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Danae Ori
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Posted - 2008.12.28 06:45:00 -
[1]
Seems to me that tritanium prices have hit a psychological ceiling of 4.0 isk per unit. What are your thoughts about future trit prices? Is trit the victim of a speculative bubble that will inevitably burst? Or with most veldspar belts always exhausted within empire space, are we approaching some production limit? Your predictions and reasons why, pls...
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Stardust CEO
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.12.28 07:37:00 -
[2]
March will bring more newbies than ever, and guess where they'll be? In the belts, mining, and in the factory stations producing ammo and t1 junk. The problem is, the supply will not increase proportionately with demand, because belts are already being mined out in station systems, etc. The orca is making it even easier to mine in non-station systems. Expect trit to hit 6/unit if CCP doesn't do something (like adding in that fabled superveld roid).
Disclaimer - Maybe I'm wrong.
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Hesod Adee
KDS Navy
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Posted - 2008.12.28 08:05:00 -
[3]
Currently insurance provides a lower limit on the cost of T1 ships because if they drop below it, people will buy them to insure and self destruct them at a profit. So the ships price is pushed up until it is above the insurance limit again.
Would this be having a significant effect ? ---------------------------------------------- I support skill queues |
Gawain Hill
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Posted - 2008.12.28 08:06:00 -
[4]
shortage of trit? i remember last tim i got bored i did some level 2 missions with a survay scanner fitted to my ship i counted up that i'd left about 50mill uinits of trit in level 2 missions after a couple of hours of missio running.
now i know peopl will say "50 mill trit in a couple of hours running missions isnt alot" but lets face it 200mill in 3 hours between 3 people isnt bad and that's if they only have 1 toon each but lets face it with all the miners that have 4 or 5 toons and all the corps that do mining ops i don't see it being very difficult to get more than that faster than that.
trit shortage is a myth the price will come down just like it' always done in the past..... it just might not go down as far as it has in the past
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Shintai
Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.12.28 11:21:00 -
[5]
Trit is now 4.10isk and growing
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Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
lryans
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Posted - 2008.12.28 11:23:00 -
[6]
As the CEO of a mining/industry corporation i have seen the prices of trit go up and down over a short time and i think that untill ship prices reflect the price of materials we will see many ship builders just sell minerals. i myself have sold much of the trit i mine for a nice profit over what i would gain from the same trit going into a ship ( a few exceptions ofcurse ) but for the most part anything BS or above has a very small profit margin for those that do not have good blueprints on hand. but that is my 2 cents might not be worth much but there you have it
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SonOfAGhost
Minmatar Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz
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Posted - 2008.12.28 11:48:00 -
[7]
Trit has already peaked, the 5 regions I went through just before DT all had large sell orders 5-10% below what the same regions had as buy orders only a few days ago.
Veldspar is available throughout high-sec in unlimited supply! There is no shortage. There never will be a shortage. You're just not really looking for it. The only problem with trit supply is mining is boring so not enough people want to do it.
If anyone is having trouble finding veldspar I'll be happy to direct you to virtually untouched constellations on the condition you sell it all to local buy orders I'll put up just for you! I'll even buy the ore if you don't have perfect refining. -----
Originally by: kedoremos EVE's economy is **** for CPAs, Annuities, and Stock Brokers.
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Kozka
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Posted - 2008.12.28 16:50:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kozka on 28/12/2008 16:50:24
Originally by: SonO***host Trit has already peaked, the 5 regions I went through just before DT all had large sell orders 5-10% below what the same regions had as buy orders only a few days ago.
Veldspar is available throughout high-sec in unlimited supply! There is no shortage. There never will be a shortage. You're just not really looking for it. The only problem with trit supply is mining is boring so not enough people want to do it.
If anyone is having trouble finding veldspar I'll be happy to direct you to virtually untouched constellations on the condition you sell it all to local buy orders I'll put up just for you! I'll even buy the ore if you don't have perfect refining.
Well said. I don't really expect to see the prices of Tritanium rise much, if at all, over the long-term.
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Astarte Nosferatu
Minmatar Ihatalo Heavy Industries Ihatalo Cartel
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Posted - 2008.12.28 17:50:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Astarte Nosferatu on 28/12/2008 17:50:22 There is no Veldspar shortage, period. People just need to get out and mine some. I have no problem finding 60k+ Veld roids in medium-populated station systems (60-70 people in local), yes, even in The Forge region.
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libertarian cole
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Posted - 2008.12.28 17:55:00 -
[10]
Tritanium prices in null space are next to nothing. If trit ever becomes too expensive or mined out in empire then zero space groups could start jump freighting it in.
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Challis
Caldari Omega Sector
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Posted - 2008.12.28 18:17:00 -
[11]
Sure there is practically unlimited veld/trit in empire. But production isent how it was 2 years ago anymore. There are many many more ppl building bs's/capital ships/supercaps allover the place, cause simply everyones rich now (exept the new ppl). And its almost impossible to supply yourself, or your small industrial corp with your own trit for production, so your only way out is buying it from other ppl. As long as ppl buy, the price will keep going up.
And theres really nothing wrong with that, the market balances itself eventually.
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Stardust CEO
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.12.28 18:28:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu
There is no Veldspar shortage, period.
I can just imagine you with your hands over your ears, repeating this loudly, punctuated occasionally by "Lalala I can't hear you!"
If supply were meeting demand we wouldn't have 4/unit trit.
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Hesod Adee
KDS Navy
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Posted - 2008.12.28 19:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Stardust CEO If supply were meeting demand we wouldn't have 4/unit trit.
Unless supply meets demand at the 4/unit price. ---------------------------------------------- I support skill queues |
Xabier
Amarr THE SORORITY
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Posted - 2008.12.28 20:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Stardust CEO
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu
There is no Veldspar shortage, period.
I can just imagine you with your hands over your ears, repeating this loudly, punctuated occasionally by "Lalala I can't hear you!"
If supply were meeting demand we wouldn't have 4/unit trit.
And yelling there is a shortage wont push the price up anymore then it is.
;)
Doesn't really matter production cost usually stays the same as when one mineral goes up another will go down.
Xabiers Capital Bond #1/2 (FINISHED)
Xabiers Capital Bond #3/4
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Stardust CEO
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.12.28 21:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Hesod Adee
Originally by: Stardust CEO If supply were meeting demand we wouldn't have 4/unit trit.
Unless supply meets demand at the 4/unit price.
Touche.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.29 00:11:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Xabier
Doesn't really matter production cost usually stays the same as when one mineral goes up another will go down.
More or less this.
Pyerite at less than 4 per unit? More common than you think. |
SonOfAGhost
Minmatar Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz
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Posted - 2008.12.29 00:20:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Stardust CEO
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu
There is no Veldspar shortage, period.
I can just imagine you with your hands over your ears, repeating this loudly, punctuated occasionally by "Lalala I can't hear you!"
If supply were meeting demand we wouldn't have 4/unit trit.
Veldspar != trit, take your hands off your ears. Or would it help if we used smaller words? The veldspar supply is unlimited, it's the miner population that isn't.
I've been telling people for a couple years now that most trit was coming from farmers/macros. It still is. Demand for it keeps increasing, yet more of them kept switching to missions (which is actually more damaging to the economy). Could more real players start mining as trit prices rise and it becomes more profitable to do so? Possible, but unlikely. Trit could be 400/unit and mining would still be a poor use of limited recreational time. The farmers, on the other hand, DO follow the money, and this is why prices have been drifting back down, both for trit and ice. Nothing at all to do with the number or size of asteroids. -----
Originally by: kedoremos EVE's economy is **** for CPAs, Annuities, and Stock Brokers.
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PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente aurorae pacificas
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Posted - 2008.12.29 03:39:00 -
[18]
I remember people panicing about the npc shuttle patch, saying that trit would skyrocket into the realms of 8isk/u.
It never happened- it was simply a speculative bubble. The price fell as low as 2isk/u in low sec systems 1 jump from empire. I bought up 100s of millions of units of it for less then 2.8isk/u.
I have since sold off those units @ over 3.9isk/u, making better profits then through my ship production, at much less bother as well. That money has been reinvested into megacyte and zydrine, both of which are reaching yearly lows.
I eagerly anticipate reselling that mega and zyd when this trit bubble bursts and minerals recorrect in the new year.
The only interesting variable here will be changes to mining come this March patch, but it is a bit early to say how the market will react.
Until then please continue driving down megacyte prices in empire while I stockpile a big enough nest egg to basically fund my pvp for another 6 mths.
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Leellu Multipass
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.12.29 06:38:00 -
[19]
Trit is still going up and I don't think it will stop any time soon. It is still more profitable to mission with 1 char then mine veldspar with 3.
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G'kek
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Posted - 2008.12.29 07:06:00 -
[20]
Edited by: G''kek on 29/12/2008 07:08:29 I do hope mineral prices keep increasing. I actually enjoy mining...
Something I'd quite like to ask. Is there any noticable effect of the rising Trit price on the wider economy?
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Stardust CEO
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.12.29 07:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: SonO***host
Veldspar != trit, take your hands off your ears. Or would it help if we used smaller words? The veldspar supply is unlimited, it's the miner population that isn't.
I've been telling people for a couple years now that most trit was coming from farmers/macros. It still is. Demand for it keeps increasing, yet more of them kept switching to missions (which is actually more damaging to the economy). Could more real players start mining as trit prices rise and it becomes more profitable to do so? Possible, but unlikely. Trit could be 400/unit and mining would still be a poor use of limited recreational time. The farmers, on the other hand, DO follow the money, and this is why prices have been drifting back down, both for trit and ice. Nothing at all to do with the number or size of asteroids.
You don't have to be so snippy But alright... if you want to go there, veldspar is limited to all of the roids spawned in Eve. If you want to be reasonable, veldspar is limited to lowsec and hisec (I'd be comfortable saying veldspar mining in 0.0 is relatively non-existant). What I was saying (I'll be very clear this time) is that veldspar in safe space, within easy reach of the lazy miners (most of them), meaning in a station system, is limited to what spawns between belt resets. Yes, some people mine in missions. Yes, trit comes from reprocessing mission loot. Is demand being met, regardless? Not in my opinion. Would it be better met if empire veldspar roids were twice as large? I believe so. Would it also be better met if empire mining corps realized that 98% of traffic through backwater lowsec systems is lone gankers, and went to take advantage of those belts with the help of a couple of corpmates in pvp ships? Yes.
TL;DR - If empire veldspar asteroids were bigger, or miners were willing to take precautions against gankers in lowsec, the tritanium demand would be better met, and prices would come down.
(WARNING - Incoming anecdotal evidence) And for the record, I know plenty of players who mine veldspar.
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Himemiya Anthy
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.12.29 08:40:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Stardust CEO And for the record, I know plenty of players who mine veldspar.
I've been mining veldspar for most of the last twelve hours. And no, I'm not Chribba's alt.
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Danae Ori
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Posted - 2008.12.29 11:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Leellu Multipass Trit is still going up and I don't think it will stop any time soon. It is still more profitable to mission with 1 char then mine veldspar with 3.
Agreed. Mission runners are getting fat with all the isk they're earning. That isk has to go somewhere, and it seems to be going towards trit.
Mission runners and PVPers are demanding bigger and better ships as they grow richer, but trit production growth isn't keeping pace. There's only so much veldspar a noob with Miner I and a frigate can mine. And then he'll realise the $$$ to be made in mission running, and you've lost another miner.
IMO, long-term trit prices will stabilise once empire mining and mission running achieve some kind of parity and relative zero opportunity cost.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.12.29 12:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Himemiya Anthy And no, I'm not Chribba's alt.
His b*tch?
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.29 13:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Originally by: Himemiya Anthy And no, I'm not Chribba's alt.
His b*tch?
...who wouldn't be |
Sharra Savente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.12.29 14:08:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Danae Ori
Originally by: Leellu Multipass Trit is still going up and I don't think it will stop any time soon. It is still more profitable to mission with 1 char then mine veldspar with 3.
Agreed. Mission runners are getting fat with all the isk they're earning. That isk has to go somewhere, and it seems to be going towards trit.
Mission runners and PVPers are demanding bigger and better ships as they grow richer, but trit production growth isn't keeping pace. There's only so much veldspar a noob with Miner I and a frigate can mine. And then he'll realise the $$$ to be made in mission running, and you've lost another miner.
IMO, long-term trit prices will stabilise once empire mining and mission running achieve some kind of parity and relative zero opportunity cost.
I can easily run level 4 missions, yet I still mine veldspar, in a hulk. An expanded rigged hulk holds 17k (I don't bother with GSCs, I'm too lazy). I sometimes prefer to mine because I can semi-afk it, and read the forums:D ____ English doesn't borrow from other languages; it follows other languages down dark alleys, coshes 'em, then rummages in their pockets for loose bits of grammar. |
CornerStoner
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Posted - 2008.12.29 14:39:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Stardust CEO If you want to be reasonable, veldspar is limited to lowsec and hisec (I'd be comfortable saying veldspar mining in 0.0 is relatively non-existant).
I don't know what part of 0.0 you frequent, but the area I operate in has Veldspar rocks the size of stations. Granted we don't mine them as much as the higher-end ores, but they're there and we do mine them as needed. We don't export Trit though (used for production) so what is mined in 0.0 doesn't make it back to empire.
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Stardust CEO
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.12.29 15:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: CornerStoner
Originally by: Stardust CEO If you want to be reasonable, veldspar is limited to lowsec and hisec (I'd be comfortable saying veldspar mining in 0.0 is relatively non-existant).
I don't know what part of 0.0 you frequent, but the area I operate in has Veldspar rocks the size of stations. Granted we don't mine them as much as the higher-end ores, but they're there and we do mine them as needed. We don't export Trit though (used for production) so what is mined in 0.0 doesn't make it back to empire.
This sounds reasonable. I haven't lived in 0.0 for a few months, so I'm out of the loop.
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Astarte Nosferatu
Minmatar Ihatalo Heavy Industries Ihatalo Cartel
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Posted - 2008.12.29 16:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Stardust CEO
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu
There is no Veldspar shortage, period.
I can just imagine you with your hands over your ears, repeating this loudly, punctuated occasionally by "Lalala I can't hear you!"
If supply were meeting demand we wouldn't have 4/unit trit.
I didn't say that supply was meeting demand, I simply said that the alleged Veldspar shortage isn't the problem causing the current (and most) Trit price spikes. Just as 0.0 alliances losing a lot of Capitals lately also isn't the problem. Macromining and RMT is far more a determinating factor in our economy, take away the macrominers and trit might easily go to 10 isk/unit for a while.
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Stardust CEO
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.12.29 17:51:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu
I didn't say that supply was meeting demand, I simply said that the alleged Veldspar shortage isn't the problem causing the current (and most) Trit price spikes. Just as 0.0 alliances losing a lot of Capitals lately also isn't the problem. Macromining and RMT is far more a determinating factor in our economy, take away the macrominers and trit might easily go to 10 isk/unit for a while.
So what are you supposing the shortage in trit is due to? Have the macrominers been harassed more than usual, or do you suppose CCP might have taken some action against macrominers? This is an area I know little about, so I can't make any real guesses.
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