Maybe some wish to come here and use reason and intellect to convince some of the views they were born and raised to hold.
Those are just some possibilities; there are far more of course. And maybe the majority will choose to stay in the Empire now that they're legally people instead of property. That too is fine. But if even one percent wish to come to the Republic, that's somewhere between six and seven million people. And while this may be a drop in the bucket for the Republic or the Empire, some portion of those may be in situations that we could most ably help with. Thus, influx.
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Veron Daerth
Amarr Blood Meridian
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Posted - 2008.12.26 19:24:00 -
[36]
Ahh, I thank you, Pilot Tseng, for your reasoned and thoughtful reply. I admit that I had not considered those reasons you had stated. On a side note, it is good to have discourse with one and not have rhetoric and invective cast in my face, as it were.
I will make inquiry as to the wishes of those of whom I must emancipate so as to determine if this is the case. Should any wish so, I will refer them to you.
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KillJoy Tseng
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.12.26 19:38:00 -
[37]
We're all (or mostly anyway) reasonable people here, Pilot Daerth. My background has given me my opinions on the Amarrian culture to be sure, which are likely less favorable than your own... but ranting and raving would do nothing useful for those who have been freed. If being polite and reasonable helps even one of my people have a better life, in whatever terms they define... well, it would be hypocritical, vain and stupid to be willing to sacrifice my life for them, but be unwilling to clamp down on my ego.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.12.26 20:39:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Stitcher The point I'm making is that you're not offering them a choice they didn't already have. It's a nice gesture, but do you really think that people who are effectively Amarrian in mind and soul are going to take you up on it?
Stitcher, please look at this post by our exemplary slave owner, Archie.
You will see that 1) the choice offered by the Amarr is anything but balanced, and 2) despite that, some people still choose to come home.
How many more would, if the Amarr would actually take our offer, and make the benefit of staying and leaving equal?
Elsebeth -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today. |
Inara Subaka
Caldari the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2008.12.27 00:30:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Eran Mintor The "options" provided by individuals such as Succubus Subaka and Old-man Khale are really just insults. There are however, many others who are willing to help and I am very happy to see it.
*Inara is barely containing her laughter as she opens her channel*
Succubus... I am hardly a demoness, though my job could be much easier with their power of persuasion at my disposal.
*Settles down slightly, taking on a more serious tone*
My offer was not meant as an insult, as many have stated already, there are likely to be many who will wish to stay in their current positions. I was only offering a possible solution to ease their lives during this troublesome time.
I may not come off as the most altruistic person in New Eden, but I occasionally will go out of my way to prevent unnecessary suffering. That and several of the former lawyers (now legal advisors) that serve me have expressed a concern for some of the families they knew when they lived in the Empire and pointed out a small loophole that could be used to assist. I can't even take claim to the idea, aside from it was my property that came up with it.
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Sepherim
Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris
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Posted - 2008.12.27 05:14:00 -
[40]
The Ordo Quaesitoris is in a position to be able to provide work, housing, churches and all the appropriate ressources to those slaves that wish to remain in the Empire. Being as I am a Ni-Kunni, I understand the situation you are all going through right now, as it has been told to me by my family and other members of our race. We too had our option back in time.
We chose to stay back then, and have become great renown merchants and other tradesmen. The Ordo Quaesitoris offers you all the chance to follow in the steps of the Ni-Kunni and become strong with the Empire.
For you now are part of Amarr.
Ordo Quaesitoris Forum |
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Seyii Aizur
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Posted - 2008.12.27 07:38:00 -
[41]
All they known is a cage, all they gonna know is a cage. Thassall that needs be said, I reckon.
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2008.12.27 11:10:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Alica Wildfire on 27/12/2008 11:11:53 First: good thing for the slaves to get free.
But: this is no justice. For nine generations of Mitar have suffered beyond imagine under the whip and the evil of the Empire. Give them back all they deserve! Give them back the wages for nine generations, give them back their culture, give them back their free spirit and their unbroken will, give them back hope and future. Give them back a compensation for nine generations of torture, rape and genocide. And give justice to the untouched torturers and rapists of our kind. Let them pay for what they have done.
Freedom is just the first step. With this step everything will begin. Now we want justice. And by the way: let go the rest of them too.
Justice! -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.12.27 11:28:00 -
[43]
Electus Matari have a long track record of looking after freed slaves and their offer should be seriously considered.
Let My People Go |
Stitcher
Caldari Duty.
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Posted - 2008.12.27 14:30:00 -
[44]
Given that the Interbus has declared that all recently-freed slaves will receive unlimited interstellar travel passes for free for the entirety of January, I think we can reasonably call EM's offer redundant. -
Captain Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Aldrith Shutaq
Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris
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Posted - 2008.12.27 19:05:00 -
[45]
I applaude this decision made by the InterBus corporation. As I said, it is only appropraite for a neutral party to handle how ever many emmigrants from the Empire there proves to be. Setting foot upon an EM transport would be an unnecessary risk for them, not to mention an rather tactless act in light of the current war and EM's history.
Once again, I thank InterBus for stepping in and relieveing the tension on this touchy subject. Hopefully this will avoid any nasty situations on the Matari border that might have arisen due to the acts of misguided capsuleers more interested in their particular cause thatn the saftey of these people, Amarr or Minmatar alike.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.12.28 11:09:00 -
[46]
The EM offer stands for those who prefer a Republic-loyal transport to that of a neutral Interbus (and yes, there are some). We are naturally delighted of the Interbus offer too, it makes many things ever so much simpler, and offers a means of travel to those who are wary of political entities (also a totally understandable fear, especially for one coming from the Empire).
Elsebeth
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today. |
Pezzle
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.28 11:37:00 -
[47]
And just how many qualifying slaves do you think eggers own? What a publicity stunt.
The reality is. this does not impact our little subsection. Those few lulled into thinking Minmatar society is some sort of promised land are in for a rude awakening.
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Shern
Minmatar Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2008.12.28 15:35:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Shern on 28/12/2008 15:38:04
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon The EM offer stands for those who prefer a Republic-loyal transport to that of a neutral Interbus (and yes, there are some). We are naturally delighted of the Interbus offer too, it makes many things ever so much simpler, and offers a means of travel to those who are wary of political entities (also a totally understandable fear, especially for one coming from the Empire).
Elsebeth
Thank you for your kind offer, Elsebeth, but to be blunt, why should loyal matari quit our Mandate and Empire for the area controlled by your warlord Shakor ? Why would anyone give up the Empire, which with this dramatic Holy Day announcement has shown that it values and cares for it's people.
Tribal radicals have said that we would never be free in our Mandate. They were wrong.
Your radicals have said that we had to come 'home' to be free. Why ?
Your worst radicals claimed they had to 'come for our people'. They said the Reclaiming was a lie, a trick, that God did not care for us.
All this was untrue. Our Mandate and Empire stands and we have been rewarded by the Empress for our loyalty.
The newly freed are home. We are a proud people and we have our own space which we will die for, noble allies in the Empire who will defend us.
We will be there for you when your tribal warlord leads you to darkness, there to lead you back home to the light.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.28 18:04:00 -
[49]
When the Udorians were freed, they elected to remain within Imperial borders.
When the Ni-Kunni were freed, they elected to remain within Imperial borders.
Now, given the choice between living in the glorious Empire as free subjects or eeking out a miserable existence within the Republic, I imagine that the majority of the released Minmatar slaves will also elect to remain within Imperial borders.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.29 10:32:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Grr
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky I think EM/UK have just lost their cause. . .time to rethink your terrorist stratagie aye?
It has never been proven that Electus Matari engage in terrorism. Terrorist sympathisers, thieves, profiteers, traitors, saboteurs however sure.
Trust them or trust in an Empire which has taken care of of them for 9 generations. Difficult choice but we leave it up to them.
Electus Matari have in the past engaged in attacks on slave transports in Amarrian space. That is proof enough for me.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2008.12.29 11:31:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Electus Matari have in the past engaged in attacks on slave transports in Amarrian space. That is proof enough for me.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Would you be willing to extend the same label of terrorist to people who've been discovered operating slaving runs into Minmatar space, and would you hunt them with the same fervour? -----
CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander |
Kathryn Dougans
Amarr B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2008.12.29 15:27:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Originally by: Rodj Blake Electus Matari have in the past engaged in attacks on slave transports in Amarrian space. That is proof enough for me.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Would you be willing to extend the same label of terrorist to people who've been discovered operating slaving runs into Minmatar space, and would you hunt them with the same fervour?
Such operations are illegal according to Imperial Law. As well as Concord rules.
Which would make them criminals and enemies of the Empire.
Don't ask me about the cows. |
Natalcya Katla
Naqam Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.01.01 05:05:00 -
[53]
If these released slaves know what's good for humanity, they will relocate to a place where nobody tries to shove a bunch of ancestors down their throats.
This means disowning the Empire with their whole "9th generation emancipation" (and otherwise blatantly racist) policy as well as the Republic with their comparatively despicable emphasis on genetically based identity.
Every new generation ought to get used to thinking of itself as the first generation as far as identity is concerned. That is the only way humanity is ever going to be able to get up from their stupid trenches and concentrate on a true progressive goal.
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3ll3
Gallente Tranquillity Nation
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Posted - 2009.01.01 06:39:00 -
[54]
Okay to the Amarrian Lady who has dumped their slaves into a cargo can and jet it out into space, the inderviduals have been taken in and like with all those slave that fate brings to my door step I give the choice of returning them back to their native soil and after slave support should they need it or returning them to the Amarrian Empire if that is their wish.
How ever they will be taken to some one who will take great care of them and not misstreet them. After all I may have to accept and comply to their wishes to return them to the Empire it dosen't mean I should let this particular indervidual get her mits upon them again.
For those who will be returning to Matari space I Will be needing to contact you Big Sis to arange transport.
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