|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
cornholio508
Berserking Roid Beavers Damned Nation
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 16:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Its a hard subject to have a debate on . I am not apposed to changes but some things should be left well enough alone . However CCP seem to be on the path of the welfare of many over the few .
I dont see the problem with the ore . from what i can tell null has everything . Low sec has less and high sec has only the readily available low cost ores . The problem as i see it is the drastic step from high to low sec as regards to mining at all . Yes you have the added benefit of another capital industrial ship but you lack in any kind of security what so ever for mining in low sec . So here is my proposal
High low and null sec . Main problems Suicide ganking afk mining bots perfect refining
[u]SOLUTION MINING [/u As asteroids are mined they create a dust cloud . This cloud interferes with all combat vessels increasing lock times . This then giving the miner a chance to get away . This favors the fleet of active pilots who are playing the game . The bigger the gang the more interference . However bots and AFK miners are still at risk of been ganked . The lower the security system the less of an effect this has with the effect been non existent in null
This way instead of high sec to low sec mining been like jumping off a cliff , you get several issues solved in one go
1 . You reduce suicide ganking to active groups in high sec 2. AFK miners are still open to suicide ganking 3. Bots are not protected by cowering behind active groups of miners 4. Give new players an easier time to get their bearings and make isk for much needed skills starting off . 5. also increasing the risk of suicide gankers not having their way b4 they get CONCORDOKENED 6. to having some security and time to call reinforcements in lowsec . This also helps teaches low sec corps the meaning of security fleets and some basic null tactics . 7. null sec jump not so difficult at the end of the day due to lessons learnt in .
[u]Counter to the solution for mining .[/u Adding a 2nd sensor booster would overcome that problem . This adds some real risk on the behalf of the suicide gankers . It would create a chance effect that suicide gankers may not complete their task b4 been concordokened due to reduced dps . Make the risk v reward work for suicide ganking in high sec too .
[u]NPC PREFECT REFINING .[/u As for perfect refining if the current system is changed too drastically it will only cause ore prices to soar . My propsal for this is as follows . Proposal 1 . NPC corp members . % increased loss for been in an npc corp even with perfect skills Corporations . % increase in cost of offices for use of 50% refine stations . OR 30%/50% optional when creating a corp office within a station . proposal 2 . Nerf 50% refine stations availability depending on the security . i.e 30% less 50% stations in high sec with a % increase in office costs . Leave low and null sec alone bar reducing costs of offices for corporations .
Now i know there is probably some wholes in my proposals . |
cornholio508
Berserking Roid Beavers Damned Nation
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 19:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:cornholio508 I like the idea of mining causing a dust cloud hampering targeting. Though bots most likely will start the running away script once the targeting starts...Though Seeing bots auto docking because you targeted them would be fun.. Using a Passive sensory array will not alert the hulk that he has been targeted. Targeting a person does not cause aggro from concord, so I don't see how this will reduce the amount of damage being done to a ship. With Concords current response time, only 1 ship can be destroyed by a suicide ganker before he is concorded
The Clouds also would help change the combat around asteroids, changing up combat in that area. Maybe i wasn't too clear on my point about this . yes passive targeting doesn't does not alert the miner . However active miners would see a cheap ship sitting there ready to pounce , and go OK time to move . Now in order for them to have a higher success rate they would have to add more sensor boosters . This in turn normally reduces cap there for reducing the amount of lows they can commit to weapons upgrades . This in turn reduces their overall dps
Gevlin wrote: The Question of Risk vs rewards is not clear when Suicide ganking GÇô The rewards of tears, death threats, from the care bear carries great weight. Even after the Increase in Faction hits in 2009(?) and removal of insurance payout in 2011 the level of suicide ganks are happening at the same rate
The problem with suicide ganking steams from botting . We all know this . It was the only way to counter bots in high sec . So it took off . Unfortunately it went in the wrong direction and ganking bots is used as an excuse to do it . Yes in game they do get punished . However their kill boards is where the reward is . Ships destroyed by concord don't show on kill boards . Even if they did their efficiency would still be massive due to the way the kill board calculates it . Now on the other hand if ccp managed to find a way to stop all suicide ganked ships from appearing on kill boards then it would end suicide ganking .
The main question here is do we want to stop suicide ganking In my opinion NO we don't . It is a viable way to stop botting from a players perspective . That is until CCP deal with them .
DO we need a counter for ganking Yes . We definitely need to be able to at least get away from gankers . |
cornholio508
Berserking Roid Beavers Damned Nation
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 02:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
ORES AND WHERE THEY ARE . I really have to disagree with the idea of changing the ore amounts and where they are mined . That system as far as i can see is fine . Null sec have the advantage of mining with 2 capital class ships . This is something high sec does not have the luxury of . A good null sec mining group will have a rorqual in a pos full time boosting and compressing ore while using an orca to haul the ores from the miners back and fourth . this means there is always one ship boosting . since it is sitting in a pos it can just offload to corporate hangers where a freighter can come and pick it up .
In high sec they loose out on boosts every now and again or have to sacrifice one mining barge in exchange for a orca so we dont loose boosts . Either way high sec looses out in ore amounts to mining time . However its safer in high sec they have the luxury of jet caning while an orca is off the field unloading .
Now to the second point of this . I dont think adding these extra scannable sights will be of any use to anyone in high sec . Believe it or not they are usually scanned down and mined out in minutes by npc players . By the time a serious industry corp and alliance get to these sites there is usually nothing left worth mining for the amount of people they bring and the lenghth of time it takes to get them there .
The current system work fine . To be honest you can get all the ores you need in high sec . Though some of it is in small quantities . All you need to do is base your operations in different parts of high sec . Usually between amarr caldari gallente and mimitar space you can mine everything you will ever need to build a ship . The only problem is time or the cost to base yourself out of more than one part of empire space .
Also ontop of that the current system works with null supplying high end and high sec providing low end ores . This is what keeps the market going . Excess ores from high sec and null sec are sold on the markets . We all know with manufacturing null sec ores are a small part of ship building in general . High sec low end ores are the highest quantities of any ore for building ships . With the current system i can by my high sec ores with the excess high ends i dont need and visa versa .
ACT OF MINING Mining itself should have changed made . Either buff the mining vessels or give attributed to the belts to help miners escape from potential pvp situations . Some of the ideas is as follows .
1 . Add rogue drones to belts . These drones do not target ships unless they are combat capable . Suicide ganking and possible ganking of any miner is reduced due to the drones instantly targeting any combat vessel on belts . As they are destroyed more drones spawn overwhelming the pvp pilot . This means they either leave or die . Drones also mine the belts when combat ships appear . They immediately do this to replicate themselves to send more out . This idea is not mine . cant remember the thread it was in to give props to the poster .
2 . The belts themselves are the protection of the miners . Dust from mining is created interfering with combat ships sensors taking them longer to lock up . They still have the ability to suicide gank but only if players are inactive or the occasional bot . This one is my idea .
3 . New drone mining vessel . Huge tank and cargo capacity . Massive bonuses to mining drones to make it competitive with the current exhumers . again this is not my idea . Its a thread i recently read but cant seem to find it again . so props to the poster is he is reading this ,
4. As Gevlin said . remove one high and give it extra lows or mids to compensate for a descent tank . (however to add to his idea , if this is done to exhumers they would need a major increase in yeild bonuses to the ship or i will make it obsolete and people would just fly coveters .)
REFINING BUILDING IN POS AND OUTPOSTS As for refining reprocessing and general industry i think NPC should be left alone . Maybe reduce the amount of 50% refine stations or limit other things like manufacturing in these stations . However the true null or sov side of needs buff or rebuild of the current system .
I know CCP are going to make the POS modular . In other words all mods will directly fit to the main pos structure making them a structure you can dock in . Not sure how they are going to do this and if docking in them will be restricted to those with corporate hangers and ship maintenance arrays . However i think the same should be done to outposts . They should be configurable across the board like a pos but regardless of how they are configured they are always dockable in . Give them all the same powergrid and cpu but their defenses the same as their races . This way they can only be configurable on a limited basis for what the corporation / alliance needs that owns that station .
Ie stations configured for mining /manufacturing has severely reduced amounts offices and research slots . A maxed out research facility with lots of offices has severely reduced reprocessing abilities and manufacturing slots . this means they can only be configured a few different ways .
I have no idea how outposts work . Its just a though . only dealings i ever has with an outpost is blowing them up or docking in them . If someone want to add to my idea about it with a bit more detail then please do so . |
cornholio508
Berserking Roid Beavers Damned Nation
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 19:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just had another think about the whole mining system . I had an idea that may or may not be to any ones liking but i think it would work without breaking the current system too much .
Increase all mining barges natural structure so that 1 suicide pilot cannot take them out in 1-2 volleys in a destroyer . Destroyers the main ship for suicide ganking in high sec . Add some other draw backs to the mining barges . i will use the current hulk as an example .
Sheild ehp : 1519 hp Amour ehp : 1013hp structure ehp : 2531hp
Now as for my idea i would double or triple the structure of the ship . This brings it more in line with what it should be as a t2 industrial vessel and also gives time to survive an illegal offence by other pilots while concord intervene .
Sheild ehp : 1519 hp Amour ehp : 1013hp structure ehp : 7000hp
New ship stats . Mining Barge Skill Bonus: 3% better yield for Strip Miners per level 7.5% bonus to all shield resistances per level
Exhumers Skill Bonus: 3% better yield for Strip Miners per level 3% reduction in Ice Harvester duration per level
Role Bonus: Able to equip Strip Miner and Ice Harvester turrets . Draw back . Structure takes damage over time reducing its structure to 2531 hp for using strip miners and ice harvesters .
Rewards . players get a ship with the ability to survive a suicide gank . Low sec and null miners get their tank fits boosted slightly and have time to get fleet pvp support .
Draw backs . people not watching their ships get reduced structure over time . Isk sink for ship repairs . or -1 or mining barge replaced by logi support and / or drones . Still gankable but harder to do so solo unless using more expensive high dps ships .
overall benefits ingame with the current game mechanics . Suicide ganking still possible . Bots and solo miners have a isk sink for mining . People ignoring the damage because it only gets damaged to a certain extent would be gankable . Creates a counter strategy to suicide ganking even though it has its costs . This way ships can be fitted they way they were meant to instead of having insanely small holds for high resists or high shield ehp .
Inspiration wrote:As for thew ideas about different belt pre respawn mechanics...it just is not dynamic enough as the belts are always in the same exact spot in space. Ore belts should be replaced entirely by gravimetric sites. And some small low-value sites for the starting miner should be able to be found with the on board scanner. And this scanning this should be part of the starting tutorials.
Furthermore, some ore rocks should be "spiked" with tiny amount of other ores. A rock is thus not pure scordite for example, but also contains possible traces of ANY other ore. You cannot mine for these traces explicitly, but it would provide small amounts or high end minerals to dedicated mining/manufacturing corporations. This idea i like . Maybe is should also be considered for null and low sec for all ore types . This way people wouldnt moan so much about what ores they mine . As long as they are getting some ABC ores |
cornholio508
Berserking Roid Beavers Damned Nation
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 10:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:Inspiration wrote:As for the true cause of suicide ganks versus miners...
The ganker gets insurance payout, even if he got killed while flagged by concord in high sec. Remove this imbalance in cost versus reward and only the true meaningful ganks remain as blatantly killing every miner is going to cost a whole lot more!
* We still need a buff to structure to prevent small cheap ships from succeeding in a quick gank of course, let them need at least a battle cruiser without getting insurance payout. Even then the ganker doesn't loose much compared to the ship being ganked, but at least it ain't profitable then by selling the loot unless it is faction gear! insurance payout for suicide ganking were removed in cruiceible - I believe To avoid the technology creep a new ship that mirrors the ore ships with s larger tank and a smaller yield. with the introduction of the fleet ships we can hope that the 4 Races produce some hardened tanked ships.
Yes the insurance payout has been nerfed . Also i wish they would also nerf kill mails for illegal activities . THis would go a long way to prevent suicide ganking . Some corps / alliances have been known to go on suicide ganking roams to improve their killboard efficiency . I dont think thye should be rewarded for doing this |
cornholio508
Berserking Roid Beavers Lawful Insanity
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 18:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well Here what i think on the mining debate ,Yes we need changes . Its good that CCP are adding new features and rebuffing debuffing ships and so on . The problem is everything seems to be centered around PVP . No thought seems to be given to industry .
I have submitted a few ideas . However i would like to get more people posting here instead of other threads been started up daily . SO heres a reminder on what i propose for change in industry ,
Hulk buff . Increase its structure HP so that it cant be taken out by a cheap destroyer fit .
Remove outposts racial bonuses and make the bonuses selectable depending and what the outpost is used for . Outposts bonuses should be the same as the pos as in regards to its fitting and its structure
Remove industry suicide ganks from killmails .
Redo the mining system as a whole . More irratic changes to belts and ore availability and increased grav site availability .
Add dust clouds to actively mined belts to allow members to escape potential pvp situations . |
|
|
|