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Loaby
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Posted - 2008.12.30 20:07:00 -
[1]
i know there is a thread somewhere with a discussion whether this skill is usefull for armor tankers or not. cant find it anymore.
should i train it? and: should i train it not beyond lv4?
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.30 20:10:00 -
[2]
I've got a summary of it in my thread explaining skills.
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2008.12.30 20:16:00 -
[3]
The primary benefit of Tactical Shield Manipulation is really that level 4 allows the use of T2 shield hardners, so that won't really apply to an armor tanker. The second benefit is that level 4 allows the learning of the damage type shield compensation skills, which increase the passive resistance of shield modules. Again, that won't really apply to an armor tanker. The tertiary benefit (and the only one that shows in the skill description) is that it prevents bleed-through of damage when you get into that last 25% of shields.
For an armor tanker, this means you'll prevent taking armor damage for another few seconds. At TSM 4 you'll have a roughly 4% chance every time the shield takes damage in that last 25% of some of that damage going through to armor instead. I don't know how it's distributed. At TSM 5 it will not happen. As far as I know, that's the only benefit an armor tanker will get out of this skill. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.30 20:25:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Gavin DeVries For an armor tanker, this means you'll prevent taking armor damage for another few seconds. At TSM 4 you'll have a roughly 4% chance every time the shield takes damage in that last 25% of some of that damage going through to armor instead. I don't know how it's distributed. At TSM 5 it will not happen. As far as I know, that's the only benefit an armor tanker will get out of this skill.
This is not how this skill works (though that's how it is described ingame) and it is why I've included in my thread explaining skills (link is above).
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2008.12.30 20:52:00 -
[5]
Estel, clarification please. Which is correct?
1) If your shields are at 25% or lower and you take a hit, there is a 25% chance of taking some armor damage. If you have TSM 4, there is only a 5% chance of taking some armor damage. Once your shields are gone, all damage is applied to armor.
2) If your shields are at 25% or lower and you take a hit, there is a chance of taking some armor damage. If you have TSM 4, this can only happen when your shields are at 5% or lower. Once your shields are gone, all damage is applied to armor.
I've never read it as (and only just realized that someone might seriously believe that) having TSM 5 would prevent you from ever taking armor damage. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.30 21:08:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Gavin DeVries 2) If your shields are at 25% or lower and you take a hit, there is a chance of taking some armor damage. If you have TSM 4, this can only happen when your shields are at 5% or lower. Once your shields are gone, all damage is applied to armor.
This is correct.
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Loaby
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Posted - 2008.12.30 21:20:00 -
[7]
so there¦s no point training this one as an armor tanker.
are there shield tanked amarr ships?
sorry if this question is too funny
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2008.12.30 21:29:00 -
[8]
It's not too funny. As far as I know, there are no Amarr ships that should be shield tanked. There are some Minmatar and Gallente ships that work well as shield tanks. I expect it's possible to shield tank some Amarr ships, but I think you still have more low slots than mid slows in pretty much all cases. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Zxenis
Caldari Devious - B.L.A.C.K Water Special Operations Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.30 22:19:00 -
[9]
pretty useful skill for hulk pilots, but only to lev 4 and because of the extra resists skills that open up.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. Niccolo Machiavelli (1469 - 1527) |
Han LaoTsu
Free Collective Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:44:00 -
[10]
Shield Compensation IV is a pre-req for the shield comp skills, not Tactical Shield Manipulation.
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ry ry
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Posted - 2008.12.31 12:01:00 -
[11]
if you've done all the armour skills, tactical shield manipulation buys you a few more seconds HP buffer before damage starts bleeding onto your armour.
so yeah, it's useful, but train reppers 5 and the damage-type compensation skills first.
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Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.31 13:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Loaby so there¦s no point training this one as an armor tanker.
are there shield tanked amarr ships?
sorry if this question is too funny
Sansha ships shield tank however and your laser skills will come in useful too. So, if you want to fly a nice, shiny Nightmare...
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Arous Drephius
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.12.31 14:58:00 -
[13]
It's worth training, because the damage that "bleeds" to your armor is EXTRA damage in addition to that hitting your shields. You want to keep your armor undamaged for as long as possible, even if it's only a second or two.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.12.31 15:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Loaby so there¦s no point training this one as an armor tanker.
are there shield tanked amarr ships?
sorry if this question is too funny
Curse and Harbinger!
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Trellish
Ten Ton Hammer Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2008.12.31 15:45:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Trellish on 31/12/2008 15:46:54
Originally by: Loaby so there¦s no point training this one as an armor tanker.
are there shield tanked amarr ships?
sorry if this question is too funny
There are absolutely several amarr ships that are appropriate to fit with shields. Several are listed by the guy prior. I'll add the pilgrim to that one. Obviously shield tanking them is not the only option, however they can sport quite excellent shield tanks as an option.
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Trellish
Ten Ton Hammer Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2008.12.31 15:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Arous Drephius It's worth training, because the damage that "bleeds" to your armor is EXTRA damage in addition to that hitting your shields. You want to keep your armor undamaged for as long as possible, even if it's only a second or two.
Hmmm... I can't say that I know for sure... but I'd question this statement. I'm not aware that the damage that bleeds through to the shields is "extra" I.e. that it's possible for the opponents weapons to do MORE damage than their theoretical maximum for the context.
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inVictu5
Caldari Universal-Corp Nexus-Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.31 16:11:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Estel Arador I've got a summary of it in my thread explaining skills.
Nice link, only spams your pc with Windows... I hate you. Uninstall life
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Argilac Blackthorne
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Posted - 2008.12.31 17:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: inVictu5
Originally by: Estel Arador I've got a summary of it in my thread explaining skills.
Nice link, only spams your pc with Windows... I hate you. Uninstall life
Um, no it doesn't. Stop browsing the gay **** sites.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.31 19:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: inVictu5
Originally by: Estel Arador I've got a summary of it in my thread explaining skills.
Nice link, only spams your pc with Windows... I hate you. Uninstall life
It's a link to a thread on this board
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Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.12.31 22:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Trellish
Originally by: Arous Drephius It's worth training, because the damage that "bleeds" to your armor is EXTRA damage in addition to that hitting your shields. You want to keep your armor undamaged for as long as possible, even if it's only a second or two.
Hmmm... I can't say that I know for sure... but I'd question this statement. I'm not aware that the damage that bleeds through to the shields is "extra" I.e. that it's possible for the opponents weapons to do MORE damage than their theoretical maximum for the context.
I may not be extra damage but it's still damage that has to be accounted for. If you're an Amarr, you need as much cap for weapons as you can get so increasing the time (however little) before you have to hit the reppers is more cap for your guns.
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Freighters need a tank |
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Arous Drephius
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.12.31 23:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Trellish
Originally by: Arous Drephius It's worth training, because the damage that "bleeds" to your armor is EXTRA damage in addition to that hitting your shields. You want to keep your armor undamaged for as long as possible, even if it's only a second or two.
Hmmm... I can't say that I know for sure... but I'd question this statement. I'm not aware that the damage that bleeds through to the shields is "extra" I.e. that it's possible for the opponents weapons to do MORE damage than their theoretical maximum for the context.
Pretty sure Akita T did a bunch of testing and concluded that it was extra damage. I might be completely mistaken though, but damage that's not hitting your armor means you can start repping later, or your buffer lasts longer.
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Marine HK4861
Caldari Radical Technologies
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Posted - 2009.01.01 09:48:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Arous Drephius
Pretty sure Akita T did a bunch of testing and concluded that it was extra damage.
Could you post a link to his numbers if there is one? I'd like to have a look at his experimentation.
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