Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 10:16:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 13/01/2009 10:17:56 Now read a bit more before answering the topic.
I'll use an example to avoid a wall of text;
New player joins game. New players plays around a bit. New player notices that people hate high-sec. New player doesn't want to be hated. New player goes to low-sec/0.0. New player gets royally...well...you know..royalled. New player thinks "screw this" and quits.
You see where i see a potential problem with excessive antipathy towards high-sec?
People don't like, by default, to be disliked in a "epeen" kind of way, even if they like to be hated via pirate means. So they go where the general "acceptance" leads them, which in this case is very dangerous waters filled with annoyance. Not counting the few upsteamers who try to do things noone does, which is foolish ofcourse in general and takes a lot of work to succeed and with the attention span of new players to new worlds, well...
I'll leave it open for discussion, please do ask for definitions if needed.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 10:19:00 -
[2]
I think most people avoid Low Sec like the plague, and just plain don't "get" nullsec. So even though there may be vocal proponents of the <0.5 systems on the forum, the majority of players in-game will still stick to High Sec once they learn to appreciate the rewards that are available there.
|
Lui Kai
Logistics Incorporated
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 10:31:00 -
[3]
I personally fell into this trap, though not in the way you describe - and obviously not culminating in my leaving the game.
When I first joined Eve, I looked at it like a "normal" MMO - and looked for what the "end game" state would be. To most new players, and to me at that time, the logical conclusion was 0.0 sovereignty warfare.
It took me many months and many misplaced SP before I figured out that highsec was where I enjoyed the game, and carebearing was the way I enjoyed the sandbox. ----------------
|
H Lecter
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 10:44:00 -
[4]
Everyone does as he pleases. Epeen recognition is the wrong motivation for going to losec, you should only do it for fun or don't do it at all. There is nothing wrong if someone prefers to stay in hisec - if it's fun for you, do it!
My opinion is purely personal and not related to my alliance |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 11:14:00 -
[5]
New players only tend to find all the anti-high sec littanys on the forums were all the leet grandstanders like to play so eh not really an issue as the people who come to the forums are like .5% of the playerbase. If local chat is any indication then the vast majority of ingame players absolutely love high sec. Might be a reason why only 19% of the population is not living in high sec after all.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Kale Kold
Caldari Brutal Seizure
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 11:17:00 -
[6]
More people should come into lowsec, no seriously...
|
Aylara
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 11:24:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Aylara on 13/01/2009 11:24:47
Originally by: Kale Kold More people should come into lowsec, no seriously...
Well, we have the new gates and agility buff, so all we can do now it's wait! It will take some time, but maybe more players will find their courage to go into low-sec and 0.0 (especially NPC 0.0)
|
Paul Morphy
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 11:27:00 -
[8]
Replying, like others, for the hell of typing out some words.
|
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 11:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Aylara Edited by: Aylara on 13/01/2009 11:24:47
Originally by: Kale Kold More people should come into lowsec, no seriously...
Well, we have the new gates and agility buff, so all we can do now it's wait! It will take some time, but maybe more players will find their courage to go into low-sec and 0.0 (especially NPC 0.0)
Its not really about courage as I see and know lots of high sec dwellers who ventured out. Problem is they all come back after not earning enough isk to make it worth the effort. Its just to easy to make loads of isk in high sec so most don't bother. Face it guys, the majority of eve play it like they would any other grind mmo and just accumulate stuff not really making any use of it past epeen strutting and competeting in missions with the player who runs it the fastest winning. This is why low sec and to a much lesser extent 0.0 need some buffs to attract all the grind oriented players out of the warm comfy womb so the pvp oriented ones can have a bit of fun too. This is why I wish CCP would bring back low sec static plexs as it was great fun stalking the more adventurous carebears trying to get into them. |
Bumbum George
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 11:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones New player joins game. New players plays around a bit. New player notices that people hate high-sec. New player doesn't want to be hated. New player goes to low-sec/0.0. New player gets royally...well...you know..royalled. New player thinks "screw this" and quits.
Works as intended imo.
There are enough players that go to 0.0 right away/very soon and do not think "screw this". This is a) because they are doing it right and b) because they are cut out for a life in 0.0
The rest of em can stay in high sec or gtfo, Eve isn't for everyone and it should not be. It's a niche product so stop whining! |
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 12:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Bumbum George The rest of em can stay in high sec or gtfo, Eve isn't for everyone and it should not be. It's a niche product so stop whining!
And that's a problem.
Every games should be treated with equal rights.
I say those who treat someone with a "do this or gtfo" mentality should, ironically, gtfo. Noone benefits from elitism and other behavior like that. |
Nakupci
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 12:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Aylara Edited by: Aylara on 13/01/2009 11:24:47
Originally by: Kale Kold More people should come into lowsec, no seriously...
Well, we have the new gates and agility buff, so all we can do now it's wait! It will take some time, but maybe more players will find their courage to go into low-sec and 0.0 (especially NPC 0.0)
Its not really about courage as I see and know lots of high sec dwellers who ventured out. Problem is they all come back after not earning enough isk to make it worth the effort. Its just to easy to make loads of isk in high sec so most don't bother. Face it guys, the majority of eve play it like they would any other grind mmo and just accumulate stuff not really making any use of it past epeen strutting and competeting in missions with the player who runs it the fastest winning. This is why low sec and to a much lesser extent 0.0 need some buffs to attract all the grind oriented players out of the warm comfy womb so the pvp oriented ones can have a bit of fun too. This is why I wish CCP would bring back low sec static plexs as it was great fun stalking the more adventurous carebears trying to get into them.
you dont understand it really. they dont want to be your target. They will not go there. There are peoples who want to play in relative safety,if you take it from them,they will not play at all. Its not like they are forced to pay $ to be your target:) |
Bumbum George
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 12:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Bumbum George The rest of em can stay in high sec or gtfo, Eve isn't for everyone and it should not be. It's a niche product so stop whining!
And that's a problem.
Every games should be treated with equal rights.
I say those who treat someone with a "do this or gtfo" mentality should, ironically, gtfo. Noone benefits from elitism and other behavior like that.
But it's not the players, it is in fact the game that sets the boundaries, the players just act within those boundaries. Eve has none with is what it makes it kinda unique.
Oh and I don't think games should be treated with equal rights, as far as I know thats an exclusive benefit of human beings. You might wana take up politics and change that thou...
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 12:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Bumbum George But it's not the players, it is in fact the game that sets the boundaries, the players just act within those boundaries. Eve has none with is what it makes it kinda unique.
Oh and I don't think games should be treated with equal rights, as far as I know thats an exclusive benefit of human beings. You might wana take up politics and change that thou...
I know, EVE has that overly used picture of the curve. It is harsh, but what i meant more is that people shouldn't go telling people to gtfo, but rather suggest them altenatives etc.
New players getting "the shaft" right after first problems, kind of puts them in the wrong mood.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 12:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nakupci you dont understand it really. they dont want to be your target. They will not go there. There are peoples who want to play in relative safety,if you take it from them,they will not play at all. Its not like they are forced to pay $ to be your target:)
No you misunderstand me. Whilst over 80% of the playerbase might stay in high sec its not because they are all toothless carebears wanting to avoid any and all confrontation its because for the majority of small corps its just not worth the effort to make a claim in low sec or 0.0 systems. All the 0.0 systems (pitiful few that there are) that are worth more than empire are filled with outposts and angry buzzing alliances who will hotdrop multiple captials on a single player just for the lulz and all the low sec empire systems just plain suck compared to high sec. Up the rewards to much better than high sec and I'm sure a significant percentage of the 80% will venture out to make a claim then realize that pvp can be fun if the rewards are worth the effort of defending it.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Bumbum George
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 12:30:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Bumbum George But it's not the players, it is in fact the game that sets the boundaries, the players just act within those boundaries. Eve has none with is what it makes it kinda unique.
Oh and I don't think games should be treated with equal rights, as far as I know thats an exclusive benefit of human beings. You might wana take up politics and change that thou...
I know, EVE has that overly used picture of the curve. It is harsh, but what i meant more is that people shouldn't go telling people to gtfo, but rather suggest them altenatives etc.
New players getting "the shaft" right after first problems, kind of puts them in the wrong mood.
PLEASE don't confuse the forums with what happens in game! There are quite a bunch of corps that are happy to give new players a home, teach them and take them to 0.0 as soon as they are ready/fell that they are ready or somewhat useful.
It depends a lot on the new players how they deal with the difficulties but also opportunities Eve offers, some are cut out for it some are not.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with needing help or even not liking Eve, there's just a problem with how players tend to deal with those situations!
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 12:34:00 -
[17]
I'm not saying "everyone in lowsec is treating new guys like jerks", and i don't confuse forums to ingame, no putting words in any mouths. Or any other things thank you
That's exactly what i said, helping is good, giving advice is good, telling someone off because they are complaining about a relatively bad experience that comes as a shock(as first times in lowsec tend to do) is not ok.
Also, more about how the whole high-sec vs low-sec thing has increased over the few months. The competition between the two is ok, game given even, but being a, excuse the french, **** about it should be eradicated.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Bumbum George
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 12:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones telling someone off because they are complaining about a relatively bad experience that comes as a shock(as first times in lowsec tend to do) is not ok.
I beg to differ.
If someone is complaining he or she will simply get a gtfo from me (and not only me).
If this person asks for help and advise how to avoid those situations or improve themselves to cope with them he or she WILL get the help they seek.
So we note: asking for help and being willing to listen: GOOD Dumb complaining: BAD
Easy as that!
|
keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 12:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones New player gets royally...well...you know..royalled.
This would not be a problem if the risk of the above happening was offset by the rewards of low/nullsec.
It isnt, because a) the raw monetary rewards per-player arent that much higher, or in some cases even lower and b) when you leave aside missions, low/nullsec systesm can support barely 1/100th of the players a busy mission system can support.
We know this, players know this, CCP knows this, this hasnt changed in any way whatsoever since I started playing in 2006 (possibly its worse now).
That CCP has yet to do anything that actually addresses this (no, moving q20 lvl4 agents and adding lvl5 agents doesnt cut it) is the main reason why I find it hard to take their statements seriously. ... and I really think they should boost T2 plate HP.
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 12:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Bumbum George
Originally by: Sheriff Jones telling someone off because they are complaining about a relatively bad experience that comes as a shock(as first times in lowsec tend to do) is not ok.
I beg to differ.
If someone is complaining he or she will simply get a gtfo from me (and not only me).
If this person asks for help and advise how to avoid those situations or improve themselves to cope with them he or she WILL get the help they seek.
So we note: asking for help and being willing to listen: GOOD Dumb complaining: BAD
Easy as that!
If it was as "easy".
You enter lowsec and know nothing about it, not ready for the shock of losing your ship, and in some cases POD too, then get smacked, or not, but you're OFCOURSE ****ed off at the situation.
I doubt majority of players went "Oh gee, shucks, i lost my ship and now i need to gather a whole new week of stuff to try this again. Maybe those nice people who shot me would give some pointers."
You're saying helping is good, as am i, but you know as well as i do that there are people who lol-noob people straight off the bat, ridicule their fittings etc and from what i've read, you're agreeing that this kind of behavior isn't needed.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
|
Par'Gellen
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 13:22:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 13/01/2009 13:31:40
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Bumbum George The rest of em can stay in high sec or gtfo, Eve isn't for everyone and it should not be. It's a niche product so stop whining!
And that's a problem.
Every games should be treated with equal rights.
I say those who treat someone with a "do this or gtfo" mentality should, ironically, gtfo. Noone benefits from elitism and other behavior like that.
Pyramid quoted for clarity.
100% agree Sheriff. This is a prime example of the kind of people that should, as he put it, "gtfo".
Nobody likes an asshat. People that aspire to be one (even virtually) obviously have serious mental issues. In some games it's the objective (like Quake, Unreal Tournament, etc.) and that's fine. Those games have their place and are great fun. In others it's more like real life (Eve) where you CAN do a bad thing but normally SHOULDN'T.
Personally I think too many of the FPS crowd have stumbled across Eve and think it's Quake in space. They can easily be identified by their mantra "It's just a game!".
If they seriously think Eve is "just a game" then they're clearly playing the wrong one. I kinda feel sorry for them actually. |
Bumbum George
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 13:29:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones You enter lowsec and know nothing about it, not ready for the shock of losing your ship, and in some cases POD too, then get smacked, or not, but you're OFCOURSE ****ed off at the situation.
Yeah, of course you're ****ed, I know I was, but it is a VERY valuable experience nonetheless. Again how you deal with experiences like that determine weather Eve is the kind of game for you or not.
Originally by: Sheriff Jones You're saying helping is good, as am i, but you know as well as i do that there are people who lol-noob people straight off the bat, ridicule their fittings etc and from what i've read, you're agreeing that this kind of behavior isn't needed.
I'm afraid you got you got me wrong there. We "lol-noob" and ridicule the fittings of our new players in the corp I'm in and we would never consider doing it any other way. And again how the newbies cope with that determines if they will have a long and successful feature in our corp or not. You gotta be able to deal with setbacks, smack talk, laughter and many other nasty things if you want to enjoy Eve (as well as life ) for a longer period of time.
The fact that we give advise and active help on how to avoid those situations on top of laughing at you is probably one of the reasons were around for quite a while now |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 13:34:00 -
[23]
What you do to corp-mates is ofcourse completely up to you, but a new player who you should try and keep in the game, or EVE to succeed further, you shouldn't. My whole point.
Ridiculing someone for a poor fitting, when they've just entered the game, or even smacktalking them, is not helpful to the game.
Yes, smacktalk is part of the game, but it's also harmful for the game. |
Onyx Celestia
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 13:39:00 -
[24]
There wouldn't be so many characters signed up for FW if antipathy toward "the carebear way" was a general problem in Eve.
I think the biggest "putoff" in the game for me is the intense demand on my time for 0.0 alliance fleet combat, which is why I never wind up staying in those types of corps for long with any of my girls. Being a single parent with two children (and one of those being a preschooler), I just can never swing null-sec alliance life for any length of time.
But we all have our situations to deal with. Just my 2 isk there. |
Par'Gellen
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 13:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones What you do to corp-mates is ofcourse completely up to you, but a new player who you should try and keep in the game, or EVE to succeed further, you shouldn't. My whole point.
Ridiculing someone for a poor fitting, when they've just entered the game, or even smacktalking them, is not helpful to the game.
Yes, smacktalk is part of the game, but it's also harmful for the game.
This is the very issue that I'm amazed CCP doesn't address. It's almost like they ENJOY losing customers.
I've never seen a company act in such a self-destructive manner. Much less build "new customer repellent" INTO a product. Bizzare... |
Bumbum George
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 13:44:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Bumbum George on 13/01/2009 13:45:08
Originally by: Par'Gellen This is the very issue that I'm amazed CCP doesn't address. It's almost like they ENJOY losing customers.
I've never seen a company act in such a self-destructive manner. Much less build "new customer repellent" INTO a product. Bizzare...
And jet it seems to work. Ever asked yourself why???
But who cares, Eve is dying anyway isn't it... |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 13:45:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Par'Gellen This is the very issue that I'm amazed CCP doesn't address. It's almost like they ENJOY losing customers.
I've never seen a company act in such a self-destructive manner. Much less build "new customer repellent" INTO a product. Bizzare...
And yet Eve grows steadily from month to month. They are obviously doing something right if the emoragequit numbers are less than the omgeveistehpwnirstaying crowd. |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 13:46:00 -
[28]
Nobody ofcourse, well i'm not, is saying that EVE is dying, on the contrary, but i am an avid defender of common decency
No wait...not decency...that's not me |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 13:49:00 -
[29]
Well I would say the of all the things that are common in eve decency is moast likely not one of them. Cold dark harse emo place etc etc. |
Bumbum George
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 13:59:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones i am an avid defender of common decency
Well decency is something CCP can not and imo should not impose on the players.
Right now Eve is a display of human behavior presented in a virtual environment. As soon as it stops being that I for one am outa here |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |