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Bully Hedro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.04.16 23:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why are market orders forced to be anonymous until after you buy/sell? Wouldn't it be better if you could see the buyer/seller *beforehand*? Shouldn't a corp/player be able to show their name if they want? Those that wish to show their orders should be able to and those that wish to stay anonymous should still have that option as well (probably best though a click box in the order menu).
Sometimes I wish I could see the corps and players behind those faceless Jita orders before I buy/sell to them. Yes, I realize the its easy to find out who a market order belongs to, by buying/selling test orders, but marketing and name recognition have been a part of business for centuries now. Corporations that have good reputations and repore with their customers can often retain business even though they don't have the lowest price simply because they customers preference them (be it trust, habit, idealogy).
What would also be interesting, is that this could also be a motivator for conflict. If a corp notices that a particular rival is dominating the market, then it would have reasons/motivation to economically, or even militarily compete with that rival.
Right now as it is there are definately some corps that I would preference if I saw their stuff on the market over others. Think CCP would give this some thought. |
Tradelita
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.16 23:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Interesting, except that you don't get to choose who you buy / sell from on the market. |
LoBlo Fet
Blackstar Inc.
8
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Posted - 2012.04.16 23:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tradelita wrote:Interesting, except that you don't get to choose who you buy / sell from on the market.
You can chose who to buy from by right clicking that order. It would be a easy fix to the market to make it an option to choose who to sell to. For example, a patch could be made that lets us right click the sell order just like the buy order. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
360
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Posted - 2012.04.16 23:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
LoBlo Fet wrote:Tradelita wrote:Interesting, except that you don't get to choose who you buy / sell from on the market. You can chose who to buy from by right clicking that order. It would be a easy fix to the market to make it an option to choose who to sell to. For example, a patch could be made that lets us right click the sell order just like the buy order.
Bzzzt, wrong.
Common misunderstanding though.
http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blog/2012/04/13/understanding-the-market/
tl;dr: You /always/ buy from the cheapest sell order, in the station where you decide to buy. Just like you always sell to the highest buy order.
You can pay more, or get paid less, but you can't pick the order. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
LoBlo Fet
Blackstar Inc.
8
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Posted - 2012.04.16 23:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:LoBlo Fet wrote:Tradelita wrote:Interesting, except that you don't get to choose who you buy / sell from on the market. You can chose who to buy from by right clicking that order. It would be a easy fix to the market to make it an option to choose who to sell to. For example, a patch could be made that lets us right click the sell order just like the buy order. Bzzzt, wrong. Common misunderstanding though. http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blog/2012/04/13/understanding-the-market/tl;dr: You /always/ buy from the cheapest sell order, in the station where you decide to buy. Just like you always sell to the highest buy order. You can pay more, or get paid less, but you can't pick the order.
Ah, yes, your right. I was forgetting that when you select the buy order to buy from, only the cheapest buy order is accessed. I was thinking that buy right clicking you could specifically select a listing. My mistake. |
Shay Starlighter
Rock Grinders Unlimited
0
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Posted - 2012.04.16 23:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
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Bully Hedro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.04.17 01:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shay Starlighter wrote:http://www.evealopalous.com/?ref=1620289651 for raffles, lotteries, games GÇó 7,000,000.00 FREE TO NEW MEMBERS (LIMITED TIME)
Junk spam advertizements? Really? Next thing you know the forums will have popup spam. |
Samroski
Games Inc. EVE Trade Consortium
54
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Posted - 2012.04.17 04:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
In RL the quality of goods manufactured by different companies varies, thus the need for a brand.
In Eve there is no difference in the quality of items, and there is no depreciation.
Why would I want to buy more expensive goods? Maybe if CCP let us change the outside of ships- you could have a logo/design that sells well...
And I suppose if this happens you can choose not to buy stuff made by the goons or someone you dislike....
I think, even if CCP let us individualize goods, we'll be able to sell them only via contracts, where all info is visible. |
SlayerOfArgus
Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
9
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Posted - 2012.04.17 04:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
You can't change it so that you can choose which sell order to buy, because that could aid RMT very easily by letting people but orders for cheap things at ridiculous prices and it'd be hard to differentiate between what was an accident and what was RMT.
Although, what you could do with your sell and buy orders is limit who can buy your items and who can sell to you. Say for instance that a corp wanted to keep their wares from being sold directly to an enemy corp, they could set it so that the enemy corp cannot buy their items. And if you didn't want an enemy selling their items to you, then you could limit who you accept money from. There would have to be restrictions to this though, so that RMT corps do not put orders up that can only be filled by their clients. When limiting their orders, it can only happen if they are in their contacts. This keeps a group from setting it so that only 1 person can buy/sell etc. Of course, if you do this then your order is not anonymous anymore. Essentially, you aren't limiting your orders TO some people, you are just limiting them FROM certain people.
I think this has some potential. I've always liked the idea of marketing your goods to others and seeing your competition. It'd make it a lot easier when determining who to go after with trading |
EFF ONEF1
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.04.17 04:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Samroski wrote:In RL the quality of goods manufactured by different companies varies, thus the need for a brand.
In Eve there is no difference in the quality of items, and there is no depreciation.
Why would I want to buy more expensive goods? Maybe if CCP let us change the outside of ships- you could have a logo/design that sells well...
And I suppose if this happens you can choose not to buy stuff made by the goons or someone you dislike....
I think, even if CCP let us individualize goods, we'll be able to sell them only via contracts, where all info is visible.
id buy more expensive if it meant not going to farmers. or goons, i like bandwagons.
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Forumgirl
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.04.17 11:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
If you remove the upfront anonymity of market orders, griefer corps will use it as a tool for selecting war targets - focusing on productive corps that can and often will pay a ransom in order to keep from interrupting their market activities. Many of the market toons will then flock to NPC corps to offset the risk of their market activities getting this kind of attention. Then you have traders in player corps paying ransoms, writing courier contracts, or soon hiring mercenaries, competing against NPC Corp traders that have no war related costs. This is not the intent of the change.
I think removing the upfront anonymity of market orders, and the total anonymity of using public station services, could eventually yield true corporate wars over markets and station services (especially if canceled jobs opened up slots), but it has to be balanced against the other issues surrounding war decs and NPC war immunity. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
108
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Posted - 2012.04.17 11:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
LoBlo Fet wrote:Tradelita wrote:Interesting, except that you don't get to choose who you buy / sell from on the market. You can chose who to buy from by right clicking that order. It would be a easy fix to the market to make it an option to choose who to sell to. For example, a patch could be made that lets us right click the sell order just like the buy order.
I would also like to have the ability to purchase items from people that I like and not the people constantly changing the prices on 6 orders every 30 seconds by .01 isk effective, mostly because this would be the Final Nail in the coffin for Market bots, this would also be a very strong factor in driving down prices on items all across new eden.
Competition would be taken to a whole new level, unseen and Unheard of. |
YuuKnow
188
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Posted - 2012.04.17 13:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
SlayerOfArgus wrote:You can't change it so that you can choose which sell order to buy, because that could aid RMT very easily by letting people but orders for cheap things at ridiculous prices and it'd be hard to differentiate between what was an accident and what was RMT.
On the otherhand, if we could persons behind the orders more easily, then wouldn't it be easy to spot and identify the botters? I'll take a mechanic that exposes botters more easily anyday.
Also, having a person deliberately choose to by an outrageiously inflated item would probably make it easier to spot RMTers. That person that brought 100 trit for 2bil isk...
SlayerOfArgus wrote:Although, what you could do with your sell and buy orders is limit who can buy your items and who can sell to you. Say for instance that a corp wanted to keep their wares from being sold directly to an enemy corp, they could set it so that the enemy corp cannot buy their items. And if you didn't want an enemy selling their items to you, then you could limit who you accept money from. There would have to be restrictions to this though, so that RMT corps do not put orders up that can only be filled by their clients. When limiting their orders, it can only happen if they are in their contacts. This keeps a group from setting it so that only 1 person can buy/sell etc. Of course, if you do this then your order is not anonymous anymore. Essentially, you aren't limiting your orders TO some people, you are just limiting them FROM certain people.
That's still too limited information. More market information is more power and more interesting gameplay.
yk |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
10
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Posted - 2012.04.17 13:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Anonymity is needed on scc market. Since your trading through a middle man your broker. If you directly bring in politics to the supposed neutral markets you would get a whole new chaotic pricing.
The politics should go on the contracts market. Where bulk trade etc should belong. These should also be possible to limit access to with standing or a confirmation needed option.
The topic has been up many times before..
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Shar Tegral
155
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Posted - 2012.04.17 13:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Caleb Ayrania wrote:The topic has been up many times before.. Too true, too true.
This has been a topic of some debate since the first week after launch. For the first week any sales would tell you who you were going to engage in a transaction with. At the least you could simply refuse to complete that transaction. Of course that meant you could not do that transaction at that station (or within range).
One thing that was suggested we would get, as an alternative, was personalized storefronts when Ambulation was released. Nothing overly defined in details but then Ambulation has been renamed, redone, and repackaged into a new product entirely so... ...
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LoBlo Fet
Blackstar Inc.
10
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Caleb Ayrania wrote:Anonymity is needed on scc market. Since your trading through a middle man your broker. If you directly bring in politics to the supposed neutral markets you would get a whole new chaotic pricing.
The politics should go on the contracts market. Where bulk trade etc should belong. These should also be possible to limit access to with standing or a confirmation needed option.
The topic has been up many times before..
Perhaps the future improvments in the market should be concentrated on improving the contract system then. Right now for, pulbic contracts, its interface and useability are workable, but cumbersome. |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
11
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Posted - 2012.04.17 17:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Better contracts features for sure..
I would say a lot of market both scc and contracts should shift out to be available outside game client. This way you could conduct searches and data mining without causing load on ingame activity. Ideally it would be something like a "carbon copy" on ingame live content, and the usage would be by a sort of identifier. So you could find the contract(s) and would be able to save or send the ID to your ingame/outgame evemail. Then simply pick them up when you logged in. The data would get ported during downtime ofc.
This would bring store fronts of sorts and it would open the idea of better market historics. Dr E already promised this back in 2010 to me personally actually.
With the CREST and more API developments this is only a question of time I believe, before we see these ideas or very similar enter the game.
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LoBlo Fet
Blackstar Inc.
11
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Posted - 2012.04.17 17:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Baby steps. First and foremost having a decent contract user interface would be a start. Then being able to accept contracts at a distance (but not too far a distance). Those seem like reasonable starting points to me. |
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