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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 05:11:00 -
[1]
A sec status of -10 means nothing, other than the inconvenience of having to fly into Jita in a pod and jump into the ship your friend just dropped for you.
Apparently, EVE only allows Concord to scan a pilot's sec status when they come through the gate. Once they are in, they can jump into a ship and Concord won't notice their presence.
Is it me, or is this just dumb, and a loophole that needs to be closed? Hey, if you want to suicide gank me, that's fine, but the security hit you take needs to actually MEAN SOMETHING to you.
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Evelgrivion
Ignatium.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 05:14:00 -
[2]
You're right; people with -10 shouldn't have to bother with the pod part, and be allowed to go anywhere they want - without any protection from Concord.
Sound fair to you?
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar MasterBlasters Inc. CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2009.01.02 05:15:00 -
[3]
Is it lonely up there on that pedestal? ---------------------- Putting the sensual in nonconsensual |
Khemul Zula
Amarr Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.01.02 05:15:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Khemul Zula on 02/01/2009 05:16:21 It works fine. Adapt or die. Go back to WoW carebear. <insert other generic flame>
Originally by: Evelgrivion You're right; people with -10 shouldn't have to bother with the pod part, and be allowed to go anywhere they want - without any protection from Concord.
Sound fair to you?
Signed. This thread is now about why this should be implemented.
------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. |
Mannheim Wolf
Caldari Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2009.01.02 05:31:00 -
[5]
Being a flashy myself, I would have to say the system is quite limiting as it is.
Plus its the faction navies you're having an issue with, Concord only spawns for GCC. --- Always outnumbered. Most likely outgunned. Never outsmarted.
~Wolf |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.01.02 05:31:00 -
[6]
If the penalties are so nothing then why is barely anyone -10.0? --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 05:52:00 -
[7]
Limiting? Please.
You have -10 sec with Concord. You freely pop in through the gate in your pod. Concord waves at you and asks if you're having a nice day. You jump into a ship your high-standing alt brought in for you, probably a ship you built from a BPO and have insured for more than you have into it. Find a juicy target, gank it. Alt picks up the cargo. Collect insurance on the ship Concord shot up such that CCP is actually *paying* you to do this. Wash, rinse, repeat.
And you can go back to nullsec and rat to get your standing back (but why bother, -10 really doesn't mean anything since Concord won't shoot pods).
Please, please tell me what is soooo limiting. I would love to hear it. The system is so slanted towards PvPers it's not even funny. Just change the rules to let any of us "carebears" to shoot low standing ships and pods without Concord intervention (since we're doing the job they fail to do). The howls of "unfair" would be music to my ears, and I would drink pie tears until I could drink no more.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.02 05:54:00 -
[8]
ANGRY TEXT IN CAPITAL LETTERS THIS IS A SERIOUS POST I AM INTELLIGENT DO WHAT I SAY.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Larkonis Trassler
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2009.01.02 05:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Al Drevika Just change the rules to let any of us "carebears" to shoot low standing ships and pods without Concord intervention (since we're doing the job they fail to do). The howls of "unfair" would be music to my ears, and I would drink pie tears until I could drink no more.
You can Calm Your Passion |
Khemul Zula
Amarr Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.01.02 06:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler
Originally by: Al Drevika Just change the rules to let any of us "carebears" to shoot low standing ships and pods without Concord intervention (since we're doing the job they fail to do). The howls of "unfair" would be music to my ears, and I would drink pie tears until I could drink no more.
You can
Quiet you! Don't let him in on the secret.
------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. |
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 06:07:00 -
[11]
Of course, that's assuming the chicken wouldn't run away. The idea of allowing a -10 status pod to dock at a station in high sec is pretty silly, too.
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Falcon Troy
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.01.02 06:08:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Falcon Troy on 02/01/2009 06:10:00
Originally by: Al Drevika Limiting? Please.
You have -10 sec with Concord. You freely pop in through the gate in your pod. Concord waves at you and asks if you're having a nice day. You jump into a ship your high-standing alt brought in for you, probably a ship you built from a BPO and have insured for more than you have into it. Find a juicy target, gank it. Alt picks up the cargo. Collect insurance on the ship Concord shot up such that CCP is actually *paying* you to do this. Wash, rinse, repeat.
And you can go back to nullsec and rat to get your standing back (but why bother, -10 really doesn't mean anything since Concord won't shoot pods).
Please, please tell me what is soooo limiting. I would love to hear it. The system is so slanted towards PvPers it's not even funny. Just change the rules to let any of us "carebears" to shoot low standing ships and pods without Concord intervention (since we're doing the job they fail to do). The howls of "unfair" would be music to my ears, and I would drink pie tears until I could drink no more.
Makes sense.
Ironically easy to slip through the cracks as an outlaw in hisec. However, this issue ties all to closely with the ridiculousness of alts...and thats a whole other problem all together. _____________ Hai. |
Drik Drevani
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Posted - 2009.01.02 06:19:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Drik Drevani on 02/01/2009 06:24:09
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler
You can
Liar. Can't pod. Blowing up the ship isn't enough.
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Chaos Breeze
Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.02 06:20:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Chaos Breeze on 02/01/2009 06:20:37 concord dont care about sec status, navy does though and they are already a pain
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 06:22:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Falcon Troy
Ironically easy to slip through the cracks as an outlaw in hisec. However, this issue ties all to closely with the ridiculousness of alts...and thats a whole other problem all together.
If its not alts, it would be corp mates, no difference. Alts just make the inevitable easier. The point is that outlaws should have to pay the price of being locked out of highsec, period. I don't care if they have an alt to buy stuff for them and ship it into lowsec/nullsec. That's fine by me. But once they have a sec status of -5 or below, they should be blasted at the gates, even if they're in a pod (in a pod, all the better, lose those implants). That's the whole point of the OP.
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Falcon Troy
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.01.02 06:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Falcon Troy
Ironically easy to slip through the cracks as an outlaw in hisec. However, this issue ties all to closely with the ridiculousness of alts...and thats a whole other problem all together.
If its not alts, it would be corp mates, no difference. Alts just make the inevitable easier. The point is that outlaws should have to pay the price of being locked out of highsec, period. I don't care if they have an alt to buy stuff for them and ship it into lowsec/nullsec. That's fine by me. But once they have a sec status of -5 or below, they should be blasted at the gates, even if they're in a pod (in a pod, all the better, lose those implants). That's the whole point of the OP.
I never said the problem had an easy solution (or one a all) but that doesn't negate the existence of it. _____________ Hai. |
Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 06:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Falcon Troy
I never said the problem had an easy solution (or one a all) but that doesn't negate the existence of it.
There's actually a number of good suggestions. But CCP has to decide to quit slanting the system in favor of PVPers, first. Some I've heard include:
- No insurance payout for ships destroyed by Concord actions (stop financing SGing) - Allow PKs on -5 sec status and below by anyone - Make taking or destroying player wrecks/loot in high sec a Concord offense (drive down the sec status of the looting alts). - Have gate/station sentry guns open fire on pods
These are all easily rationalized concepts. We're not asking for protections (like insuring our cargoes), just to level the playing field and make low sec standing actually meaningful. That's all.
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
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Posted - 2009.01.02 06:42:00 -
[18]
As soon as NPCs start players podding left and right, should CONCORD stop outlaw pods from entering high sec.
Try it, buddy. Tell me how limited being -10.0 is to your EVE career before you get butthurt about suicide ganking.
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Khemul Zula
Amarr Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.01.02 06:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Al Drevika There's actually a number of good suggestions. But CCP has to decide to quit slanting the system in favor of PVPers, first. Some I've heard include:
Yes, because so many of the changes they have implemented so far have slanted the system in favor of PVPers.
------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. |
Evelgrivion
Ignatium.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 06:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Falcon Troy
I never said the problem had an easy solution (or one a all) but that doesn't negate the existence of it.
There's actually a number of good suggestions. But CCP has to decide to quit slanting the system in favor of PVPers, first. Some I've heard include:
- No insurance payout for ships destroyed by Concord actions (stop financing SGing) - Allow PKs on -5 sec status and below by anyone - Make taking or destroying player wrecks/loot in high sec a Concord offense (drive down the sec status of the looting alts). - Have gate/station sentry guns open fire on pods
These are all easily rationalized concepts. We're not asking for protections (like insuring our cargoes), just to level the playing field and make low sec standing actually meaningful. That's all.
Try actually playing the game from the PVP side of the fence before you suggest changes to the mechanics that would be this 'extreme' to put it nicely.
The degree to which these changes to against the spirit this game was founded on is absurd, and the sheer amount of care bear whine in it is extraordinary. Trying to pass it off as a non-protection request is a blatant lie, as instead of making it impossible for someone to make a living in high-sec space, you're proposing that you make it impossible for anyone with a low sec status to even BE in high-sec.
Please go play another MMO. I don't want PVP-phobics messing up this game more than it already has been for your sakes.
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Arcon Telf
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.02 06:56:00 -
[21]
A successful suicide gank is the result of a massive collaborative effort and near flawless teamwork. The logistics alone would make a mission runner's head spin. With respect, you have no idea what you're talking about.
I, for one, love Eve because CCP has made a game/world where ingenuity (sometimes guile), creativity, and determination are rewarded...if you are willing to take risks.
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Karasuma Akane
Dirty Sexy Pilots
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Posted - 2009.01.02 07:00:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Al Drevika The system is so slanted towards PvPers it's not even funny.
You do realize that Eve is a PvP game, right? ---------- "annoyed trit bars can deliver quite an income"
Originally by: Richard Phallus
Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas damn spies.
Damn counter intelligence officers.
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Chobham
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Posted - 2009.01.02 07:22:00 -
[23]
l2wtzn00b
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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2009.01.02 07:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Al Drevika A sec status of -10 means nothing, other than the inconvenience of having to fly into Jita in a pod and jump into the ship your friend just dropped for you.
Apparently, EVE only allows Concord to scan a pilot's sec status when they come through the gate. Once they are in, they can jump into a ship and Concord won't notice their presence.
Is it me, or is this just dumb, and a loophole that needs to be closed? Hey, if you want to suicide gank me, that's fine, but the security hit you take needs to actually MEAN SOMETHING to you.
CAN I HAVE YOUR STU... NEVERMIND, I'LL JUST GANK YOU FOR IT
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Falcon Troy
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.01.02 07:26:00 -
[25]
I love how making the game even harsher has people screaming carebear whining. Mechanics like removing insurance for ships that are agressive has no bearing on keeping carebears safer. You want to get your ship blown up to kill carebears in hisec? Go for it, but it's absurd that you get your insrance payout, the ship's loot, the km, and the satisfaction of watching a carebear pod warp off. _____________ Hai. |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 07:33:00 -
[26]
…so, basically, you're whining about not knowing that what you ask for already exists? Well… good news for you!
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Larkonis Trassler
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2009.01.02 07:59:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 02/01/2009 08:02:34
Originally by: Al Drevika
There's actually a number of good suggestions. But CCP has to decide to quit slanting the system in favor of PVPers, first. Some I've heard include:
- No insurance payout for ships destroyed by Concord actions (stop financing SGing)
This was originally suggested but CCP went with the increased Concord response time to aid all the carebear noobs who pop wrecks in missions and stuff.
Quote:
- Allow PKs on -5 sec status and below by anyone
You can, even pods.
Quote:
- Make taking or destroying player wrecks/loot in high sec a Concord offense (drive down the sec status of the looting alts).
Lol
Quote: - Have gate/station sentry guns open fire on pods
DIAF Seriously
Quote:
These are all easily rationalized concepts. We're not asking for protections (like insuring our cargoes), just to level the playing field and make low sec standing actually meaningful. That's all.
The playing field is level.
Don't AFK Haul Lest you take a fool Don't AFK Mine You'll be fine Fit a tank Avoid the gank! Calm Your Passion |
Scarlet Pimpdaddy
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Posted - 2009.01.02 08:09:00 -
[28]
I have never suicide ganked before but reading your post I would really like to give it a try... on you.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.01.02 08:16:00 -
[29]
Sign my petition for Concord to be able to pod -5.0 players. Come on CCP less pirates in highsec means less lag.
/sign
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Cown
Caldari Laughing Leprechauns Corporation Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.02 08:19:00 -
[30]
Concord only interacts when a player does something illegal. A -10 character will not be engaged by Concord if he's not agressed. Only Navy Police will show up and they will scramble him. But since this game seems to have some fairness, the Navy NPC's have a locking time and furthermore, you are able to run from the Navies with stabs fitted (you'll need lots though). As soon as a -10 character agresses (attacks someone) he will be punished like everyone else in the game, by Concord. With the latest new patches the response time has actually doubled and the Concord frigs + cruisers will insta jam, web, neut you to death, while the battleships will pew pew for well over 30K damage.
I dont see any problems with the currently security system.
--------------------------------------------------
Welcome to my personal opinion, if you don't like it, i don't give a s***. :-) |
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Solostrom
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Posted - 2009.01.02 08:20:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Al Drevika Find a juicy target, gank it. Alt picks up the cargo.
Plz... stop your crying and...
STOP BEING THE JUICY TARGET YOU IDIOT!
They do it in Jita because they can find morons like you!
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 08:20:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Tippia on 02/01/2009 08:21:28
Originally by: Trader20 Sign my petition for Concord to be able to pod -5.0 players. Come on CCP less pirates in highsec means less lag.
Only if all NPCs started to pod their enemies… Come on, CCP. Fewer mission runners in means less lag.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Scott Ryder
Amarr Dark Skullz Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.02 08:51:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Karasuma Akane
Originally by: Al Drevika The system is so slanted towards PvPers it's not even funny.
You do realize that Eve is a PvP game, right?
I pvp. I just dont take the sec hits for it. You do realize there is a difference between pvp and pirate? I think its only fair that low sec status gets a bit more meaningful and punishing. aka no docking, shot on sight in a ship etc..
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2009.01.02 09:58:00 -
[34]
Concord should podkill anyone at -10.
Delenda est achura. |
Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.02 10:24:00 -
[35]
suicide gankers are reducing lag not incresing it :D
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.01.02 10:52:00 -
[36]
"Boarding this ship will notify CONCORD of your activity. Are you sure you want to do this?"
"Docking request denied. You are a wanted criminal!"
"Boarding this ship will notify the faction police of your activities. Are you sure you want to do this?"
"Docking request denied. You are a an enemy of the state!"
...and suddenly actions bear much more consequence.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 10:59:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Abrazzar "Boarding this ship will notify CONCORD of your activity. Are you sure you want to do this?"
"Docking request denied. You are a wanted criminal!"
"Boarding this ship will notify the faction police of your activities. Are you sure you want to do this?"
"Docking request denied. You are a an enemy of the state!"
...and suddenly actions bear much more consequence.
What about the consequences for the action of AFKing with valuable cargo?
Jesus christ, you just GOT a massive suicide gank nerf 3 months ago, and you're ALREAY asking for more. As I and others predicted by the way.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:01:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Malcanis on 02/01/2009 11:02:58
Originally by: Falcon Troy I love how making the game even harsher has people screaming carebear whining. Mechanics like removing insurance for ships that are agressive has no bearing on keeping carebears safer. You want to get your ship blown up to kill carebears in hisec? Go for it, but it's absurd that you get your insrance payout, the ship's loot, the km, and the satisfaction of watching a carebear pod warp off.
I love how whiney carebears think that demanding even more NPC protection is "making the game harsher".
Were you one of those kids whose mom abused the ref for allowing "unfairness" whenever your junior soccer league team lost a game?
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Squably
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:02:00 -
[39]
sob sob nag nag, buy a new ship n go on Signature removed. Please do not imply profanity in your signature. Navigator
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Amein Talier
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:03:00 -
[40]
Failtroll is fail; except that everyone is still responding to the thread :/
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MongWen
Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:04:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Cown Concord only interacts when a player does something illegal. A -10 character will not be engaged by Concord if he's not agressed. Only Navy Police will show up and they will scramble him. But since this game seems to have some fairness, the Navy NPC's have a locking time and furthermore, you are able to run from the Navies with stabs fitted (you'll need lots though). As soon as a -10 character agresses (attacks someone) he will be punished like everyone else in the game, by Concord. With the latest new patches the response time has actually doubled and the Concord frigs + cruisers will insta jam, web, neut you to death, while the battleships will pew pew for well over 30K damage.
I dont see any problems with the currently security system.
Last time i looked with my -8.(someting) alt, they do not scram anymore, tho they do alot of dps.
------------------
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MongWen
Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:06:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Wendat Huron Concord should podkill anyone at -10.
Pirate NPC's should do the same against their -10 aswell.
------------------
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Laiyna
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:12:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Laiyna on 02/01/2009 11:12:40
Originally by: MongWen
Originally by: Wendat Huron Concord should podkill anyone at -10.
NPC's should do the same against their -10 aswell.
signed on both.
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Whineroy
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:19:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Malcanis
I love how whiney carebears think that demanding even more NPC protection is "making the game harsher".
Were you one of those kids whose mom abused the ref for allowing "unfairness" whenever your junior soccer league team lost a game?
And I love seeing yet again how ganker nerds prove themselves to be sad hypocritical losers pretending to be big and bad tough guys from behind safety of computer screen. Perhaps if player bounty system really worked and bounties were a real hindrance instead of source of nerdy-loser pride, then people wouldn't be asking for additional NPC protection.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:27:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Whineroy
Originally by: Malcanis
I love how whiney carebears think that demanding even more NPC protection is "making the game harsher".
Were you one of those kids whose mom abused the ref for allowing "unfairness" whenever your junior soccer league team lost a game?
And I love seeing yet again how ganker nerds prove themselves to be sad hypocritical losers pretending to be big and bad tough guys from behind safety of computer screen. Perhaps if player bounty system really worked and bounties were a real hindrance instead of source of nerdy-loser pride, then people wouldn't be asking for additional NPC protection.
The difference is that pirates want players to be in control, while bears want NPCs to limit players actions. Pirates would propably prefer systems, that allowed and encouraged players to secure themselves instead of more NPC hand holding.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Whineroy
Originally by: Malcanis
I love how whiney carebears think that demanding even more NPC protection is "making the game harsher".
Were you one of those kids whose mom abused the ref for allowing "unfairness" whenever your junior soccer league team lost a game?
And I love seeing yet again how ganker nerds prove themselves to be sad hypocritical losers pretending to be big and bad tough guys from behind safety of computer screen. Perhaps if player bounty system really worked and bounties were a real hindrance instead of source of nerdy-loser pride, then people wouldn't be asking for additional NPC protection.
Perhaps you've missed that the "whiney ganker nerds" have been asking - pleading - for a decent bounty system for years.
If a working bounty system is what you want - and I 100% agree that there needs to be one - then ask for that, don't ask for yet more rules and restrictions against PvP in a PvP game.
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Chobham
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:35:00 -
[47]
Seriously, how do you get suicide ganked? Unless they know you're coming (courier mission) if you WTZ there is pretty much no way to get killed outside of crazy 1 in a million occurrences. You're either too small to lock before you're in warp or you're too big to kill before they get concorded.
The only people that are complaining about it are the afkers using autopilot. As a suicide ganker who learned from others, that's really the only people they target, the swarms of idiots in indies that move at 100m/s 10k from the gate that give you an eternity to scan their cargo before engaging and are usually fit with speed increasing mods to help auto piloting and die in 5 seconds.
These people deserve to die, the gankers are doing everyone a favor and getting rid of the downy people. Just like idiots who fall for jita scams deserve to lose their money.
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Grunanca
Mean Corp Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:40:00 -
[48]
Well, I agree with the op IF we -5 or lower can deploy warp bubbles in low sec, which only works on people with -4.9 or higher status. Then it will all be fair. Npcs doing the bearwork, pirates doing their own work as always, just more effeciently.
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Clueless Noobness
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:40:00 -
[49]
Just get rid of insurance completely or at least limit it to t1 frigs and cruisers. Insurance is nice feature for a truly new player to help get by the first couple of weeks. After that it just skews too many things.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:44:00 -
[50]
Only place where you can actually see haulers with some real loot is hi sec. Pirates want to attack haulers with loot. If you attack hauler in hi sec your ship will be blown up by wtfpwning police.
Houston we have a problem. Our pirating game mechnics doesn't work. At all.
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Vanzatoarea
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:56:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Originally by: Whineroy
Originally by: Malcanis
I love how whiney carebears think that demanding even more NPC protection is "making the game harsher".
Were you one of those kids whose mom abused the ref for allowing "unfairness" whenever your junior soccer league team lost a game?
And I love seeing yet again how ganker nerds prove themselves to be sad hypocritical losers pretending to be big and bad tough guys from behind safety of computer screen. Perhaps if player bounty system really worked and bounties were a real hindrance instead of source of nerdy-loser pride, then people wouldn't be asking for additional NPC protection.
The difference is that pirates want players to be in control, while bears want NPCs to limit players actions. Pirates would propably prefer systems, that allowed and encouraged players to secure themselves instead of more NPC hand holding.
/signed!
Concord makes no sense allready.....and still they want more They wanna play normal citizen , common folk , they pray for NPC`s to guide them and protect them
Wake up! Pod pilots are allmoast god-like compared to your average joe , Pod pilots run empires that could rival and probably obliterate the generally accepted empires (Amarr , Caldari...) , each Pod pilot can potentially slaughter an entire fleet of standard ships...the universe belongs to you you just need to reach out and make a name and a destiny for yourself....and what do you do....you run away terrified at the posibilities ahead and whine like a baby...you dont want a destiny...you dont want a name , you just want to be another nameless pile of goo with no more freedom then the next NPC , cursed to grind away endlesly the same mind-numbing booring content...
But what`s even worse is...you cant be a contempt pile of pixel goo along with the other 11 mill of you in worlds made especially for you , you need to come to new eden and whine your way to brain-dead status , and in the process ruin the game for everyone else . Thus we have the ridiculous concept of invincible Concord...where pod pilots can potentially rule the universe...they cant do crap against a pair of god-mode elf-piloted lvl 80 deathknight battleships...and still you want more
Just please tell me why the hell are you playing EvE anyway if the basic concepts and ideals of EvE are sooo out-of line with what you think is fair
Many people see themselves like "citizens" and concord like "the police"
Really? I mean Concord is maybe more like a NATO thing , where player alliances/corps are more like "nations" and "country`s" . /Me wants to be able to friggin wardec concord...after all they get slaughtered in 0.0 missions every day...
/rant over
OP : I hate you , just get the hell out and back to wow CCP : Thanks for making a game where players have at least some way of defending themselves from the likes of the OP Others : Grief the hell out of them eventually they`ll leave
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.02 12:44:00 -
[52]
The number of people in this thread who are absolutely clueless about outlaw machanics and how highsec works warms my heart to no end. It's good to know that empire huggers aren't getting any smarter.
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Hungo
Minmatar Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 12:55:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Khemul Zula Edited by: Khemul Zula on 02/01/2009 05:16:21 It works fine. Adapt or die. Go back to WoW carebear. <insert other generic flame>
Originally by: Evelgrivion You're right; people with -10 shouldn't have to bother with the pod part, and be allowed to go anywhere they want - without any protection from Concord.
Sound fair to you?
Signed. This thread is now about why this should be implemented.
Hey asswipe, you do know people who give this *adapt or go back to wow* speech usualy play wow themselves?
Lets make one thing clear, just because sumon thinks summit is unfair doesnt give you the right top troll them, grow up
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Taelech
Caldari Caldari Design and Cryogenics
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 13:14:00 -
[54]
Maybe OP is a troll, but here is my take.
I'm a carebear, a roid mining, mission running, 0.0 avoiding (usually) empire hugger. I like the fact that people can attack in hisec. Suicide Ganking is a calculated action. If it were not, then it would only occur for 'instructional' purposes (teaching noobs lessons.) I don't want Concord to be my bodyguard. I want to have to fit my ship for defense, if Concord provided that I would have never learned how to tank. Adversity makes us learn new things. That is adaptation. Do it and succeed, don't and fail. Either, way have fun, that's the point.
Taelech - Professor emeritus - Caldari Business Tribunal School of Law
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adamantinesteel
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Posted - 2009.01.02 13:31:00 -
[55]
you want to make it fair... Then let us PVPers fly those WTFPWN ships the concord flies. :) then it would be fair. :)
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Khemul Zula
Amarr Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.01.02 14:24:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Hungo
Originally by: Khemul Zula Edited by: Khemul Zula on 02/01/2009 05:16:21 It works fine. Adapt or die. Go back to WoW carebear. <insert other generic flame>
Originally by: Evelgrivion You're right; people with -10 shouldn't have to bother with the pod part, and be allowed to go anywhere they want - without any protection from Concord.
Sound fair to you?
Signed. This thread is now about why this should be implemented.
Hey asswipe, you do know people who give this *adapt or go back to wow* speech usualy play wow themselves?
Lets make one thing clear, just because sumon thinks summit is unfair doesnt give you the right top troll them, grow up
That actually made me laugh for real. Thanks.
Originally by: adamantinesteel you want to make it fair... Then let us PVPers fly those WTFPWN ships the concord flies. :) then it would be fair. :)
Dude, your body!
------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. |
Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:15:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 02/01/2009 08:02:34
Originally by: Al Drevika
There's actually a number of good suggestions. But CCP has to decide to quit slanting the system in favor of PVPers, first. Some I've heard include:
- No insurance payout for ships destroyed by Concord actions (stop financing SGing)
This was originally suggested but CCP went with the increased Concord response time to aid all the carebear noobs who pop wrecks in missions and stuff.
Quote:
- Allow PKs on -5 sec status and below by anyone
You can, even pods.
Quote:
- Make taking or destroying player wrecks/loot in high sec a Concord offense (drive down the sec status of the looting alts).
Lol
Quote: - Have gate/station sentry guns open fire on pods
DIAF Seriously
Quote:
These are all easily rationalized concepts. We're not asking for protections (like insuring our cargoes), just to level the playing field and make low sec standing actually meaningful. That's all.
\
1. Podkills are not allowed for -5 sec (without penalty). Two representatives of CCP said so. Get a clue.
The point is not AFK hauling. I can be right at my keyboard, and come in with some juicy cargo. It takes 5 seconds to scan me down, and less to lock and scram me. By the time Concord arrives, my indy is toast, no matter how well I tank it (indy's just aren't built for that). There is no countermeasure to suicide ganking in high sec space. That's what sec status was supposed to do- provide a penalty. But no, CCP has bent over backwards to provide pvpers with more targets.
And I reject the claim that EVE is a pvp game only. Why have economists on staff for a pvp game? That's an idiotic claim.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:20:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Whineroy
Originally by: Malcanis
I love how whiney carebears think that demanding even more NPC protection is "making the game harsher".
Were you one of those kids whose mom abused the ref for allowing "unfairness" whenever your junior soccer league team lost a game?
And I love seeing yet again how ganker nerds prove themselves to be sad hypocritical losers pretending to be big and bad tough guys from behind safety of computer screen. Perhaps if player bounty system really worked and bounties were a real hindrance instead of source of nerdy-loser pride, then people wouldn't be asking for additional NPC protection.
Perhaps you've missed that the "whiney ganker nerds" have been asking - pleading - for a decent bounty system for years.
If a working bounty system is what you want - and I 100% agree that there needs to be one - then ask for that, don't ask for yet more rules and restrictions against PvP in a PvP game.
Sure, I'd be happy with a working bounty system, too. I've been behind that for a long time. I guess I've just given up since it's been rejected for years.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:36:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Sure, I'd be happy with a working bounty system, too. I've been behind that for a long time. I guess I've just given up since it's been rejected for years.
Meanwhile there is a highly efficient exploit to avoid being suicide ganked. Don't spread it around or you'll pretty much eliminate a legitimate profession in EvE, but not going AFK is an almost perfect defence. If anyone asks, I didn't tell you, OK?
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Spurty
Caldari Technologic Dance
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:38:00 -
[60]
leave it as is but make locking pods easier ..even with 2000+ sensor strength, pods get away too easy if their client doesn't lock the controls.
I'd be happy to go collect their bounties after popping their flashy red bs with my own alts + main to out dps, gun and tank them into a free lunch.
I'd like to collect their bounties, not have concord / faction cops collecting thanks To make a mistake is Human. To make a REALLY BIG mistake, takes a computer |
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RedSplat
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:39:00 -
[61]
OP no offence but i wish people like you didnt play eve, or rather that you stopped trying to warp it into an ice cream and rainbows hug fest.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:45:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Al Drevika
Sure, I'd be happy with a working bounty system, too. I've been behind that for a long time. I guess I've just given up since it's been rejected for years.
Meanwhile there is a highly efficient exploit to avoid being suicide ganked. Don't spread it around or you'll pretty much eliminate a legitimate profession in EvE, but not going AFK is an almost perfect defence. If anyone asks, I didn't tell you, OK?
If you actually read the thread or just used your brain cells, you'd realize it doesn't take a hauler in Jita being afk to be a target. Cargo scanning takes 5 seconds. Locking on and scramming is only a few seconds more. Try turning a hauler with three cargo expanders, it's more than enough time.
So, STFU until you actually think things through.
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maCH'EttE
Counter Errorist Unit
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:49:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Al Drevika Podkills are not allowed for -5 sec (without penalty). Two representatives of CCP said so. Get a clue.
Players with -5 sec are outlaw and can be podded.
Originally by: Al Drevika ...my indy is toast, no matter how well I tank it (indy's just aren't built for that). There is no countermeasure to suicide ganking in high sec space.
Check 'Transport Ships' on the market.
Originally by: Devil Hanzo (ISD) I got pwned!
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Al Drevika
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 15:49:00 -
[64]
Originally by: RedSplat OP no offence but i wish people like you didnt play eve, or rather that you stopped trying to warp it into an ice cream and rainbows hug fest.
Wanting a working sec status or bounty system to return balance is hardly what you describe. I've been proposing real solutions here, it's the gank-babies that are whining and offer nothing to the discussion other than whining about how their way of life would be changed, that it might actually get harder for them to find targets, and how it's "their game anyway." If they day ever comes that CCP returns balance, there will be a deluge of tears.
YOU FAIL. All of you ganking whiners.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:57:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Laiyna Edited by: Laiyna on 02/01/2009 11:12:40
Originally by: MongWen
Originally by: Wendat Huron Concord should podkill anyone at -10.
Pirate NPC's should do the same against their -10 aswell.
signed on both.
Yeah! Im up for this!
SIGNED
How about it carebears? Does your LOGICAL INNIT extensions of concord powers also apply to the npc pirates youf fight again and again and again and again in your missions?
I always thought it strange that rats with descriptions suches as "Threat Level: Deadly - One of the most feared killers of the galaxy (blah blah blah)" would stop shooting mission runners/ratters when they were in their pod! Some sort of evil guilt trip or something?
Lets get these pirates podding mission runners and ratters! It makes total sense. Also to balance this lets have concord podding -10 pilots.
SKUNK
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Army of One
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:57:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue The difference is that pirates want players to be in control, while bears want NPCs to limit players actions. Pirates would propably prefer systems, that allowed and encouraged players to secure themselves instead of more NPC hand holding.
This. Current mechanics are fine - avoiding pirates in highsec is very, very easy already as long as you wake up, pay attention, and make some attempt at dealing with said pirates.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 16:01:00 -
[67]
Originally by: maCH'EttE
Originally by: Al Drevika Podkills are not allowed for -5 sec (without penalty). Two representatives of CCP said so. Get a clue.
Players with -5 sec are outlaw and can be podded.
Originally by: Al Drevika ...my indy is toast, no matter how well I tank it (indy's just aren't built for that). There is no countermeasure to suicide ganking in high sec space.
Check 'Transport Ships' on the market.
I never thought of having to use a transport ship in high sec space, but true, that would fit two web scrams with the expanders (and the Bustard has the extra warp strength anyway, if I recall). I can afford, but it's out of the price range of a lot of people hauling. Something like 100 mil for the ship and skill book, I think.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 16:03:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 02/01/2009 16:00:20
Originally by: Laiyna Edited by: Laiyna on 02/01/2009 11:12:40
Originally by: MongWen
Originally by: Wendat Huron Concord should podkill anyone at -10.
Pirate NPC's should do the same against their -10 aswell.
signed on both.
Yeah! Im up for this!
SIGNED
How about it carebears? Does your LOGICAL INNIT extensions of concord powers also apply to the npc pirates youf fight again and again and again and again in your missions?
I always thought it strange that rats with descriptions suches as "Threat Level: Deadly - One of the most feared killers of the galaxy (blah blah blah)" would stop shooting mission runners/ratters when they were in their pod! Some sort of evil guilt trip or something?
Also they dont even loot the players bloody wreck! What sort of pirates are these nubs!!!
Lets get these pirates podding mission runners and ratters! It makes total sense. Also to balance this lets have concord podding -10 pilots.
SKUNK
Sure, I would have no problem with that. Honestly. It would make mission running more interesting (not so much to me- I have more isk in my ship than in my implants).
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.02 16:04:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Kessiaan
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue The difference is that pirates want players to be in control, while bears want NPCs to limit players actions. Pirates would propably prefer systems, that allowed and encouraged players to secure themselves instead of more NPC hand holding.
This. Current mechanics are fine - avoiding pirates in highsec is very, very easy already as long as you wake up, pay attention, and make some attempt at dealing with said pirates.
Indeed - actually sitting at the keyboard and playing the game would have ensured the OPs ship and cargo got safely to its destination.
He chose to go and watch TV whilst his ship was being automatically piloted. This gives the advantage to a player who was actualy sat playing the game. Dosent take a genius to work this out.
SKUNK
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
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Peter Wheatstraw
Gallente Odyssey SDC
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 16:05:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Peter Wheatstraw on 02/01/2009 16:06:16 The only thing I see "wrong" with the current game mechanic vis-a-vis suicide ganking is the insurance payout.
My suggestion is, roll-back the Concord response buff to what it used to be, and instead, alter the insurance payout to be commensurate with the sec status of the offender, to a percentage of the whole payout based on sec status, e.g., sec status -2.0 ins payoff of 80% of face value, -5.0 ins payoff is 50% of face value, -7.0 is 30% of face value, -10.0 is 0% of face value, etc..
And before someone pipes up and says it, no, there is no "bonus" payout for positive sec status......+5.0 gets you the same as 0.0 .... 100% of face value. Problem solved, no?
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BruisedMoon
Amarr Power Seed Enterprises A.X.I.S
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Posted - 2009.01.02 16:13:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Falcon Troy
I never said the problem had an easy solution (or one a all) but that doesn't negate the existence of it.
There's actually a number of good suggestions. But CCP has to decide to quit slanting the system in favor of PVPers, first. Some I've heard include:
- No insurance payout for ships destroyed by Concord actions (stop financing SGing) - Allow PKs on -5 sec status and below by anyone - Make taking or destroying player wrecks/loot in high sec a Concord offense (drive down the sec status of the looting alts). - Have gate/station sentry guns open fire on pods
These are all easily rationalized concepts. We're not asking for protections (like insuring our cargoes), just to level the playing field and make low sec standing actually meaningful. That's all.
Until I see you at -10.0, you need to stfu and gtfo....
Seriously dude, its not as easy as it sounds, or it looks.. Most of the -10s that you see in high sec have an idea of what they are doing.
Your so freaking ******ed (in game) its pathetic! This game was met for pvpers, if you want a carebear friendly game play something else, I hear Disney has a new fairy game out... my friends sister was telling me about it the other day, I bet that would be perfect for you.. no suicide ganking in that!
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F4LC0N
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Posted - 2009.01.02 16:17:00 -
[72]
maybe you want to protect your hauler with a logistics ship it usualy takes less time to target and remote shield or armor boost or us a blackbird or other ecm ship to jam the attacker then to target, scan, decide if it is worth it and kill the hauler. you're just to lazy to use the stuff you can to protect your hauler.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 16:34:00 -
[73]
Originally by: F4LC0N maybe you want to protect your hauler with a logistics ship it usualy takes less time to target and remote shield or armor boost or us a blackbird or other ecm ship to jam the attacker then to target, scan, decide if it is worth it and kill the hauler. you're just to lazy to use the stuff you can to protect your hauler.
The solution is to run an alt? You must work for CCP then. There are better and more reasonable fixes than handing CCP another $12/month.
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Hebik Fane
The Ginger Stepkids
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Posted - 2009.01.02 16:43:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: F4LC0N maybe you want to protect your hauler with a logistics ship it usualy takes less time to target and remote shield or armor boost or us a blackbird or other ecm ship to jam the attacker then to target, scan, decide if it is worth it and kill the hauler. you're just to lazy to use the stuff you can to protect your hauler.
The solution is to run an alt? You must work for CCP then. There are better and more reasonable fixes than handing CCP another $12/month.
Or in a game with 100s of thousands of other people playing along with you, you could, you know, ask a friend.
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BruisedMoon
Amarr Power Seed Enterprises A.X.I.S
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Posted - 2009.01.02 16:56:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Hebik Fane
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: F4LC0N maybe you want to protect your hauler with a logistics ship it usualy takes less time to target and remote shield or armor boost or us a blackbird or other ecm ship to jam the attacker then to target, scan, decide if it is worth it and kill the hauler. you're just to lazy to use the stuff you can to protect your hauler.
The solution is to run an alt? You must work for CCP then. There are better and more reasonable fixes than handing CCP another $12/month.
Or in a game with 100s of thousands of other people playing along with you, you could, you know, ask a friend.
Don't be silly, we can all tell that this dude doesn't have any friends!
So yes get an alt!
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Sniper Wolf18
Gallente Apocalypse Ponies
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Posted - 2009.01.02 17:18:00 -
[76]
I've suicide ganked, i've been suicide ganked (my own dumbass fault) and since that time i've not been ganked since. Learn from your mistakes, buy an orca (the nigh invunerable hi-sec hauler). Or just fly a hauler and dont be a dumbass. By the way, does it annoy you when you didnt realise that you were reading my sig? |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:32:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Al Drevika
Sure, I'd be happy with a working bounty system, too. I've been behind that for a long time. I guess I've just given up since it's been rejected for years.
Meanwhile there is a highly efficient exploit to avoid being suicide ganked. Don't spread it around or you'll pretty much eliminate a legitimate profession in EvE, but not going AFK is an almost perfect defence. If anyone asks, I didn't tell you, OK?
If you actually read the thread or just used your brain cells, you'd realize it doesn't take a hauler in Jita being afk to be a target. Cargo scanning takes 5 seconds. Locking on and scramming is only a few seconds more. Try turning a hauler with three cargo expanders, it's more than enough time.
So, STFU until you actually think things through.
Perhaps you'd like to explain then why every single time someone complains about being suicide ganked it always turns out that they were AFK...?
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Gambuk
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:33:00 -
[78]
Pod killing -10s? I mean come on people.
I am at about -7. I became -7 by mainly fighting people WHO WERE OUT LOOKING FOR FIGHTS.
I just happened to do in in .1-.4 sec, so I took security hits. Why do I take security hits on lower-sec? I'm not exactly sure, but now im a "Fugitive" because I attack people cruising around in PVP fitted frigs/cruisers/BC's.
I have ganked the occasional miner/carebear travelling into lowsec, but like everyone knows, Concord pops me if I attacked anyone in .5 or above, so I never killed anyone staying in highsec before.
They came into my "pvp" territory, and got PVP'd. Why should I be punished more than I already am?
I dont suicide gank. I travel to highsec sometimes for equipment/ships. Whats the problem?
Seriously... I'd say -6 of my sec status is from killing PVPers.
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:55:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Al Drevika
If you actually read the thread or just used your brain cells, you'd realize it doesn't take a hauler in Jita being afk to be a target. Cargo scanning takes 5 seconds. Locking on and scramming is only a few seconds more. Try turning a hauler with three cargo expanders, it's more than enough time.
So, STFU until you actually think things through.
You are invulnerable for 30 seconds. Make an undock bookmark with a mwd'd frig if you know you're carrying important cargo. Immediately warp to the bookmark while still under invulnerability timer. Turn around in the safespot and carry on.
If you're carrying something valuable in a t1 hauler, then you need to rethink your business plan.
_______________ Pwett Founder <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Strel Samodelkin
Caldari Nationalist Party
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:59:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Falcon Troy
I never said the problem had an easy solution (or one a all) but that doesn't negate the existence of it.
There's actually a number of good suggestions. But CCP has to decide to quit slanting the system in favor of PVPers, first. Some I've heard include:
- No insurance payout for ships destroyed by Concord actions (stop financing SGing) - Allow PKs on -5 sec status and below by anyone - Make taking or destroying player wrecks/loot in high sec a Concord offense (drive down the sec status of the looting alts). - Have gate/station sentry guns open fire on pods
These are all easily rationalized concepts. We're not asking for protections (like insuring our cargoes), just to level the playing field and make low sec standing actually meaningful. That's all.
That is the best idea there. Players with low sec standing should be KoS to EVERY high sec status player, AND killing them should even raise your sec status a bit. They're pirates, wanted by the law, why can't we fire on them?
Caldari Nationalist Party |
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F4LC0N
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 18:05:00 -
[81]
there are many ways to avoid most situations you just have to figure them out.
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F4LC0N
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 18:08:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Strel Samodelkin
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Falcon Troy
I never said the problem had an easy solution (or one a all) but that doesn't negate the existence of it.
There's actually a number of good suggestions. But CCP has to decide to quit slanting the system in favor of PVPers, first. Some I've heard include:
- No insurance payout for ships destroyed by Concord actions (stop financing SGing) - Allow PKs on -5 sec status and below by anyone - Make taking or destroying player wrecks/loot in high sec a Concord offense (drive down the sec status of the looting alts). - Have gate/station sentry guns open fire on pods
These are all easily rationalized concepts. We're not asking for protections (like insuring our cargoes), just to level the playing field and make low sec standing actually meaningful. That's all.
That is the best idea there. Players with low sec standing should be KoS to EVERY high sec status player, AND killing them should even raise your sec status a bit. They're pirates, wanted by the law, why can't we fire on them?
you already can shoot anyone flashing which you start when you're -5 so where's the problem?
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.02 18:11:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Strel Samodelkin
That is the best idea there. Players with low sec standing should be KoS to EVERY high sec status player, AND killing them should even raise your sec status a bit. They're pirates, wanted by the law, why can't we fire on them?
This is totally unacceptable. Why should people be able to fire on and pod kill outlaws!! ITs disgusting. CCP would never implement this!!!!
SKUNK
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
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F4LC0N
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 18:14:00 -
[84]
why do we have high sec systems anyway?
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Xtreem
Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 18:25:00 -
[85]
people with -10 should still be aloud to enter all hi sec, in any ship, same rules apply if they agro - concord whip them, however when -10 in empire anyone can shoot them, and they can shoot back ofc without concord.
even if they could bring ships in they cant do any damage to people unless they fire first and would make high sec alot more risky for them now rather than scooting along in pods :)
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Blastil
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 18:34:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Al Drevika
There's actually a number of good suggestions. But CCP has to decide to quit slanting the system in favor of PVPers, first. Some I've heard include:
- No insurance payout for ships destroyed by Concord actions (stop financing SGing) - Allow PKs on -5 sec status and below by anyone - Make taking or destroying player wrecks/loot in high sec a Concord offense (drive down the sec status of the looting alts). - Have gate/station sentry guns open fire on pods
These are all easily rationalized concepts. We're not asking for protections (like insuring our cargoes), just to level the playing field and make low sec standing actually meaningful. That's all.
1) Already in place. Concord-related deaths do not pay insurance. 2) Also already in place. All flashy red pods and ships in highsec are shootable. Remember, if it flashes, kill it. 3) You want us to kill Ninja salvage, perhaps the only thing that keeps rig prices depressed so you can play EVE-Offline?? screw you too! 4) It doesn't mater, since pods INSTA WARP before the guns can lock you. This fact alone is how I cruise my interceptors through highsec and can win at EVE, unlike you aparently.
Low security status is ALREADY extreemly gimping. I can't roam through lowsec win a heavy ship thanks to that little number, because I could get trapped in lowsec with a battleship or a battle cruiser, and the fact there is literaly no contiguous lowsec routes between regions (except black rise) forces me to own a hauling alt to get to my destinations. Or PVP in blackrise. Open universe right?
Honestly, if it werent for the fact that trade needs to happen or else my HAC will cost a fortune, I'd rather see all empire space become NPC 0.0 It might actually be safer for you after that.
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2009.01.02 18:41:00 -
[87]
Look at all the PVP noobs crying "wawawa please don't take my easy suicide ganks away cuz I'll have to fight targets that shoot back otherwise" ...
1) Insurance on ships blown up by CONCORD is stupid and must go
2) podding of flashies should be possible everywhere
3) the use of alts to circumvent many game mechanics should be looked at... if it can't be limited, then the mechanics must change to accomodate alt abuse
that's all.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Aerick Dawn
Gallente Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.02 18:44:00 -
[88]
My alt got popped last night in Jita. I blame nobody but myself though. :)
More or less what happened is I was afk. So they had all the time in the world to set it up.
The suiciders were both -10 guys. They must have had alts drop BS's for them. I would assume corp insured. Both BS's were fitted with SB's. They blew my viator up, had about 200mil in stuff in it. All of the valuable stuff exploded too, so they wound up with crap and two blown up bs's.
Dont be afk in Jita, and yeah the mechanics of what they did are gamey, but its in the game..so...Welp.
__________________ If I'm in a fair fight, i've done something terribly wrong. |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.02 18:45:00 -
[89]
Shows just howmuch people know about aggression rules and howmuch they want to gimp their own survivability by making it more specialized.
I'm also surprised noone has said this to the OP, but I'll have a go at it: GO BACK TO WOW!
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Nexus stamps of approvalÖ count: 1
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Blastil
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Posted - 2009.01.02 18:46:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Pan Crastus Look at all the PVP noobs crying "wawawa please don't take my easy suicide ganks away cuz I'll have to fight targets that shoot back otherwise" ...
1) Insurance on ships blown up by CONCORD is stupid and must go
2) podding of flashies should be possible everywhere
3) the use of alts to circumvent many game mechanics should be looked at... if it can't be limited, then the mechanics must change to accomodate alt abuse
that's all.
1) I'm pretty sure this has already been done. If not, its supposed to come with our bounty hunting/PVP buff sometime in the next year. Its a high priority. 2) Already done. You just cant lock us because your in your ****ing CNR. 3) Like logistics ships helping CNR's run level 4's in record times? yeah, totaly unfair man. Alts have always been a part of the game. there really is no such thing as 'alt abuse'.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 18:59:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Gambuk Pod killing -10s? I mean come on people.
I am at about -7. I became -7 by mainly fighting people WHO WERE OUT LOOKING FOR FIGHTS.
I just happened to do in in .1-.4 sec, so I took security hits. Why do I take security hits on lower-sec? I'm not exactly sure, but now im a "Fugitive" because I attack people cruising around in PVP fitted frigs/cruisers/BC's.
Seriously... I'd say -6 of my sec status is from killing PVPers.
And I'll fully agree with you- you shouldn't take sec hits in low sec. I'd fully support that change.
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Live B8t
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:00:00 -
[92]
heres a little convo which you might find funny, i didnt bother to smack or anything but here goes
[ 2009.01.02 04:27:03 ] me > gives what? [ 2009.01.02 04:27:15 ] you know who > you destroyed my freighter [ 2009.01.02 04:27:48 ] me > freighter? you sure it wasnt just a badger mark II? [ 2009.01.02 04:27:58 ] you know who > yes, sorry, badger [ 2009.01.02 04:28:30 ] you know who > are you in league with the courier contractor? [ 2009.01.02 04:28:32 ] me > yeah i did [ 2009.01.02 04:28:34 ] you know who > just curious [ 2009.01.02 04:28:46 ] me > courer? [ 2009.01.02 04:28:48 ] me > no [ 2009.01.02 04:28:55 ] me > saw you tower [ 2009.01.02 04:29:06 ] me > medium tower [ 2009.01.02 04:29:07 ] you know who > tower? [ 2009.01.02 04:29:18 ] me > Destroyed items:1MN MicroWarpdrive IWarp Core Stabilizer I (Cargo)Expanded Cargohold I, Qty: 2Prototype Cloaking Device INanofiber Internal Structure IIPlastic Wrap (Cargo)Caldari Control Tower Medium (In Container) [ 2009.01.02 04:29:44 ] me > 200 mill more than i need [ 2009.01.02 04:29:54 ] me > to do a hit [ 2009.01.02 04:29:56 ] you know who > do you still have that cargo? Dunno what it is worth to you, but my collateral loss is big to me [ 2009.01.02 04:30:21 ] me > as the top shows its destroyed [ 2009.01.02 04:31:02 ] you know who > well, that pretty much screws me for any future cargo hauling [ 2009.01.02 04:31:11 ] you know who > no more collateral [ 2009.01.02 04:31:29 ] you know who > I'm curious- how do you run combat ops in Jita? Doesn't concord shoot on sight? [ 2009.01.02 04:31:45 ] me > yes [ 2009.01.02 04:31:54 ] me > when you shoot some one else [ 2009.01.02 04:32:00 ] you know who > do you deploy from an orca or something? [ 2009.01.02 04:32:44 ] me > a fitted bs wont fit in an orca which is to bad [ 2009.01.02 04:32:56 ] you know who > Well, it's going to take me months to get back there- I don't buy GTCs, I do things like god intended, [ 2009.01.02 04:34:32 ] me > well to bad, all i can say is dont go afk when hauling your only safe in a station [ 2009.01.02 04:35:19 ] you know who > I'm just trying to figure out how it was done- was there a rule change that allows this? I just rejoined after being inactive for about a year and a half [ 2009.01.02 04:36:21 ] me > :) this has always been allowed
ebay anyone?
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:01:00 -
[93]
Originally by: F4LC0N
Originally by: Strel Samodelkin
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Falcon Troy
That is the best idea there. Players with low sec standing should be KoS to EVERY high sec status player, AND killing them should even raise your sec status a bit. They're pirates, wanted by the law, why can't we fire on them?
you already can shoot anyone flashing which you start when you're -5 so where's the problem?
He said "killing them" not "destroying their heavily insured ship." We're talkign PKs. And yes, I'll say for the record again, if that means letting NPC rats pod me in missions, I'm all for it.
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Live B8t
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:06:00 -
[94]
Originally by: F4LC0N
He said "killing them" not "destroying their heavily insured ship." We're talkign PKs. And yes, I'll say for the record again, if that means letting NPC rats pod me in missions, I'm all for it.
read the ****ing rules already YOU ARE VERY MUCH ALLOWED TO POD YES PODKILL ANY -5 AND BELOW IN HIGHSEC!!!111!!1!
im very serious i speak in CAPS
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:16:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Blastil
Originally by: Al Drevika
There's actually a number of good suggestions. But CCP has to decide to quit slanting the system in favor of PVPers, first. Some I've heard include:
- No insurance payout for ships destroyed by Concord actions (stop financing SGing) - Allow PKs on -5 sec status and below by anyone - Make taking or destroying player wrecks/loot in high sec a Concord offense (drive down the sec status of the looting alts). - Have gate/station sentry guns open fire on pods
These are all easily rationalized concepts. We're not asking for protections (like insuring our cargoes), just to level the playing field and make low sec standing actually meaningful. That's all.
3) You want us to kill Ninja salvage, perhaps the only thing that keeps rig prices depressed so you can play EVE-Offline?? screw you too!
Low security status is ALREADY extreemly gimping. I can't roam through lowsec win a heavy ship thanks to that little number, because I could get trapped in lowsec with a battleship or a battle cruiser, and the fact there is literaly no contiguous lowsec routes between regions (except black rise) forces me to own a hauling alt to get to my destinations. Or PVP in blackrise. Open universe right?
Honestly, if it werent for the fact that trade needs to happen or else my HAC will cost a fortune, I'd rather see all empire space become NPC 0.0 It might actually be safer for you after that.
Thanks, for a counter-post with good and well-made points. It's quite refreshing, and I'm glad to hear things a non-hugger would like to see changed. You should have routes between lowsec regions, I agree.
You're right, change 3 would harm ninja salvage, and I'm not in favor of that. I think a lot of it is related to the strange position low sec sits in. I've heard the case made that there should be empire and nullsec and nothing inbetween, with strong lines drawn between. I suspect CCP doesn't want the players that divided, which is what would happen, and it would certainly have dramatic changes in the economy.
Look, I'm a reasonable guy. And I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything. There. Flame away. Get it out of your system. Once that's done, just bear in mind that all I wanted to do was have a reasonable discussion about how the law & order rules are imbalanced, nonsensical, and could be amended to keep us players who aren't interested in pvp in the elements of the game we enjoy.
I like EVEs sophisticated economy & production system. There's a lot to explore there. Let me explore it without having to look over my shoulder all the time. I like the fact that there is low sec and PVP because I can make a choice of risk vs. reward.
I have a life and I don't want to spend 12 hours a day in front of my computer watching my screen for aggro when I'm hauling something 47 jumps. I don't play WOW specifically because I hate pushing the "run forward" key until my hand cramps up. I'm glad EVE isn't that stupid. Let's not make it more stupider than it is, and make it a game for more than one kind of player. That's in CCPs best interest, and in the interest of all the players. The more subscribers you have, the more money they have, the better game they can make for all of us.
Otherwise, your claims that this game is for PVPers only will doom the game to that dead end, a game that will stagnate due to the business realities- not enough subscribers, fewer developers, less innovation.
If you disagree with me and think this should be nothing but a PVP game, fine. You and I will never see eye to eye. If you're open to my points, then we can have a rational discussion about what is a good balance to maintain the game for all.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:19:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Live B8t
ebay anyone?
If your implication is that I bought a character on ebay, you're quite wrong. I'd be happy to direct you to the player that brought me into the game, he knows my history well. He can look up the exact day I "gave him my stuff" (not because of any issues with the game- I had lost my job and had to start up a new company from scratch).
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Live B8t
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:27:00 -
[97]
okay for the mildly confused :
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/How_Are_New_Players_Protected_From_Pirates
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/How_Do_I_Avoid_Player_Pirates
they are pretty good reads
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Evelgrivion
Ignatium.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:34:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Live B8t
ebay anyone?
If your implication is that I bought a character on ebay, you're quite wrong. I'd be happy to direct you to the player that brought me into the game, he knows my history well. He can look up the exact day I "gave him my stuff" (not because of any issues with the game- I had lost my job and had to start up a new company from scratch).
There are two possibilities:- Op is a troll.
- The op is oblivious to the concept of context.
Either way, it's head-desk inducing.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:35:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Live B8t Edited by: Live B8t on 02/01/2009 19:15:06
read the ****ing rules already YOU ARE VERY MUCH ALLOWED TO POD YES PODKILL ANY -5 AND BELOW IN HIGHSEC!!!111!!1!
im very serious i speak in CAPS
Well, tell CCP to read the rules, then. That's what they told me- twice.
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Lego Lord
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:42:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Live B8t Edited by: Live B8t on 02/01/2009 19:15:06
read the ****ing rules already YOU ARE VERY MUCH ALLOWED TO POD YES PODKILL ANY -5 AND BELOW IN HIGHSEC!!!111!!1!
im very serious i speak in CAPS
Well, tell CCP to read the rules, then. That's what they told me- twice.
you got trolled by ccp? lol
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Live B8t
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:43:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Live B8t on 02/01/2009 19:44:14
Originally by: Lego Lord
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Live B8t Edited by: Live B8t on 02/01/2009 19:15:06
read the ****ing rules already YOU ARE VERY MUCH ALLOWED TO POD YES PODKILL ANY -5 AND BELOW IN HIGHSEC!!!111!!1!
im very serious i speak in CAPS
Well, tell CCP to read the rules, then. That's what they told me- twice.
you got trolled by ccp? lol
hey be cool if thats what he was told then ccp is defo wrong as shown in the wiki links
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:44:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Live B8t Edited by: Live B8t on 02/01/2009 19:29:37 Edited by: Live B8t on 02/01/2009 19:28:19 okay for the mildly confused :
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/How_Are_New_Players_Protected_From_Pirates http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/How_Do_I_Avoid_Player_Pirates
they are pretty good reads
They are ******ed and misleading. I quote:
"Basing out of a system with a security status above 0.5 should be relatively safe. The most wanted player pirates cannot enter these systems because of their negative security status and therefore there are less risks to be found there. "
FAIL.
The quote then goes on to lightly reference suicide ganking. But a lot of people misread "cannot enter these systems" as a definite. It's not. CCP and Wikis and everyone needs to quit saying that sec status means something. Again, I agree with the pies that they shouldn't take security hits for pvp in low sec space. It's stupid. It would be reasonable to change that rule and have the -10 people unable to enter empire space as outlaws, even in pods. It just makes sense.
To be clear- I don't even mind being suicide ganked by a person with a sec rating above -5. That's your choice to do so. But you should only be able to suicide gank in high space until you hit -5, after that, you've shot your wad and you should be confined to low/null sec. How unreasonable is that?
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Evelgrivion
Ignatium.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:44:00 -
[103]
Allow me to clear up a few facts for everyone still reading this thread.
- Anyone is allowed to shoot at anything at any time.
- Players can kill anyone with -5 security status or less, anywhere, at any time.
- It is not feasible to go anywhere in anything bigger than a frigate if your sec status is too low.
- 0.0 Is nearly the only place that it is feasible to regain security status. with any speed worth considering.
The fact of the matter is that people who ask for the game to babysit them more at the expense of those who are vigilant and are looking to exploit those who aren't paying attention deserved everything they got. It's never been hard to avoid being strategically suicide ganked, so long as the pilot actually does what every person who isn't an empire-hugging carebear does:
PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR SURROUNDINGS!!
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:50:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Live B8t
hey be cool if thats what he was told then ccp is defo wrong as shown in the wiki links
Where in the wiki links does it say it's legal to PK a low sec target? I think you all are misreading what CCP means by "kill rights". Kill rights are the right to blow the ship.
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Myra2007
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:50:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
2) podding of flashies should be possible everywhere
God how stupid are you? Thats already possible you nublet. Good to know though you never actually tried but still complain, moron. --
Originally by: kublai on Ankhesentapemkah That said, the "i'm a girl who plays your computer game and i'm not that ugly" has always been a certain winner in the mmo world
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Myra2007
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:52:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Live B8t
hey be cool if thats what he was told then ccp is defo wrong as shown in the wiki links
Where in the wiki links does it say it's legal to PK a low sec target? I think you all are misreading what CCP means by "kill rights". Kill rights are the right to blow the ship.
And i know you've never actually tried. Otherwise you'd know that -5.0 and lower is free to go (including the pod and without any penalties attached ever). --
Originally by: kublai on Ankhesentapemkah That said, the "i'm a girl who plays your computer game and i'm not that ugly" has always been a certain winner in the mmo world
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MirrorGod
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:55:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Al Drevika The system is so slanted towards PvPers it's not even funny.
And this is why a game such as eve will never suit you. Go back to WoW [center]
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:56:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Live B8t
hey be cool if thats what he was told then ccp is defo wrong as shown in the wiki links
Where in the wiki links does it say it's legal to PK a low sec target? I think you all are misreading what CCP means by "kill rights". Kill rights are the right to blow the ship.
The wiki is in beta, so I would be a bit sceptical about trusting it at this point. The old guide has this:
Security status and travelling restrictions How does my security status affect my ability to travel?
Security status, or lack thereof, can have a big impact on your ability to travel through the EVE universe.
Here is a brief list of your travelling options according to security status:
* Players with -2.0 or worse cannot enter 1.0 systems * Players with -2.5 or worse cannot enter 0.9 systems * Players with -3.0 or worse cannot enter 0.8 systems * Players with -3.5 or worse cannot enter 0.7 systems * Players with -4.0 or worse cannot enter 0.6 systems * Players with -4.5 or worse cannot enter 0.5 systems
Once your security status reaches -5 you are considered an outlaw and can be attacked by players anywhere without CONCORD intervention.
Players with negative ratings can fly through all systems in an Escape Pod, as CONCORD are not quite ruthless enough to attack pods, but if your rating is -5.0 or below then you are easy pickings, as anyone can target and destroy your pod without repercussion.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:57:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Myra2007
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Live B8t
hey be cool if thats what he was told then ccp is defo wrong as shown in the wiki links
Where in the wiki links does it say it's legal to PK a low sec target? I think you all are misreading what CCP means by "kill rights". Kill rights are the right to blow the ship.
And i know you've never actually tried. Otherwise you'd know that -5.0 and lower is free to go (including the pod and without any penalties attached ever).
I'm happy to give it a try- as I said, I'm not a pvper, so I haven't had the opportunity- there's no reason to be nasty . I'm just reiterating what the rules, the wiki, and two online GMs have told me. If that's wrong, they need to fix their documentation.
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Legio Praetor
The Green Machine Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.02 20:00:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx Shows just howmuch people know about aggression rules and howmuch they want to gimp their own survivability by making it more specialized.
I'm also surprised noone has said this to the OP, but I'll have a go at it: GO BACK TO WOW!
<Checks posters corp and alliance>
Yeah... Right...
Anyway, the rules that are put in place will NEVER be good enough for either side. The suicide gankers/griefers will want less rules in place and the carebears more rules. I wish both sides good luck with that... |
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Live B8t
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Posted - 2009.01.02 20:12:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Al Drevika *stuff*
Concord DONT CARE about your security status ONLY navy does
off the wiki page aswell CONCORD hands out retribution, but cannot promise constant protection. High security space is safer, not safe
and if you got different info by a GM well then im SURE YOU gave him faulty info
ex. 1 "mr GM i just got killed in high sec by a -10 arent concord supposed to shoot them" gm - "yes" (context off your question is either to short or lacking as he will refer to you being shot)
ex. 2 "mr GM i just got shot in high sec by a -10 i was under the impression that -5 and below werent allowed in empire thus not being capable of PK'ing" GM - " they are BUT at a very high risk Navy will try and chase them and everyone can shoot at them and their pod AND they will be able to carry out drive by's"
see its all about how you ask the question
Just because you ask a question dosent meen that you asked the right question
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 20:13:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Legio Praetor
Anyway, the rules that are put in place will NEVER be good enough for either side. The suicide gankers/griefers will want less rules in place and the carebears more rules. I wish both sides good luck with that...
I think there's a happy medium. Pies have their issues too, that should be addressed. They're bored and looking for targets. If we had more of a payoff to be in low sec, we'd be there a lot more often. Exchanging no-sec-hit-in-lowsec for less freedom of movement for outlaws in high sec, that's good for all parties.
But, it's becoming clear it's hard to have a rational discussion with the low level of maturity involved. I'll do PVP when my alt is trained up, but I suspect its going to be hard to find a decent corp/gang that isn't living out of their mom's basement.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.02 20:27:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Live B8t
see its all about how you ask the question
Just because you ask a question dosent meen that you asked the right question
The question I asked them had nothing to do with the ganking or CONCORD reaction. I understand quite well the loophole allowing -10 people to fly around in pods. Duh. The question I asked was whether podkilling an outlaw (-5 or less status with CONCORD) would result in Concord action. Both of them said yes.
I don't see how I could be any more clear in my posts. Perhaps try reading them instead of assuming.
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Blastil
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Posted - 2009.01.02 20:31:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Al Drevika Post.
The issue is this- what your asking for has for the most part already been done. The stuff that hasn't been done, hasn't been done because the mechanic your asking for simply doesn't work the way you think it would. High sec ganking is honestly a rare occourance, and could be avoided by going to slower mission hubs, or flying cheeper ships. Or not AFKing it in your hauler (had to learn this the hard way too). Highsec ganking is ONLY a problem for people not paying attention, or failing to recognize the risks involved in the game.
In fact- most gankers are EXACTLY the kind of player you say you want to be. They log in for 2 hours to get a kill, have some laughs, and log off.
This game isn't for PVP, but for player interaction. Honestly, something the mission running concept lacks. This game is about total player control. The fact that you can get a buddy to help if a griefer keeps griefing you is what this game is built on. Every player on an even step. You don't gimp me, and I won't inconvinence you.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.02 20:36:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Legio Praetor
Originally by: Grarr Dexx Shows just howmuch people know about aggression rules and howmuch they want to gimp their own survivability by making it more specialized.
I'm also surprised noone has said this to the OP, but I'll have a go at it: GO BACK TO WOW!
<Checks posters corp and alliance>
Yeah... Right...
Anyway, the rules that are put in place will NEVER be good enough for either side. The suicide gankers/griefers will want less rules in place and the carebears more rules. I wish both sides good luck with that...
Check back in a few hours, wannabe
-----
Nexus stamps of approvalÖ count: 1
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.02 20:41:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Legio Praetor
Anyway, the rules that are put in place will NEVER be good enough for either side. The suicide gankers/griefers will want less rules in place and the carebears more rules. I wish both sides good luck with that...
I think there's a happy medium. Pies have their issues too, that should be addressed. They're bored and looking for targets. If we had more of a payoff to be in low sec, we'd be there a lot more often. Exchanging no-sec-hit-in-lowsec for less freedom of movement for outlaws in high sec, that's good for all parties.
But, it's becoming clear it's hard to have a rational discussion with the low level of maturity involved. I'll do PVP when my alt is trained up, but I suspect its going to be hard to find a decent corp/gang that isn't living out of their mom's basement.
I think this post makes your position very clear.
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Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.02 20:45:00 -
[117]
We should allow players to get a negative status of less than -10. make it -50.
oh and, CONCORD should kill every single T1 industrial carrying more than 200m worth of stuff. And keep the loot, too. -----------------------------------------
Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
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Legio Praetor
The Green Machine Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.02 21:10:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Originally by: Legio Praetor
Originally by: Grarr Dexx Shows just howmuch people know about aggression rules and howmuch they want to gimp their own survivability by making it more specialized.
I'm also surprised noone has said this to the OP, but I'll have a go at it: GO BACK TO WOW!
<Checks posters corp and alliance>
Yeah... Right...
Anyway, the rules that are put in place will NEVER be good enough for either side. The suicide gankers/griefers will want less rules in place and the carebears more rules. I wish both sides good luck with that...
Check back in a few hours, wannabe
Because your wow raid will be over by then?
Originally by: Al Drevika I think there's a happy medium.
Yeah i know and i agree, but there will always be one side claiming they are the ones being hit by <insert random (perceived) CCP nerf>. Its always "omg QQ more nub" from the pirates and "omg keep us safer in our high sec" from the PvE'ers.
Oh and ignore malcanis, hes always been a doorknob about this particular issue.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2009.01.02 21:42:00 -
[119]
I'm a fan of suicide ganking. I like the idea of lazy, AFK-autopiloting, cargo-expanders-for-a-tank dummies getting a wake up call. More power to the villains of Eve imo!
Besides, it's comically easy to avoid suicide ganks IF YOU SIMPLY PLAY THE GAME.
That said, it is a bit stupid that the security hits that are put in place to keep it in check are so easily bypassed. I wouldn't be surprised if CCP nerfed it.
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≡v≡ |
Apoctasy
Carebear Poachers plc
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Posted - 2009.01.02 22:02:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Falcon Troy I love how making the game even harsher has people screaming carebear whining. Mechanics like removing insurance for ships that are agressive has no bearing on keeping carebears safer. You want to get your ship blown up to kill carebears in hisec? Go for it, but it's absurd that you get your insrance payout, the ship's loot, the km, and the satisfaction of watching a carebear pod warp off.
No satisfaction in that
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Bloss0m
Caldari Industrial death
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Posted - 2009.01.02 22:51:00 -
[121]
Players that are flashy have to be let into highsec in pods its the only way they can travel from region to region for the most part.
Players who carry extremely valuable cargo in a badger II are going to get blown up and that's how it should be. The better the ship you have to haul (t2 transports , orcas, freighters) the more you can carry before reaching that "its worth it" spot for gankers. With warp to 0 you can pretty much avoid most gankers. Its easy to avoid just have to put more work and time into hauling.
That being said ccp put in new mechanics to deal with suicides because it was just so easy and the consequences weren't there (this was more for the miners than any haulers)...so you had carebears running around screaming and on flames everywhere you looked (it was funny in a sick sorta way). So they made sec hits harder, so the gankers had to work off the sec hit.
Seeing as pirates have nothing really to do 99% of time because lowsec is barren, they sat at their gates and thought about this..."Hey lets just get your alt to drop us off some ships in highsec and we wont have to work this sec status off" wootz they said as they headed off to cause trouble. Very old tactic but it now was more useful now. Thumbs up pirate nice thinking!
Only problem is this allows them to get around the consequences of sec status in highsec. Your a pirate your suppose to be in low sec drinking rum and pillaging for god sakes.
So now you have pirates in highsec with no consequences to them...concord blows up the ship they make isk from the insurance...and they take a sec hit! oh noes wait im already -10 woot! No consequences.
What a world it would be if pirating was everywhere and maybe the totaldeathhell whatever expansion will come out and all hell will break lose but for now the intent is to have a semi-safe area. If you wanna suicide gank you should be able to ...you just need to have consequences for breaking the law in highsec.
Fix the dang Bounty system give more power to players and less to the npcs please.
Pods need to be let through highsec but if you shouldn't be able to jump into a ship while there. If you wanna fly in highsec stop killing people or go work off your bad sec status.
Insurance should be taken away from ships blown up by concord. Maybe leave frigs alone for the noobs. Getting in a cruiser should be a right of passage which says hey im not a dumbass and wont target my corp mates can and fire.
Forgive me for the bad grammar/spelling im ******ed and killed my English teacher with a tea spoon.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.01.02 22:57:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Live B8t
[ 2009.01.02 04:32:56 ] you know who > Well, it's going to take me months to get back there- I don't buy GTCs, I do things like god intended,
Epic. I too do things as god intended too. My god is a vengeful, violent, angry god that demands the blood of afk carebears.
I also find Blastil thinking that concord deaths don't give out insurance is fairly amusing. Learn to play the game ffs. Don't talk about mechanics you haven't done, you ****ing noob Blastil. --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Spurty
Caldari Technologic Dance
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Posted - 2009.01.02 23:46:00 -
[123]
Originally by: F4LC0N why do we have high sec systems anyway?
because CCP aren't stupid and know that many of their target player base has young children and can only play for an hour max a day?
high sec means you never have to worry about logging in and finding the station all your ships are in is now held by someone else.
What I don't get is why anyone with a low sec status bothers with high sec, everything they need is in low / null sec (things to pop).
Sure, its not as populated, but that the play style you chose. No one is putting a gun to your head to get a low sec status.
Don't get me wrong, you are needed out in low sec, how else can I test out a fit on TQ (sisi being terrible for such testing) without 5-10 flashy reds to smack at me while suicide test a tank? :-p
Only things I'd like is easier time popping pods and ability to 'transfer' kill rights over to me.
As for insurance payouts, I think they are ok. Hows a player with -5 or lower losing a ship any different to a +5 that loses a ship in a mission? Both took on a very dangerous task and lost a ship. To make a mistake is Human. To make a REALLY BIG mistake, takes a computer |
Eudamidas
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.02 23:47:00 -
[124]
oh ~ Woke up, got myself a gun |
charming wanderer
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Posted - 2009.01.02 23:57:00 -
[125]
I have seen people say multiple times in this thread something along the lines of: "The pirates get their ship insurance and make money off the loss."
I have to ask, do you guys get free modules for your ships? Because I sure as hell don't, and don't try to say that the insurance pay covers the fit as well as the hull, because you are wrong. There is a definite loss when suiciding a ship, the pay comes from the smoking remains of the ship which got suicided, not CONCORD popping the pirates ships.
Suicide ganking people is actually a big gamble. There is a good chance that everything valuable in the target is going to go up in smoke leaving you with a sec loss and smaller wallet. More than one suicide ganker has ended up back in lowsec ratting up his standings with nothing to show for it but some killmails showing all kind of expensive stuff getting destroyed.
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FarosWarrior
Amarr Sonnema
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Posted - 2009.01.03 00:02:00 -
[126]
admit it, you got ganked Cheers, Faros
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Bloss0m
Caldari Industrial death
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Posted - 2009.01.03 00:11:00 -
[127]
Charming if your using mods that actually cost you more than a small amount of isk to suicide with your doing it wrong. As it stands with the right ship/setups you shouldnt be losing isk when you get your ship insurance payout.
Suicide ganking is a gamble and that is part of the fun of it, but what myself and a couple other people were trying to point out is if done right you dont lose anything because people are able to get into highsec with -10 sec status and with "correctly" fitted ships not lose any money because of insurance.
If you pick your targets right you have a good chance they aren't even going to attempt to use their killrights against you because they have no combat skills because they are professional miners or haulers. So really your getting a free kill most of the time and whatever loot they may drop.
CCP needs to tie up the work arounds on consequence free ganking , and get a killright system that allows people to transfer kill rights. They put that in place should lead to some more pew pew which is always fun.
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Hard Facts
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Posted - 2009.01.03 00:17:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Al Drevika
1. Podkills are not allowed for -5 sec (without penalty). Two representatives of CCP said so. Get a clue.
You can kill -5.0 to -10.0 sec pods without penalty at all in high sec. i have done it, my corp mates have done it, my friends in game have done it.. get a clue... learn how the mechanics works before whining on the forums...
PS: i believe wow is that way --->>>
PS: we dont want a Fluffy pink lala land that you want....
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charming wanderer
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Posted - 2009.01.03 00:17:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Bloss0m Charming if your using mods that actually cost you more than a small amount of isk to suicide with your doing it wrong. As it stands with the right ship/setups you shouldnt be losing isk when you get your ship insurance payout.
Suicide ganking is a gamble and that is part of the fun of it, but what myself and a couple other people were trying to point out is if done right you dont lose anything because people are able to get into highsec with -10 sec status and with "correctly" fitted ships not lose any money because of insurance.
If you pick your targets right you have a good chance they aren't even going to attempt to use their killrights against you because they have no combat skills because they are professional miners or haulers. So really your getting a free kill most of the time and whatever loot they may drop.
CCP needs to tie up the work arounds on consequence free ganking , and get a killright system that allows people to transfer kill rights. They put that in place should lead to some more pew pew which is always fun.
What ship can pull off a successful suicide gank with a fit that will be covered by the insurance? I guess maybe I am doing it wrong, please enlighten me...
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Bloss0m
Caldari Industrial death
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Posted - 2009.01.03 00:34:00 -
[130]
Ill bite the bullet and say alright maybe your losing isk on the setups you use, hell the setups I use to use might cost you some isk now its been a bit since ive suicided *kinda boring*. Still t1 items cost nothing and t2 items are dirt cheap nowadays. You may end up losing some isk if you get unlucky...but the carebear tears should make up for that. If you need a fully fitted t2 hac to suicide a badger II...your doing it wrong. If your killing bigger targets either get more people or its just a bigger gamble. Its still not going to break the bank unless you REALLY get unlucky or pick poor targets.
Ive suicide plenty but your right I haven't tried to make a living off of it. All I see in your post is someone picking poor targets and costing yourself way too much isk, but then again your apparently the expert.
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2009.01.03 02:00:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Herr Wilkus on 03/01/2009 02:01:05 Protip: Wanna AFK haul in complete safety? Fly a freighter. (edit- has ANYONE heard of a successful freighter gank in hi-sec since the nerf???)
TBH, the suicide-nerf has made me quite rich. In the bad old days - I'd never risk more than 2 Billion ISK worth of cargo at a time in my Fenrir. I would always have a scout. I would manually WTZ that slow ass btch for 20+ jumps. After all, you would never know if there were a dozen TorpRavens waiting for you on the other side. Life was harsh.
But then, happy day! Suicide gankers get the nerf! CCP decided that I don't actually have to play the game to make huge stacks of cash in hi-sec. Now, in this new era of safety and prosperity, I can stuff 10+ Billion of goods into a Fenrir, set the old autopilot, go to work, come home, dock up, sell, sell, sell. Like magic, in a day or two I have 11+ Billion.
I mean, my profits have gone through the roof, I hardly have to work at all anymore, and I haven't lost a single scrap of cargo since then. Big rewards, no risk. Thanks CCP! Thanks aggrieved whiners!
And thats what its about. Changing the game to create easy profits for people like the OP who don't want suprises and don't want to take precautions.
Of course, the OP is full of crap when he talks how helpless haulers are. While I've spent most of my time flying indies, transports and freighters, I've also ganked dozens of haulers and ninja looted hundreds of LVL4 missions. From experience, WTZ will save even the slowest of industrials 99% of the time. In a few rare cases, a coordinated group will scan you down a few systems upstream, and scramble you on alignment....but if you have stabilizers and a basic shield tank, you're safe. If you maxed out Cargohold Expanders instead....well, you are screwed and thats what happens when you get greedy. Its that risk/reward thing again.
OP's vision for empire space is like a bizarre carebear paradise.
The OP has it in for red flashies - so gun down their pods at the gate, never mind that NPC podkilling simply does not exist anywhere in the game.
But 99% of all suicide gankers are not red flashing. So what else - remove insurance for gankers? I'm fine with that. Remove it - completely. Insurance for mission running warships is completely illogical, and insurance for industrials is pointless. More risk for everyone = good.
And the cherry on top? OP wants looters and salvagers to get Concorded. Which makes little sense, as looters and salvagers pose NO threat whatsoever to any player. Popping wrecks and popping cans <> popping ships and podkilling. Its like a summary execution for small children caught stealing candy from the local 7-11.
Verdict: troll post \o/
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.03 02:35:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Al Drevika 1. Podkills are not allowed for -5 sec (without penalty). Two representatives of CCP said so. Get a clue.
These representatives (or you, in asking the question) are confusing killright targets and outlaws. Outlaws are always fair game.
If you feel this is not the case, you should bug report it. Once fixed, you should then petition CCP to restore the current situation (i.e. reintroduce the bug as the intended behaviour).
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
JoeT
Amarr Short Attention Span Paisti Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.03 02:43:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Falcon Troy Edited by: Falcon Troy on 02/01/2009 06:10:00
Originally by: Al Drevika Limiting? Please.
You have -10 sec with Concord. You freely pop in through the gate in your pod. Concord waves at you and asks if you're having a nice day. You jump into a ship your high-standing alt brought in for you, probably a ship you built from a BPO and have insured for more than you have into it. Find a juicy target, gank it. Alt picks up the cargo. Collect insurance on the ship Concord shot up such that CCP is actually *paying* you to do this. Wash, rinse, repeat.
And you can go back to nullsec and rat to get your standing back (but why bother, -10 really doesn't mean anything since Concord won't shoot pods).
Please, please tell me what is soooo limiting. I would love to hear it. The system is so slanted towards PvPers it's not even funny. Just change the rules to let any of us "carebears" to shoot low standing ships and pods without Concord intervention (since we're doing the job they fail to do). The howls of "unfair" would be music to my ears, and I would drink pie tears until I could drink no more.
Makes sense.
Ironically easy to slip through the cracks as an outlaw in hisec. However, this issue ties all to closely with the ridiculousness of alts...and thats a whole other problem all together.
hey hey hey. i have an alt, but i never haul anything with it, or well do much anything with it anymore. if i need something I ahve freinds that dont mind (+ i pay them extra to haul it for me). If i need to drop a BS in space to gank something, then well my freind will do that too lol. Not everything is done with alts :) - We are anonymous. We Are legion. |
Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2009.01.03 14:34:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus Edited by: Herr Wilkus on 03/01/2009 02:01:05 Protip: Wanna AFK haul in complete safety? Fly a freighter. (edit- has ANYONE heard of a successful freighter gank in hi-sec since the nerf???)
TBH, the suicide-nerf has made me quite rich. In the bad old days - I'd never risk more than 2 Billion ISK worth of cargo at a time in my Fenrir. I would always have a scout. I would manually WTZ that slow ass btch for 20+ jumps. After all, you would never know if there were a dozen TorpRavens waiting for you on the other side. Life was harsh.
But then, happy day! Suicide gankers get the nerf! CCP decided that I don't actually have to play the game to make huge stacks of cash in hi-sec. Now, in this new era of safety and prosperity, I can stuff 10+ Billion of goods into a Fenrir, set the old autopilot, go to work, come home, dock up, sell, sell, sell. Like magic, in a day or two I have 11+ Billion.
I mean, my profits have gone through the roof, I hardly have to work at all anymore, and I haven't lost a single scrap of cargo since then. Big rewards, no risk. Thanks CCP! Thanks aggrieved whiners!
And thats what its about. Changing the game to create easy profits for people like the OP who don't want suprises and don't want to take precautions.
Of course, the OP is full of crap when he talks how helpless haulers are. While I've spent most of my time flying indies, transports and freighters, I've also ganked dozens of haulers and ninja looted hundreds of LVL4 missions. From experience, WTZ will save even the slowest of industrials 99% of the time. In a few rare cases, a coordinated group will scan you down a few systems upstream, and scramble you on alignment....but if you have stabilizers and a basic shield tank, you're safe. If you maxed out Cargohold Expanders instead....well, you are screwed and thats what happens when you get greedy. Its that risk/reward thing again.
OP's vision for empire space is like a bizarre carebear paradise.
The OP has it in for red flashies - so gun down their pods at the gate, never mind that NPC podkilling simply does not exist anywhere in the game.
But 99% of all suicide gankers are not red flashing. So what else - remove insurance for gankers? I'm fine with that. Remove it - completely. Insurance for mission running warships is completely illogical, and insurance for industrials is pointless. More risk for everyone = good.
And the cherry on top? OP wants looters and salvagers to get Concorded. Which makes little sense, as looters and salvagers pose NO threat whatsoever to any player. Popping wrecks and popping cans <> popping ships and podkilling. Its like a summary execution for small children caught stealing candy from the local 7-11.
Verdict: troll post \o/
And a real Eve player appears. Good post. o7
----
≡v≡ |
Dr Slaughter
Minmatar Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.03 14:56:00 -
[135]
Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 03/01/2009 14:57:20 meh
~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest. |
Lord Zoran
House of Tempers
|
Posted - 2009.01.03 15:00:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Solostrom
Originally by: Al Drevika Find a juicy target, gank it. Alt picks up the cargo.
Plz... stop your crying and...
STOP BEING THE JUICY TARGET YOU IDIOT!
i like.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.01.03 15:35:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 03/01/2009 15:37:49
Originally by: charming wanderer
What ship can pull off a successful suicide gank with a fit that will be covered by the insurance? I guess maybe I am doing it wrong, please enlighten me...
Last I checked, and that's a while ago when trit was a good deal lower, I came up with two different ships with 1000+dps fits that would, all said and done, net me a profit when destroyed, assuming 50% module destruction and salvage from the ship.
(And to preemptively answer the asshat who will wonder why I didn't do that for profit then, it's obviously because the profit was too low.)
If I wanted the same fits with zero effort, they would have ended up costing me no more then 5 mil. 10 mil tops even if everything was destroyed and I didn't get to salvage. I did the calcs down to the last isk.
Don't know if current prices have changed things. Then again, you do not need 1000 dps ships to take down badgers.
Gankers don't need to worry about overhead or cost effectiveness, because insurance negates most of their loss, even if they're lazy and stupid. That is why you see people using T2 mods even on suicide ships, because they don't care. They don't need to.
All the latest changes did was make it slightly harder against large targets, so CCP failed there. Freighters, like the one owned by Mr Billioneer trucker in this thread, and missionships got their security boosted. Smaller ships didn't, not significantly.
Sec status "penalty" remains a joke. Insurance needs to go. Keep the ganks, just make them actually cost something. CCP chose the wrong path in the last suicide nerf.
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.01.03 16:01:00 -
[138]
well idk about you but whenever I shoot at somebody in lowsec my sec takes a significantly larger hit than it used to. I'm -1.90, and I haven't gone to lowsec for a while cause I need empire access for wars. It sucks.
As for shooting pods of flashy red people, youcan already do that. And having stations shooting pods in loswec is just dumb. That takes all the fun out of killing or being killed on stations
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F4LC0N
|
Posted - 2009.01.03 16:14:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus Edited by: Herr Wilkus on 03/01/2009 02:01:05 Protip: Wanna AFK haul in complete safety? Fly a freighter. (edit- has ANYONE heard of a successful freighter gank in hi-sec since the nerf???)
TBH, the suicide-nerf has made me quite rich. In the bad old days - I'd never risk more than 2 Billion ISK worth of cargo at a time in my Fenrir. I would always have a scout. I would manually WTZ that slow ass btch for 20+ jumps. After all, you would never know if there were a dozen TorpRavens waiting for you on the other side. Life was harsh.
But then, happy day! Suicide gankers get the nerf! CCP decided that I don't actually have to play the game to make huge stacks of cash in hi-sec. Now, in this new era of safety and prosperity, I can stuff 10+ Billion of goods into a Fenrir, set the old autopilot, go to work, come home, dock up, sell, sell, sell. Like magic, in a day or two I have 11+ Billion.
I mean, my profits have gone through the roof, I hardly have to work at all anymore, and I haven't lost a single scrap of cargo since then. Big rewards, no risk. Thanks CCP! Thanks aggrieved whiners!
And thats what its about. Changing the game to create easy profits for people like the OP who don't want suprises and don't want to take precautions.
Of course, the OP is full of crap when he talks how helpless haulers are. While I've spent most of my time flying indies, transports and freighters, I've also ganked dozens of haulers and ninja looted hundreds of LVL4 missions. From experience, WTZ will save even the slowest of industrials 99% of the time. In a few rare cases, a coordinated group will scan you down a few systems upstream, and scramble you on alignment....but if you have stabilizers and a basic shield tank, you're safe. If you maxed out Cargohold Expanders instead....well, you are screwed and thats what happens when you get greedy. Its that risk/reward thing again.
OP's vision for empire space is like a bizarre carebear paradise.
The OP has it in for red flashies - so gun down their pods at the gate, never mind that NPC podkilling simply does not exist anywhere in the game.
But 99% of all suicide gankers are not red flashing. So what else - remove insurance for gankers? I'm fine with that. Remove it - completely. Insurance for mission running warships is completely illogical, and insurance for industrials is pointless. More risk for everyone = good.
And the cherry on top? OP wants looters and salvagers to get Concorded. Which makes little sense, as looters and salvagers pose NO threat whatsoever to any player. Popping wrecks and popping cans <> popping ships and podkilling. Its like a summary execution for small children caught stealing candy from the local 7-11.
Verdict: troll post \o/
great view of balance so for every carebear less effort more profit? while the ganker need more effort to make more profit? and to everyone assuming you are safe while not afk is fails it just takes more effort to catch none afk haulers.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.03 16:26:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Stil Harkonnen well idk about you but whenever I shoot at somebody in lowsec my sec takes a significantly larger hit than it used to. I'm -1.90, and I haven't gone to lowsec for a while cause I need empire access for wars. It sucks.
And you're right- that shouldn't happen.
Quote:
As for shooting pods of flashy red people, youcan already do that. And having stations shooting pods in loswec is just dumb.
Nobody in this thread ever proposed that. The original suggestion was for empire space only (and yes, I've stated several times that I agree that NPCs should podkill as well... )
Originally by: Spurty
Originally by: F4LC0N why do we have high sec systems anyway?
because CCP aren't stupid and know that many of their target player base has young children and can only play for an hour max a day?
high sec means you never have to worry about logging in and finding the station all your ships are in is now held by someone else.
What I don't get is why anyone with a low sec status bothers with high sec, everything they need is in low / null sec (things to pop).
Sure, its not as populated, but that the play style you chose. No one is putting a gun to your head to get a low sec status.
Spurty: best post in this thread.. 10/10. Yes, some of us have lives, families, which is why we choose to live in high sec. When I have two uninterrupted hours, I'll go to low sec and be a target or do something dangerous. But those times are few and far between, maybe once a month. As I said, it's good that CCP makes a game that interests people of my lifestyle, too. Don't like it? Maybe we should all tell you babies to f*** off and go play some multiplayer first-person-shooter game where you can rack up 300 kills an hour. Then you'd quit whining in this forums about a lack of targets.
I utterly reject the concept that this is "your" game and you should be catered to. Look at the design of the game and its economic system, and it's obvious to even the stupidest person that it is not your game.
Again, the solution doesn't need to be one-sided. You guys have your issues, too, and a rational conversation is what's needed.
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Guttripper
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.03 16:31:00 -
[141]
Perhaps it was mentioned previously, but why not change gang security status to equal the lowest security ranking of a player within the gang for all players involved? Then once the gang breaks apart, the security status of the individual players slowly returns to their original status - maybe like a countdown timer.
To use a real life example of sorts, a person joins Billy the Kid's gang. Law enforcement would not see this person as a potentially law-abiding citizen - he's part of a notorious known criminal's group. Yes, the bounty on Billy's head would be the highest, but other members may slowly gain such a negative reputation. And short of some shady areas, most people would not associate with said members.
So if a low security player groups with his law abiding alt, then why would anyone not see the alt as a potential criminal for associating with a known felon? Guilt by association could be similar to how (I believe) player corporations take an average of all players involved to create a standings. Except instead of an average, it takes the lowest rating for all involved.
Just a thought.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.03 16:42:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Tippia on 03/01/2009 16:47:05
Originally by: Al Drevika Again, the solution doesn't need to be one-sided. You guys have your issues, too, and a rational conversation is what's needed.
About what? The solution is already in the game and it's already not one-sided. You are the one claiming it's one-sided when in fact it's just a lack of understading of the game and/or unwillingness to use the many options open to you.
If you choose not to make use of these mechanics, than that's your problem, not a problem with the game.
Originally by: Guttripper Perhaps it was mentioned previously, but why not change gang security status to equal the lowest security ranking of a player within the gang for all players involved? Then once the gang breaks apart, the security status of the individual players slowly returns to their original status - maybe like a countdown timer.
Pointless. Aiding criminals directly already gets you CONCORDOkkened so guilt by association exists right now, and basing it around gangs would would only mean that people don't include their neutrals in the gang.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
F4LC0N
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Posted - 2009.01.03 16:48:00 -
[143]
Edited by: F4LC0N on 03/01/2009 16:50:41
Originally by: Spurty
Originally by: F4LC0N why do we have high sec systems anyway?
because CCP aren't stupid and know that many of their target player base has young children and can only play for an hour max a day?
high sec means you never have to worry about logging in and finding the station all your ships are in is now held by someone else.
What I don't get is why anyone with a low sec status bothers with high sec, everything they need is in low / null sec (things to pop).
the play time has nothing to do with high sec as that can be the case everywhere and if we had more low sec and less or no high sec maybe just for noobs it would make people have to work together. cause high sec is where you can make isk as a pirate not many juicy targets have to go to low sec.
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nekolove
Eve University
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Posted - 2009.01.03 16:52:00 -
[144]
Why don't you rework the WANTED bounty contracts to make them useful?
Make them like normal contracts, but that need the confirmation from the source -this way you control who gets the money-, and to be possible for them to be accepted by many multiple hunters. Make it possible to pay for blowed ships, for pod killing, for delivery of corpse (a new corpse, ofc). Also to be able to contract multiple actions, ex: I want to blow up that pod 100 times, and I pay for each to whoever makes it (ofcourse, the ongoing contracts must have the acceptance from the source first). Make it possible for the issuer to be anonymous (?).
Just an idea to move towards player regulation instead of NPC. It can be so much much improved...
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Bloss0m
Caldari Industrial death
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Posted - 2009.01.03 17:38:00 -
[145]
Eve needs highsec, we need people out mining low end minerals in relative safety otherwise ships will cost so much you wont be able to afford to buy them and instead of going out and pew pewing you'll be the one out mining. We need industrialist and people who don't directly (i say directly because there is more pvp in eve than just shooting people in the face) partake in pvp.
Your gonna get this in every thread like this one group is total cry babies that want eve to become this carebear land and another group that wants it to become all 0.0 pvp. For the most part (I think) though people realize both are wrong and eve needs to have a middle ground and for the most part ccp has done a good job trying to meet that balance. Still needs improvement though.
Pirates are trying every possible way to get around the repercussions of killing people in highsec because they have nothing to shoot in low sec. Gate camping can be pretty boring and not really that profitable. So I can understand why they are here on the forums screaming their heads off because they are bored as hell in game. Low sec needs a huge buff to draw players there.
Many industrialist aren't necessarily carebears. Even for a industrialist the notion you can get popped at anytime adds a excitement to the game like no other. Highsec is suppose to be semi-safe though so when someone finds away around the repercussions of killing someone in highsec they get ****ed off.
You get your hauler blown up because you screwed up thats the way it goes, the other guy took a sec hit and lost his ship and you have to go back to working your way back up. Although if the pirate is -10 in highsec and has a fully insured ship he really doesn't lose anything. Where are the repercussion? The carebear loses everything for screwing up and afk hauling or bringing too weak of a ship but the pirate really isn't losing anything and is possibly gaining millions if not billions.
"Oh but they can come kill me anytime they want they have killrights!" - generic gank bear response. True they can but really you just blew up a guy in a badger II who is most likley a hauler alt, or a professional industrialist chances of them being able to take you in a fight is unlikely. They need to make killrights a transferable item. Which i doubt many real pirates will mind because it means more fighting which is fun.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2009.01.03 17:56:00 -
[146]
Avoiding suicide ganking is easy, buy a bustard (from me).
Also W20.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2009.01.03 18:04:00 -
[147]
stop having expensive things in or on your ship at or near peak play times in or near busy systems |
hedfunk
Caldari Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.03 18:11:00 -
[148]
OP should stop whining, clue up and enjoy the advantage high sec players already get. Pirating and Suicide ganking gets nerfed repeatedly, yet there's always someone who has to keep complaining.
You said you don't want to be "looking over your shoulder". Play something else then. That's the whole point of eve, 'play it, don't AFK it', this old MMO quote counts triple for EvE. Danger lurks at every corner.
Socialist revolutinaries with guns = bad Iraqis with guns = Insurgent Terrorists Americans with guns = Patriots
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.03 18:26:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Bloss0m
You get your hauler blown up because you screwed up thats the way it goes, the other guy took a sec hit and lost his ship and you have to go back to working your way back up. Although if the pirate is -10 in highsec and has a fully insured ship he really doesn't lose anything. Where are the repercussion? The carebear loses everything for screwing up and afk hauling or bringing too weak of a ship but the pirate really isn't losing anything and is possibly gaining millions if not billions.
Thank you for so succinctly summarizing the imbalance of the situation.
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F4LC0N
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Posted - 2009.01.03 18:26:00 -
[150]
Edited by: F4LC0N on 03/01/2009 18:29:48 Eve doesnt realy need high sec to be relativly safe think best example of player protected low sec is Rancer sure its risky to go in without protection but you can mine or mission run there if you are the one who is protecting the system or if you have some relationship with them :) 0.0 is also relative safe to mine and do other stuff and its also player controlled. im fully aware that there is more pvp then shooting but works in relationship with the shooting part.
but as it is now high sec is way to profitable without much risk if you know what you're doing. the only safe mining or mission running you need is when you have to start over but not to generate enless isk in a safe environment it breaks the economy. Edit: guess why t1 production has a low profit nowdays.
most pirates who kill people in high sec do it for the isk. yeah low sec needs a buff but high sec also needs a nerf.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.03 18:45:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Bloss0m
You get your hauler blown up because you screwed up thats the way it goes, the other guy took a sec hit and lost his ship and you have to go back to working your way back up. Although if the pirate is -10 in highsec and has a fully insured ship he really doesn't lose anything. Where are the repercussion? The carebear loses everything for screwing up and afk hauling or bringing too weak of a ship but the pirate really isn't losing anything and is possibly gaining millions if not billions.
Thank you for so succinctly summarizing the imbalance of the situation.
That's not an imbalance — quite the opposite. It's the one thing that brings a bit of risk to highsec, making it balanced against the lower secs.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
SiJira
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Posted - 2009.01.03 18:54:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Tippia That's not an imbalance ù quite the opposite. It's the one thing that brings a bit of risk to highsec, making it balanced against the lower secs.
but hisec means i cant get shot with my seventy billion isk of cargo Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Bloss0m
Caldari Industrial death
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Posted - 2009.01.03 18:57:00 -
[153]
Your a evil man trying to get people to go into rancer aren't you?
Ill agree you could do away with highsec but it would change things so radically that only a handful of super hardcore players would be left and pvp would be so difficult because you couldn't afford ship loses (and im sure plenty of players would love this but ccp probably wouldnt like seeing its subs drop back to 2003 levels).
Right now you get busted up in lowsec or 0.0 you have a refuge to run back to rebuild and go back in swinging.Highsec keeps things cheap which makes for more fun in pvp in 0.0. Some of the safest mining is in fact in deep 0.0 because of the lack of people that are in some regions. If your mining in lowsec right now you have a death wish for the most part. Most people cant stop from being blown up in highsec in a hulk no less in lawless space. I cant stress enough how bad lowsec needs a buff.
I will agree I think some highsec stuff needs nerfing, mainly the lvl 4 mission running. The risk vs reward just isnt there but my hope is that the AI that ccp is going to be instituting will mix things up and people with all factioned out ships wont be able to run through it on easy mode. Right now the only real threat to most mission runners is the lag monster.
Mining in highsec is so utterly boring and mindless if someone can sit there and mine veldspar all day without going crazy more power to them. Mining needs a buff in regards to fun. Make people have to actually play the game (this was hinted at in fanfest as on the table though).
To get back on subject though highsec ganking is part of the game ccp just needs to make sure people arent getting away with risk free/repercussion free ganks in highsec.
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Scarlet Pimpdaddy
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Posted - 2009.01.03 18:58:00 -
[154]
OMG! I just remembered the OP has made a similiar post before. Still going on about it I see.
Linky
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.03 19:16:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Bloss0m To get back on subject though highsec ganking is part of the game ccp just needs to make sure people arent getting away with risk free/repercussion free ganks in highsec.
There are risks and repercussions. It's just that the gankers don't consider them as such — they consider them challenges and rewards that make the game more fun. It is as it should be.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
F4LC0N
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Posted - 2009.01.03 19:16:00 -
[156]
As off it would be bad to have more expenive t1 ships and mods would solve the porblem with insurance, i remember the time when mining with a hulk in low sec or high sec was competetive with lvl4 missions, nowdays the industry went down the river but mission running stayed mainly the same.
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Bloss0m
Caldari Industrial death
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Posted - 2009.01.03 19:19:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Tippia That's not an imbalance ù quite the opposite. It's the one thing that brings a bit of risk to highsec, making it balanced against the lower secs.
Im not saying get rid of suicide ganking in the least. Im saying it needs a balancing out. If you are -10 you aren't taking a sec hit when you blow someone up and with insurance and cheap mods your taking a minor hit to the wallet. Your still gonna have suicide gankers but it moves it up the food chain a little bit. Less hitting noobs, and more waiting to burn that sec status off on really good targets because if you screw up or the loot is bad you lose that sec status and your ship, if you get lucky you hit the motherload.
Its still there, it still makes carebears think before undocking and shake in their little fluffy suits but it isnt a free buffet of carebear meat in jita either (mmm carebear meat). Right now you lose a minor amount of isk and if your -10 no sec hit. I just think thats not balanced. Just no real risk vs reward.
Also realize im not talking about your normal ganker burning off some sec status. Im talking about the people using work around to not take that sec status and just killing without repercussion. The insurance im not really a fan of either for carebears or pvpers. I just think this is another spot to interject the fact insurance takes way to much risk out of some activities.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.03 19:55:00 -
[158]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Tippia That's not an imbalance ù quite the opposite. It's the one thing that brings a bit of risk to highsec, making it balanced against the lower secs.
but hisec means i cant get shot with my seventy billion isk of cargo
You really didn't read the post I quoted, did you? I even pulled out the salient point for you to make it easy? Are you really that bad at reading? Send me an Eve-mail with your address, I'll send a Cat in the Hat book to you.
We don't mind being at risk. The issue is that the pies are at no risk. That's what the OP was taking a stab at. I'm not asking for perfect safety, I'm asking for pie actions in high sec to have some kind of repercussions that are meaningful and exact a meaningful price.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.03 20:03:00 -
[159]
OK, so let's try this and see if there are some points of agreement:
- Buff lowsec rewards, bring more carebears (targets) in
- Fix the bounty system
- Transferrable kill rights
- Eliminate sec status hits for shooting in lowsec (or at least reduce it)
- Fix insurance (somehow) so suicide gankers IN HIGH SEC can't collect, or collect less
That seems reasonable to everybody to me. What do you think? You can state agree/disagree, and game-play related reasoning why.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.03 20:16:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 03/01/2009 20:16:01
Originally by: Al Drevika OK, so let's try this and see if there are some points of agreement:
- Buff lowsec rewards, bring more carebears (targets) in
- Fix the bounty system
- Transferrable kill rights
- Eliminate sec status hits for shooting in lowsec (or at least reduce it)
- Fix insurance (somehow) so suicide gankers IN HIGH SEC can't collect, or collect less
That seems reasonable to everybody to me. What do you think? You can state agree/disagree, and game-play related reasoning why.
Yes all these changes.
Or
- Actualy play the game and dont go afk with a **** load of loot?
Its so simple. I dont understand why people dont do it. Mind Boggling.
SKUNK
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.03 20:22:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Le Skunk [
Or
- Actualy play the game and dont go afk with a **** load of loot?
Already explained. Some of us have lives and kids and can't be at the computer every second and have to step away while the ship is on AP for a few minutes to put the kid back to bed or something. You're adding nothing with comments like that so STFU so the rest of us adults can have a real conversation, m'k?
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SiJira
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Posted - 2009.01.03 20:25:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Le Skunk [
Or
- Actualy play the game and dont go afk with a **** load of loot?
Already explained. Some of us have lives and kids and can't be at the computer every second and have to step away while the ship is on AP for a few minutes to put the kid back to bed or something. You're adding nothing with comments like that so STFU so the rest of us adults can have a real conversation, m'k?
undocking is engaging in pvp so give me a pause timer for eve okay Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.03 20:28:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Al Drevika You really didn't read the post I quoted, did you? I even pulled out the salient point for you to make it easy? Are you really that bad at reading? Send me an Eve-mail with your address, I'll send a Cat in the Hat book to you.
You didn't understand what I said did you? I even used small words. Are you really that stupid? I'm afraid no eve-mail or books will help so I won't bother with it. Tu quoque is always a good answer to ad hominem, so that makes us even…
Quote: We don't mind being at risk. The issue is that the pies are at no risk. […] I'm asking for pie actions in high sec to have some kind of repercussions that are meaningful and exact a meaningful price.
This is a thoroughly flawed assumption. I repeat: there are risks and repercussions. It's just that the gankers don't consider them as such — they consider them challenges and rewards that make the game more fun. It is as it should be. The fact that this view on the game brings balance to high-sec is only icing on the cake. The fact that the repercussions already solve your problem makes your complaint redundant.
Quote:
- Buff lowsec rewards, bring more carebears (targets) in
Won't happen — or, rather, won't work — by very definition of carebear.
Quote:
- Fix the bounty system
- Transferrable kill rights
Won't matter. They're already free targets, and you can already hire someone to kill them.
Quote:
- Eliminate sec status hits for shooting in lowsec (or at least reduce it)
…so that more gankers have to come to highsec to get their coveted -10?
Quote:
- Fix insurance (somehow) so suicide gankers IN HIGH SEC can't collect, or collect less
Might as well remove insurance completely then. The argument against this is always "but think of the n00bs" because they'll do something stupid like accidentally ignore the no-fire warning and get themselves blown up… With your suggestion, they'll get no insurance anyway and since the ones who actually need it won't get it, you might as well remove the mechanics as a whole.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.01.03 20:37:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 03/01/2009 20:37:24
Originally by: Tippia I repeat: there are risks and repercussions.
Bull****. But we've gone over that already.
You maintain that meaningless reprecussions, such as a change in sec status from -9.30 to -9.31 count as actual reprecussions, but that is a ridiculous stance. As is your claim of risk. But that's also been covered many times.
Quote: Might as well remove insurance completely then.
Yes, away with it. All of it if need be. While I would be fine with some allowances for poor sods to get their T1 cruisers reimbursed, perhaps just partially, I'm fine with getting rid of it all, and have been calling for such a change probably for a year now. At least it feels like a long time.
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Suitonia
Gallente interimo
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Posted - 2009.01.03 20:38:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Already explained. Some of us have lives and kids and can't be at the computer every second and have to step away while the ship is on AP for a few minutes to put the kid back to bed or something. You're adding nothing with comments like that so STFU so the rest of us adults can have a real conversation, m'k?
Why can't you dock when you are dealing with your real life?
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.03 20:48:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Tippia on 03/01/2009 20:48:43
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Tippia I repeat: there are risks and repercussions.
Bull****. But we've gone over that already.
You maintain that meaningless reprecussions, such as a change in sec status from -9.30 to -9.31 count as actual reprecussions, but that is a ridiculous stance.
And why is it ridiculous? It is an actual repercussions and there is risk, but as I keep saying: it's just that the gankers don't consider them as such — they consider them challenges and rewards.
Just because you personally don't like that some people take pride in their punishment and reinterpret the repercussions into rewards doesn't mean that the punishment doesn't exist.
If you want to solve that little problem (short of banning anyone with sec status <0), I'd suggest taking up penology — they've been wrestling with that problem for the last 15,000 years or so…
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Bloss0m
Caldari Industrial death
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Posted - 2009.01.03 20:51:00 -
[167]
Le Skunk: is right the majority of suicides can be avoided by just playing the game and not going afk, but suicide gankers can still nail someone with planning and a little team work...nothing wrong with that...its great infact but its still bending the rules and not taking a sec status hit or losing much in the way of isk at all...which leads to Tippia
Tippia: everyone knows that a lot of gankers gank just to gank! I just dont see the repercussions of breaking the law in highsec with the current mechanic work arounds in place. Please let me know what they are so I can see it from your prospective because its been a while since ive suicided anyone and currently I dont agree with you and I could be completely and totally wrong and ill be fine with that. I just wanna know whats so risky about a properly done gank by a -10 pirate with insurance in highsec.
I also disagree with you on the point buffing highsec wont help. It may not bring in "carebears" but it will bring in other players who at this point see no point going there because...there isnt one! Industrialist and other players will go. "if you buff it they will come" (man that sounded dirty).
I agree all insurance should be nerfed. (except frigs).
SiJira: I just cant disagree with her for some reason..its like your in my head.
Al Drevika: I know your trying to get a valid point across and youve been called carebear and whiner every which way...but honestly its because you sorta are annoying with the "stfu and let the adults talk" type lines. Keep cool man your really failing at the whorums. As for your list of ideas I agree with most of what you said except maybe the no sec hit for low sec...I mean if your a pirate your a pirate who cares about sec status at that point.
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Sorted
Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.03 20:58:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Le Skunk [
Or
- Actualy play the game and dont go afk with a **** load of loot?
Already explained. Some of us have lives and kids and can't be at the computer every second and have to step away while the ship is on AP for a few minutes to put the kid back to bed or something. You're adding nothing with comments like that so STFU so the rest of us adults can have a real conversation, m'k?
Why do you move something so valuable to yourself when you are likely to get called away. Whats the rush in getting to the destination? WHY NOT DOCK? (it will take an extra 3 secs over clicking the killme/AP butan child.)
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.03 21:10:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Tippia on 03/01/2009 21:12:07
Originally by: Bloss0m I just dont see the repercussions of breaking the law in highsec with the current mechanic work arounds in place.
Then you're seeing the repercussions. Yes, there are work-arounds but that doesn't mean there aren't repercussions — just that they are designed not to be debilitating.
Quote: I just wanna know whats so risky about a properly done gank by a -10 pirate with insurance in highsec.
Well, that's a leading question if there ever was one. But ok: there is no risk to such a gank, but that's because nothing that is properly done is risky (incidentally, this also means that properly done carebearing is safe too because it effectively removes you from the target list of a properly done gank). Outside of that, there is a risk that other, more vigilant players won't let you do it properly because they ensure that you die the instant you poke your head in above 0.45… The risk is there — it's just that other players fail to turn that risk into reality.
Quote: I also disagree with you on the point buffing highlowsec wont help. It may not bring in "carebears" […]
Then we don't disagree. Carebears won't come no matter what because of the risks. Industrialists may come, but they aren't carebears.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.03 21:13:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 03/01/2009 21:15:40
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Le Skunk [
Or
- Actualy play the game and dont go afk with a **** load of loot?
Already explained. Some of us have lives and kids and can't be at the computer every second and have to step away while the ship is on AP for a few minutes to put the kid back to bed or something. You're adding nothing with comments like that so STFU so the rest of us adults can have a real conversation, m'k?
Looking at your contracts we see a failed courier mission from aramuchi to jita
This is only SEVEN JUMPS
This would have taken you seven mins to complete. Assuming you were interupted (which i doubt) by your child in that 7 mins you could have docked up.
I was playing a football match the other day and i had an urgent phone call I needed to take - so i rushed off the pitch..
WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT WHEN I GOT BACK - THE BASTARDS HAD CARRIED ON THE GAME WITHOUT ME AND WE WERE LOSING 3-0. DONT THEY REALIZE SOME OF US HAVE WIVES AND CHILDREN!!!!
SKUNK
You want to be "adult"? Well man up and admit you were stupid/lazy, you got punished for this, take your loss like a man and move on. Stop the whining.
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2009.01.03 21:15:00 -
[171]
I'm still annoyed that CCP has made freighters completely deathproof in hisec. Yeah, I fly freighters, but the risk of losing a several billion investment forced me to, uh, actually PLAY the game. Further, those coordinated enough to engineer a successful hisec freighter kill always impressed me (though I've only seen them on youtube.)
As far as I can tell, hisec pirating freighters (or faction-fit Battleships or the new floating Jetcan, the Orca) is IMPOSSIBLE today due to the new idiotic 1-8 second Concord response times.
How did that improve the game? Has nothing to do with risk and reward, or 'giving gankers a challenge'....its just no longer possible by game rules. Take away insurance, sure - still doesn't make freighters any more vulnerable. It just means now the gankers lose their ship instead of the just the insurance premium and mods - for the same 0% chance of success.
What does that mean? NPC corp Hi-sec players now can now rat in multi-billion faction BS's, stomp the idiot NPCS and print money completely without risk. Freighters float stuffed with fantastic fortunes completely unmolested, completely without risk.
And the sad thing is that the OP doesn't think it is safe enough.
Personally I think a major improvement would be to have mandatory low-sec systems between each Faction. (IE: impossible to travel between Caldari space and Gallente space without going through a few low-sec systems.) Live in Dodixie and want to go shopping in exotic Jita? Well, then you need to plan a trip through lowsec. Trade becomes more difficult (and more profitable for risk takers.) Pirates have more targets if people want to move between regions, and it fits the storyline of 'Faction Warfare' - having 'no-man's land' between the hostile combatants...
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.03 21:25:00 -
[172]
empire huggers the clue when saying that you carrying juicy shiney things is to not make yourself a target
in the olden days pirates would go after the cargo ships because of the shiney things
the idea to not make you a target wont make you a target
insurance is a game mechanic not a company
faction police shoot you not concord when entering high sec with a low sec status
concord engage you when engaing someone else in high sec
you can engage any blinky red in empire which out concenquence
just though i clear up a few things before i trench into this thread
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Karath Piki
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Posted - 2009.01.03 21:28:00 -
[173]
If you're not willing to fight for what you have in Eve... you don't deserve it, and you will lose it. Learn the mechanics-- CONCORD only responds to immediate, illegal violence, not its potential even if the potential appears inevitable. Navies respond pre-emptively to criminals, but are not as powerful as CONCORD.
CONCORD does NOT engage in pro-active policing, but in simply destroying ships used in acts of violence. Stop trying to make them into something they are not. CONCORD is not a police force as they are in the real world, and they were not intended to be so.
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Polinus
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.03 21:29:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Drik Drevani Edited by: Drik Drevani on 02/01/2009 06:24:09
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler
You can
Liar. Can't pod. Blowing up the ship isn't enough.
LoL like as you could catch PODs in high sec even if you have clearance to kill them. Only very very dumb or lagged people woudl loose a pod.
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Seishomaru
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Posted - 2009.01.03 21:34:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Le Skunk [
Or
- Actualy play the game and dont go afk with a **** load of loot?
Already explained. Some of us have lives and kids and can't be at the computer every second and have to step away while the ship is on AP for a few minutes to put the kid back to bed or something. You're adding nothing with comments like that so STFU so the rest of us adults can have a real conversation, m'k?
Why don't you do as all the PVPers do? They dock or warp to safe and sometimes cloak?
Not very hard to use the brain. And the results are very good.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.03 21:34:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Karath Piki If you're not willing to fight for what you have in Eve... you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.
Sigworthy! --- “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
F4LC0N
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Posted - 2009.01.03 21:39:00 -
[177]
Edited by: F4LC0N on 03/01/2009 21:39:16 ok lets look the suicide ganking from the none shooting pvp side. when you lost your cargo its bad for you but its good for your competition and vice versa.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.03 21:40:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Seishomaru
Originally by: Al Drevika
Originally by: Le Skunk [
Or
- Actualy play the game and dont go afk with a **** load of loot?
Already explained. Some of us have lives and kids and can't be at the computer every second and have to step away while the ship is on AP for a few minutes to put the kid back to bed or something. You're adding nothing with comments like that so STFU so the rest of us adults can have a real conversation, m'k?
Why don't you do as all the PVPers do? They dock or warp to safe and sometimes cloak?
Not very hard to use the brain. And the results are very good.
Indeed - The kids nappy can wait for the 10 seconds it takes to hit the dock button.
If the kid is suffering from a condition that cannot wait 10 seconds, then tbh you wouldnt be on here worrying about a bit of isk.
SKUNK
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
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Bloss0m
Caldari Industrial death
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Posted - 2009.01.03 21:57:00 -
[179]
Edited by: Bloss0m on 03/01/2009 22:01:36
Tippia your technically right a properly done carebear hauler trip pretty slim chance your gonna get ganked. Your also right a -10 has a chance to get nailed in his pod although very small chance, you tried catching those little bastards in highsec? So there is small risk that a highskill point character can get podded and lose a significant amount of isk. So your right on those points.
If im a -10 pirate now though i can jump in a insured ship in highsec, blow up just about anything or anyone be it noob or vet if I can take them down within the time before concord responds. Doesnt even have to drop anything really because I dont lose hardly any isk if any nailing people in highsec and I can do it all day long just keep bringing me ships. Very small risk vs possible rewards.
Now people can fight back and they can take out the pirate ...but really isn't that what low sec is for thats why we have the sec status system. CCP wanted a way to keep pirates with low sec status in low sec and out of highsec. Im not saying people shouldn't fight for what they have or any of that im just trying to look at this from a neutral stand point. Its pretty obvious by the way the game was laid out ccp wanted highsec semi safe... you can kill people but your gonna have to go work off the sec status before you come back in. Now have to let pirates enter highsec because they cant really move from region to region in low sec so you can come in fast little ships or pods, anything more we are going to nail at the gates so you cant just go on a killing spree.
People figured a way around that a long time ago but it wasn't worth the effort , now that ccp has clamped down on suicides a bit with security hits it is a viable tactic and people are using it. Question is , is this what ccp intended or is this going to be nerfed.
Me personally I dont see highsec was the intended place for -10 pirates to do their pirating. You can do suicides, pick targets here and there to burn off some sec status but I just believe low sec is where they intended -10 pirates to be.
They nerfed privateers when they had every highsec carebear alliance wardecced, they gave a much harder hit to security status when the goons started nailing miners, now pirates with -10 have gotten around that security hit and are just nailing people in highsec for giggles, because they dont really lose much even if they all die. Why not right?
From their actions they dont want much in the way of piracy just going on in highsec. They want there to be that fear there and yes you can get blown up but they want it within reason. So they dont lose the biggest part of their subscriber base highsec dwellers. Im not saying its right or wrong thats just how i see it.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.03 22:14:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Bloss0m Now people can fight back and they can take out the pirate ...but really isn't that what low sec is for thats why we have the sec status system.
Well, it's certainly what sec status is for. After all, that's one of the benefits/penalties (depending on what side of the fence you're on) of having low status: people are now free to wipe you out wherever and whenever they like. Low-sec, however, is a different matter. Low-sec is where you can do anything you like, provided you do it out of sight. However, since sec rating already takes care of the problem of allowing you to hunt pirates, you don't need low-sec for that purpose any more. So, no: I can't see that that's what low-sec is for.
Quote: CCP wanted a way to keep pirates with low sec status in low sec and out of highsec.
Really? They've expressly allowed them to enter (they gates let them through). They've expressly given them an avoidable automatic response (defeatable and avoidable navies). They expressly given them safe passage if they really behave (fly in a pod). Seems to me that CCP most definitely wants to have pirates in high-sec, but they want them to have to jump through some hoops to get there. Heck, they even warn about high-sec piracy in the tutorial(!)
Quote: Its pretty obvious by the way the game was laid out ccp wanted highsec semi safe... you can kill people but your gonna have to go work off the sec status before you come back in.
…and it is semi-safe — more than semi-safe in fact, given all the advantages non-criminals have. And as mentioned, they already let the criminals back in — you only need to work on your sec status if you want to go there peacefully. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Maren Maen
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Posted - 2009.01.03 22:25:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Yes all these changes.
Or
- Actualy play the game and dont go afk with a **** load of loot?
Its so simple. I dont understand why people dont do it. Mind Boggling.
SKUNK
Manually warp to zero, wait, spam jump key, wait, warp to zero, wait, spam jump key... repeat about 75-150 times per day.
ZOMG!!! excitement!! Seriously, if that's your idea of "playing" anything, then you must be the most boring person alive (and I imagine, just barely so). People AFK travel because, frankly, 95% of eve is shockingly boring; a good chunk of that can be mitigated by turning eve into a glorified chat room. This leaves 5% as actual genuine entertainment.
Everyone knows this who has played for any length of time, we just accept it because we like being apart of the "eve universe". *****ing at people for trying to make eve life slightly more pleasant for themselves just demonstrates some combination of masochism (because you have to put up with it too), callousness (because empathy isn't in your vocabulary), and narrowmindedness (because not all are as hard core as you, sir).
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Sorted
Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.03 22:27:00 -
[182]
i have played for years, I dont use AP when there is ISK in ma cargo or fits.
It doesnt take much now does it?
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.01.03 22:31:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Maren Maen
Manually warp to zero, wait, spam jump key, wait, warp to zero, wait, spam jump key... repeat about 75-150 times per day.
ZOMG!!! excitement!! Seriously, if that's your idea of "playing" anything, then you must be the most boring person alive (and I imagine, just barely so). People AFK travel because, frankly, 95% of eve is shockingly boring; a good chunk of that can be mitigated by turning eve into a glorified chat room. This leaves 5% as actual genuine entertainment.
Everyone knows this who has played for any length of time, we just accept it because we like being apart of the "eve universe". *****ing at people for trying to make eve life slightly more pleasant for themselves just demonstrates some combination of masochism (because you have to put up with it too), callousness (because empathy isn't in your vocabulary), and narrowmindedness (because not all are as hard core as you, sir).
You chose the wrong profession mate or are doing it wrong. I have a few characters that do different professions and nothing even remotely like this is required. You can if you want to, but I don't want to and I don't need to.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.03 22:31:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Maren Maen
Originally by: Le Skunk
Yes all these changes.
Or
- Actualy play the game and dont go afk with a **** load of loot?
Its so simple. I dont understand why people dont do it. Mind Boggling.
SKUNK
Manually warp to zero, wait, spam jump key, wait, warp to zero, wait, spam jump key... repeat about 75-150 times per day.
ZOMG!!! excitement!! Seriously, if that's your idea of "playing" anything, then you must be the most boring person alive (and I imagine, just barely so). People AFK travel because, frankly, 95% of eve is shockingly boring; a good chunk of that can be mitigated by turning eve into a glorified chat room. This leaves 5% as actual genuine entertainment.
Everyone knows this who has played for any length of time, we just accept it because we like being apart of the "eve universe". *****ing at people for trying to make eve life slightly more pleasant for themselves just demonstrates some combination of masochism (because you have to put up with it too), callousness (because empathy isn't in your vocabulary), and narrowmindedness (because not all are as hard core as you, sir).
It's fine to AFK autopilot. People do it all the time. I was doing it myself this evening.
Just don't do it in a poorly tanked ship with a highly valuable cargo.
Why is this simple principle so difficult to understand?
It's even laid out on CCP's own website! An umambiguous warning, with clear and simple advice on how to mitigate the risk. CCP's advice might look familiar, because it's the same advice as that given by the "whiney ganker nerds".
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Whiteknave
Caldari Whiteknave Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.03 22:42:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Malcanis
It's fine to AFK autopilot. People do it all the time. I was doing it myself this evening.
Just don't do it in a poorly tanked ship with a highly valuable cargo.
Why is this simple principle so difficult to understand?
beats me. if i don't care about the ship, i afk autopilot. if i'm hauling a load of market goods (even in my t2 hauler), i'm warping to 0.
hi-sec space just means that it's safer than lo-sec space. however, "safer" doesn't mean "secure". seems simple to me.
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Whiteknave
Caldari Whiteknave Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.03 22:49:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Maren Maen
Manually warp to zero, wait, spam jump key, wait, warp to zero, wait, spam jump key... repeat about 75-150 times per day.
ZOMG!!! excitement!! Seriously, if that's your idea of "playing" anything, then you must be the most boring person alive (and I imagine, just barely so). People AFK travel because, frankly, 95% of eve is shockingly boring; a good chunk of that can be mitigated by turning eve into a glorified chat room. This leaves 5% as actual genuine entertainment.
do you afk autopilot your car while hauling your kids around (presuming that someone actually let you breed with them)?
i'm pretty much a carebear myself, and multi-jump warp to zero navigation is a boring PITA, but i still understand the concept that if you don't want to lose your ship, you don't leave your ship unattended.
would you go to the mall and leave your car unlocked and the engine running in the parking lot while you go shopping inside?
if you need to go afk from the game to take care of some other business, either dock your ship in a station, or go to a safespot and cloak (which is still risky).
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Bloss0m
Caldari Industrial death
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Posted - 2009.01.03 22:56:00 -
[187]
It really just comes down to I see it as if you blow someone up in highsec you have to actually do more than have a alt friend. I think you should have to work off that sec status before you can enter highsec and nail someone. When you break the law in highsec you should feel it and actually have to pick targets worth targetting or risk losing something. You gotta actually work for the juicy targets in highsec and if you want easy targets you go to low sec. Its pretty much a reversal for pirats...0.0 is filled with blobs and not much profit, 0.0 is semi dangerous with small profit, highsec is like 0.0 for carebears fat profits but you gotta work for it.
You say ccp intended for a person sec status to really not impact there ability to operate/pirate in highsec and its only there to make them jump through a few hoops. It also does open them up to player intervention more.
I can see where your coming from. I just don't really agree with it. If it becomes a widespread problem of -10 pirates in highsec killing people I have a feeling ccp will nerf it just like they nerfed/buff what they need to like they did with being able to tank concord, the privateer wardecs, suicide ganking sec hits. If not I cant imagine why any pirate in their right mind would be in low sec.
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.01.04 00:58:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Maren Maen
Originally by: Le Skunk
Yes all these changes.
Or
- Actualy play the game and dont go afk with a **** load of loot?
Its so simple. I dont understand why people dont do it. Mind Boggling.
SKUNK
Manually warp to zero, wait, spam jump key, wait, warp to zero, wait, spam jump key... repeat about 75-150 times per day.
ZOMG!!! excitement!! Seriously, if that's your idea of "playing" anything, then you must be the most boring person alive (and I imagine, just barely so). People AFK travel because, frankly, 95% of eve is shockingly boring; a good chunk of that can be mitigated by turning eve into a glorified chat room. This leaves 5% as actual genuine entertainment.
Everyone knows this who has played for any length of time, we just accept it because we like being apart of the "eve universe". *****ing at people for trying to make eve life slightly more pleasant for themselves just demonstrates some combination of masochism (because you have to put up with it too), callousness (because empathy isn't in your vocabulary), and narrowmindedness (because not all are as hard core as you, sir).
Boredom vs Losing tasty Isks and a ship.
Your choice.
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
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Posted - 2009.01.04 04:54:00 -
[189]
This thread now comes with added fail.
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Grendelsbane
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Posted - 2009.01.04 06:02:00 -
[190]
Edited by: Grendelsbane on 04/01/2009 06:03:53 Edited by: Grendelsbane on 04/01/2009 06:02:47
Originally by: Al Drevika Limiting? Please.
You have -10 sec with Concord. You freely pop in through the gate in your pod. Concord waves at you and asks if you're having a nice day. You jump into a ship your high-standing alt brought in for you, probably a ship you built from a BPO and have insured for more than you have into it. Find a juicy target, gank it. Alt picks up the cargo. Collect insurance on the ship Concord shot up such that CCP is actually *paying* you to do this. Wash, rinse, repeat.
And you can go back to nullsec and rat to get your standing back (but why bother, -10 really doesn't mean anything since Concord won't shoot pods).
Please, please tell me what is soooo limiting. I would love to hear it. The system is so slanted towards PvPers it's not even funny. Just change the rules to let any of us "carebears" to shoot low standing ships and pods without Concord intervention (since we're doing the job they fail to do). The howls of "unfair" would be music to my ears, and I would drink pie tears until I could drink no more.
No, it's "not sufficiently slanted against people you don't like initiating combat in ways you don't approve of for reasons that get your undies all in a bunch"
What you want is to be able to zoom about in hisec with no fear whatsoever of anything bad happening to you, preferably so that you can mine or autopilot on AFK or fly about showing off over-ISKed ships that you have no idea how to fit and even less of an idea how to fight with.
You're simply not going to get it, because the inability to do that is THE major distinction between EVE and damn near every other MMO.
Why don't you go learn some personal responsibility instead of whining for someone else to save you, eh?
I've killed a number of pilots with negative sec status in high sec - what the hell are you carrying on about for CCP to "let" you shoot at them? It's perfectly "fair", and perfectly POSSIBLE right freaking now. In any event, if you can't even cover your own ass in hisec you're not competent enough to take them on anyways.
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Maistro
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Posted - 2009.01.04 12:01:00 -
[191]
Protips:
Undock from that jita trading station in a frigate. Fly 300km away from the station and make a bookmark there. When undocking from the station, warp to the bookmark (this will happen instantly since you are already aligned and going at maximum velocity) and avoid any ganks that happen outside of station.
When warping to a gata at zero whilst having the route on autopilot, turn on autopilot mid warp. This will make the autopilot jump through the gate as soon as you land on it. When jumping turn the autopilot off again. Rinse/repeat.
Fit two warp core stabilisers if you are carrying precious cargo. Ganker will not be able to pin you down unless there are 2 or more of them. Better still, transport things in a skiff.
Do not mine next to a low security system. I have not tried this but pairing up with a mission runner and mining the veldspar inside of the mission will reduce the chance of you getting suicide ganked to next to nothing.
Fly a remote repair ship next to your afk hauler alt and clear up all wrecks from failed suicide ganks.
Thats all i can think of right now. Be back with more later.
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Discrodia
Gallente Independent Miners Guild
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Posted - 2009.01.04 12:09:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Discrodia on 04/01/2009 12:10:25 Cry little babies cry.
For goodness sake, you carebearing people need to get used to it. I've been sitting in highsec for almost all my character's life, survived 3 wars, one against a puppet of a large alliance, a brief stint in 0.0, and I have NEVER been suicide ganked.
It's hard enough as it is, the pilot has to basically get enough DPS out of his boat to kill yours in the 20 seconds before CONCORD arrives, he has to have the cash for this to be used repeatedly, and he has to be experienced enough to pull it off.
You can whine all you like, but to be honest I think it's just the IDEA that boo-hoo, someone can get at you in highsec. It's not an inpenetrable fortress, more like a fenced-off zone.
Honestly, I liked it more when there was still a tiny bit of risk in highsec. Now it's just a boring wasteland of belts and mission hubs.
Edit: Typo I like whales... I'm donating 300 mil towards an Orca BPO. Did you notice this is my sig? _______________ I mine rocks. Bigass rocks. :D
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Tanith Darkstar
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Posted - 2009.01.04 15:46:00 -
[193]
/me wonders how hard it would be for carebears to set up fleets simply to pop those afk ap piloting pods she sees warping to jita and other trade hubs...
Just think, if they got bounties on them... iskies! Yes I'm a forum alt... deals with it :-P
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Blastil
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Posted - 2009.01.04 16:49:00 -
[194]
If you want to 'take a break' from EVE DOCK UP. There are literally THOUSANDS of stations in Highsec, and there EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM will let you dock up with them. It's not like 0.0 where if you tried you would be fried by every person alive, or lowsec where you get camped in. In highsec you have EVERY TOOL NEEDED at your disposal to prevent loss to piracy. The situation is such that there are really only one kind of player who falls victim to suicide ganking, and those are the ******s who can't figure out how to adapt or die. The 'plague' of highsec ganking could be solved very, very simply, but you all refuse to do so. So no more whining. Seriously.
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.01.04 20:52:00 -
[195]
Let's count all the FAIL posts from gankbears since this post.
LeSkunk- EPIC FAIL FAIL FAIL Suitonia- FAIL Sorted- FAIL Piki- FAIL Seish- FAIL Malkanis- FAIL Whiteknave- FAIL Grendelsbane- EPIC FAIL Discrodia- FAIL Blastil- FAIL
Thanks to Tippia, QuiShon, Blossomm, Herr Wilkus, Polinus, Marin Maen, for staying on-topic with the intent of the thread (an adult discussion of merits or flaws in a proposal). The rest- FAIL. Go somewhere else. Play Halo MP online or something- more targets there.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.04 21:01:00 -
[196]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 04/01/2009 21:02:36
Originally by: Al Drevika Let's count all the FAIL posts from gankbears since this post.
LeSkunk- EPIC FAIL FAIL FAIL Suitonia- FAIL Sorted- FAIL Piki- FAIL Seish- FAIL Malkanis- FAIL Whiteknave- FAIL Grendelsbane- EPIC FAIL Discrodia- FAIL Blastil- FAIL
Thanks to Tippia, QuiShon, Blossomm, Herr Wilkus, Polinus, Marin Maen, for staying on-topic with the intent of the thread (an adult discussion of merits or flaws in a proposal). The rest- FAIL. Go somewhere else. Play Halo MP online or something- more targets there.
Quoting this so the OP cant delete it.
Clear evidence the OP losing it by shouting FAIL FAIL FAIL at any point he cant dispute
Forthose new to the discussion
1) OP took a 7 jump 200 million collatoral courier job for a paltry 2 million reward 2) OP charted a course, 7 jumps through highsec, would have taken 7 mins sat at keyboard playing the game 3) OP instead undocked, hit autopilot, and went to watch tv 4) OP was afk for around 30 mins on the gate in jita (the tv programme was very interesting for him) 5) OP got ganked for his loot 6) OP writes whine thread 7) OP is asked why he wasnt at jeyboard 8) OP lies about being called off to see his wife/kids 9) OP is asked why he didnt hit dock (takes same amount of time as hitting AP) 10) OP ignores question starts screaming FAIL FAIL FAIL EPIC FAIL to a selection of people in his thread.
SKUNK
TLDR: Noob tried to do something else at same time as playing eve, noob went afk on autopilot, noob lost cargo, noob whines and lies on forum
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
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Al Drevika
|
Posted - 2009.01.05 00:29:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Le Skunk
6) OP writes whine thread
Skunk ignores point of thread and ignores the fact that I NEVER whined about what happened to me (in fact, I NEVER even mentioned it- other people brought it up). I fully accept the consequences of my action. That doesn't mean that I agree that the game mechanism is properly risk-balanced. THAT, sir, is the point of this thread, something you continue to either miss or purposely ignore over and over again.
You don't think it's imbalanced- that's great. It's your right to say so. But trying to make this about me (it isn't) just makes you look buffoonish. That, sir, is your fail in relation to this thread. Be a child and rant all you want. The adults are not listening, we're having a nice adult conversation while you throw your tantrum.
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hedfunk
Caldari Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.06 00:10:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Al Drevika Edited by: Al Drevika on 05/01/2009 00:52:43
Originally by: Le Skunk
6) OP writes whine thread
Skunk ignores point of thread and ignores the fact that I NEVER whined about what happened to me (in fact, I NEVER even mentioned it- other people brought it up). I fully accept the consequences of my action. That doesn't mean that I agree that the game mechanism is properly risk-balanced. THAT, sir, is the point of this thread, something you continue to either miss or purposely ignore over and over again.
You don't think it's imbalanced- that's great. It's your right to say so. But trying to make this about me (it isn't) just makes you look buffoonish. That, sir, is your fail in relation to this thread. Be a child and rant all you want. The adults are not listening, we're having a nice adult conversation while you throw your tantrum.
It is a whine thread, you never would of wrote it if you never got ganked. You might not of mentioned it in your first post, but it was the motive behind the thread.
You're having a nice 'adult conversation' between those who agree with you, anyone who argues the point against you, you either ignore them, or call them FAIL or whatever. Pick up your dummy and dock up next time.
Socialist revolutinaries with guns = bad Iraqis with guns = Insurgent Terrorists Americans with guns = Patriots
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Karath Piki
Ordo Quaesitoris
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Posted - 2009.01.06 00:59:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Al Drevika Let's count all the FAIL posts from gankbears since this post.
LeSkunk- EPIC FAIL FAIL FAIL Suitonia- FAIL Sorted- FAIL Piki- FAIL Seish- FAIL Malkanis- FAIL Whiteknave- FAIL Grendelsbane- EPIC FAIL Discrodia- FAIL Blastil- FAIL
Thanks to Tippia, QuiShon, Blossomm, Herr Wilkus, Polinus, Marin Maen, for staying on-topic with the intent of the thread (an adult discussion of merits or flaws in a proposal). The rest- FAIL. Go somewhere else. Play Halo MP online or something- more targets there.
Hmm, apparently the fail is in your ability to accept certain mechanics within Eve. The problem you face is this: re-working how security status works with CONCORD is one of the things that simply cannot be changed. It was one of the big failures of AURORA events back in the day-- there is no ability to "turn off" the security system, and altering it would mean rewriting all of Eve just for that purpose, so protecting actors was simply no possible in empire space without getting CONCORDed. Perhaps these discussions about AURORA events were before your time, or you didn't care about them and didn't read the threads about them.
Altering the criminal system in ways other than adding or removing flags is not feasible. There is potential from faction police-- but they already react to people with negative sec status intruding into Empire space. They aren't going to sit there and pod people, that is also hard-wired into the basic code. The only times that happened were back when missiles were area effect weapons and a pod might have accidentally been taken out by the backwash from an explosion. And from past discussions relating to the AURORA events, I doubt that there will be any major changes to CONCORD behavior. The main values that determines CONCORD reaction is the sec status of the system and damage to another's ship.
So, proactively protecting what is yours, is your responsibility. Again, if you aren't willing to fight to protect it, someone else will fight to take it away from you in Eve. It's how the game is. Stop trying to make it what it isn't and what it cannot be.
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Ralarina
Caldari Vivicide
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Posted - 2009.01.06 01:25:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Al Drevika A sec status of -10 means nothing, other than the inconvenience of having to fly into Jita in a pod and jump into the ship your friend just dropped for you.
Apparently, EVE only allows Concord to scan a pilot's sec status when they come through the gate. Once they are in, they can jump into a ship and Concord won't notice their presence.
Is it me, or is this just dumb, and a loophole that needs to be closed? Hey, if you want to suicide gank me, that's fine, but the security hit you take needs to actually MEAN SOMETHING to you.
oh **** off.
--
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Mei Ree
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Posted - 2009.01.06 04:27:00 -
[201]
What I learned from this thread: EVE is a harsh, cruel world. If you fall into sloppy habits thinking that Hisec is safe, you will lose your ship and your pod.
What I also learned from this thread: Half the fun of suicide ganking is watching the victim cry delicious carebear tears all over the forums.
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Josh Causto
Gallente Fatalix Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 06:45:00 -
[202]
Edited by: Josh Causto on 06/01/2009 06:53:03 Clearly the obvious solution to all these problems is to sit in station and wait until you can walk around and buy pretty hats.
Originally by: Speed Devil
Originally by: ReePeR McAllem Everytime you fit anything other than a laser on our ships, babies die.
and when ya fit lasers on your ships nothing dies
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.01.06 07:07:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Al Drevika
I never thought of having to use a transport ship in high sec space, but true, that would fit two web scrams with the expanders (and the Bustard has the extra warp strength anyway, if I recall). I can afford, but it's out of the price range of a lot of people hauling. Something like 100 mil for the ship and skill book, I think.
Um. Dude. Its not like hapless noobs are being suicide ganked. If you are carrying enough isk value in mods/rigs/ships/implants that it becomes worth the suicide gankers time to gank you, 100 million isk to protect that investment doesn't seem unreasonable.
-Karl
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Suitonia
Gallente interimo
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Posted - 2009.01.06 07:09:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Al Drevika Let's count all the FAIL posts from gankbears since this post.
LeSkunk- EPIC FAIL FAIL FAIL Suitonia- FAIL Sorted- FAIL Piki- FAIL Seish- FAIL Malkanis- FAIL Whiteknave- FAIL Grendelsbane- EPIC FAIL Discrodia- FAIL Blastil- FAIL
Thanks to Tippia, QuiShon, Blossomm, Herr Wilkus, Polinus, Marin Maen, for staying on-topic with the intent of the thread (an adult discussion of merits or flaws in a proposal). The rest- FAIL. Go somewhere else. Play Halo MP online or something- more targets there.
You're not having an adult discussion, your just ignoring all the valid arguments and suggestions people are making and blindly agreeing with everyone who thinks suicide ganking is too easy.
You ignore the advise people give you about docking up. You're operating out of high security space, unless you are in Derelik or Khanid (which you're clearly not if you got ganked in jita) theres stations in almost every system. And should you not be in a system without a station it's a mere 1-2 minutes journey. You can also fit a cloaking device on your hauler, warp to a safespot/moon/planet and cloak should you find yourself needing to go afk in a non-station system.
Yes it's possible for a -10 to get into highsec, pick up a ship and then gank someone. But it's almost always on AFK targets (even auto-piloters are going to be difficult) since the co-odination and timing needed to catch a pilot at the keyboard makes it difficult.
You were also (I believe) flying a paper thin hauler and are ignoring anyone who tells you to fly something with a higher amount of EHP. If you really need to AFK and fly on autopilot with a valuable cargohold Fitting MSE II's, or armor plates and passive hardeners in the lowslots would also make you more difficult to gank, requiring more ships or a bigger ship to do. Which results in less isk for the ganker on a successful attack. A medium control tower only has a volume of 4000m3. Almost all the haulers can fit that with their base capacity so you have the slots to fit plates/shield extenders and passive hardeners. Or better yet, get a Transport ship which have much greater effective hitpoints.
In the end you're just plugging your ears to all valid arguments and screaming "LALALALAALLAALALALALAL". There was plenty of steps and methods for you to avoid being ganked, and you are refusing to aknowledge any of them.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.01.06 07:26:00 -
[205]
I heard tell of someone who assigned the MWD on their blockade runner to the F1-activation position, and then taped that button down and activated the autopilot. The MWD would then activate on each approach to a new gate greatly improving the speed at which the ship moved while the guy was AFK.
Never tried it myself so I don't know if that actually works in QR, but it's something to consider attempting. Obviously the taping of a keyboard button could be done with any ship of course, if you don't have the skills for a BR, it's just that of all the haulers the BRs get the best boost from propulsion mods.
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Lei Merdeau
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.06 10:04:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Al Drevika
- Make taking or destroying player wrecks/loot in high sec a Concord offense (drive down the sec status of the looting alts).
Absolutely against. As a just out of trial empiree, I'm making most of my ISK from salvaging wrecks that others have left behind. I'm harming who? Looting flashes red, you want more?
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 10:18:00 -
[207]
In short: if you think it's still too easy for suicide gankers then the obvious course of action is to STOP MAKING IT SO EASY FOR THEM.
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Ocih
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.06 10:26:00 -
[208]
When a bunch of -10.00 people gank me in Jita, I will get back to you.
Hasn't happened yet. |
Blue Harrier
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.01.06 10:55:00 -
[209]
IÆve only been playing Eve for a little over 6 months so my thoughts may not count but from the word go I discovered even in high sec you must fly armed and tanked even if your mining.
I always fit guns and where possible carry combat drones when doing anything and never fly AFK or on autopilot if I canÆt afford to lose it. You never know who is watching you or sitting cloaked in your system as I found out last night when I was setting up my overview while cloaked and a ship warped in some distance away and cloaked not knowing I was already there.
But that is the fun of Eve you are never totally æsafeÆ if I want that I log out and letch at Lara Crofts backside and shoot a few tigers .
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 11:00:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Blue Harrier IÆve only been playing Eve for a little over 6 months so my thoughts may not count but from the word go I discovered even in high sec you must fly armed and tanked even if your mining.
I always fit guns and where possible carry combat drones when doing anything and never fly AFK or on autopilot if I canÆt afford to lose it. You never know who is watching you or sitting cloaked in your system as I found out last night when I was setting up my overview while cloaked and a ship warped in some distance away and cloaked not knowing I was already there.
But that is the fun of Eve you are never totally æsafeÆ if I want that I log out and letch at Lara Crofts backside and shoot a few tigers .
Prepare to be added to the "FAIL" list of people who "refuse to have an adult discussion".
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 11:21:00 -
[211]
Part of the problem imo is that officer modules (not sure if faction-fit ships typically get suicided often) do not give the owner protection/bonus commensurate with their value.
Say as an extreme example you fit an Estamels Invuln to your CNR instead of a CN Invuln, or a plain T2 Invuln - well there's 12b+ on your ship straight away but your resists haven't increased by an amount commensurate with the difference in ISK value. An Estamel Invuln'd CNR will still die quickly and effortlessly to a group of 6-7 Torped up insured Ravens that aggress anywhere in high-sec.
Whilst I agree that WTZ mitigates a lot of the danger, and anyone who AFK autopilots around Empire with anything valuable in their cargo or fitted to their ship is a bit of an idiot, I do think it is a bit unreasonable that you can be ganked on the other side of a gate or outside a station with absolutely nothing you can do about it - you can't tank it, you can't escape. That's not stupidity, that's just "wrong place at the wrong time". Is that fair?
Not sure really where I sit on this - people shouldn't be invulnerable in high-sec, but with suicide gank mechanics what they are and the fact that faction/officer module do not confer an a bonus commensurate with their ISK value it does seem skewed in favour of the gankers. 7 overloaded-torp Ravens have a very low cost of operation after insurance is taken into consideration.
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Lei Merdeau
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.06 11:32:00 -
[212]
ISK value is only what people are prepared to pay for it. The law of diminishing returns applies too. You are paying billions for that last 0.01%, and then there's the bragging rights.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.01.06 11:49:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Durzel Part of the problem imo is that officer modules (not sure if faction-fit ships typically get suicided often) do not give the owner protection/bonus commensurate with their value.
Say as an extreme example you fit an Estamels Invuln to your CNR instead of a CN Invuln, or a plain T2 Invuln - well there's 12b+ on your ship straight away but your resists haven't increased by an amount commensurate with the difference in ISK value. An Estamel Invuln'd CNR will still die quickly and effortlessly to a group of 6-7 Torped up insured Ravens that aggress anywhere in high-sec.
Whilst I agree that WTZ mitigates a lot of the danger, and anyone who AFK autopilots around Empire with anything valuable in their cargo or fitted to their ship is a bit of an idiot, I do think it is a bit unreasonable that you can be ganked on the other side of a gate or outside a station with absolutely nothing you can do about it - you can't tank it, you can't escape. That's not stupidity, that's just "wrong place at the wrong time". Is that fair?
Not sure really where I sit on this - people shouldn't be invulnerable in high-sec, but with suicide gank mechanics what they are and the fact that faction/officer module do not confer an a bonus commensurate with their ISK value it does seem skewed in favour of the gankers. 7 overloaded-torp Ravens have a very low cost of operation after insurance is taken into consideration.
I don't see a problem here. Cost-benefit analysis is done on everything you do. Sometimes it's just stupid to fit anything above a certain price range on your ship/clone. The stupidity isn't that someone got ganked. It's that he didn't do the cost-benefit calculation or ignored it. Considering risks is a part of that calculation. Don't fly anthing you can't afford to lose applies to everyone all the time. If you can afford to fit billions on a single ship with very little benefit in actually doing it, you had more isk than you had use for anyway.
I would say that if you got ganked in your uber fitted mission ship, it isn't going to be just because of random bad luck. Someone scanned you to make sure it would be worth the cost. They planned to kill you. It has very little to do with "wrong place at the wrong time". Fair is that the gankers get something for all the work they did and penalties they got and fair is that the ganked person had many options to avoid and minimize his chances of being a target. He took the risk and it didn't pay off. It happens.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2009.01.06 11:59:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Durzel Say as an extreme example you fit an Estamels Invuln to your CNR instead of a CN Invuln, or a plain T2 Invuln - well there's 12b+ on your ship straight away but your resists haven't increased by an amount commensurate with the difference in ISK value. An Estamel Invuln'd CNR will still die quickly and effortlessly to a group of 6-7 Torped up insured Ravens that aggress anywhere in high-sec.
You can't fly Titans or Motherships in empire, so I fail to see how your point is relevant.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 12:03:00 -
[215]
I just noticed that you can squeeze 275,000 EHP (omni) out of an Orca, combined with a shield regen to rival a mid-range mission ship, and still be able to carry more cargo than an Itty V…
Maybe you should try that — it just might be enough to let you AFK with some piece of mind… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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