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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Lothris Andastar
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:04:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Kaya Divine My subscription plan will last up to April. After March because of graphic card which will not support Premium Lite I will not be able to play. For those which subscriptions are even longer, and because of change of minimum requirements I hope that CCP will offer reimbursements.
If your PC cant support Premium Lite, then its 10+ years old, and you have better things to spend your money on (like a new PC) than eve.
Bye, noone will miss you.
be glad they even gave you two months heads up so u can buy a new GFX card eh? |
To'Shua
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:06:00 -
[92]
My HP laptop (my only computer), has an ATI Radeon 9000 card, and does not support Shadermodel 2. After the expansion in March, I will have to find another solution for playing EVE or quit (after 4.5 years). Don't bother telling me to buy a new computer: like a lot of other older players who are no longer in school, I have mortgage payments, car payments, etc., and buying a new computer to replace one that still does everything else I need to do is not going to happen. |
Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:06:00 -
[93]
A couple of reservations:
- While I suspect that getting a SM2 (or SM3) capable card isn't problematic in most desktops, as the cost for buying such a video card is relatively low. But a lot of laptops and integrated video cards aren't that lucky, and upgrading entire systems IS a big deal.
- My main systems (at home) are more then capable to run SM3, that's not what I'm worried about. But some of the locations I'm a I have only access to older laptops and/or desktops (that I can't upgrade). While I don't plan to do combat on those machines, I do like to change my skills and check the market, maybe some sort of compromise could be made for such activities. Suggestions: web based interface, a very light mode that disables 3D and only allows in-station activities (trade/skill change/production), a separate program that allows only skill change and trade.
- While requiring your players to upgrade within a certain time frame isn't that much to ask, but please keep in mind that a lot of countries have a write of time for computers of 5 years, and the computers bought 4 years ago didn't all have top of the line computers.
- Your players aren't all hardcore 3D fanatics, and many will appreciate great 3D graphics (like myself), not all of them are folks that would buy a computer with a 'high end' video card (especially laptop users).
- Isn't making a two jumps in system requirements within a 6-9 month period a bit much on your fans?
- The Classic client is pretty tested and reasonably stable, in my experience the premium client wasn't. I have to admit I haven't 'really' tried it in a while (and am updating my clients now and trying it out), but I have not much faith that I can run four clients with the same kind of performance as I do now with the Classic client (Q6600, 8800GTS640, 4x1200*1600).
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Weeka
Lyonesse. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:09:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Miz Cenuij you have to laugh at a company that chooses to force a large portion of its customers to upgrade in the middle of a financial crisis.
And which "large portion" would that be? To actually demand that a contemporary game supports hardware that is undeniably outdated, is optimistic at best.
If it leads to better performance, I'm all for it. As being said we're talking like 20 bucks here for desktops, do something for your economy, upgrade. |
Darjin Maljoran
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:09:00 -
[95]
With the Lite version my desktop shoudn't have a (large) problem (gforce 6800, SM).But i'm frequently not at home and at my desktop.
But i can't update my laptops (Intel 915GMS, only SM2) and a only 1 year old eee-pc (Intel 915GMS), which are used for eve-playing during travel.
For me, SM2 support is important after 2009! |
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:10:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Amana Geddon SM 1 can go, is it even supported in Vista as it is?
We are currently using the August 2007 version of Microsoft's DirectX SDK for the Premium edition. It doesn't support SM1. |
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:12:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
If your PC cant support Premium Lite, then its 10+ years old, and you have better things to spend your money on (like a new PC) than eve.
Bye, noone will miss you.
be glad they even gave you two months heads up so u can buy a new GFX card eh?
I hate this attitude.
My laptop has shader model 1.4, and there is no way I am upgrading it, I just can't afford to what with the way the economy is going. I bought it specifically because it could run Eve, and at the time that meant buying a ú1200 machine.
It may be "junk" by modern standards, but actually it is perfectly adequate for general family use (it's a Sony PCG-K115Z), and I can use it to get my Eve fix when I am away from home. If there is a real need to up the minimum specs then I guess I have to accept that, but what exactly is it that CCP are adding that Classic couldn't represent? I am guessing nothing. Rendering my laptop unable to play Eve, the very reason I choose this specific machine, just because coding and maintaining Classic takes some effort is damn insulting.
Gah. |
Leeham
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:12:00 -
[98]
I hate to disturb the argument here regarding people being excluded but will Premium Light graphically represent prenium or classic?
I still prefer the classic colour schemes over the generic metallic green/silver/gold |
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:14:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Leeham I hate to disturb the argument here regarding people being excluded but will Premium Light graphically represent prenium or classic?
Premium Light will be an "auto-generated SM2 version" of the current Premium art content (which is SM3). |
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Salligtatorp
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:17:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Salligtatorp on 13/01/2009 21:17:02 I've 2 computers, one of them is EEE PC, that i always have with myself, and i use it to play EVE at the university, and at home at the week-end, and using my normal PC for the rest of the time.
EEE PC is letting me to log in, change skills, trade, fly around, mine, even to fight a little bit without much risks. But still on minimum settings, FPS is not high and not enough for comfort. If I'll not be able to start up Premium Lite on EEE PC, i'll probably stop playing and paying EVE. The same goes for SM3, netbooks like EEE PC or Aser Aspire One, probably MSI WIND too are not SM3 compatible. It's easy to say that graphic cards are cheap, but what to do with notebooks? Buy a new one each time? Premium Lite may be a good idea, if it will require the same CPU-GPU power as Classic, if it will need more, a lot of people like me, will be just thrown away. SM3 is definitely not a great idea. It's just too fast to drop 2 SM levels in less than a year.
"We estimate that about 95% of all subscribers currently have hardware that is SM2 compatible. We further predict that in q4 this year over 97% of subscribers will have SM3 capable hardware. This means that an estimate of anywhere from 3%-5% of current subscribers would have to update their computers or graphics cards to be able to continue playing"
Sure, 3-5%, but at the current world situation, i guess every % counts. Why not to make a possibility to take off space rendering? To make it a pure tactics mode? Like in EVE we have a tactical view option, to do something like that, take away the free camera rotations or maybe even any visualisation. EVE is a space game, not a simulator, you can do most of the stuff only using the overview scanner, ship control panel and neocom panel.T hose on low-end computers, may like it |
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Kaya Divine
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:17:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: Kaya Divine My subscription plan will last up to April. After March because of graphic card which will not support Premium Lite I will not be able to play. For those which subscriptions are even longer, and because of change of minimum requirements I hope that CCP will offer reimbursements.
If your PC cant support Premium Lite, then its 10+ years old, and you have better things to spend your money on (like a new PC) than eve.
Bye, noone will miss you.
be glad they even gave you two months heads up so u can buy a new GFX card eh?
I do think that this is sad trolling, because if you don`t know answer, you shouldn't answer on statement or question.
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Malrock
Caldari Mea Culpa Enigma Nexus-Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:18:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Malrock on 13/01/2009 21:24:56 You know, i dont understand all the fuss. Id say most of the gamers (from avrage and above) upgrade PC at least once in 2-3 years, Enthusiasts upgrade PC every 6 months, so why all the fuss about going on SM3 ?
Yes i do know that laptops arent the best things to play eve and classic made many of them playable but lets face it, you wouldnt go into combat on the low end laptop anyways, most people use them for mining or hauling or scouting, at least ones i know (excuse me for generalization).
Screaming blody murder and threatening to leave eve is just silly for such issue. If you cant afford new graphical card, well, cancel subsrciption for 6 months, buy new graphics card and resume sub, problem solved.
And just for a fact, SM4 is available on cards thats price starts from 65$, if you dont belive me just go on Tom's site and check the best graphics cards for your money January 2009
As for reasoning, i think eve graphical quality is POOR even on premium, theres tons of ways to make it better, yes, needs better hardware but the evolution will be worth it as immersion will be far greater then basic sprite pew-pew you can see on java/flash games.
Id like to see CCP really crank up the graphics, but at the same time id like to see more control over the engine so you can better profile the client depending on what are you doing (extreame quality for fraps / mining / exploration, moderate quality for missioning, low quality for pvp for better responsivness), so instead of blasting CCP for keeping up with hardware evolution all of you should actualy be asking more control over client optimization & profiling.
And just for argument sake - im running on 4 year old PC, the only thing that has been constantly (at least once a year) upgraded is my graphics card, at current times its 8800GT - a true beast, well worth of its money (100 $)
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Elgae Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:21:00 -
[103]
I think CCP has lost its grip on the whole eve thing anyway...
Why are you surprised with this move...
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Lockefox
Caldari Darkmatter Conglomerate
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:23:00 -
[104]
Completely understand and support the move to better graphics/client/etc.
But allow me my 2 cents. I have older, still decent laptops that would not be able to handle the second half (shader 3) upgrades, and I would really prefer not to scrap my lesser machines.
Just thought I'd offer my comment if for nothing more than to be added to the statistic pool. ~Locke |
Narni
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:23:00 -
[105]
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Originally by: Gerome Doutrande Are you also considering laptops when looking a sm 2/3 support? What would be the implications for those when going to sm 2 and especially sm 3? (Imagine a generic remark about laptops selling better than "proper PCs" here.)
We are in fact considering laptops, most new onboard Intel cards support SM2 or SM3 (the GMA series as per here)
Oh, so Intel bought shares in your company?
Never used Intel, never will. |
Akularen
Amarr Nomads Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:26:00 -
[106]
As someone mentioned before decent graphics cards, are SO cheap nowadays. if you still think they're too expensive, there's always ebay |
chawks
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:26:00 -
[107]
The laptop issue is the key. Even if only 5% of subscribers use machines with less than SM2, is the cost of having two versions more than the loss of 5% of subscriptions?
My guess is no.
Also, many users may have a pc that supports SM2+ but at times play using a laptop with less than SM2. That could be a further 5% or more that impacts the time available to play and possibly makes users less likely to stay subscribed.
My laptop has Nvidia 8400GS and my desktop has Nvidia 8800 something or other (both SM4), so I am not impacted, but just my 2 cents. |
To'Shua
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:27:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: Kaya Divine My subscription plan will last up to April. After March because of graphic card which will not support Premium Lite I will not be able to play. For those which subscriptions are even longer, and because of change of minimum requirements I hope that CCP will offer reimbursements.
If your PC cant support Premium Lite, then its 10+ years old, and you have better things to spend your money on (like a new PC) than eve.
Bye, noone will miss you.
be glad they even gave you two months heads up so u can buy a new GFX card eh?
You might want to check your data before speaking. My HP laptop, purchased new in the spring of 2004 (HP Pavilion zv5160us) uses an ATI Radeon 9000, but does not support Shadermodel 2. I purchased this computer for its ability to run EVE, as well as do all the other household computing needs, like online banking, email, internet access, word processing, etc. A five-year old computer is not that unusual, if it is still doing everything it needs to do. Requiring me to buy a new computer just to play a game, and just to save some programmers some effort in producing prettier pictures, doesn't strike me as being a good thing.
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lagrange gormo
Gallente Echolalia. Shangri-La.
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:28:00 -
[109]
Seeing as we're well and truly into a global recession, what makes CCP really think we have money to spend on new equipment on top of subscriptions and internet connections. Yes basic graphics cards that can handle this are cheap but when you have little money, a graphics card is a total waste. Of course this has been the general attitude from the computer industry for quite some time, the end user has bottomless pockets and will upgrade their hardware. OK, CCP have been better than most by supporting "obselete" hardware for this long but given the current financial climate, they showing they run on assumptions undisturbed by reality. Given recent events, somewhat shocking for an Icelandic company. This move is foolhardy at best and will lose CCP customers |
Ervol Libra
Amarr Invenio Inceptum
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:29:00 -
[110]
I won't be able to use my laptop anymore then |
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farfrael
Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:30:00 -
[111]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Leeham I hate to disturb the argument here regarding people being excluded but will Premium Light graphically represent prenium or classic?
Premium Light will be an "auto-generated SM2 version" of the current Premium art content (which is SM3).
How about Linux? Are you planning to continue supporting this OS? |
Gone'Postal
Aztec Industry
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:33:00 -
[112]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Gone'Postal Sounds good to me...
but my amiga can't run eve :(
oh no, your girlfriend can't play eve?
huh? |
Too Quacky
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:35:00 -
[113]
Well luckily I can go on with Eve but alas a few friends of mine will not be able to use this lite client.
What is going on here is that Zulupark bought a bit bag of discounted nails from the hardware store before he started at CCP and he is doing his damndest to drive them all into the coffin.
Never forget the carrier nerf! |
Kaganis Warmonkey
Caldari Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:37:00 -
[114]
Quote: Step 1: In Apocrypha, March 10th, we discontinue support for ShaderModel 1, making ShaderModel 2 (GeForce FX (5 series) or ATi R300 series cards or compatible) the minimum requirement and discontinue the "Classic client" version of EVE, replacing it with "Premium Lite"
That shouldn't be too hard to meet, if you've got a graphic card that could meet EVE's original minimum specs, you can upgrade it pretty cheap to an old AGP card that can meet these.
Quote: Step 2: In the Winter Expansion 2009 we are considering discontinuing support for ShaderModel 2 and make the minimum specification ShaderModel 3(GeForce 6 class cards or ATi x1300 or compatible)
This is more if a problem. ShaderModel 3 cards are generally PCIe cards, so not the easy upgrade as the AGP ShaderModel 2 cards. Anyone that falls under the specs will need to upgrade graphics card, motherboard, CPU, RAM, etc. While most people are feeling the economic pinch, that's quite a bit to spend. Please at least consider leaving step 2 a bit longer. Perhaps until Windows 7 is out?
Yeah, laptops are stuffed either way. |
Reatu Krentor
Minmatar Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:37:00 -
[115]
honestly this...
means no more crappy scythe model \o/ (omg is that classic model FUUUUUUGLY), now do something about the other weird ones chop chop (y'know like Moa, celestis, navitas...) |
SniperWo1f
Omega Enterprises 0mega Factor
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:40:00 -
[116]
Well im gonna put some quick points down and reserve this spot for later
i have a really good laptop that can run two premium clients no issues i however run classic graphics.
why because eve premium looks awful all the ships just look ugly and half finished compared to the classic versions . now premium is more detailed more flashy but it's dry and lacks personality . the ships pf eve classic are a real achievement considering the resources that were available to make them.
consider the rapier as a perfect example
the classic rapier has those two spinning flashlights and the flickering headlight . it's busy looking like it's alive and actually something that is working and running . the premium version is just dead pixels it has no personality no life. tbh if ccp implements this then you gotta allow players to paint their ships even if it only appears for their own ship and only to them . |
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente The Industrial Consortium
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:41:00 -
[117]
It is only anecdotal on my part, but I would seriously suggest that your estimate/guess that you will only lose 3-5% of your player base come December if you go through with this is erroneous. This coming year will not be condusive to most people upgrading systems, or even cards in some cases. |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:42:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Morgan La'Chance DO NOT DISCONTINUE SUPPORT OF SM 2.0 LATER
Just when we get acceptable large fleet battles due to less server lag, you're gonna make them into slideshows?
While I can agree on not discontinue SM2 so soon. I must say that your logic is failed. Pixel shaders are procedures executed per pixel on the screen. Its completely irrelevant how many ships are on the screen the shaders will be processed for each pixel having 400 ships in grid only only you looking at your ship pretty close.
I tend to think SM2 should be kept to at least MID 2010 |
Xodd Hil
Gallente Anunnaku The Wrong Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:43:00 -
[119]
Well, let's start:
Although I would be unable to play EVE on my tabletPC, I would still be OK with dropping SM1. But, dropping SM2 would mean that I can't play with my laptop, which has an Ati 9700, SM2.0. The only way I would be OK with that is:
-implementing long (say, 1 week or more) skill training list -eg. browser-only implementation of character, market interaction, and anything else not requiring docking out.
Unless those are not implemented, I'm very much against this idea of dropping SM2.0. Upgrading a laptop is not a 60$ expense, especially one that is sufficiently capable for this "premium lite", during these financially troubling times or later. Yes, my desktop has an up-to-date VGA, 4850, but I won't carry THAT around. |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:45:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Too Quacky Well luckily I can go on with Eve but alas a few friends of mine will not be able to use this lite client.
What is going on here is that Zulupark bought a bit bag of discounted nails from the hardware store before he started at CCP and he is doing his damndest to drive them all into the coffin.
Never forget the carrier nerf!
What about his epic 'answer any question you ask' thread. Is that in or out?
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