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Damsel in Distress
20
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Posted - 2012.04.15 23:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I've heard about incoming changes on Destroyer and BC skills yet I'm currently specced to get my support skills up whilst learning to fly frigs properly - will I be totally screwed over if I don't remap to train destroyer, BC and racial frigs and cruisers up right now?
Will I even be able to finish all the skills before the changes are in effect and just waste 2 remaps?
When are the changes coming? How much time do I have before I have to train 4 times as long as any of you vets had to?
We're talking about more free SP than I currently have in total right now.... |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
609
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Posted - 2012.04.16 00:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
From all indications, it is still a fair ways off.
If it was my choice, I'd wait until CCP made a move about what direction they will take, as at this point it doesn't seem settled.
Even if you are not speced for it, you can still train it, just a bit slower. My research alt is mapped max intelligence and memory, and has trained to be an elite Tengu and jumpfreighter pilot. |
Degren
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
123
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Posted - 2012.04.16 00:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
As a newb who has a lot of skills to train, I went equal amounts Per / Int before the announcement. I dropped what I was training and trained each cruiser to III, BC and Dessie to V each...with +4s it took about 3 1/2 weeks total.
Not optimal by any means, but i wasn't really "screwed" aside from keeping me from upgrading stuff I actually wanted in the short term. |
Damsel in Distress
20
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Posted - 2012.04.16 00:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Degren wrote:As a newb who has a lot of skills to train, I went equal amounts Per / Int before the announcement. I dropped what I was training and trained each cruiser to III, BC and Dessie to V each...with +4s it took about 3 1/2 weeks total.
Not optimal by any means, but i wasn't really "screwed" aside from keeping me from upgrading stuff I actually wanted in the short term.
Edit: And agreed with above, it's very likely not coming til after May
Well - but that's the point - I started the account in early january and I knew the game a bit from previous trials (hence the name), so I remapped for int/mem right away and set up a one-year sklillplan.
Back then there was no mention of fundamental skill changes and XP gifts that would only benefit experienced players. If I have to, I'll remap to perception+willpower now and train destroyers to V along with all necessary frig and cruiser skills as that means a x4 multiplier in the long run.
However it will cost me two remaps and I have no guarantee all required skills will fit within the time frame. |
Degren
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
125
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Posted - 2012.04.16 05:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah, it's a ****** situation. I'm guessing you have until late May, early June at the earliest. No actual info has been put out about a time frame, but before they do it, they want to make destroyers more than a one-ship class and they want to make all the battlecruisers more balanced/more functional.
If you went per/will now, you could get them done in a few weeks and pick up some weapon skills before switching back. It sucks, especially if you want to cross-train, but if you're really worried its probably your best option
Edit: Also, you very likely have time to get the important int/mem skills to III at least before remapping |
Sin Pew
SWARTA Mostly Clueless
18
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Posted - 2012.04.16 08:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Damsel in Distress wrote:Degren wrote:As a newb who has a lot of skills to train, I went equal amounts Per / Int before the announcement. I dropped what I was training and trained each cruiser to III, BC and Dessie to V each...with +4s it took about 3 1/2 weeks total.
Not optimal by any means, but i wasn't really "screwed" aside from keeping me from upgrading stuff I actually wanted in the short term.
Edit: And agreed with above, it's very likely not coming til after May Well - but that's the point - I started the account in early january and I knew the game a bit from previous trials (hence the name), so I remapped for int/mem right away and set up a one-year sklillplan. Back then there was no mention of fundamental skill changes and XP gifts that would only benefit experienced players. If I have to, I'll remap to perception+willpower now and train destroyers to V along with all necessary frig and cruiser skills as that means a x4 multiplier in the long run. However it will cost me two remaps and I have no guarantee all required skills will fit within the time frame. You only need racial frigates to 4, to be able to inject racial cruiser and only need cruiser to 3, to have access to all T1 hulls up to battlecruiser. CCP confirmed you will be able to fly the ships you could already fly before the change occurs, so whatever they do, if you can fly it now, you'll be able to fly it after. That said, frigate 4 is 2d and 11h at the very worst conditions, cruiser 3 is 1d and 2h. So you would need roughly 2 weeks to have all T1 sub-BS hulls secured, starting from a blank toon. If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise; what it is it wouldn't be, and what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? |
Damsel in Distress
20
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Posted - 2012.04.16 09:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sin Pew wrote:
You only need racial frigates to 4, to be able to inject racial cruiser and only need cruiser to 3, to have access to all T1 hulls up to battlecruiser. CCP confirmed you will be able to fly the ships you could already fly before the change occurs, so whatever they do, if you can fly it now, you'll be able to fly it after. That said, frigate 4 is 2d and 11h at the very worst conditions, cruiser 3 is 1d and 2h. So you would need roughly 2 weeks to have all T1 sub-BS hulls secured, starting from a blank toon.
I think you misunderstood my question.
If I manage to train all races cruisers to V along with destroyers and battlecruisers V, I will likely receive all the new racial skills to V once the change is made.
I know that being able to sit in all races battlecruisers is quickly done, but that's not the issue here.
Worst case scenario: I remap to perc/will now, which would be somewhat annoying as my current int/mem skillplan would last until july. Then I start training all the required skills (all frigs IV, destroyers V, all cruisers III, battlecruisers V). If I do that, I'll finish at may 27th.
If CCP brings in the changes after that, I'm fine, if they do it before that date, training time for all racial battlecruiser V will suddenly jump from 20 to 80 days.
So I may end up with a wasted remap I didn't want to spend in the first place along with all races battlecruisers IV and 60 days of additional training time. |
Sin Pew
SWARTA Mostly Clueless
18
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Posted - 2012.04.16 10:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
What benefits would you get from having BC and destroyers trained to 5? (other than training time) If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise; what it is it wouldn't be, and what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? |
Damsel in Distress
20
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Posted - 2012.04.16 10:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sin Pew wrote:What benefits would you get from having BC and destroyers trained to 5? (other than training time)
They offer ship-specific bonuses per level of destroyer / battlecruiser-skill trained and unlock interdictors as well as command ships. |
Sin Pew
SWARTA Mostly Clueless
18
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Posted - 2012.04.16 10:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Then if you *need* to fly *all* racial interdictors *and* all command ships, then you're doing well using a remap to save up on training time. Otherwise, enabling Most T1 hulls and only skilling those you really need will save your remap for more useful stuff. Training a skill to 4 enables roughly 80% of the benefits for 20% of the skilling time needed to have it to level 5.
I only intended on pointing out the very limited benefits of training to level 5 some skills that don't open a lot of options since you're concerned with wasting a remap. If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise; what it is it wouldn't be, and what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? |
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Damsel in Distress
20
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Posted - 2012.04.16 10:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sin Pew wrote:Then if you *need* to fly *all* racial interdictors *and* all command ships, then you're doing well using a remap to save up on training time. Otherwise, enabling Most T1 hulls and only skilling those you really need will save your remap for more useful stuff. Training a skill to 4 enables roughly 80% of the benefits for 20% of the skilling time needed to have it to level 5.
I only intended on pointing out the very limited benefits of training to level 5 some skills that don't open a lot of options since you're concerned with wasting a remap.
Oh - I intended to use a remap to train ships, however my skillplan looks as follows:
1. Start account, remap int/mem ot get good navigatation, support, tanking and fitting skills - this will take me at least until july and includes a decent set of skills so I wont have to go back to int/mem - basically all the core certificates except targeting to elite along with good armor and shield tanking skills (roughly 12 million SP). 2. in july, remap to perc/will and train all gunnery, missile and spaceship command and drone skills (maybe - not sure if i use an extra remap on those).
As I plan to fly all combat ships below battleship size in the long run, I want all destroyers and battlecruisers V.
Now if someone from CCP could give a definite answer on when the skills are changed and what the reimbursement plan is, I could make a decision if I should spend a remap to quickly train them now and then spend another remap to go back finishing my support skills (2 remaps lost but two months of training saved) or if I'm not going to make it either way (2 months of additional training time compared to vets, but at least I saved my remaps).
The entire purpose of this thread is to avoid ending up in a situation where I spend 2 remaps just to end up in an unfinished mess. |
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression
129
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Posted - 2012.04.16 11:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Train for what you find fun and worry about little else.
This idea of maximum efficiency in training is a farce and usually leads to the "I can't do x untill I have y at lvl5" mind set, which will just lead to boredom and quitadge.
If you want to fly BC or already fly a BC then BC 5 can't hurt unless there's a stack of other support skills you're still after.
Admitedly I already have the skills people are talking about but if I were new and was training, the upcomming changes wouldn't effect my training plan.
But then I also don't care if I'm training nothing for a few hours\day or so |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
14
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Posted - 2012.04.16 17:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Any time someone asks a question in the New Citizens' Q&A about their bonus remaps, the answer is always this:
Invest all your stat points in an even Perception/Intelligence split.
Yes, there are more optimal builds for specific training plans. No, you should not be engaged in any of those training plans if you are still new enough to be asking questions in this section of the forums. If this is your first character, you should also not be worrying about BC V for a long time. |
Degren
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
131
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Posted - 2012.04.17 12:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:There are two conditions needed before we split the Destroyers and Battlecruisers skill in four:
- We need to overhaul destroyer and battlecruiser ships themselves. Cutting your ability to fly those ships by four without taking care of the underpowered hulls is a no go, because that would mean new players going for one racial line would have a hard time having valid options in these two classes.
- We need to have a very solid skill reimbursement plan set in stone. Most likely, we would take care of the Destroyer and Battlecruiser skill refund in one move to be done with it and avoid the same inconvenience twice for our playerbase.
So no, to my knowledge skill changes are not coming in April; what we are most likely going to start with is to have a look at the tech 1 frigates and cruisers, then move up as time passes, but nothing is fixed yet. We will do our best to let you know in advance if the skill changes are due for a specific release.
Just tossing this quote in here for reference |
MartyStonehouse
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.04.17 13:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
You have me paranoid.
First time hearing about this, where can i find out more about these changes? |
Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
105
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Posted - 2012.04.17 13:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
MartyStonehouse wrote:You have me paranoid.
First time hearing about this, where can i find out more about these changes?
From fanfest videos in youtube and from the actual dev blog |
Metal Icarus
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
114
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Posted - 2012.04.17 14:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Well it seems that the safest thing to do is just train BC V and Dessie V, as well as the pre-reqs for all four races. After the two V's, it takes about a week to get frig IV and crusier III of each race.
As for me? Just finished this today. I started when they announced it a fanfest. |
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