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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.01.06 03:20:00 -
[1]
Mission-runners should be quite familiar with this particular mission (available at all levels AFAIK). The demands of the mission are quite simple (and always the same for a certain level), fetch a certain amount of a basic ore type for the agent (Veld for L1, Scor for L2, Omber for L3, Kernite for L4). In return, you get some token bonus cash and a random +X attribute implant (where X is the level of the storyline mission).
THE PROBLEM with the mission lies in the fact that the requirements are way too easy to fulfill, and you know them well in advance. The typical scenario is player gets his industrial, goes to pick up the needed ore from the market, goes to the agent with ore in tow (if he didn't already have a big chunk of it at the agent), takes the mission and turns it in almost instantly after. As a result, this mission has an ABYSMAL average completion time, with the "bonus timer" so small no other mission can possibly match it. The troubling thing however is that a small average completion time means a very small standings increase reward, and a quite high likelyhood of people getting that specific mission from their storyline agent.
Some of you might consider it a minor annoyance, but for most others (myself included) it's borderline nerve-wrecking. Personally, it is my belief that something must be done about this particular mission. Now, exactly what is a matter of debate.
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS
1. Removing, or at least temporarily disabling the mission (at least the L3 and L4 versions).
It's the most drastic, yet very low "cost" (coding-wise) effective solution... I daresay, almost no cost at all. There are plenty of other interesting storyline missions, and basically all LP shops sport learning implants, so any negative side-effects from its removal would be minimal.
2. Bottom-capping storyline mission rewards (at least for this one) to a much higher value than normal.
This would mean that even if the mission remains unchanged, it will no longer suffer from the current issue. It's a band-aid solution, but has no significant noticeable (to me right now, anyway) drawbacks, and should also be relatively low-cost in its implementation. It's certainly a more desirable alternative to the mission's removal, but might still have some unintended consequences I didn't think of. However, I am quite sure any possible drawbacks will be far outweighed by the overall benefits of this change.
3. Randomizing the mission and hiding the objective before taking the mission.
By randomizing, I mean NOT asking for raw ore, instead asking for T1 modules, empire-specific - the mission could even provide you with BPCs for the needed quantities so you can build them in case you can't find them on the market. Peronally, I believe this makes more sense given the title and description of the mission anyway. And by hiding the objective, I mean you being unable to just fetch the items beforehand, you would need to accept the mission first. The problem with this however is that it would need some (probably large) coding work in the way missions are handled. Not a bad thing per se, but this means it might take a while to finish, and the problem is way past due for a solution. This last version is the most desirable one in my opinion, but also carries the highest "cost" in terms of CCP workload.
Well... feedback ? Opinions ? Suggestions ?
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.01.06 07:07:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Vaal Erit on 06/01/2009 07:09:33 Remove it. Fetch missions are the most boring in EVE. Storyline missions are supposed to be cool, plugging in a BPO or grabbing a hauler is not really cool. I believe they are planning epic story arcs to replace storyline missions so I think this is moot. --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.01.06 08:23:00 -
[3]
It makes little sense to have a storyline mission that spans over 16 missions itself, that would kind of be counter-productive if a new storyline would be triggered by the previous storyline's first arc before it even finishes, so I think the "epic" arcs are supposed to be regular missions, not storyline missions. But I might be wrong (doubt it though) and some of them are planned for storylines too, no idea how they would plan to handle the "infinite storylines" loop that could form then.
P.S. Added support for OP _ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Treelox
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2009.01.06 08:39:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Treelox on 06/01/2009 08:39:06 HOW DARE YOU ATTEMPT TO RUIN MY ORE RESELLING BUSINESS!!!
/end emo nerd rage
Yeah I got to agree that these missions are just too easy to do, not very imaginitve and just plain suck.
I will miss the easy isk though of selling to people to lazy to fetch their own ore though.
--edit apparently my thumb broke the first time through --
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2009.01.06 09:57:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 06/01/2009 09:57:17 Option:
4: substitute the normal ore with a mission ore like in the other mining missions. Change the agent text so I say that he want the mineral for testing purposes and development of new alloys, et voila, you have a mission that require you to spend the time mining after you get it.
Your option 3 is interesting but it is a idea for a new mission.
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Molock Saronen
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Posted - 2009.01.06 10:33:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Molock Saronen on 06/01/2009 10:33:40
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 06/01/2009 09:57:17 4: substitute the normal ore with a mission ore like in the other mining missions. Change the agent text so I say that he want the mineral for testing purposes and development of new alloys, et voila, you have a mission that require you to spend the time mining after you get it.
And then what? I assume you'll still have to get that ore by some method. Like for instance mining??? I'm a miner myself, NP. But getting 8K kernite for instance for someone without any decent mining skills??? It's a faction mission. Shouldn't be dependant on skills other than 'missionrunning' type skills. Better disable it for now and change it to retrieving some 'minerals', something like the the quafe retrivial mission 'Cargo delivery'. But nastier. |
Gone'Postal
Aztec Industry
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Posted - 2009.01.06 11:35:00 -
[7]
Just disable it tbh, it's way to easy lol..
Oh it's this mission, > market > buy > accept > finished > leave station.
Got Mine?
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.01.06 12:10:00 -
[8]
Just disable it. Last year I ran lvl 4 missions for a few days to buffer up my wallet and this PoS(not player owned structure) mission was the only storyline I got. The station that gives the mission is full of people selling of the required ore, so it's just one extra implant at reduced price and then back to grinding the same missions. Storyline missions whould be something more interesting anyway.
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Ankhesentapemkah
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Posted - 2009.01.06 12:13:00 -
[9]
Disable this abomination or set a fixed reward and rig the timer. ---
NEW MOVIE! |
Bunyip
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Posted - 2009.01.06 12:27:00 -
[10]
This mission isn't wrong by any extent. Even in normal mission running, you have your petty missions (Alluring Emanations, Duo of Death, et al). This is kind of the 'booby prize' storyline mission, as it doesn't improve your standing much at all.
If you remove this mission (which, mind you, I'm not saying that it would be a bad thing), you should also remove the other childishly easy missions (Surprise Surprise, Cargo Delivery for people who know the blitz, etc). If you make the mission harder, you should also improve the rewards (both ISK and standing wise).
While I'm kinda riding the fence on this one, I see no real reason to remove the mission, but it could stand some improvement.
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.01.06 12:59:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 06/01/2009 13:01:31
Originally by: Bunyip This mission isn't wrong by any extent. Even in normal mission running, you have your petty missions (Alluring Emanations, Duo of Death, et al). This is kind of the 'booby prize' storyline mission, as it doesn't improve your standing much at all.
If you remove this mission (which, mind you, I'm not saying that it would be a bad thing), you should also remove the other childishly easy missions (Surprise Surprise, Cargo Delivery for people who know the blitz, etc). If you make the mission harder, you should also improve the rewards (both ISK and standing wise).
While I'm kinda riding the fence on this one, I see no real reason to remove the mission, but it could stand some improvement.
As Akita said the biggest problem is that:
"The troubling thing however is that a small average completion time means a very small standings increase reward, and a quite high likelyhood of people getting that specific mission from their storyline agent."
If the completion timer didn't effect things, I wouldn't have much reason to complain, since I do trades on the dirt cheap implants these missions provide. I do understand your point though.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.06 17:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Molock Saronen Edited by: Molock Saronen on 06/01/2009 10:33:40
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 06/01/2009 09:57:17 4: substitute the normal ore with a mission ore like in the other mining missions. Change the agent text so I say that he want the mineral for testing purposes and development of new alloys, et voila, you have a mission that require you to spend the time mining after you get it.
And then what? I assume you'll still have to get that ore by some method. Like for instance mining??? I'm a miner myself, NP. But getting 8K kernite for instance for someone without any decent mining skills??? It's a faction mission. Shouldn't be dependant on skills other than 'missionrunning' type skills. Better disable it for now and change it to retrieving some 'minerals', something like the the quafe retrivial mission 'Cargo delivery'. But nastier.
Why? we have mining missions, so why not have mining storylines?
Storylines you don't want or couldn't do aren't so uncommon. I have several alts with standing for level 4 mission for R&D and they are happy to get the material for war or the courier storylines. But when they get a combat storyline they are screwed, ad the whole combat skillset is racial frigates III to get the industrial and some small gun.
If that will not damage my main standing I will use him to do the mission and then deliver it with the alt.
Similarly a non miner getting a mining storyline mission can use an alt to complete it and then deliver with the character getting it. Or even ask a corpmate to do it for a compensation.
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CozmoKramer
Capital Shipyard
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Posted - 2009.01.06 19:03:00 -
[13]
Trivial storyline at best. Everytime I was given this mission, the ore was available in-station. The hard part of the mission was actually getting to the agent's system. On auto-pilot. In a shuttle. Yeah, it's that hard.
Remember when you started doing missions for standings (like for research agents) and you're grinding the little lvl1 missions. Then you get a storyline. W00t. Open Journal. Materials for War Preperations. Okay, what's the reward. +1 Charisma.
*facepalm*
Either make it harder (like the modules-based mission mentionned above) with better compensation (remove Charisma implants ?).
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FunzzeR
Counter Errorist Unit
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Posted - 2009.01.06 20:32:00 -
[14]
Supported
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chatgris
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Posted - 2009.01.06 21:14:00 -
[15]
Support options 1 or 2.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.01.08 15:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: chatgris Support options 1 or 2.
Why not also 3 ? Would be nice to have some variations (long-term)
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I SoStoned
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Posted - 2009.01.08 22:56:00 -
[17]
Curently storylines are a huge yawner at the least, or an utter annoyance at the worst.
Materials for war is just plain annoying, and a yawner. I've got stockpiles of the requested ore for the purpose. And then there's the 'move 40k of massive crap to a low security location'. This one makes me just want to hit somebody... talk about setting yourself up to loose a whopping chunk of faction standing because your hauler gets popped by the omnipresent prat squads on gates.
And the 'materials' mission gives a wholloping buff to standings, and an implant, compared to the 'move crap' mission.
IMO: Storyline missions should be identical to standard missions, just notably tougher, and give commensurate rewards (remember when you used to get stupid goods as mission bonuses?). But those rewards should: A- Not be in any LP store B- Be randomized, but worth working for regardless of the item.
Examples: - Stat implants that affect 2 or more attributes - Empire faction ships with 4 bonuses (like pirate faction) - T3 ship 'sections' unique to the race, but only avail through Storyline Mission rewards. - Low-grade implants, or entire implant sets (not very great compared to LP sets, but worth using).
There are many options that can be recieved through Storyline Mission rewards (not the bonus, the raw reward itself. The bonus would just be icing). Sort of like the stuff you get for completing COSMOS arcs.
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Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2009.01.09 09:38:00 -
[18]
While the ridiculously low standings increase of this storyline makes sense because it is so stupidly easy to complete, I would rather see it go.
Diary of a pod pilot |
Elena Morin'staal
Tau Online Explorator Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.09 10:39:00 -
[19]
It does seem to be pretty pointless. When I see this flag up, I open market, buy some ore, pick it up, accept and complete.
Then sell the implant for more than what I got from the mission.
It was great when I was just starting, as it gave me access to implants I'd not be able to afford without selling a GTC, but now its pointless. |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2009.01.09 11:13:00 -
[20]
scrap the mission and replace with something better thought out ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
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FT Diomedes
Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2009.01.09 16:55:00 -
[21]
Scrap it completely.
The price on +4 implants might go up a bit if you did that, which wouldn't be a bad thing at all, imo. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
Astria Tiphareth
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.01.10 11:55:00 -
[22]
Good points raised. Personally I'm leaning towards option 1 or 2 purely on the basis that there's some chance CCP might do it - 3 has potential, but much harder to get right, which reduces the likelihood of implementation any time soon.
Either way, a good thing to fix. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.01.10 14:09:00 -
[23]
Storyline missions should feel important, and raise the character's faction standings by a substantial amount. This mission should be changed to be a mining mission at the very least - ie, instead of Kernite bought off the market, you have to go mine the ore from a mission deadspace. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mara Rinn This mission should be changed to be a mining mission at the very least
Good idea. Added it as 4th option.
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.14 07:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Mara Rinn This mission should be changed to be a mining mission at the very least
Good idea. Added it as 4th option.
Post 5, unless you want to change it to a mining, non-storyline mission.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.06 15:10:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Akita T on 06/02/2009 15:10:53
For great injustice !
Seriously, nobody bothered enough by it ?
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Frecator Dementa
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Posted - 2009.02.06 15:14:00 -
[27]
After 1 year of mission grinding L3 + L4, my standing with Gallente Fed is only 5.60
The reason? This goddamn storyline mission: materials for war prep I used to get it 80% of the time, perhaps more
The rewards are a bloody insult to the work I put in to get acces to a storyline. |
Arthfael
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Posted - 2009.02.15 10:53:00 -
[28]
I fully support this thread. All of the given options are nice, although I like 4 more (mining alt ftw ^^)
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Doc Mexallon
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Posted - 2009.02.15 12:57:00 -
[29]
A nice side-effect of changing this mission is that the price of regular Kernite will drop to be commensurate with base mineral values. I always found it silly that regular Kernite sold for way more than the higher concentration ores, entirely due to this mission.
I was hoping that they could change the mission ore to something like either 8,000 kernite, 12,000 Omber, 16,000 Scordite or 20,000 Veldspar or something, with a 1/3 possibility in each category to ask for one of the higher concentration versions - Dense Veldspar or Fiery Kernite, for example. Hell, throw in Pyroxeres as well if you want (and any other ore which may be local to those regions). That way the mission remains as easy as it is, but the effort required to complete it will take far more than just stockpiling, or buying the same ore over and over again. If someone wants to maintain HUGE stockpiles of every possible ore and their variants in his storyline station, then full power to him, he deserves an easy storyline for his investment, but the rest of us need to get the mission, and spend some time working towards getting the ore before doing the mission.
The main problem remaining is that the ore you need is shown before you accept the mission, so people are still going to buy/mine/haul, then accept and complete without even closing the dialogue box, so the completion time is still going to be REALLY fast, and rewards are still going to be poor. At least it'll even out the demand for all ores, though. You could spawn a roid belt and only mark quest completed once it's mined dry, but it's not going to be fun for people who don't mine. Perhaps if there was a way to hide the actual ore you needed before accepting the mission...
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Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2009.02.16 02:21:00 -
[30]
All are good ideas --
Don't harsh my mellow |
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