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WolfeReign
T.O.R. STR8NGE BREW
8
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Posted - 2012.04.16 05:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I need help deciding which one to fly (will eventually fly both but i want to get good with 1 before trying the other). They both seem to excel at kiting at 17km or so but which would I want to fly for small frigate gang or solo (aka they seem so close so its hard to choose). Also some general tactics/tricks |
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
63
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Posted - 2012.04.16 06:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
The common fit for a slicer is med pulses, scorch, disruptor and MWD. You'll be able to kite a lot of ships into oblivion.
The Retribution is the bigger boat: more tank and more dps. The Slicer however, is faster. A Retribution isn't quite fast enough to kite stuff yet isn't as overpowering in brawler range like some other AF. I haven't figured out a pvp role the retri is good at.
TL,DR: Slicer is kiting FTW. Retri I dunno. |
Darthewok
Perkone Caldari State
54
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Posted - 2012.04.16 06:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Slicer at 3099m/s has the speed to kite, Retribution at 2297m/s does not.
CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 |
To mare
Advanced Technology
20
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Posted - 2012.04.16 10:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
they both require the same base skills amar frig5 and small T2 pulse laser the retribution only require the extra skill assault ship at least at 4 so by the point you can fly the retri you will have the skill for the slicer |
WolfeReign
T.O.R. STR8NGE BREW
8
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Posted - 2012.04.16 14:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
ya for now i guess ill give the slicer a try just because with a set of lowgrade-Snakes I can zip around going over 4km/s |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp Black Thorne Alliance
304
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Posted - 2012.04.16 15:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
WolfeReign wrote:ya for now i guess ill give the slicer a try just because with a set of lowgrade-Snakes I can zip around going over 4km/s
The Slicer is a space Ferrari with gunz. It even has headlights! 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. |
WolfeReign
T.O.R. STR8NGE BREW
8
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Posted - 2012.04.16 22:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
ya so if I'm up against say a fire-tail who can easily fly faster then me how do I counter him long enough to burn through his tank before getting scrammed/webbed to oblivion. basically if I'm up against a frigate that can close range what are some general tactics I can use to make up for the lower speed (assuming I decide to fight and not run away). I'm asking this because my Slicer has like no tank and is set up to kite
[Imperial Navy Slicer, nano kiter] Price = 12-15mil
2x Medium Pulse Laser II (Scorch S)
1MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II
Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Overdrive Injector System II
Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints I Small Energy Collision Accelerator I Small Energy Metastasis Adjuster I
Stats: (assuming a set of LG Snakes since I will be using them)
Speed (assuming lvl4 nav skills)
4,316 m/s 6,166 m/s (overloaded)
2.48s align time 3.71s w/ mwd on
Damage/Range (with wolfe's skills)
120dps, 17.3km optimal, 3.1km falloff (Scorch) 151dps, 5.7km optimal,3.1km falloff (Imperial navy multi, will not be engaging at this range!)
Cap
-With either one off the mids off its cap stable -with everything but guns on its stable -everything running 1min 40s (should be fine when running everything if MWD is pulsed not perma runned)
Tank
stay at range and don't get hit..... |
Darthewok
Perkone Caldari State
56
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Posted - 2012.04.17 05:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Slicer cannot beat every frigate, it has to pick and choose its fights. Firetail is simply a bad fight for a Slicer. Try a Harpy/Enyo instead if you prefer something that can beat virtually all other frigates at the current time. CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 |
The Lobsters
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.04.17 17:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
The kiting Retribution can still get a respectable performance with a few prop mods in it's abundant low slots, nowhere near the Slicers luck but workable.
Generally with most Slicers, if you get on top of them they lose all their tricks. With a Retribution you are still looking at around 5k ehp with a tracking bonus that will give interceptors a hard time still.
The most striking difference is Amarr T2 resists. Un-bonused Warriors with kill a Slicer in about half a minute. It'll take the same Warriors two and a half minutes to kill the Retribution.
If it's tracking enhanced guns don't kill them first.
I'd rather go after a cruiser in a 'Bution |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest BricK sQuAD.
43
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Posted - 2012.04.18 11:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
You kinda need to take tracking and dps into account.
The retribution is a bit slower but it has the tank, tracking and dps to survive for a while in scram range. If you fit a gistii mwd it also has a small sig relative to non-interceptors (111m). You can get it up to 3km/s with cheap implants or more if you are running ganglinks so it's not 'that' slow.
I think all the advantages of the retribution kinda outweigh the loss of speed. |
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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1131
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Posted - 2012.04.18 11:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Darthewok wrote:Slicer cannot beat every frigate, it has to pick and choose its fights. Firetail is simply a bad fight for a Slicer. Try a Harpy/Enyo instead if you prefer something that can beat virtually all other frigates at the current time.
Enyo is a fecking "paper" dps and actually using it full gank is the way to go with, the tanked version has less dps but still respectable dps enough to face most cruiser players doing piloting mistakes or low skills. Fit it with 75mm for lols and shoot absolutely everything in max disruption distance for a decent dps. Love my Enyo
Blarpy is, hem, overpowered? -short range weapon like blasters shooting at rails distance and never miss, that simple.
Edit: I'd pick Slicer for tackle and support dps, for solo work Enyo and Blarpy everyday (ishkur too) |
The Lobsters
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.04.18 13:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Smabs wrote:You kinda need to take tracking and dps into account.
The retribution is a bit slower but it has the tank, tracking and dps to survive for a while in scram range. If you fit a gistii mwd it also has a small sig relative to non-interceptors (111m). You can get it up to 3km/s with cheap implants or more if you are running ganglinks so it's not 'that' slow.
I think all the advantages of the retribution kinda outweigh the loss of speed.
Just as an example, not a debate
[Retribution, New Setup 1]
Overdrive Injector System II Damage Control II Heat Sink II Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Fleeting Warp Disruptor I
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S [empty high slot]
Small Energy Burst Aerator I Small Energy Collision Accelerator I
Zor's Custom Hyper Navigation Link (15-20 mill. I love my Zor's)
209 dps o/h 17km optimal 4.5 align 3845m/s o/h 2m14s cap 137m sig radius 8153 ehp uniform 15759 ehp warriors
Now, it's not winning any races....
But it ain't bad, I'd take those odds.
I'd probably drop the DCII for a heat sink, overdrive or inertial stabliser depending on the situation
It's a good solid frig, but not so satisfying if you're looking to min/max |
WolfeReign
T.O.R. STR8NGE BREW
9
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Posted - 2012.04.18 14:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
IDK the retribution may get twice the ehp and a little more damage but the lower speed removes its ability to dictate range against alot of other frigates. Also if you're engaging in close range like you are suggesting then their is other frigates out their that get more dps and a higher tank within that range. The Slicer going at 4.3km/s (this is using LG Snakes) has a better chance of dictating range and making full use of the scorch optimal where most other ships in its class won't be able to hit it. At the same time a retribution would more then likely destroy a slicer IMHO just because it can match its range and has a higher tank at the same time, but that's understandable. |
Skelee VI
Wraithguard.
6
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Posted - 2012.04.18 15:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Since they added the mid slot Retribution can finally do some pvp. I would not kite with it, you are better off close range. Put scram on it and slap target around.I would not solo in it really either, slicer is better for that. But for a small gang retribution is good. The speed of the slicer is great bonus.
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The Lobsters
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.04.18 15:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
No two ways about it. The Slicer is bitchin'. It would get my vote as the best frig in space, hands down. Just hop in one and buzz around, and if it doesn't like the odds it can buzz off.
Just don't underestimate the 'Bution. It can hold it's own and does surprise people. On a busy grid I'd feel safer in one of them. And with it's tracking bonus even Conflag starts to have it's uses. The frigates that outrun it won't be killing it (caveat-Dramiels and Daredevils are a problem for every frig) For the MWD/Scorch routine it's a good all-rounder. |
Darthewok
Perkone Caldari State
57
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 16:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
WolfeReign wrote:IDK the retribution may get twice the ehp and a little more damage but the lower speed removes its ability to dictate range against alot of other frigates. Also if you're engaging in close range like you are suggesting then their is other frigates out their that get more dps and a higher tank within that range. The Slicer going at 4.3km/s (this is using LG Snakes) has a better chance of dictating range and making full use of the scorch optimal where most other ships in its class won't be able to hit it. At the same time a retribution would more then likely destroy a slicer IMHO just because it can match its range and has a higher tank at the same time, but that's understandable.
this^^ kiting retri can get kills, but its target selection is very poor, which is slow-ass frigates or dumb inty pilots, which the slicer can kill anyway. believe me, i want to love the retri, that hull is beautiful, but it is just lacking vs harpy/enyo for close range, and lacking vs slicer for kiting. CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 |
WolfeReign
T.O.R. STR8NGE BREW
10
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Posted - 2012.04.18 18:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
As I see things
1.Retribution
Pros -Decent tank -Decent close range dps -Can force any kiting frigate off the field with scorch -Better vs missile boats like drakes (compared to both ships using mwd, sig + missiles sutff)
Cons -compared to other brawlers it has generally lower ehp (when fitted with mwd, ab fit can pull off some nice ehp values) -meh brawler dps compared to other brawlers in its class (typical of lasers, but still has the benefit of hitting out to 20k with scorch if need be) -speed w/ MWD is average among frigates and in the long run afterburner fit may be better (as in can't be turned off by scram -through the bonuses given it feels like the ship is trying to do to many things (makes it a good all-arounder but is out performed in any specific area)
2.Imperial Navy Slicer
Pros -good kiter so has the gtfo ability most kiters have -has decent dps out to 20k with scorch -Is really good at dictating range and any close range brawler is completely at its mercy if flown correctly -ship + fittings only cost about 15mil and still performs great with no candy on it -may not be the fastest frigate but is far enough up there that as long as the enemy kiter isn't disengaging you can still put up a decent enough fight (you have the ability to win...but do you have the skill is the question here) -only thing that I don't think it can't atleast try to engage is a drake with precision missiles (even then it can easily disingage
Cons -Low EHP (once your webbed things get interesting -Base speed is not that great so if you do get stuck in scram range (webbed or not) it can be difficult to break out of
If I missed anything or stated something incorrectly feel free to correct me |
The Lobsters
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 18:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
I would say you'll probably find a Slicer more satisfying.
One thing I will say is I'm guessing your brawler Retri fit is using medium pulses? For brawling you'd find duals or gatlings better all round. Fit mediums for range. That close-up dps is eft dps. You'll get much better hit quality with the others. And that'll give you more fitting for tank/gank.
Slicers are so much fun, and dirt cheap at the moment. You can get one and a complex MWD, and still come out cheaper than other navy frigs.
Thank you Amarr milita mission runners! I bought ten today.
Buy the Slicer, and even if you can't kill anything they really can annoy the hell out of people
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WolfeReign
T.O.R. STR8NGE BREW
10
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Posted - 2012.04.18 19:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Besides any solo work I might try out in null I will mostly be with a frigate gang going around and messing some people up :) either way all the tests I have done have been on the test server (melted a rifter that got the better of me and managed to close range, barely lost any shield at all). So ya I'll be kiting around while my bros go down in a ball of flame :)
now for serious stuff I keep hearing people say that they can outrun Precision Heavy missiles. even overheating going over 6km/s the only way I can outrun them is to break range and burn away, thus losing point. Is there a trick to this or should I stop listening to rumors? |
Zarnak Wulf
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
318
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Posted - 2012.04.18 19:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Retribution can have one of the best buffer tanks of any AF out there. It doesn't take hardly any imagination to be sitting at 12k - 15k EHP. Since the obvious tactic against Amarr frigates is always, "Get on top of it!", I fit a small nuet too. The Retribution can outlast any active yank quite easily that way. It will also turn off the guns of a harpy/Enyo before they can burn through the buffer. Don't underestimate it. |
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Reno684
The Tuskers
9
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Posted - 2012.05.25 16:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think a lot of people are putting too much faith into the slicer. Slicer pilots die every day by just making the mistake of clicking orbit and thinking they're safe. Good pilots will slingshot them or bounce them off something and then you have a dead slicer. The retribution seems like its meant to kite up until it gets caught, and then switch from scorch to multi and bring fiery destruction upon its foes. I'm not an expert on either however so this may be wrong... |
Kaikka Carel
White syndicate Wormholes Holders
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 01:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
You should really try out the Slicer. It is literaly like a race car! It has a feeling of freedom about it. There is something special in cruising at 3km/s around the battlefield. The ease at which it dictates range is awesome. All-in-all it is an unforgetable experience. |
Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 07:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
Retribution is better than Enyo and Slicer. Harpy (220dps @ 24k) over both tbh. |
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