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Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
616
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Posted - 2012.04.16 20:11:00 -
[31] - Quote
This is not a module that will "encourage" more combat as CCP claimed they wanted to do in Inferno. It strikes me as another tool people will use to run away from/avoid a potential fight.
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Subdolus Venator
State War Academy Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.04.16 20:15:00 -
[32] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:Subdolus Venator wrote:Mars Theran wrote:Oh great.. blinky-blinky combats in our future. You'll have people teleporting all over the warzone chasing one another. Awesome, if true. That would reward actual practice and clear tactical thinking. Human skill and reflexes > Button-mashing. While I agree with you in theory, EVE is about button mashing. More simplified games can be played that way, but having to wait n seconds for locking time and cycle turrets kind of makes the whole idea improbable. It being a Battleship class module and having a 2 minute cooldown is actually fair and appropriate I think, and might result in more Battleships being brought to fights given they will suddenly have an improved and more versatile role on the field. You might see a problem with Machariels becoming suddenly overpowered however and with Fleets in 0.0 which will suddenly be able to close range and avoid Drake missile spam by jumping past it. It will make things more interesting though. I can't see anything there that disagrees with my point - You're talking about using... Skill and clear tactical thinking.
Sure, there will still be button mashing - Can't be avoided. But something that shakes up the battlefield, adds elements of unpredictablilty and increases tactical flexiblity is all good, in my mind. EVE is EVE - Feaces will eventuate. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
241
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Posted - 2012.04.16 20:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:This is not a module that will "encourage" more combat as CCP claimed they wanted to do in Inferno. It strikes me as another tool people will use to run away from/avoid a potential fight.
I agree. This and the hellcat nerf are part of a larger conspiracy to dumb EVE down. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Subdolus Venator
State War Academy Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.04.16 20:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:This is not a module that will "encourage" more combat as CCP claimed they wanted to do in Inferno. It strikes me as another tool people will use to run away from/avoid a potential fight. Recognizing that if it *is* used as a GTFO button, they'll be l;eaving all their sub-BS ships behind to die. So it's not exactly cost-free, in that scenario. EVE is EVE - Feaces will eventuate. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
616
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Posted - 2012.04.16 20:21:00 -
[35] - Quote
True enough I suppose. * Buys a nanopest Tempest.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6122
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Posted - 2012.04.16 20:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:I agree. This and the hellcat nerf are part of a larger conspiracy to dumb EVE down. Good thing that there is no hellcat nerf, then.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1522
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Posted - 2012.04.16 20:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
I hadn't seen the data dump, and apparently missed the spool up and cool down discussion as well... although I had assumed this would have to be part of the mechanic.
Did I miss it or do we know what range the MJD Interdictor Bubbles are going to have? That's going to be a huge factor, especially since it looks like the take a while to anchor... which makes them primarily a tool for the defenders to use (or as part of an area set up as a trap).
Don't get me wrong, as I said I am very much for new tactical options on the battlefield... as long as they don't completely disenfranchise an existing tactic like a sniper fleet. Personally I prefer combat of any scale to be "in your face", but I'm more concerned with over all game balance discussions like this.
I don't really consider a Drake fleet to be a true sniper fleet, in fact I'd like to see a mechanic that made the option to have extreme range fleets viable again (150km) yet still have a good counter. The more tactics (including attack range) available and effective, yet still easily counterable with the correct tactic by your opponent, the better.
Edit: Also, am I seeing that MJD will also be affected by standard warp scram/bubbles? If so that opens up some interesting options. Namely put up a MJK Interdiction bubble around yourself (hopefully it has good range) while retaining the ability to simply warp out as normal... but a traditional bubble keeps a fleet pinned from not only warp but from Micro Jumps as well. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1116
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 20:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:Edit: Says battleship class module, but if it doesn't work via mass/thrust like battleships, doesn't that mean it could also be used on capitals? That would be a nice usage.
There's already so many "strange" things in Eve I wouldn't be surprised of that one nor that mod being used by Battlecruisers/T3 ships...
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
587
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Posted - 2012.04.16 21:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
I don't see what all the hubb-bub is about. At least with respect to lowsec piracy... we do that now. Hell even the null guys have bookmarks all around the gates and stations in their home systems (most anyway). Want to jump 100km? Warp to that bookmark at 170km away at a range of 70. This is already common practice. Take a look at ninja looters in Tama or the current back and forth going on between gatecampers/pirates/mission runners/bigger corps in Malia.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1522
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Posted - 2012.04.16 21:36:00 -
[40] - Quote
Gogela wrote:I don't see what all the hubb-bub is about. At least with respect to lowsec piracy... we do that now. Hell even the null guys have bookmarks all around the gates and stations in their home systems (most anyway). Want to jump 100km? Warp to that bookmark at 170km away at a range of 70. This is already common practice. Take a look at ninja looters in Tama or the current back and forth going on between gatecampers/pirates/mission runners/bigger corps in Malia.
Very true, but the difference is that there would be no large "home turf advantage" due to thoroughly bookmarking the system you plan on operating in... both parties (if equipped with MJD's) would equally have that capability.
Also, with bookmarks and ranged warping, you are restricted to the area's (in a linear fashion) you have bookmarked. With MJD's you can do a Micro Jump in any direction you happen to be facing.
It does open up more tactical options for both sides, with the advantage still being (to a lesser degree than now) with the team with the most bookmarks. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
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Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
505
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Posted - 2012.04.16 22:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
i dont see the issue, bubble the gate with a sniper fleet and kill everything but maybe t3s.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1523
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Posted - 2012.04.16 23:33:00 -
[42] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:i dont see the issue, bubble the gate with a sniper fleet and kill everything but maybe t3s.
I don't think that basic gate camps will be the primary use of MJD tactics. I have a feeling the area that will be most affected will be the realm of larger fleet engagements.
I am just hoping that their implementation will be well thought out and add to the tactical choices available, not subtract from them. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Endeavour Starfleet
804
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 00:29:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Mars Theran wrote:Oh great.. blinky-blinky combats in our future. You'll have people teleporting all over the warzone chasing one another. Heh, yes. I had visions of a "Bleach" style of combat evolving.... with Star Ships using "Flash Step" constantly to get into position behind their opponent. Edit: Needless to say, I'm not a big fan of starship combat working like that in EVE. I'm hoping there is more to it than that.
You mean before we use Jump drive in combat we first have to have a long speech about our jump ability? |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
176
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 00:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Could someone shed some light on the proposed mechanics for Micro Jump Drives?
My understanding is that it will allow "micro" jumps of 100km, although I could be very wrong on that.
Specifically I am concerned about their effect on long range (sniper) combat, which is already nearly impossible in game due to current probing mechanics. Will it make it even easier to jump on top of a sniper fleet?
I am fully in favor of new dimensions being added to combat, however the option to have a viable long range fleet needs to remain... so I'm a bit concerned.
wheres this coming from?
there a dev blog Im missing O.o Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you. |
MeestaPenni
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
209
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Posted - 2012.04.17 01:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
Would you want to immediately engage in combat after burning that much cap? This seems to be a "get out of town" button. Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore. |
Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
597
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Posted - 2012.04.17 05:16:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:Oh great.. blinky-blinky combats in our future. You'll have people teleporting all over the warzone chasing one another. No, no....don't forget your crutch - web/scram. And, you get to use a handicap parking spot.
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold |
Culmen
Culmenation
21
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Posted - 2012.04.17 06:35:00 -
[47] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:Would you want to immediately engage in combat after burning that much cap? This seems to be a "get out of town" button.
Well you might if you were a Autocannon/Missile fit.
As for it's use as a GTFO button. The spool up time is longer than most ship's align time. Any ship that escapes has blundered into a camp so inept that they probably would have missed him if he just warped to a safe. There is a fine line between a post and a signature. |
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
554
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 06:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Could someone shed some light on the proposed mechanics for Micro Jump Drives?
My understanding is that it will allow "micro" jumps of 100km, although I could be very wrong on that.
Specifically I am concerned about their effect on long range (sniper) combat, which is already nearly impossible in game due to current probing mechanics. Will it make it even easier to jump on top of a sniper fleet?
I am fully in favor of new dimensions being added to combat, however the option to have a viable long range fleet needs to remain... so I'm a bit concerned. wheres this coming from? there a dev blog Im missing O.o
Data dump on 1st page of thread. |
Dyner
Midgard Protectorate
92
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 06:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
The sound effect the MJDs use had better be the "warp sound" used in Star Trek Movie (2009)...oh and the FX should be the same too.
....WHAT? I like Star Trek; **** off. |
Facilitate Pellion
Puns Inc
0
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Posted - 2012.04.17 10:12:00 -
[50] - Quote
Dyner wrote:The sound effect the MJDs use had better be the "warp sound" used in Star Trek Movie (2009)...oh and the FX should be the same too. ....WHAT? I like Star Trek; **** off.
Engage. |
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JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
556
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Posted - 2012.04.17 12:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
This thread is awesome.
I need more power! I'm giving it all she's got Captain! |
Joe Skellington
13th Tribe of Kobol Expeditionary
54
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 13:28:00 -
[52] - Quote
Dyner wrote:The sound effect the MJDs use had better be the "warp sound" used in Star Trek Movie (2009)...oh and the FX should be the same too. ....WHAT? I like Star Trek; **** off.
Spinning up the FTL, Adama. -á-á |\__/|-á -á/ @ @ \ -á-á -á( > -¦ < )-á -á`-+-+x-½-½-¦ -á-á / O \ |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1524
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 13:32:00 -
[53] - Quote
Culmen wrote:MeestaPenni wrote:Would you want to immediately engage in combat after burning that much cap? This seems to be a "get out of town" button. Well you might if you were a Autocannon/Missile fit. As for it's use as a GTFO button. The spool up time is longer than most ship's align time. Any ship that escapes has blundered into a camp so inept that they probably would have missed him if he just warped to a safe.
Well, I'm sure the cap use can be adjusted, but yeah... it seems like it's offensive use might be limited to passive/buffer tanking projectile/missile users currently. This would seem to limit it's use for say Blaster boats (which might benefit from it otherwise), although I suppose if they were using Cap Boosters, that "might" mitigate the cap hit to a degree. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Dyner
Midgard Protectorate
95
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Posted - 2012.04.18 01:17:00 -
[54] - Quote
Joe Skellington wrote:Dyner wrote:The sound effect the MJDs use had better be the "warp sound" used in Star Trek Movie (2009)...oh and the FX should be the same too. ....WHAT? I like Star Trek; **** off. Spinning up the FTL, Adama.
Prepare for low-orbital jump! |
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Hedion University Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2012.04.18 01:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:Keep in mind that there is also a mobile micro jump drive disruptor as well listed in the same build file as the micro jump drive. Joe Skellington wrote:Micro Jumpdrives? Please tell me this is a troll or a joke :( Not a joke. [+] Micro Jump Drive I [+|n] medPower [+|n] microJumpDrive [+|n] online [+] capacitorNeed: 946.0 [+] capacity: 0 [+] cpu: 77.0 [+] disallowRepeatingActivation: 1.0 [+] duration: 30000.0 [+] gallenteNavyBonusMultiplier: 0 [+] heatAbsorbtionRateModifier: 0.04 [+] heatDamage: 8.2 [+] hp: 40.0 [+] mass: 0 [+] maxGroupActive: 1.0 [+] metaLevel: 0 [+] moduleReactivationDelay: 120000.0 [+] power: 1375.0 [+] republicFleetBonusMultiplier: 0 [+] requiredSkill1: 4385.0 [+] requiredSkill1Level: 1.0 [+] requiredThermoDynamicsSkill: 1.0 [+] signatureRadiusBonusPercent: 500.0 [+] techLevel: 1.0 [+] volume: 10.0 [+] warpScrambleStrength: -1.0 Long ramp up time, at end ship is jumped instantly 100 km directly forward. Ship maintains direction and velocity. Ship is affected by warp scramblers and warp disruption fields. Note: Battleship class module [+] Micro Jump Drive I Blueprint [+] capacity: 0 [+] mass: 0 [+] volume: 0.01 [+] Mobile Large Jump Disruptor I Blueprint [+] capacity: 0 [+] mass: 0 [+] volume: 0.01 [+] Micro Jump Drive Operation [+|n] propulsionJammingSkillBoostDurationBonus [+|n] skillEffect [+|n] skillMJDdurationBonus [+] capacity: 0 [+] durationBonus: 5.0 [+] mass: 0 [+] primaryAttribute: 165.0 [+] requiredSkill1: 3449.0 [+] requiredSkill1Level: 4.0 [+] requiredSkill2: 3455.0 [+] requiredSkill2Level: 2.0 [+] secondaryAttribute: 167.0 [+] skillLevel: 0 [+] skillTimeConstant: 5.0 [+] volume: 0 [+] Mobile Large Jump Disruptor I [+|n] anchorDrop [+|n] anchorLift [+] anchoringDelay: 360000.0 [+] armorHP: 60000.0 [+] capacity: 0 [+] hp: 120000.0 [+] mass: 0 [+] metaLevel: 0 [+] requiredSkill1: 11584.0 [+] requiredSkill1Level: 3.0 [+] requiredSkill2: 3435.0 [+] requiredSkill2Level: 4.0 [+] requiredSkill3: 4385.0 [+] requiredSkill3Level: 3.0 [+] scanLadarStrength: 25.0 [+] shieldCapacity: 40000.0 [+] shieldRechargeRate: 1200000.0 [+] signatureRadius: 450.0 [+] techLevel: 1.0 [+] volume: 585.0 A Large deployable self powered unit that prevents micro jumping into its area of effect.
um ok how about the computers explain it to the non computers then? I dont speak spreadsheet
Dyner wrote:Joe Skellington wrote:Dyner wrote:The sound effect the MJDs use had better be the "warp sound" used in Star Trek Movie (2009)...oh and the FX should be the same too. ....WHAT? I like Star Trek; **** off. Spinning up the FTL, Adama. Prepare for low-orbital jump!
when they jumped from inside the atmosphere while falling was cool
Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
294
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 02:51:00 -
[56] - Quote
they are for black ops ships... bam therse your bo boost mofoes now cry PLEX FOR PIZZA!
TECH iii MINNING SHIPS! |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
303
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Posted - 2012.04.18 02:52:00 -
[57] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:they are for black ops ships... bam therse your bo boost mofoes now cry
Who's troll alt are you? Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
121
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Posted - 2012.04.18 03:19:00 -
[58] - Quote
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
um ok how about the computers explain it to the non computers then? I dont speak spreadsheet
Essentially is says it has a 30 second spool up time, 120 second cooldown, cannot autorepeat is the main thing.
Also, PG usage puts it as a battleship module.
The part I find interesting is that I don't se anything prohibiting the possibility to use it as a capital ship module which would make logical sense. the ability to move capitals effectively is sorely needed. A microjump makes perfect sense if they can use it. |
Ashrun Dir
Love for You Forsaken.Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.05.03 09:38:00 -
[59] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:ElQuirko wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Heh, yes. I had visions of a "Bleach" style of combat evolving.... with Star Ships using "Flash Step" constantly to get into position behind their opponent. Edit: Needless to say, I'm not a big fan of starship combat working like that in EVE. I'm hoping there is more to it than that. This is a better method of combat than the "BLOBBED, MO'FO" that we have now. Positioning should be implemented further - turning guns around to shoot behind should require an entire align of the ship, which should take much longer when in combat. what you realy mean: implement a proper tracking formula. The current tracking formula does not take ship orientation into account which is the root of the problem. For example: a ship orbiting a static object has still to track as much as the static object would have to... which is wrong. Thats why close range ships need such an insane tracking bonus.
Maybe I misunderstood your comment.
But, it sounds like the current tracking formula is correct. Both the stationary object and the ship orbiting the object need to have a high tracking speed.
The object needs to have a high tracking speed because it is at rest being orbited by the fast ship it is intending to hit. The ship has a high angular velocity w.r.t. the object.
The ship also needs to have a high tracking speed because it (the ship) is at rest in its own rest frame. i.e. the ship sees the object orbiting it at with a high angular velocity, and as such needs a high tracking speed to hit the object.
Again, maybe I misunderstood your comment. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1264
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 09:40:00 -
[60] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Could someone shed some light on the proposed mechanics for Micro Jump Drives?
My understanding is that it will allow "micro" jumps of 100km, although I could be very wrong on that.
Specifically I am concerned about their effect on long range (sniper) combat, which is already nearly impossible in game due to current probing mechanics. Will it make it even easier to jump on top of a sniper fleet?
I am fully in favor of new dimensions being added to combat, however the option to have a viable long range fleet needs to remain... so I'm a bit concerned. It also means that long-range sniper fleets can jump 100km away from the jump point the second they see them aligning.
that puts them in actual warp range. doesn't help snipers nearly as much as blaster boats and other reach-challenged spacecraft. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
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