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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
225
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Posted - 2012.04.16 20:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here is an idea for something that would make an interesting bait ship.
Have a frigate designed to throw out a false image of a bigger ship.
It would have no actual slots, just a built in module where a crystal would be mounted. The crystal would eventually burn out, like any beam weapon crystal does.
The crystal would be the charge used to select which ship this vessel imitated.
Give it Weapon simulators, that only do 1% of real damage, but have the appearance and effect of full size weapons. (It will never fight effectively, but it will look like it is fighting)
The high / mid / low slots would be determined by the ship being imitated, and would allow control of the module effects displayed.
Have it use charges, like crystals in a beam weapon, that dictate what ship it can imitate. For each skill level in Deception, you can simulate a ship size 1 step above frigate. Skill 1 Destroyer 2 Cruiser / Hauler 3 Battlecruiser / Barge / (Exhumer requires T2) 4 Battleship 5 Orca / Freighter / JF or low end carrier
T2 variants on ships unlock at skill level 4, obvious exception being the JF, which is also the same skill as the freighter.
The frigate would seem quite durable, as the bigger the ship it emulated, the less actual damage it would take. For simplicity, consider it to have the same shields and armor as whatever it impersonates, as more weapons won't hit the real ship as the perceived target is so much bigger.
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Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
106
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Posted - 2012.04.16 21:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cute idea. I don't think anyone would use it, but that would only make it more effective when they did.
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
225
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Posted - 2012.04.16 21:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
I am considering how much strategy ant tactical preparation would go into ambushes, and counter-ambushes...
It could be the source of many stories if someone pulls off a clever deception.... |
Josef Stylin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.04.16 21:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
So..
Frigate disguises as a JF Fleet warps in Frigate pops in one shot Fleet warps out after realising they've been deceived. Support fleet lands after the attacking fleet has already left |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
225
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Posted - 2012.04.16 22:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Josef Stylin wrote:So..
Frigate disguises as a JF Fleet warps in Frigate pops in one shot Fleet warps out after realising they've been deceived. Support fleet lands after the attacking fleet has already left See, this is where you missed a detail...
Nikk Narrel wrote:The frigate would seem quite durable, as the bigger the ship it emulated, the less actual damage it would take. For simplicity, consider it to have the same shields and armor as whatever it impersonates, as more weapons won't hit the real ship as the perceived target is so much bigger. As far as damage goes, it stopped being a frigate the moment it plugged in the JF crystal, and activated it's module.
The attacking fleet would not know they had been fooled at all, unless they succeeded in killing the JF. Then, and only then, would the module go offline revealing the wreck to be not what they expected. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
672
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Posted - 2012.04.16 22:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
I would spend hours with this "mining" in a "Hulk" in low sec. |
Jayrendo Karr
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
47
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Posted - 2012.04.17 00:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
watisthis just call it a hologram. |
Fango Mango
University of Caille Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2012.04.17 00:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote: The frigate would seem quite durable, as the bigger the ship it emulated, the less actual damage it would take. For simplicity, consider it to have the same shields and armor as whatever it impersonates, as more weapons won't hit the real ship as the perceived target is so much bigger.
I loved the idea up until this point . . .
A frigate with a battleship/orca/carrier tank????
Can I use this in high sec to tank level 4s?
I think its a wonderful idea, but the bait ship can never have more EHP than a bait ship.
It would make low sec a lot more fun :)
-FM |
Face612
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
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Posted - 2012.04.17 04:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
I like the concept of the bait hologram, but why have it be a ship? How about a holo-probe? Launchable from a special probe launcher fitted to a tier two destroyer? One could be launched once every 20 seconds or so like a interdiction probe. It then puts out the signature and image of a specific ship type (battle cruiser, battle ship, etc). They would insta-pop if shot and disappear after 60 seconds.
Think about a few of these setting up a false gate camp on one side of a system while a cov-ops fleet is cloaked on the other gate, or evac fleets using this for obfuscation of the real fleet.
Sounds cool to me. |
Tarn Kugisa
Space Mongolian Pinked
66
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Posted - 2012.04.17 04:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
LOLWUT 5 JF's on a gate
I like sneaky frigs +1 I Endorse this Product and/or Service [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16580[/url] |
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Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
620
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Posted - 2012.04.17 10:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
So what happens when these become so common that no one bothers to attack people doing obviously dumb things any more?
There have been so many times in Eve when I've gone "holy ****, that rorqual can't have just warped to a planet". If this was introduced, I'd never trust such a blatant target again
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
227
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:So what happens when these become so common that no one bothers to attack people doing obviously dumb things any more? There have been so many times in Eve when I've gone "holy ****, that rorqual can't have just warped to a planet". If this was introduced, I'd never trust such a blatant target again Ahhh, ever hear of something called a shell game? You probably have, but in case someone is lost: Three shells, (cups or little bowls), are upside down on a table. One of them has the prize under it, typically a small ball.
The host asks the player to bet on whether they think they can find which shell has the ball under it, in one guess. He then moves them around in a confusing manner, or cheats, so that the player has a hard time following which shell was which.
Same idea.
5 fake JFs, not far from each other. 1 real one. You cannot figure out which is which unless you defeat the correct one, or eliminate the others.
Strategy and clever can sometimes beat brute force... |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
227
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fango Mango wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote: The frigate would seem quite durable, as the bigger the ship it emulated, the less actual damage it would take. For simplicity, consider it to have the same shields and armor as whatever it impersonates, as more weapons won't hit the real ship as the perceived target is so much bigger.
I loved the idea up until this point . . . A frigate with a battleship/orca/carrier tank???? Can I use this in high sec to tank level 4s? I think its a wonderful idea, but the bait ship can never have more EHP than a bait ship. It would make low sec a lot more fun :) -FM This is a design intended to benefit PvP, not act as an exploit with PvE.
NPC elements can be set to simply ignore this ship, putting it last on their hate list, since it's damage dealing ability is trivial. They will kill it, but not before trying to kill anything else they see. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
228
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Posted - 2012.04.18 15:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
With all the interest in making miners more survivable in high sec, it occurs to me this would be very popular with them.
Trick one: Pure bait ship. It looks like a hulk, has the mining lasers pounding away, (they won't do anything but look pretty, but noone else can tell that). Ganker shows up, get's pointed by fleet ship the moment they open fire, and the hunters swoop in to mulch the would be ganker.
Trick two: Fake defense ship. Can't pilot that machariel yet? Make them think you have the defense ship of your choice already, and it is on duty. One idea could be impersonate a drone user, and assign the exhumer's drones to guard them. Since the bait ship can't use drones, it looks real...
Strategies using deception, this is where the stories become epic... |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
924
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Posted - 2012.04.20 12:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
I liek the idea of a deployable beacon that transmits the characteristics of a ship
so you can spoof somebodys dscan results My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Ron Livingston
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.04.20 14:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Face612 wrote:I like the concept of the bait hologram, but why have it be a ship? How about a holo-probe? Launchable from a special probe launcher fitted to a tier two destroyer? One could be launched once every 20 seconds or so like a interdiction probe. It then puts out the signature and image of a specific ship type (battle cruiser, battle ship, etc). They would insta-pop if shot and disappear after 60 seconds.
Think about a few of these setting up a false gate camp on one side of a system while a cov-ops fleet is cloaked on the other gate, or evac fleets using this for obfuscation of the real fleet.
Sounds cool to me.
That could be a great new tech 2 destroyer. Each faction can only represent their own factions ships. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
233
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Posted - 2012.04.20 14:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ron Livingston wrote:Face612 wrote:I like the concept of the bait hologram, but why have it be a ship? How about a holo-probe? Launchable from a special probe launcher fitted to a tier two destroyer? One could be launched once every 20 seconds or so like a interdiction probe. It then puts out the signature and image of a specific ship type (battle cruiser, battle ship, etc). They would insta-pop if shot and disappear after 60 seconds.
Think about a few of these setting up a false gate camp on one side of a system while a cov-ops fleet is cloaked on the other gate, or evac fleets using this for obfuscation of the real fleet.
Sounds cool to me. That could be a great new tech 2 destroyer. Each faction can only represent their own factions ships. It is not that this is a good or bad idea, it just has limited value with such a short lifespan.
Bait ships need to appear real, or real enough to take a chance on. If it is known a fake pops after 60 seconds, then the roams will deploy scouts to watch targets. 1 minute to know if it is a trap? "AFK" cloakers scout systems for hours on end, that won't fool them. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
233
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Posted - 2012.04.20 14:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ron Livingston wrote:That could be a great new tech 2 destroyer. Each faction can only represent their own factions ships. The bait ship could also be faction specific, if it makes sense.
Each faction is uniquely able to access the common pool of ships, like barges and exhumers, plus their own specific racial ships. |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1243
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Posted - 2012.04.27 22:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
Phantom bait?!! CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Gasgat Alur
The Order of the Oar P R I M E
10
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Posted - 2012.04.27 22:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
A ship within a ship? Shipception? |
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
418
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Posted - 2012.04.27 23:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gasgat Alur wrote:A ship within a ship? Shipception?
It's ships all the way down. |
Shandir
Indigo Archive
122
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Posted - 2012.04.28 01:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
+1, really interesting idea. The idea of it having a great tank is fair, imo. It's sacrificing (almost) all damage capability and it's role is bait. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
241
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Posted - 2012.04.30 14:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Shandir wrote:+1, really interesting idea. The idea of it having a great tank is fair, imo. It's sacrificing (almost) all damage capability and it's role is bait. It retains a 1% damage capacity, more to create the impression of bad or trivial hits.
What makes that trivial, is that it emulates the tracking and speed of the weapons used as well, so while a bigger ship's guns might be more notable hitting a smaller ship, it would still be unable to hit it most of the time, and still have the damage penalties on top of the 1% damage rate.
Effectively trivial, yes. A few damage reports that looked low makes the illusion more real than having none at all, but still seeing weapons firing.
As for bait-ship Hulks, only the asteroids know it is fake. No actual ore is mined. |
Nomistrav
High Flyers RED.OverLord
9
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Posted - 2012.04.30 15:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
Make it able to fit a covert ops cloak so I can scare the absolute hell out of the carrier ratters, and we have a deal.
Seriously, I'll throw up an image of a cyno ship and watch them scramble about trying to find the "warp to" button. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
242
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Posted - 2012.04.30 15:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nomistrav wrote:Make it able to fit a covert ops cloak so I can scare the absolute hell out of the carrier ratters, and we have a deal.
Seriously, I'll throw up an image of a cyno ship and watch them scramble about trying to find the "warp to" button. That is a potential use the devs would need to approve, balance wise.
Part of the AFK cloaking effect, specifically, is the perception of danger affecting how people behave in these systems.
If it is decided that you are not risking enough to create that perception, it won't happen. If it is cheaper to use the actual ship instead, it would be pointless.
It is also a consideration that the bait ship may be easier to train, than the actual cloaking cyno ship. If the bait ship is also more expensive, then it becomes a trade off, and might be considered balanced. |
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
213
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Posted - 2012.04.30 16:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Josef Stylin wrote:So..
Frigate disguises as a JF Fleet warps in Frigate pops in one shot Fleet warps out after realising they've been deceived. Support fleet lands after the attacking fleet has already left
Or Support fleet uncloaks/jumps/warps/cynos/bridges/uses warp bubble when enemy is confirmed as being in warp.
You must really fail at PvP. UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch |
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