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Hazimus Fletcher
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
0
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Posted - 2012.04.14 20:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
I understand that industry members can't really do much good in a war declaration but is it common for a CEO of a corp to tell the miners to sit at a station and not play until the war is over? Just wondering if this is normal practice.
If it is normal than imo you are taking away game time from the people that pay to play. Myself i dont have the pvp skills at all right now to even do any good because i have focused most of my time in skilling for industry.
I've been reading up a bit and looks like that corps do not have the ability just yet to opt-out of war decs. Too bad.
If there is some information that anybody can help shed the light a bit on how us miners can not be frowned upon but mining in a war dec please tell me.
Thanks |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
418
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Posted - 2012.04.14 20:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Go ahead, undock and mine, then you'll see why your CEO recommends you not to do that. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1212
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Posted - 2012.04.14 20:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well, the simplest way to get wardeccers to leave is typically to make them bored by denying them kills. I'm guessing that that's what your CEO is trying to do.
It's not always the best solution though, since asking people to just not play for a week or two isn't fun either.
There are two other ways to go about stuff: 1. Don't give them any kills, but still go about your business (easy for some professions, but mining and missioning tend to have you sitting in one spot for long periods) 2. Drop corp for the duration of the war.
It is a lame situation though, that's for sure. |
Hazimus Fletcher
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
0
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Posted - 2012.04.14 21:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
You pay for a game to play. How long does a wardec last? For being as old as EVE is it is funny how this situation was not thought of more thoroughly. If a person wanted to opt out of a wardec they should be able to. Nobody is gonna force me not to play the game i paid for.
So basically people who want to focus on manufacturing mining and other things to help out a corp shouldn't be in a corp just because if you get wardec'd you cant play the game anymore until the war is done. lol Makes no sense.
anyways thank for the helpful replies.
I understand my ceo's reasoning but only because the game is set up that way.
I tried to leave corp but apparently i can't leave for 23 hours because i had access to an empty tab in a station.
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Quatarick Metesur
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.04.14 22:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Making an Alt for PvP
So i was thinking then that I would just make an alt train it up for pvp, add him to my corp, so when we get wardec'd i can just switch to my alt then i can actually be of some use and help fight. But apparently you can't train skills that your main has at the same time?
If this is true, why the restriction and what's the point of creating an alt? Well i guess one can spy i guess. :) |
St1ngerella
Ion Corp. Citex Alliance
3
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Posted - 2012.04.14 23:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Only one character can be training at a time, per account. That is why. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
194
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Posted - 2012.04.15 00:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
As long as you pay attention to local and warp to a SS when a hostile enters and/or fly insured t1 barges rather than bringing out your hulks and orcas you should be fine.
Disappearing to another region for awhile can be effective. |
malaire
347
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Posted - 2012.04.15 07:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quatarick Metesur wrote:Making an Alt for PvP
So i was thinking then that I would just make an alt train it up for pvp, add him to my corp, so when we get wardec'd i can just switch to my alt then i can actually be of some use and help fight. But apparently you can't train skills that your main has at the same time?
If this is true, why the restriction and what's the point of creating an alt? Well i guess one can spy i guess. :) Just stop training on your main and you can then train anything you want on alt.
Also, wardecs are getting major changes in Inferno (late May). New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
0
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Posted - 2012.04.15 08:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
It all depends on the "quality" and knowledge of the corp's members, which has nothing to do with being a miner or not and everything to do with one's own drive to put in effort to succeed. People who are (or remain) clueless are best off staying docked because anything else would probably get them in trouble but there's many things you can do to lower the chance of being killed. Here's a few things you can do:
- add all hostile corp members to your contact list and enable the online/offline option, so you KNOW if there's any online (use www.evewho.com for this) - detach local chat from the other windows, expand it vertically and keep an eye on it every second - live in a system that has less people in it so you'll be alerted to hostiles or their neutral scouts - don't jump into systems you have no scout in and generally avoid busy systems because you'll probably miss the one WT who's going to tackle you - if you have to move around, use fast&agile ships, preferably with a MWD and cloak fitted - make undock bookmarks, learn about (re)docking mechanics
Those are all things any player can learn and do regardless of them being a miner or not or them disliking PVP. On the offense side newbies or industrialists can help too: it doesn't take very long to fly a decently fit Blackbird (few days tops), if you have some more combat focussed people in your corp then you can support them just fine with 4-5 rabid miners flying blackbirds who all took an hour or two to talk and practise teamwork. The hostiles will hate you for it which is exactly what you want.
So it all depends on how much effort you and your corp members are willing to put into learning the game a bit and being prepared, preferred playstyle has nothing to do with it. You can choose to stay the victim or you can choose to stand your ground. |
Chal0ner
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
30
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Before I moved out to null I mined through several war decs and only once (as in 1 time) did anyone turn up on my door step. How?
Location, location, location.
I was even very close to Jita - and in high sec. Guess your average high sec war decer is a coward ...
Generally though, of course even indy guys can be useful if you got some decent pvpers in your corp and want to fight. Fit a tackling Rifter and go be a hero ... You'll prolly die a few times, but it's fun and a learning experience. |
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Chal0ner
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
30
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hazimus Fletcher wrote:
I tried to leave corp but apparently i can't leave for 23 hours because i had access to an empty tab in a station.
Honestly, this is a stuped tactic. When we as carebears got pissed off and war deced another corp - one of our goals was to make them leave that corp. Sure you can rejoin later, still a pretty stupid move imho.
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Grikath
T.E.L.O.G.S.
40
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Depends on what the goal of the wardec is, really..
If it's the usual extortion-griefer dec, it makes sense to have your miners drop to NPC corp to do their thing and keep stuff flowing.
Mind, the best defense is still offense, and every sensible corp expects it's members to have either a combat alt, or have at least basic combat skills trained up.
Because seriously... Most of the griefer-decs expect carebears not to bite back, and "stationlocking" a corp is one of their extortion methods. Biting back tends to confuse them immensely.... Highsec isn't "Safe".-á Neither is it a playground for bullies and bottomfeeders. So stop complaining and start playing the game already. |
Megos Adriano
Stoic Assembly Lines Trade Federation Alliance
6
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Posted - 2012.04.15 15:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hazimus Fletcher wrote:I understand that industry members can't really do much good in a war declaration but is it common for a CEO of a corp to tell the miners to sit at a station and not play until the war is over? Just wondering if this is normal practice.
If it is normal than imo you are taking away game time from the people that pay to play. Myself i dont have the pvp skills at all right now to even do any good because i have focused most of my time in skilling for industry.
I've been reading up a bit and looks like that corps do not have the ability just yet to opt-out of war decs. Too bad.
If there is some information that anybody can help shed the light a bit on how us miners can not be frowned upon but mining in a war dec please tell me.
Thanks
Who says Industry members can't do much good in a fight? Can you fit a warp scrambler or some turrets on a frigate? The answer is probably a resounding "yes", so get out there and fight. A lot of "grieferdecs" will be rescinded as soon as they see that their victims are willing to fight back. And one questions why you would only train Industry skills and not any combat skills at all. That's just a silly thing to do.
If you're looking for a game where you can "opt out" of PvP, then EVE Online isn't for you. Even if you stay in NPC corps, you'll be limited to hi-sec and even then people will still "gank" you from time to time. So either suck it up and learn to fight or go play another game. Maybe Harvest Moon? Stoic Assembly Lines is seeking more storks for our herd! Pilots of all ages-áand professions welcome to-ábecome part of our family - we have opportunities for all! For more information, send me an EVE-Mail. |
J'Poll
Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars Side Effect.
160
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Posted - 2012.04.15 15:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hazimus Fletcher wrote:How long does a wardec last?
For as long as the others are willing to pay for it.
Minimum is 1 week, but they have to renew (pay) for each next week, so if they are getting fancy kills etc. it might be a long time till they retract the war dec.
If you don't want to be bother with war decs, hide in a NPC corp.
And as for your CEO, he is doing something more Indy players would agree with, hide so you don't loose your ship. If you loose your precious Hulk it means you have to replace that hard earned hulk again. Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it. We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction |
Cameron Zero
Red Federation
31
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Posted - 2012.04.15 18:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hazimus Fletcher wrote:You pay for a game to play. How long does a wardec last?
For as long as the wardeccer wants it to. In addition, if they see "tears" (a forum post complaining about it), they're likely to continue doing it even longer. Some people just like to cause others grief (a valid playstyle in this game).
Hazimus Fletcher wrote:For being as old as EVE is it is funny how this situation was not thought of more thoroughly. If a person wanted to opt out of a wardec they should be able to. Nobody is gonna force me not to play the game i paid for.
I disagree. Eve Online is PVP nearly 100% of the time. Whether you're battling other players ship to ship or undercutting on the Market, it's all various forms of PVP. Being immune to that isn't what Eve Online is about.
Sidenote: The closest you're going to get to being "immune" to PVP is by staying in an NPC corp in high-sec space. That said, there are pilots and corporations out there who's sole purpose in life, it seems, is to fit up gank ships and blow up miners and industrialists purely "for teh lulz". So, even in an NPC corp in high-sec space, you aren't ever truly safe.
Hazimus Fletcher wrote:So basically people who want to focus on manufacturing mining and other things to help out a corp shouldn't be in a corp just because if you get wardec'd you cant play the game anymore until the war is done. lol Makes no sense.
The wardec mechanics will be changing soon. Whether for the good or not (IE, helpful in your situation), I don't know.
What I can say is that a wardec doesn't need you to stop playing, if you're smart, or have an alt. ;) "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GǪ" |
J'Poll
Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars Side Effect.
160
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 09:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hazimus Fletcher wrote:You pay for a game to play. How long does a wardec last? For being as old as EVE is it is funny how this situation was not thought of more thoroughly. If a person wanted to opt out of a wardec they should be able to. Nobody is gonna force me not to play the game i paid for.
So basically people who want to focus on manufacturing mining and other things to help out a corp shouldn't be in a corp just because if you get wardec'd you cant play the game anymore until the war is done. lol Makes no sense.
anyways thank for the helpful replies.
I understand my ceo's reasoning but only because the game is set up that way.
I tried to leave corp but apparently i can't leave for 23 hours because i had access to an empty tab in a station.
Would like to add to this that EVE is a PvP heavy game and it has always been intended to be, being in a player corp has it's benefits but also it's downsides.
And as for being war-decced. It doesn't prevent you from mining if you take the proper precautions.
- Add all your wartargets to your watchlist, when they are all offline, be paranoid. Whenever one (or more) are online, be even more paranoid.
- Keep local open and always be on the lookout, maybe even place scouts in the adjacent systems.
- If you know where your WT lives move away from it.
- Go to null-sec. In there it's much easier to do stuff as standings is pretty clear: Blue means safe, anything other will shoot you. You also have the benefits of intel channels etc.
All in all, almost everything in EVE is PvP in a way, even mining as you are competing against other miners over the rocks. And if you dislike PvP at all, then EVE will be a hard place to live as it's filled with PvP.
Take for instance the upcomming Hulkageddon. For those that are new, Hulkageddon is a player sponsored event where people get prices if they gank enough mining ships and industrial ships. It doesn't matter if it's a war-dec kill or just a general suicide gank, all it matters is that miners die by you. Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it. We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction |
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression
129
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Posted - 2012.04.16 14:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hazimus Fletcher wrote: I've been reading up a bit and looks like that corps do not have the ability just yet to opt-out of war decs. Too bad.
This is eve, if they give people the chance to "op-out" of pvp they'll be turning on their current player base which will most likley result in mass rage quits.
Also "I don't have skill x so I can't pvp"
erm... you can be useful in a fleet from day 2 of eve tbh.
[Rifter, Low Skill tackle] Gyrostabilizer I Overdrive Injector System I Inertia Stabilizers I
1MN Afterburner I Warp Scrambler I Stasis Webifier I
250mm Light Artillery Cannon I, EMP S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon I, EMP S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon I, EMP S Rocket Launcher I, Mjolnir Rocket
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I Small Auxiliary Thrusters I Small Auxiliary Thrusters I
Fly that, tackle ****, get stuff held down so your guys can blow stuff up, be useful.
You know, if you're not part of the sollution you're part of the problem. Never know, you might realise that losing isk is WAY more interesting than making it. |
gfldex
465
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 15:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cameron Zero wrote:That said, there are pilots and corporations out there who's sole purpose in life, it seems, is to fit up gank ships and blow up miners and industrialists purely "for teh lulz".
Thanks to the boost for player ship salvage and destroyer DPS, it is fairly profitable to gank hulks in highsec. Every now and then you will find a cleverbear who insists on using faction mods on his hulk. That is called a jackpot.
When someone burns down your sandcaste, bring sausages. |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
14
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Posted - 2012.04.16 16:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
You can set your standings to the corp that's wardecced you to a level that isn't being used for anything else (my corp sets long-term enemies to -5, so I tend to do personal settings at -10) then you'll be able to see when War Targets are in local at any time and simply dock up then.
Additionally, you could:
-- Go somewhere else to mine
-- Get your minerals from trading
-- Go around in a PvP-fitted frigate instead, so that you can put up a fight, and even if you lose they don't get a very good killmail
-- (Your corp could) join a larger alliance to make wardeccing you prohibitively expensive and somewhat dangerous.
-- Move to an area of 0.0 that is generally unoccupied and your enemies are too ***** to fly to.
More generally, Eve is a PvP game, period, end of story. If you don't like how your corp handles your region's PvP then you need to join a new corp. Specifically, one that sets guards on mining ops and uses them as bait in wardec situations, apparently. |
Cameron Zero
Red Federation
31
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Posted - 2012.04.16 16:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Cameron Zero wrote:That said, there are pilots and corporations out there who's sole purpose in life, it seems, is to fit up gank ships and blow up miners and industrialists purely "for teh lulz". Thanks to the boost for player ship salvage and destroyer DPS, it is fairly profitable to gank hulks in highsec. Every now and then you will find a cleverbear who insists on using faction mods on his hulk. That is called a jackpot.
True enough! "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GǪ" |
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Lyric Lahnder
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
10
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Posted - 2012.04.16 16:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
If your an industrial corp its a good Idea to make friends with other pvpers by either joining an alliance and becoming a logistical back bone or just providing some stuff for them they cant get themselves. Thats a couple ways there to remedy this problem.
Hey if you havent noticed mineral prices especially trit is on the rise. If you know how to mine and do it well you will have isk. If you have Isk you never have to fight if you dont want too.
Higher Mercenaries. In Inferno they'll make the first attempt to fix the war dec system and there adding the mercenary market place which will help you have official in game contracts for mercenaries to protect you.
http://noirmercs.com/showthread.php?39573-Want-to-hire-Noir
Creation and destruction its the beautiful symphony of the sand box.
Dont be hatin' |
Dr Silkworth
Two Geezers in Space
16
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Posted - 2012.04.16 17:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
A quick look at your old corps bio shows they could be a good corp for you. Your CEO could make a shadow corp for indy toons to jump to at war . I agree people should park industrials during wars unless they are being used as bait for an ambush.
I used to CEO for a noob corp. Hated to see my guys get killed Its part of life here in EVE though. Some guys handled it better than others. You can't eliminate risk in EVE and it doesn't sound like you are trying to eleiminate it but it must be managed to make a profit. You should try to train for PVP at least a little. Make it part of your budget. Its an exciting part of the game you should try. It needs to be a team effort to be any fun though. Train for a rifter, if you have a few other people that are willing to try ewar, a few griffins can even things out. A crucifer can take a lot of dps off the field, I've never lost one. If you can't get a good sized fleet together though, go mow the grass
Also It is hulkageddon, No barge is safe war or not. |
Brodit
Dark Harlequin
4
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Posted - 2012.04.17 22:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
As a CEO, of a small corp I can see the benefit of staying docked. You protect your assets and livelihood to be used post wardec. A similar tactic is used in 0.0, for the same reason. However you are a miner so you probably have decent ind/mem. Train up low level ewar warp scram/ecm/vamps/target damps, maybe add in some buffers remote reps/sensors. If there are 5 in your corp and you take an ewar and a buff each, in 2 days you have a fleet.
Admittedly you wont alpha anyone but you will shut them down, whilst subjecting them death by a 1000 cuts. Infuriating and time consuming for them and you walk away with a juicy km instead of them.
Vive le carebear |
Joran Dravius
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2012.04.18 10:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Quatarick Metesur wrote:If this is true, why the restriction and what's the point of creating an alt? Well i guess one can spy i guess. :) You can create an alt on another account, train it for whatever you want it to do and then transfer the character to the main account for one thing. |
J'Poll
Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars Side Effect.
162
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 10:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
Quatarick Metesur wrote:Making an Alt for PvP
So i was thinking then that I would just make an alt train it up for pvp, add him to my corp, so when we get wardec'd i can just switch to my alt then i can actually be of some use and help fight. But apparently you can't train skills that your main has at the same time?
If this is true, why the restriction and what's the point of creating an alt? Well i guess one can spy i guess. :)
You could:
1.) Use a seperate account for your alt (the general EVE player has 2 accounts on avg.) and train it on there. Even temporary accounts can be used, create an account for say 4 months, train your alt on there for 4 months and then tranfer it to your main account.
2.) You could make / find some time on your main to pause training for a while to train your alt. A tackle PvP Alt only takes about 1 - 2 weeks of training. Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it. We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction |
Cameron Zero
Red Federation
31
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Posted - 2012.04.18 15:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:2.) You could make / find some time on your main to pause training for a while to train your alt. A tackle PvP Alt only takes about 1 - 2 weeks of training.
Weeks? You mean days, don't you? "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GǪ" |
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