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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Himnos Altar
Angry Hobos Interstellar Hobos
12
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Posted - 2012.04.15 09:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Gorki Andropov wrote:Darth, I likes your points BUT I VEHEMENTLY PROTEST THE RACIST IDIOM IN YOUR THREAD TITLE. A SCOT is a racist idiom?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascot_cap
okay, yes, blue loot DOES give out good ISK, great even. Yes, Nano-Ribbons sell for a lot. but you have to remember that if you're seriously doing Wormholes, you're doing it in a null-sec PVP environment WITHOUT local, where with no warning you can get a fleet or a bomb dropped on you (unless you're super diligent at D Scan and they weren't cloaked before dropping on you, AND Sleepers aren't warp disrupting you from 150km out). That raises the risk.
ADDITIONALLY, any serious attempt at playing with EVE's holes (lots of fun to be had playing in various holes) generally requires a POS for Ship Maintenance Arrays and Corp Hangars (Orca doesn't really cut it unless you're just probing the hole gently for a few hours), which requires fuel. Add the fact that you can no longer make PI fuel and have to import blocks (or at the very least ice products if you hit the jackpot of planets), and that anything less than a Large Tower generally isn't that worth it. Then you have to get ammo, additional ships, etc into the wormhole and to the POS without getting blown up.
And if that's not bad enough, if you get podded you better hope there's someone in the hole with scan probes that can get you back in because otherwise you are ******. BAck in K-space and the nearest entrance wormhole to your hole might be 40+ jumps away--if there IS one that day (C4s+ are generally buried 1 WH deep inside W space IIRC--ie no direct connection to K space, you need to go through WHs to get to K space--could be wrong on the Class number where it generally starts though).
so yeah, next time that you run incursions protected by CONCORD with your shiny ships, with a clone bay system two jumps away and a station hangar in which to put any loot/spare ammo in the system.....please continue raging against the blue tags and nano ribbons that the serious wormholers are getting.
I'm SURE CCP is listening. |
Masikari
State War Academy Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:
You're exagerating. Blue loot isn't really worth that much considering all the costs associated with aquiring it and the number of players it gets spread around to in most cases. In some cases it is a Wormhole Corps primary means of immediate income for its members as the real Sleeper loot gets used in manufacturing as do the majority of other materials aquired in Wormholes.
Not speaking for the wormhole raiders here, just the Corps that actually live there. As for those other chaps, I'm sure they get what they get based on what class of Wormhole they are raiding and how long they spend there.
You also have to consider time investment here. Wormholers probably have one of the highest time requirements placed on them with regard to managing their POSs, mining Gasses, Scanning, and running Sleeper sites which aren't exactly as common as missions or even remotely frequent spawners. Then there is just general time spent scouting and watching and spying/surveiling, which accounts for almost half of any wormholers time in game provided they actually make an effort and don't just show up to blow up Sleepers.
In all, it has a high burnout factor for anyone that actually invests in it actively in game, and you want to take away the one relatively guaranteed payout for all that time invested. Good job.
This. You hit the spot, sir.
Plus FYI, Darth, WH's did get a big nerf when CCP changed the sleepers so they nueted ships. And it's been said before many times... THE RISK. WH's are riskier that Null because there is no local intel. If blue-loot is bringing in as much ISK as Incursions then Incursions need to be nerfed more, because there is very little risk in comparison. But you shouldn't even compare WH's to Incursions anyway - two VERY different arena's.
Please answer this - have you ever LIVED in a WH? If not (and I don't think you have) go try it for a month and then tell me we shouldn't get rewarded for our efforts.
Here's what we have to do to get our 'over priced' blue loot out: 1) Run the site (I won't even mention the agony of getting a Carrier into a WH to run the sites) and run the constant risk of getting jumped - which is a very common occurence 2) Salvage the site, all the time watching D-Scan and running the risk of getting jumped 3) Scan down our exit into a C2 4) Scout the C2 5) If it's too active we have to close the WH. Takes about 20 mins and holds a lot of risk in either getting jumped or trapping a ship in the other WH 6) Scan down the C2. If there is not a HS/LS/suitable WH exit, repeat point 5 7) See if HS/LS exit is suitable. If not, repeat point 5 8) If the adjacent WH to the C2 is no good, repeat point 5 9) If we are lucky with the exits, we get the loot out. But there is the constant risk of things like warp bubbles, hictors, bombers -the list goes on and on- in the other holes from either roaming gangs or the occupants 10) Do our best to avoid suicide gankers cos we're carrying precious lootz
And you think we should be penalised for this effort? Do you not think there should be a drop of compensation for the amount of ships we lose by choosing WH life? |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
572
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Blue loot could be turned into something craftable and sold to players instead of NPCs
Ummm no it can't you are talking about something else.
Could as in should. English is not my first nor second tongue Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Kaahles
Jion Keanturi THE UNTHINKABLES
3
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
Guess you're talking about the incursion nerf stated in the devblog? If because of that you want a WH nerf you're a moron. Sorry but it's as simple as that.
It's not even a ******* nerf. To Vanguards maybe but all it does is a balancing of the sides. Now the more difficult Assault sites actually pay more than the easier vanguards. Which is how it should be.
There were two ways of doing it. Upping the reward of Assault/HQ sites relative to VG's or just lower the output of VG's which is the more reasonable thing to do since we already have a problem with way too much isk coming into the game.
The drone region nerfs are not a reason either because the stupid drone alloys were a mistake from day 1 it should never have happened to begin with.
Besides... I do this stuff (WH's / Incursions) just to get some variety into my ISK making there are much more effective and profitable ways for me anyway. No I won't tell you what it is (pro tip: it's not single thing it's a combination of several things to keep it interesting).
With that being said... all back in your cages! |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
60
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
babby upset over the vanguard nerf wags his finger at the infinitely more risky forms of isk making in the game |
Kaahles
Jion Keanturi THE UNTHINKABLES
3
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:babby upset over the vanguard nerf wags his finger at the infinitely more risky forms of isk making in the game Damn basically says the same as my wall if text but with less effort... need more coffee |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
103
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
sometimes i think the people going on about nerfing wormholes have never actually gone throught he proccesses of actually doing stuff in said wormholes. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
467
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Posted - 2012.04.15 11:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote: should be cut in the name of balance.
Yeah if you take a 1 kg weight off from both sides of the scales surely that will make a difference and balance the scale again. |
XIRUSPHERE
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
216
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Posted - 2012.04.15 11:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
Wormholes have built in checks and balances such as hard farming depleting systems and the inherent risk in operating in the most dangerous space in eve while juggling logistic hurdles that make all but the most dedicated fold. The income from these ventures is spread over a multitude and is well earned by the sheer effort put in.
Incursions on the other hand are the epitome of reward without risk, purposefully exploited to a maximum degree while mitigating risk to the point where inflation is tangible as the only goal becomes extreme wealth accumulation for a narrow band of players who are fine with broken mechanics as long as they benefit and continue to perpetuate an air of exclusivisity. This has created a culture of entitlement even more dangerous than the cartels that control the vast sums of moon wealth in the game.
The difference is effort and risk, incursions are about neither and about maintaining this broken mechanic at all cost. At least major moon holders readily admit its broken and seek a fix while having worked towards their goal and maintaining it. The drone nerf has been also needed as a solution as it made mining worthless along with gun mining in highsec.
Your lp is worthless because your mechanics are worthless, too much reward, too much supply, too much saturation coupled with greed equals poor ratios. You are deluded and deserve quite more to fix this broken feature. The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.
One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear. |
Hikaru Kuroda
Shimai of New Eden
47
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Posted - 2012.04.15 11:07:00 -
[40] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:2) there is infinitely more risk in wormholes than in welfare incursions
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Michael1995
Lead Farmers Academy Kill It With Fire
0
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Posted - 2012.04.15 11:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
The main difference between incursions and WHs is the fact that there is no local, meaning that anyone can come in and whack your knackers off.
The only risk coming with incursions is pilot failure (Wrong trigger, stupid Logi) and massive blackbird squads, which can be avoided if seen coming (Dscan is a LOVELY tool). Whereas anything can happen to you while running sites in a WH. I know I've personally stalked a system for a week just to kill a noctis.
About the sleeper neuts: They were originally meant to neut, but were broken for 1.5 years+ until they fixed it.
Also don't forget to nerf mining, they might actually make some money off the increasing mineral prices.
One does not simply buy their way into Goonswarm. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1220
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Posted - 2012.04.15 11:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
Roime wrote:Yes, all bounties should be removed and turned into "blue loot", like tags that you need to sell to NPCs to receive any ISK .
This is the way I'd prefer to see it go. Though I'd go a little further and stop NPCs dropping T1 loot at all: they can drop bits and pieces which capsuleers reverse engineer to get high-meta T1 items.
Blue loot is just the same as bounties for everyone else. Why should they get nerved? People are leaving wormholes to go run Incursions because Incursions are so much easier and safer! |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
191
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Posted - 2012.04.15 11:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Roime wrote:Yes, all bounties should be removed and turned into "blue loot", like tags that you need to sell to NPCs to receive any ISK . This is the way I'd prefer to see it go. Though I'd go a little further and stop NPCs dropping T1 loot at all: they can drop bits and pieces which capsuleers reverse engineer to get high-meta T1 items. Blue loot is just the same as bounties for everyone else. Why should they get nerved? People are leaving wormholes to go run Incursions because Incursions are so much easier and safer!
I also support the idea of reverse engineering meta1 to 4 from dropped 'salvage'. And the blue loot is obvious a big ISK faucet, that might be looked at, perhaps by removing the buy orders and using it for some other manufactorry purpose.
I don't think there are that many WH-peeps switching over to Incursions though, maybe some of the ones in low WH with small, inactive corporations, but iIn a good WH-corp you can make twice as much ISK/hour then the shiniest VG-blitzers. When making that much money, the only risk that can even put a dent in your wallet is if you get evicted, and that's almost impossible with well-organized occupants. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
62
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Posted - 2012.04.15 11:42:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:People are leaving wormholes to go run Incursions because Incursions are so much easier and safer!
it's not just wormholes. holding sov in nullsec is a laughing riot these days and the only special thing about it is the ability to build supercaps.
line members are better off running incursions in hisec via alts than running anoms in fully upgraded systems and the primary means of alliance level income - moons - does not require sovereignty.
the reasoning behind wanting incursions nerfed (or at least limited to lowsec) is not empty |
Hatt0ri Hanz0
Life sucks then you die Ltd.
3
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Posted - 2012.04.15 11:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
The downward spiral that is the price of nano ribbons is nerf enough. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
191
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Posted - 2012.04.15 11:52:00 -
[46] - Quote
Hatt0ri Hanz0 wrote:The downward spiral that is the price of nano ribbons is nerf enough.
I'm guessing that comes from more and more people in W-space and no good way to kick them out. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
Elyssa MacLeod
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
71
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Posted - 2012.04.15 12:25:00 -
[47] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally"
And yet, behold the power of tears as theyre nerfing them anyways
Lanasak wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:People are leaving wormholes to go run Incursions because Incursions are so much easier and safer! it's not just wormholes. holding sov in nullsec is a laughing riot these days and the only special thing about it is the ability to build supercaps. line members are better off running incursions in hisec via alts than running anoms in fully upgraded systems and the primary means of alliance level income - moons - does not require sovereignty. the reasoning behind wanting incursions nerfed (or at least limited to lowsec) is not empty
best way to troll 0.0 is earn money is high sec. Im amazed you all havent drowned in your tears by now
You ever think the reason you get so little money in 0.0 is cause of your corp leaders? Its not CCPs fault, its yours GM Homonoia: Suicide ganks are a valid and viable tactic in EVE.
Where is your God now carebear? |
Jovan Geldon
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
407
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Posted - 2012.04.15 13:02:00 -
[48] - Quote
I HAVE A CAPS LOCK BUTTON TOO |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
64
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Posted - 2012.04.15 13:13:00 -
[49] - Quote
Elyssa MacLeod wrote:best way to troll 0.0 is earn money is high sec. Im amazed you all havent drowned in your tears by now
You ever think the reason you get so little money in 0.0 is cause of your corp leaders? Its not CCPs fault, its yours
what in the world are you talking about |
Testerxnot Sheepherder
DeadHeads - Question Authority Crew
92
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Posted - 2012.04.15 13:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
BEAM ME UP SCOTTY |
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Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
305
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Posted - 2012.04.15 13:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
Because if CCP nerfed wormholes, WH pilots would then beat CCP to death with their massive balls. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |
Masikari
State War Academy Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2012.04.15 13:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:Elyssa MacLeod wrote:best way to troll 0.0 is earn money is high sec. Im amazed you all havent drowned in your tears by now
You ever think the reason you get so little money in 0.0 is cause of your corp leaders? Its not CCPs fault, its yours what in the world are you talking about
I second Lanasak's question to you |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
230
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Posted - 2012.04.15 14:10:00 -
[53] - Quote
Because WHs are far more dangerous and complex.
This is the tenth thread where you've mistaken efforts to balance risk and reward across the different space types as some one-minded effort to curb inflation. The biggest goals are to balance risk and reward and to make mining a viable profession again; inflation reduction as a a monetary policy of sorts is a comparatively less pressing concern.
tl:dr qq for the incursion bears |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
148
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Posted - 2012.04.15 16:30:00 -
[54] - Quote
Elyssa MacLeod wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" And yet, behold the power of tears as theyre nerfing them anyways
CCP's left handed nerfs brings to mind a tennis match between 2 blind players. They say too much ISK is entering the system so what do they do: nerf the activity that is "not a big issue in terms of isk globally" and expect to see results after introducing a whole new ISK FOUNTAIN. ccp SOUNDWAVE's already stated that we'd better expect a 10% nerf across the board on bounties due to inflation. Bounties do NOT affect the ISK fountain in Worm Holes. Without true balance & a nerf in WormHoles which the rest of the Eve Universe is getting what we are about to see is yet another BLIND SERVE WHICH WILL SMACK THE OTHER BLIND TENNIS PLAYER SMACK IN THE SIDE OF THE HEAD OR RIGHT BETWEEN HIS LEGS INTO HIS BALLZ To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
4
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Posted - 2012.04.15 16:38:00 -
[55] - Quote
incursion accounts for 1/3 of bounty, so it means before incursion, we wouldnt have that 1/3, why dont we just REMOVE incursion ENTIRELY, that totally will solve the inflation issue.
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
148
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Posted - 2012.04.15 16:45:00 -
[56] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote: Wormhole blue loot accounts for 1/3 of bounty, so it means without WH blue loot, we wouldnt have that 1/3, why dont we just REMOVE blue loots ENTIRELY, that totally will solve the inflation issue.
FIXED
(and WH's still have nano ribbons which lets face it are much more profitable then Incursions)
To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
352
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 16:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
Degren wrote: [...] Because you're stupid.
^^^That^^^
[/thread]
In irae, veritas. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
352
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 16:55:00 -
[58] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote: [...] Blue loot is a ISK FOUNTAIN that injects as much ISK into the EVE economy as incursions do on a monthly basis Between 8-10 trillion ISK 1/3 or less of what bounties inject. Difference between Incursions & sleeper income: sleeper income also on top of that gives ribbon salvage which DWARF'S incursion income ( no appreciable salvage in incursions )
For Gods' sakes, will you please just stop posting? In irae, veritas. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
352
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 16:56:00 -
[59] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:There is one thing that needs to be nerfed if all these others go into effect.. AFK Cloaking. Not sure about Wormholes tho.
You:
Uninstall.
Now.
In irae, veritas. |
seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
131
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 17:02:00 -
[60] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Apolyon I wrote: Wormhole blue loot accounts for 1/3 of bounty, so it means without WH blue loot, we wouldnt have that 1/3, why dont we just REMOVE blue loots ENTIRELY, that totally will solve the inflation issue.
FIXED (and WH's still have nano ribbons which lets face it are much more profitable then Incursions)
You sir have no knowledge of anything other than incursions, stick to that.
Blue loot is fixed per site, so if a site is cleared and fully escalated then the amount of blue loot obtained will be the same whether it was the first time the site was run or the 99th. Next nano-ribbons are random drops, you can run one site and get 30 on one occassion and get 1 nano-ribbon the next. Then there is the fact that 0.0 rules apply (bubbles, aggression mechanics, overall pvp). Finally there is that wormholes have no local, which has already been mentioned, so a cloaky hostile only needs to find your wormhole and in the case of running anomalies, doesnt even need to pop probes in order to find you, can practically warp directly to the site you're in.
Get a clue before crying that everything else needs to be nerfed after your high-sec overpaid incursions are getting changed |
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