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Eve Spair
Caldari Black Mesa
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Posted - 2008.12.31 12:49:00 -
[121]
I've read about half the topic and i have to say that most of you either haven't read the OP or totally misunderstood him.
what hes saying is that corps are forcing players to use a mic because its more convenient. and that has been pointed out many times. but by using a mic, the op will get much less enjoyment out of the game. so by enforcing a mic you are making the game much less fun and appealing to him. apparently, he has compromised and used a mic to appease the corp but the corp will not compromise so that he can get more fun out of the game.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.31 12:51:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 31/12/2008 12:51:27 Now that i think of it, CCP should fork up some PR goodies and add a "EVE-mic" to the upcoming (re-)boxed EVE
It could even be one of those caldari "coming up from "somewhere" mic"s.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2008.12.31 12:52:00 -
[123]
listening is mandatory on op's in DAMT.
it is not needed to have a mic, its nice, people i find get a better bond with someone once they know there voice; but not needed.
if your EU and want a corp that wont give you any ****, look us up.
- DAMT -
If you dont know, well, you dont know!
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Poast Warrior
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.31 12:59:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Poast Warrior on 31/12/2008 13:00:39 Edited by: Poast Warrior on 31/12/2008 13:00:18 Comms are a must. That being said, TS is garbage. I wish the larger alliances would use vent instead, TS makes joint ops painful
edit: I are good spellar
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Evangeline Vice
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Posted - 2008.12.31 13:26:00 -
[125]
I personaly dont wanna use a mic,yes i was kicked from gang/fellowships for not starting up my comm but hey i found lots of other fun and eventually meet guys/gals like me.
We dont need to communicate via voice as the commands we write are short and are very understandable and we are well played together so we can ADAPT to the situations that arises.
For those that play the game as a duty is a comm very important same as the best ship,best gear,best stats,biggest POS ... For people that enjoy the game not so much.
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Jon Malkovich
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Posted - 2008.12.31 13:27:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Alowishus Maybe all you folks in this thread that are so against voice comms should form a corp together.
But you're the ****ing lepers of Eve as far as I'm concerned.
your officially my god lol......
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Par'Gellen
Gallente Tres Hombres Sev3rance
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Posted - 2008.12.31 13:30:00 -
[127]
100% agree with the OP. I don't like using voice chat mainly because it goes like this:
silence everyone bursts out talking at once and nobody hears anybody silence everyone bursts out talking at once and nobody hears anybody silence everyone bursts out talking at once and nobody hears anybody silence everyone bursts out talking at once and nobody hears anybody silence everyone bursts out talking at once and nobody hears anybody
At least with typed chat you can scroll up if need be. ---
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baltec1
R.U.S.T. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.31 13:38:00 -
[128]
voice comms are more efficient than typing it all out.
Its also nice to actualy talk to pleople.
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Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar Free Ammatar Aid Organisation
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Posted - 2008.12.31 13:50:00 -
[129]
I prefer not to use any form of speech programs in any game. Mainly because i always have music playing at the same time. Although at a push i will use it rarely. but i don't chat on it, just relay important info (if there is any). People who clog up TS with needless banter get on my nerves.
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Deus Letus
Chooch Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.31 14:08:00 -
[130]
Leave the corp and find a new one
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Cygnus Scott
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.31 15:00:00 -
[131]
What about people who cannot use TS/Vent due to their connection but can play most aspects of EVE just fine (aside from major engagements)?
There are a lot of people still using dial up due to a lack of broadband availability. Satellite blows for gaming AND anything real-time like VoIP, and the Air Cards have a crappy 5GB cap that sucks if its your main connection. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. |
Bart Starr
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Posted - 2008.12.31 18:50:00 -
[132]
There is no big philosophical disussion to be had."
- there is always a philosophical discussion to be had
"Most serious corps in the game require you to have team speak or vent or some sort of voice comms because when you're engaged in combat, everyone needs to be able to give info to the FC immediately; they dont have time for you to type it out and them to read it."
- I've been in many "serious" corps, as this is merely my alt. typing intel has been an accepted means. perhaps we're all gettin a little too lazy to read nowadays. overall, there is this prevalent enforcement of mic usage for individuals' own convenience, without any regard for the convenience of the person on the other side of this exchange. listening in, and/or typing intel have been acceptable in the past. if they are not now, then why not?
"If you're not willing to accept that, then join a corp that does not require it."
- this is becoming extremely difficult, hence my post.
"This is not solely eve online;"
- right, but we're not talking about other games. just because it is the norm, it doesnt mean that you can ignore people's individual experiences, i.e. being unable to get on mic for whatever reason - this reason does not need to be justified because this is a game.
"most raiding guilds in WoW require it"
- absolutely not true. been playing WoW for a long time now.
"That's just the way it is and that's your answer. There's nothing more to it."
- what is the way it is? and if that which you speak of is the way it is, then why is that the
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Turin
Caldari Eternity INC.
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Posted - 2008.12.31 20:05:00 -
[133]
Originally by: UMEE why do i have to use a mic? why cant i just listen in? this has been my issue since the beginning of EVE. after my first month in this one corp, i liked the people and they liked me. one day the CEO convos me and says that "everyone would like to get to know you, why dont you just go out and get yourself a mic, it's only a few bucks?" the convo went on for about 15 minutes, and it was all him trying to convince me. I didnt feel that i had to justify my values, or enter a philosophical discussion. i did anyway, but it didnt end so well. i renew my account, try to get into another corp, and same BS.
my first question is this: why cant i play WITH, and not play with in order to BE? my thing is...i dont want to get to know you. i dont particularly like speaking to people whose faces i dont know over the phone. this is why im not a telemarketer. i certainly dont want to have to sell myself by allowing others to "get to know me" in order to enjoy this game in its full entirety. for me, this isnt a conduit through which i will form meaningful and/or lasting connections. i want to play.
my second question: what if i was a mute, or deaf? the people that i speak to like to say that im shy...but this isnt the case; i work in a very social profession. in addition, i went through all the normal developmental processes, and have what you may consider a normal life for a young adult. but what if I couldnt hear or speak? sometimes I wish people assumed this about me, for the purposes of playing this game.
the thing is, people aren't willing to compromise by at least acknowledging my values. i acknowledge theirs. for pvp ops i say: i'll listen in. i understand that decisions need to be made quickly. but why am i considered a deviant because i dont want to get to know you? ive been on TS before, i HAVE a mic. but 1) i dont want to listen to sad drunken asshats; this is not my idea of a party 2) 70% of the time, i cant make out what people are saying due to static/volume issues 3) i cant understand half the accents out there. 4) most importantly, i dont want to get to know anyone, or make "meaningful" connections with people that i will never meet. this is my value, but no one seems to want to respect that. but I have to respect everyone else's.
I understand what you are saying. I am not one who just tends to hang out on Vent/TS just to hang out for no reason.
But in some situations, its simply a must. As a PVPer, you will not be able to get around it in group PVP. Choices need to be made much faster than can be typed out. YOUR input will possibly be needed in those choices. Maybe you are the scout? Who knows.
The point is, that there will be times you simply cannot avoid it if you want to take part in certain aspects of the game.
Im sure your future corp will be happy to know you already think most of them are loosers.
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Turin
Caldari Eternity INC.
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Posted - 2008.12.31 20:06:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Cygnus Scott What about people who cannot use TS/Vent due to their connection but can play most aspects of EVE just fine (aside from major engagements)?
There are a lot of people still using dial up due to a lack of broadband availability. Satellite blows for gaming AND anything real-time like VoIP, and the Air Cards have a crappy 5GB cap that sucks if its your main connection.
Then those people suck and should move. Or stick to single player games, or stay out of PVP.
Anyone on dialup should avoid PVP imo. the deck is already stacked against them due to latency.
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kunesa
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Posted - 2008.12.31 20:46:00 -
[135]
Originally by: UMEE I RP a gurl online and when my corp made me get on TS they made fun of my manly voice and kicked me quote]
fixd
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Ollie Xavier
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Posted - 2008.12.31 20:47:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Turin
Originally by: Cygnus Scott What about people who cannot use TS/Vent due to their connection but can play most aspects of EVE just fine (aside from major engagements)?
There are a lot of people still using dial up due to a lack of broadband availability. Satellite blows for gaming AND anything real-time like VoIP, and the Air Cards have a crappy 5GB cap that sucks if its your main connection.
Then those people suck and should move. Or stick to single player games, or stay out of PVP.
Anyone on dialup should avoid PVP imo. the deck is already stacked against them due to latency.
Totally agree, if you don't want to be socialble then don't join a gaming community. Plus I have almost always found that those who don't want to use voice in my corp are usually non- English speaking people or the ones who don't take part in the corp yet happily accept all the said corp has to offer. Seriously if you are unwilling to use voice comms then thats fair enough but don't expect to engage in the social aspect i.e. joining corps, fleets etc etc... This is a game that you can only progress in seriously if you join up with others. The OP seems to just want to get on with it and be left alone but joined a corp cos it was the thing to do. Well the OP can quick smartly f*ck off in my book because there are already games for people like him and they aren't MMO's
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Scarlet Pimpdaddy
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Posted - 2008.12.31 20:53:00 -
[137]
Originally by: UMEE most importantly, i dont want to get to know anyone, or make "meaningful" connections with people that i will never meet. this is my value, but no one seems to want to respect that. but I have to respect everyone else's.
Hahahaha! EMO ALERT! EMO ALERT!
Your values include not wanting to: see, touch, be with, talk to, interact with. This is amazingly sad. Get over it, you nub, or you can expect to loive a life with no nookie and that and EVE are why I keep breathing each day!
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.12.31 20:56:00 -
[138]
Voice is a requirement in group pvp. With lag/disconnects typing doesn't always work. Then you've the issue with folks chatting and pushing orders off the screen. Someone talks on an alt that shouldn't and they can be kicked from voice. Besides, how else can we do a logon/logoffski without voice?
Voice is a requirement in many corps. Some of this is trust. Hard to disguise a voice. Many don't trust someone else unless they can hear a voice. This prevents someone with a dozen alts all vouching for each other. If someone rips you off you'll remember their voice for a very long time. Voice is the only thing in game that cannot be changed and stays with someone.
Voice is a requirement of being logged on. If you need help and you cannot talk then expect no immediate help. Too many have lost too many ships when someone screams in chat for help and gets everyone else killed. No voice then expect no help at all.
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bluebeyond
DEATHFUNK Doctrine.
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Posted - 2008.12.31 20:58:00 -
[139]
Originally by: UMEE why do i have to use a mic? why cant i just listen in? this has been my issue since the beginning of EVE. after my first month in this one corp, i liked the people and they liked me. one day the CEO convos me and says that "everyone would like to get to know you, why dont you just go out and get yourself a mic, it's only a few bucks?" the convo went on for about 15 minutes, and it was all him trying to convince me. I didnt feel that i had to justify my values, or enter a philosophical discussion. i did anyway, but it didnt end so well. i renew my account, try to get into another corp, and same BS.
my first question is this: why cant i play WITH, and not play with in order to BE? my thing is...i dont want to get to know you. i dont particularly like speaking to people whose faces i dont know over the phone. this is why im not a telemarketer. i certainly dont want to have to sell myself by allowing others to "get to know me" in order to enjoy this game in its full entirety. for me, this isnt a conduit through which i will form meaningful and/or lasting connections. i want to play.
my second question: what if i was a mute, or deaf? the people that i speak to like to say that im shy...but this isnt the case; i work in a very social profession. in addition, i went through all the normal developmental processes, and have what you may consider a normal life for a young adult. but what if I couldnt hear or speak? sometimes I wish people assumed this about me, for the purposes of playing this game.
the thing is, people aren't willing to compromise by at least acknowledging my values. i acknowledge theirs. for pvp ops i say: i'll listen in. i understand that decisions need to be made quickly. but why am i considered a deviant because i dont want to get to know you? ive been on TS before, i HAVE a mic. but 1) i dont want to listen to sad drunken asshats; this is not my idea of a party 2) 70% of the time, i cant make out what people are saying due to static/volume issues 3) i cant understand half the accents out there. 4) most importantly, i dont want to get to know anyone, or make "meaningful" connections with people that i will never meet. this is my value, but no one seems to want to respect that. but I have to respect everyone else's.
You are fucking weird. What's wrong with talking to people? You scared ro something?
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Evarum Kador
Amarr Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.12.31 20:59:00 -
[140]
Originally by: UMEE
Originally by: Davlos These are called "philosophical questions"?
I appreciate my Nietzsche as much as the next guy, but this isn't infringing upon "your values", mate. This is yourself having a gyroscope-like self-centeredness.
If you really want to talk about this "philosophically", UMEE, you might want to read on more philosophers before spouting more verbal diarrhoea. Any philosopher worth his salt that any person attempting to enter a new enclave or community has to align him- or herself to its rules within it. Christianity/Juadism demands this of its followers, to abide by the law of the land. Titus 3:1 ==> "Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good,"
Buddhism also says this. I don't have the exact quote from the sutras on hand but it mentions the wise man to abide by the laws of any strange land he settles down in.
There're a myriad reasons why almost any other activity online these days has their communities that have the increasing usage of VOIP communication. It's not confined to games. Skype has been becoming a very popular free VOIP phone service for business. And there's nothing wrong with forming bonds with "people you don't intend to meet". Playing MMOs is all about social interaction and forming of said bonds. If you don't wish to have that, the MMO genre isn't for you if you wish to reap the most enjoyment out of it.
you should really read my initial post. and i think you have your philosophy and religion mixed up. philosophy is usually highly critical of mass-effect, whereas religion is a way of using it. in addition, i didnt ground my debate in metaphysics, so Nietzsche has little to do with it all. and finally, Nietzsche's existentialism was an essential stepping stone for today's philosophy, but the guy basically went insane because his thinking could not address the question of being.
At no point in time has ANYTHING you've said even BORDERED a discussion of philosophy! Furthermore, neither has your values been discussed at this point. Definately the lol of the day.
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Stuart Price
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.12.31 20:59:00 -
[141]
Some of my best moments in Eve have happened on/because of Vent/TS.
Such as a former CEO rickrolling the entire bloody channel during a corp meeting. Or the chorus of, "OMG OMG", after I casually announced that I'd ransomed a Dread with an Eagle.
To be honest, the 'need' for a mic depends what you do in game and how seriously you and the rest of your corp take it.
If you're an industrial corp then you shouldn't NEED a mic. If you're a mission-running corp then you shouldn't NEED a mic. If you're in a corp that does massive fleet ops and you don't care about being FC, a scout or whatever other position of responsibility then you shouldn't NEED a mic.
If however, you pvp in smaller groups AT ALL, then NOT having a mic and therefore the ability to speak with a single keypress puts your gang at a disadvantage compared to a gang with complete and well managed comms.
It CAN be done without but not as quickly or without distracting as much attention as typing. If the rest of your corp is concerned with actually being able to win, then requiring it's members to have a mic is unfotunately, not really optional. In addition, it's far easier to shout, "HELP! Come save me, I'm being ganked in the top belt by some cruisers!" over vent than it is to type all of that in the correct channel, hoping that everyone has that channel open and reads it in time.
In my experience, the typed request for help is followed literally a few seconds later by, "Doesn't matter, I'm dead now. And got podded while typing :(".
As for those who can't use a mic for whatever medical reason, then that's unfortunate. This is why these conditions are known as disabilities, handicaps or whatever other politically correct term we're on this year: something that is disadvantageous in some way.
Since playing this game with other people is a real world element (other people being real, unless AI is scarily advanced these days) I'll give a real world analogy:
Would the marines let someone fly helicopters for them, no matter how clever, dedicated and willing to sacrifice his life, future and the rest, if he only had one leg?
It might not be fair, but no-one ever said life would be fair. Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate' |
UMEE
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Posted - 2009.01.02 02:30:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Glengrant UMEE - You don't have to do anything.
If you you dont like to use voice comm - then don't.
But the same is true for any particular corp. If That corp requires voice then that is their choice and you can take it or leave it.
And almost every gang/fleet will require voice for efficiency. That comes with pvp if you want to be successful.
Corps can make any rules they want. Requiring voice is the same as requiring at least x million SP - or only pvpers, or only people from Pacific timezones. If you don't like the requirements you can leave the corp - no need to justify yourself.
You can play solo, or chat with people in npc corp - or create your own corp and establish your own set of rules (voice comm optional or even forbidden).
Appealing to the forum won't be getting you anywhere. You need to find a corp that don't expect its members to use voice and is not serious about pvp.
thanks for your input. not really trying to appeal to the forum, just stating an opinion hoping for some discussion. thats what the forums are for generally. there certainly isnt a consensus on this, as ive been in corps that were anal about mics, and those that werent.
ive been gone from the game for a while, and what prompted me to make this post was the prevalence of the mic requirement, and general frowning on refusal of mic usage. in addition, a corp can be serious about pvp and be willing to have some of its members listen in on TS. i dont know why people are assuming that id like to play the scout role.
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UMEE
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Posted - 2009.01.02 02:31:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Eve Spair I've read about half the topic and i have to say that most of you either haven't read the OP or totally misunderstood him.
what hes saying is that corps are forcing players to use a mic because its more convenient. and that has been pointed out many times. but by using a mic, the op will get much less enjoyment out of the game. so by enforcing a mic you are making the game much less fun and appealing to him. apparently, he has compromised and used a mic to appease the corp but the corp will not compromise so that he can get more fun out of the game.
yes, thank you.
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UMEE
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Posted - 2009.01.02 02:32:00 -
[144]
"At no point in time has ANYTHING you've said even BORDERED a discussion of philosophy! Furthermore, neither has your values been discussed at this point. Definately the lol of the day."
the questioning/discussion of values, and "why" questions IS philosophy. my values are clearly stated, as are the values of many other community members. but lets get back to the topic =)
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UMEE
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Posted - 2009.01.02 02:35:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Jon Malkovich
Originally by: Alowishus Maybe all you folks in this thread that are so against voice comms should form a corp together.
But you're the ****ing lepers of Eve as far as I'm concerned.
your officially my god lol......
yeah, i guess we are lepers in the sense that we stand out by not wanting to isolate ourselves from society, IRL. thanks for your opinion.
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Dr Cron
Northern Lights Number 5
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Posted - 2009.01.02 02:36:00 -
[146]
I know you dont want to hear this but voice comms are mandatory. period.
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Minny Sky
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Posted - 2009.01.02 02:40:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Minny Sky on 02/01/2009 02:42:03 You need a mike if you are going to PvP.
Stop being a puss
Go play some @#$ @#$ single player game otherwise
jeez these anti-social people on the internetz ...
Did I just get trolled????
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Smilla Snow
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Posted - 2009.01.02 02:42:00 -
[148]
If your not in 0.0 and doing some fleet ops, then there is no real reason for voice comunication. And i agree with you, most of the time its hard to understand the pilots when they have to talk in a foreign language. In our Corp its free if you want to use voice or the chat window - both works greate for team ops like mining or lvl 5 missions.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Kid's
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Posted - 2009.01.02 03:17:00 -
[149]
Personally I dislike voice communications in an RPG like EVE and I love the way eve tries to help us avoid it as much as possible.
I hope many more improvements to the client will leed to a reduced need for voice-comms, however I must admit that on certain occations a mike is fairly usefull if not simply mandatory in my opinion: - leading a fleet on a pvp ops - scouting for a fleet pvp ops - and especially as scout: notefying your FC that your eve client crashed
for the remainder being able to listen is enough.
The (mandatory) use of voice-comms should best be listed as fact as part of their corporation information. Also corps that use voice-comms, especially if used as corp chat, should probebly conduct their final interview using voice as well (avoiding the unpleasantries afterwards as somehow the new member just cannot seem to get it working because of 'whatever lame excuse they come up with').
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Trebor Locke
Gallente Round Table Enterprises Leather Rose Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.02 04:36:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Trebor Locke on 02/01/2009 04:39:26 Double post -------------- CEO of Round Table Enterprises Chairman of the Leather Rose Syndicate
Your friendly economic management and trade orginization. |
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