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DeadDuck
Viziam Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2012.04.16 11:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Any expectations regarding when they will hit Singularity ?
TY |
Sarmatiko
684
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Posted - 2012.04.16 11:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
My Magic Crystal Ball tells me "Not earlier than after Alliance Tournament X"
Seriously, isn't it obvious? |
DeadDuck
Viziam Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2012.04.16 13:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sarmatiko wrote:My Magic Crystal Ball tells me "Not earlier than after Alliance Tournament X" Seriously, isn't it obvious?
Since when ship revamps are dependent on Alliance Tournments? |
TheButcherPete
Titan Inc. Apocalyptic Legion.
122
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Posted - 2012.04.16 15:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Details on the Drake changes plox? My moncole doubles as a cigarette lighter, a flashlight, a laser and x-ray goggles. If you haven't noticed yet, I'm in love with Punkturis. -á-á-á
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
1169
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Posted - 2012.04.16 16:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Some time between yesterday and the heat death of the universe. Sorry I can't be more specific. |
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DeadDuck
Viziam Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2012.04.16 16:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
TheButcherPete wrote:Details on the Drake changes plox?
Was mentioned in CSC meetings:
If I remember correctly Drake loosing is shield resistances bonuses and kinetic damage bonus and gaigning Missile velocity bonus and a ROF bonus.
Don't know if they changed it after. |
Lili Lu
200
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Posted - 2012.04.16 16:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Some time between yesterday and the heat death of the universe. Sorry I can't be more specific.
That's ok. http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 This month's top 20 is looking like all the other month's top 20 for the past 2 or 3 years. No no, no problem that Drakes and heavy missiles are used more than twice the next ship on the ranks for kills. It's not like this problems been aroung a long time like well . . for years.
Oh, hey how about another new PVE environment made especially for them. I mean for pvp who cares that one ship is used so much more than any others, but you know in wormholes it's not the same situation for pve. There's such an incredible diversity of pve ship use. That can't be good for the game. What with sleeper neuts and heavy drone killing making all the totally passive shield setups Caldari BCs and strategic cruisers totally disadvantageous to use. Really sad that Caldari resist-bonused passive shield heavy missile boats are totally shut out of yet another excellent ISK making environment.
Can't you guys just just shelve any "balancing". I'm really sick of having to fight yet another Harbinger fleet going toe to toe with Battleship fleets at a lesser price, and obsoleting HAC fleets at larger numbers. Really it is sad to see Harbinger, Domi, Myrmidon, etc.
You see, one wonders why you were so quick to nerf the Myrm, Damp boats, Web boats, basically anything that does not have a resist bonus and sling heavy missiles. Anyway, carry on with Drakes and Tengus Online. |
Drew Solaert
University of Caille Gallente Federation
126
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Posted - 2012.04.17 00:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shame, I'm really looking forward to the changes in their proposed form. Would make it a more attractive boat to fly in my eyes. For every player ship that blows up, the wheels of the economy turn slightly faster. -áDo your bit today. -áGo out and PEW.
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sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
178
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Posted - 2012.04.17 22:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Drakes and Abaddons should come in Yellow and Black with pretty pictures. Sort of pilots that fly um will be use to seeing that grouping. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
282
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Posted - 2012.04.19 02:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Good, because the Drake doesn't need nerfing, and never has.
(NOTE: That something is popular does not imply that it's imbalanced.) The invention of ice-hockey is proof that Canada deserves to rule the world. Eh.
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Livie Revetoile
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.04.21 23:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
[quote=Lyrrashae (NOTE: That something is popular does not imply that it's imbalanced.)[/quote
Infact, this change would not be a nerf, some would even consider it a buff, so everyone will be very happy right ? And drake will become even more popular !
Then will be the hurricane, which would love to have one of its bonuses, the rof one, replaced by a shield booster bonus, and then tier 2 BC would be almost balanced. |
MasterChief Justice
nul-li-fy RED.OverLord
0
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Posted - 2012.04.23 18:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
I dunno In My eyes The Drake is Fine it has More then Enough uses people do lots with it ranged atk, close combat, Active or Passive Tank, RR fleets in my eyes it works fine i still see lots of people in null fly a drake cos they think its king of the space lanes but they die pretty quick you also see alot of harbi's and cane's but how often do you see a Myrm flying around out there by it self hell you dont even see that much anywhere lol the hurricane and Harbi are fine they can Both compeat with speed and Range and tank but whats a Myrm lol Tank and drones? drones die so easy the active tank on it works yeah but your still slow as hell and if you put blasters on it u have no range and you cap out real quick so most people use autos but your real damage is drones and they just get killed far to quick by any good pilot so lets leave the Bc's how they are there fine i would like to see the Myrm get some sorta good buff but to hell i love my gallentie ships and i still fly em even if they are down at the bottom of the ladder even with the blaster buff u realy only see megas and ishkurs and ishtars
Drakes work realy well in a Blob but what ship doesn't? |
Lili Lu
204
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Posted - 2012.04.23 19:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
MasterChief Justice wrote: . . . (please consider some more complex paragraph structure, thanx) . . .
Drakes work realy well in a Blob but what ship doesn't? I know! It's like I was saying. I'm totally sick of all the Harbinger fleets. Those things are totally op.
And, it's so easy for Amarr characters to do level 4s in them. They tank like BSs, and still put out enough damage at 70km to get the job done. Aurora M needs a nerf tbh. Maybe more cap and grid use for medium beam lasers would break up the plague of level 4 running dual MAR - 7 Heavy Beam with no fitting or cap problems Harbys.
Or how about the Myrm fleets that regularly battle for sov. Thank god the ship was nerfed quickly down from 125 to 75 bandwidth. Having all that indestructible dps with that active armor repping bonus is just a game breaker. Assholes can sit there running 2 or 3 MAR indefinitely. The fleet warfare capabilities of active tanking bonus ships (I'm looking at you too Cyclone fleets) have got to be addressed.
Or how about the Prophecy and Ferox fleets while we're at it. Six medium second tier long range guns do so much more damage at max range than 7 heavy missile launchers. And put them together in a blob, who really needs to train BS then.
And then of course the Hurricane fleets that Drake flyers so correctly complain for a nerf on. I mean wtf with rails, beams - ditto medium arty. The dps over all ranges on that **** is warped. Or what about the lack of downsides to short range guns like medium ac. And the 3 midslot shield tank on them just tips the balance.
Any BC, hell any tech I non-BS can do sov-serious internet fleet warfare against BSs. The evidence is out there every day on the killboards. Thanks for pointing this out. |
RavenTesio
Liandri Corporation
5
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Posted - 2012.04.23 20:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
People complain about overpowered ships whenever they loose to them, there are only a few ships I truely think are over-powered... the Drake is definately not one of them, I'd echo that with the Harbinger as well.
Yes they both can do very respectable Damage with Incredible strong Defence, but to do that you always have sacrifice E-War potencial; on top of that they are SLOW compared to the Tier 1 Battlecruisers and Cruisers can run bloody rings around them.
You want to truely balance them out, increase their damage a little bit and remove their ability to use drones. |
Jerick Ludhowe
Wraiths of Abaddon
61
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
RavenTesio wrote:People complain about overpowered ships whenever they loose to them, there are only a few ships I truely think are over-powered... the Drake is definately not one of them, I'd echo that with the Harbinger as well.
Yes they both can do very respectable Damage with Incredible strong Defence, but to do that you always have sacrifice E-War potencial; on top of that they are SLOW compared to the Tier 1 Battlecruisers and Cruisers can run bloody rings around them.
You want to truely balance them out, increase their damage a little bit and remove their ability to use drones.
I don't think the drake is overpowered in it's current state however the proposed changes most certainly will make it so. A significant dps increase to all type types as well as a mild one to kinetic on top of a flight time bonus will make the drake the new kiting king of bcs. Nano it up with a reasonable buffer, long point, mwd, and off grid skirmish links and you have a ship capable of soloing any other tier 2 bc with ease so long as you don't get caught in a warp to 0 situation or at undock. And even if put in a brawling situation the drake will have the best dps/tank ratio while having a significant range advantage at the same time.
Another issue I see with this change is the viability of the gallente t2 resists in pvp. Ideally these resists are designed to counter ships dmg types from the opposing faction. With the current trend of changing kin missile dmg bonuses to universal rof bonuses I see kin/therm being inadequate for dealing with the increased dps across all selectable dmg types. I don't have a solution to this hypothetical problem from a hypothetical change however I'd advise that ccp be rather careful with this one. |
Lili Lu
206
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Posted - 2012.04.25 22:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote: I don't think the drake is overpowered in it's current state however the proposed changes most certainly will make it so. A significant dps increase to all type types as well as a mild one to kinetic on top of a flight time bonus will make the drake the new kiting king of bcs. Nano it up with a reasonable buffer, long point, mwd, and off grid skirmish links and you have a ship capable of soloing any other tier 2 bc with ease so long as you don't get caught in a warp to 0 situation or at undock. And even if put in a brawling situation the drake will have the best dps/tank ratio while having a significant range advantage at the same time.
Another issue I see with this change is the viability of the gallente t2 resists in pvp. Ideally these resists are designed to counter ships dmg types from the opposing faction. With the current trend of changing kin missile dmg bonuses to universal rof bonuses I see kin/therm being inadequate for dealing with the increased dps across all selectable dmg types. I don't have a solution to this hypothetical problem from a hypothetical change however I'd advise that ccp be rather careful with this one.
On your first paragraph, it appears they were proposing losing both current bonuses, so the ship will not have a kinetic and a rof bonus.
As to your second paragraph, I agree that losing all the kinetic bonuses for rof bonuses does screw the Gallente tech II resist bonuses. I'm not in favor of dropping the kinetic bonus for a rof. Why the hell not just leave that alone.
But you see one of the unwritten rules of CCP is thou shall never nerf a Caldari ship into the stone age, whereas witness what was done to the Myrm and damps or nos or webs. Any other race that has a real or perceived overpowered ship gets a very quick and harsh nerf. But what was done with ecm boats? Ok, the range is a problem but here have a 30% per level bonus So maybe they thought if the ship is being nerfed we have to follow the unwritten rule and give it an immediate possibly overdone rebuff.
I understand and agree with dropping the resist bonus for something. It appears all they could come up with is another racial range type bonus. There might be more to this though in that HM range in general might be getting a slight nerf, and this bonus will simply retore the current range. Alternately with proposed new scripts for TDs that affect missile range this could have less of an overall effect assuming TDs get buffed this way and more people start fitting them. |
Izuru Hishido
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Violent Society
15
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Posted - 2012.04.25 23:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
I don't get why everyone hasn't just figured out the pattern yet. If its a caldari ship, and its popular, its gonna get nerfed at some point, so why even bother talking about it
That said, I agree with what everyone else has said about leaving the bonus to kinetic damage and not adding a rate of fire bonus. Perhaps instead of a rate of fire bonus, CCP could instead add a velocity bonus, therefore the drake doesn't get a large DPS buff, loses its natural tank, and stays relatively close to in-line with the rest of the battlecruisers
Oh, and for everyone who's said that to nano the drake would make it invulnerable, I'm going to have to say that if you did nano a drake, one, the sig radius turns it into a blimp every time the MWD is active, making it easier to hit for large/medium guns at range, not to mention the sig balloon from the LSE's, so it all balances out in the end. Not to mention the drake doesn't already have a very 'small' natural sig radius, so its not going to be hard to hit by any means
As far as what the next BC that needs nerfing is, I've flown them all at some point or another, either in ops on TQ or for ***** and giggles on singularity, so I can firmly vouch that removing the resist bonus from the drake won't kill its use in PVP by any means. If anything, it'll become even more common for support fleets, as they are easy to fly, disposable and so forth, but as far as any of the other BC's go, they're perfectly fine at what they do, they simply need better pilots than drakes, since...well...missiles are EVE on easy mode.
As far as 'the next blob ship' I can say with absolute certainty that no matter what you do to one ship, there will always be another to replace it. The blobs don't care about singular ships, they only care about having masses of people out there, so it really doesn't matter one damn bit what ships are being flown, therefore its best just to balance the ship against others in its class, not against every bloody ship out there. |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
183
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Posted - 2012.04.26 19:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
This change is only a nerf to dribbling idiots and people who use it for level 4s.
(And there's quite a bit of overlap between those two groups, I've noticed...) |
Jerick Ludhowe
Wraiths of Abaddon
62
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Posted - 2012.04.27 15:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:
On your first paragraph, it appears they were proposing losing both current bonuses, so the ship will not have a kinetic and a rof bonus.
Never said it was going to have a kin and rof bonus, simply a rof bonus. 25% rof bonus is a 33% universal dmg bonus instead of the 25% to just kinetic. So you end up with a significant increase in explosive, thermal, and em dmg compared to current drake and a small increase to kinetic missiles over current drake.
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PinkKnife
The Scope Gallente Federation
94
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Posted - 2012.04.27 18:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Lili Lu wrote:
On your first paragraph, it appears they were proposing losing both current bonuses, so the ship will not have a kinetic and a rof bonus.
Never said it was going to have a kin and rof bonus, simply a rof bonus. 25% rof bonus is a 33% universal dmg bonus instead of the 25% to just kinetic. So you end up with a significant increase in explosive, thermal, and em dmg compared to current drake and a small increase to kinetic missiles over current drake.
Yes but its a bonus to one group, not all of them at once. The drake problem was never just it's DPS, but the DPS/Tank ratio.
It is the same issue with the Dramiel, Having a ship be really good at one thing is fine. Having a ship that is really good at EVERY thing is bad.
In which case, what is the drake bad at?
Speed? Perma-MWD drake blobs are very common. Range? Not with heavy missiles DPS? pretty good with kinetic missiles which aren't often a default resistance. Tank? Default 20-25% resistances make it pretty awesome in tank. Cap warfare? Passive tank and missiles don't use cap. Ewar? Sensor strength is about the only thing it is average on.
Compare this to say, a Harbinger or hell any Gallente BC. |
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Jerick Ludhowe
Wraiths of Abaddon
62
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Posted - 2012.04.28 15:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote: Yes but its a bonus to one group, not all of them at once. The drake problem was never just it's DPS, but the DPS/Tank ratio.
?.. Rof bonus applies to all dmg types of the launcher types it is modifying. Also the overall DPS/Tank ratio on the proposed drake will be improved when using all dmg types other than kinetic. In the case of kinetic missiles being used there will be a slight nerf to the dps/tank ratio.
If the range bonus makes it significantly more advantageous to use HAMS at disruptor range over HMLS then these changes will sky rocket your average drake's dps/ehp ratio compared to tq drake. Changes are a huge buff, nuff said.
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2ofSpades
Exploration and Intelligence Agency
4
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Posted - 2012.04.28 16:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Right now Im able to run PVE with a PVP fit drake. I do think the drake is over powered, mostly because the drakes high mid low slot setup is so perfect for the types of mods needed. Even without the 25% resistance bonus I could still fit the same PVE tank on a drake I had before. Only difference is I would finally have to sacrifice some else like some dps or my point and web. I would no long be able to tank lvl4's plus have a point scram in case. I thought I had also read that the drake would get a velocity buff in place of the resistance. A 25% RoF bonus would make the drake the exact same as it is now because you could just fit a tank mod in your low slot and still get a BCS worth of damage from the new bonus. I find it intresting that all of a sudden people are trying to push the RoF bonus, in my eyes its just a ploy to keep the drake from actually getting nerfed which it does need to be. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
19
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Posted - 2012.04.29 19:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Interesting note on the proposed change for the Drake....
What do you do with the Cerb?
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Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
571
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Posted - 2012.04.30 06:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Instead of nerfing the drake, why aren't we buffing the other BC's? I think the cane/cyclone are fine, leave mini alone.
Buff Myrm's drone bay+bandwidth. Give the Harbi more CPU
Do these things and you'll have more options for fleet fights.
It's not rocket surgery. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
285
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Posted - 2012.04.30 07:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Instead of nerfing the drake, why aren't we buffing the other BC's? I think the cane/cyclone are fine, leave mini alone. Buff Myrm's drone bay+bandwidth. Give the Harbi more CPU Do these things and you'll have more options for fleet fights.
God yes. The Myrm is like a more expensive, better looking Vexor, with no other differences. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
184
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Posted - 2012.04.30 12:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
For the benefit of those still ignorant:
Quote:This change is only a nerf to dribbling idiots and people who use it for level 4s.
(And there's quite a bit of overlap between those two groups, I've noticed...)
Quote:Instead of nerfing the drake, why aren't we buffing the other BC's? 1. The last thing battlecruisers need is a buff. 2. It's easier to nerf two overpowered ships (Drake and Hurricane) than to buff 6. 3. Read the quote above ^ |
Necro Merc
The Maverick Navy Against ALL Authorities
3
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Posted - 2012.05.02 19:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Drake isn't OP in the scheme of things really, but compared to the other BCs it could be seen as OP.
A typical drake blob with heavy missile setup along with tank means that the enemy has no real hope of killing your DPS if you were a nano gang, it will take a significant effort to kill a drake when it's being propped up by logis. A problem not encountered with any other BC that I can think of.
It's DPS as a heavy missile boat is poor. How you could argue otherwise is obsurd, however throw a typical HAM drake together and you have an outrageous ship for not a lot of isk. I struggle to think of a setup that costs less than 200m isk that can beat a HAM drake in a 1v1 brawl. But this isn't a common setup, I don't know why since I have busted up many a gate camp with a couple of these beasts. This is where I'd lean toward agreeing with a nerf. A nerf that's not really a nerf, but a reclassification, giving it a role of DPS support.
With the proposed ROF and missile velocity bonus it is still a capable fleet dps ship. It will not be as tough to crack assuming they keep the same slot layout, it will be lacking in EM and THERM resists with the standard setup however will pump out slightly more dps and at better range. This makes it better at one thing but worse at another (the up close gank drake/having way more ehp than a cane to offset the damage defficiency). |
El Geo
Pathfinders.
37
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Posted - 2012.05.28 13:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
if it aint broken dont fix it
people will only find a 'new' drake to use and then people will find another ship to scream nerf at, all this 'rebalancing' is absurd what will it be next, nerf the myrm becuase it can have a fit thats faster than a cane and puts out around 900 dps and have higher ehp?
absurd, absolutely ridiculous - when i started playing everyone used to complain how bad the drake was at pvp and how much it needed buffing, it never recieved a buff and now look, its getting nerfed...
instead of 'rebalancing' (which to be fair is just CCP trying to please the playerbase with something notable and possably controversial so they can be seen to be doing something, like most modern art) why doesnt ccp concentrate on new and dynamic content, pos fixes, ring mining, corp roles and a bunch of other stuff to make your game better, you dullards that fight big fleet fights know how to counter drake blobs, anything that has a counter DOESNT need to be rebalanced
btw, grats ccp on the 'rebalance' to tech 1 frigates that will make the 'rebalance' to destroyers rather pointless... |
Ryuichi Hiroki
EVE University Ivy League
8
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Posted - 2012.05.28 23:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Nothing wrong with the drake. I don't see anyone complaining about it... you can't "fix" what isn't broken. |
jonny330
Ivy Mike's Munitions Expulsion Services
14
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Posted - 2012.05.29 15:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Some time between yesterday and the heat death of the universe. Sorry I can't be more specific.
Erm, given the current expansion rate of the universe, it will probably die in a big freeze rather than suffer a fiery death. Just saying. |
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