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Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
467
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 17:46:00 -
[301] - Quote
WE DONT WANT YOU UNLESS U CAN FLY t2 fit DRAKE OK?
I have more space likes than you.-á |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
493
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 17:49:00 -
[302] - Quote
That would be even better with some of those programs open |
Mocram
Inventores Lda.
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 17:59:00 -
[303] - Quote
Not every ppl want a game where there are so manny rules like:
1st - Don't fly what you can't afford to loose; 2nd - Don't play drunk; 3rd - Don't play after your head has hit the KB for more then 3 times; 4th - Don't play with too much wife/kids agro; .. .. .. .. Fill the gaps .. .. .. 34th - Trust Noone; 35th - Fit accordingly; ..
Etc... |
Jame Jarl Retief
Corps Diplomatique Terrestrienne
32
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 18:00:00 -
[304] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
Translation:
The problem is that most people don't understand how the skill system works in EVE.
He's not wrong, you know.
An older character can do more things, and better, than a new character.
Sure you could potentially max out a frigate class ship, all its weapons and systems and all skills that can affect it and "catch up" to an older character. By which point the older character already maxed out the bigger ship, and is spanking you with it. Example: Frigate vs Destroyer. So you train again, and max out destroyers. By which time the older character maxed out cruisers and is once again spanking you.
And even if, after years of training, you finally are able to fly most ships and use most weapons the same way the older character can, you'll realize that by then that older character can manufacture, trade, lead a fleet and do a whole lot more other things far better than you can, maintaining his edge because he can simply afford more expensive stuff to throw at you than you can.
Bottom line, the SP system in EVE is flawed at the core. A character you make today will not be competitive with a character that's 5 years old. It's just not going to happen. Within a limited scope (only frigate vs frigate, for example), yes you can sort of catch up. But in a broad scope encompassing the game in its entirety, you never will. That's what separates EVE from other MMOs, where you can create a brand new character today, and after a few months of work you would be on a 100% equal footing with a character 5 years old, the only difference will be in individual player skill.
What kills me, in ironic kind of way, is how the old hands who benefit the most from this arrangement fight the idea of revising the SP system that would make the game a little more even. So terrified of losing their SP edge it's actually quite comical. What is it that terrifies you guys so much? That you would actually have to depend on your personal skills more than character skills? |
Bane Necran
318
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 18:04:00 -
[305] - Quote
Mocram wrote:Not every ppl want a game where there are so manny rules like:
2nd - Don't play drunk;
Whoever told you that, is a liar.
The odds are pretty good at least 1 out of every 5 people you meet in game is drunk. In some corps it's par for the course. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Corps Diplomatique Terrestrienne
32
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 18:04:00 -
[306] - Quote
I would argue that a lot of stuff in the "sandbox" area would be obsolete if EVE had a decent UI. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
848
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 18:07:00 -
[307] - Quote
AureoBroker wrote:Invictra Atreides wrote:Ppl leave because the first 2 weeks are too complicated.
How many of you are using Linux instead of Windows? And why is that? Compatibility. Dumb friends wanting to use Skype. Which does not support, under any condition, way or shape, decent conferences. In general, proprietary software own existance.
Think you answered why you're running Win instead of *Nix.
Nice thing though is that a computer is a tool.
I have a *nix box sitting in the corner over there, running VPN, wireless auth, FTP, web site (in theory), sql db, media centre backend, and probably about 30 other "wonder if I can get this working" projects.
Have a Win laptop for gaming, because I CBA to upgrade the *nix box after they went SSE2 for EVE...
anyway, to get on topic --> EVE is highly successful, in the "fun" aspect (excepting when you lose everything and have to start over). "Number of subscribers" might mean something to someone somewhere ... but honestly, if a game isn't fun ... what's the point? |
baltec1
1111
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 18:19:00 -
[308] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:
Translation:
The problem is that most people don't understand how the skill system works in EVE.
He's not wrong, you know. An older character can do more things, and better, than a new character. Sure you could potentially max out a frigate class ship, all its weapons and systems and all skills that can affect it and "catch up" to an older character. By which point the older character already maxed out the bigger ship, and is spanking you with it. Example: Frigate vs Destroyer. So you train again, and max out destroyers. By which time the older character maxed out cruisers and is once again spanking you. And even if, after years of training, you finally are able to fly most ships and use most weapons the same way the older character can, you'll realize that by then that older character can manufacture, trade, lead a fleet and do a whole lot more other things far better than you can, maintaining his edge because he can simply afford more expensive stuff to throw at you than you can. Bottom line, the SP system in EVE is flawed at the core. A character you make today will not be competitive with a character that's 5 years old. It's just not going to happen. Within a limited scope (only frigate vs frigate, for example), yes you can sort of catch up. But in a broad scope encompassing the game in its entirety, you never will. That's what separates EVE from other MMOs, where you can create a brand new character today, and after a few months of work you would be on a 100% equal footing with a character 5 years old, the only difference will be in individual player skill. What kills me, in ironic kind of way, is how the old hands who benefit the most from this arrangement fight the idea of revising the SP system that would make the game a little more even. So terrified of losing their SP edge it's actually quite comical. What is it that terrifies you guys so much? That you would actually have to depend on your personal skills more than character skills?
the older player having 5% better stats in something does not atomatically win at anything. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
838
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 18:25:00 -
[309] - Quote
In the last decade Dan Brown has sold far more novels than George Orwell.
Does this mean that Dan Brown is the better author? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
493
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 18:26:00 -
[310] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:
Translation:
The problem is that most people don't understand how the skill system works in EVE.
He's not wrong, you know. An older character can do more things, and better, than a new character. Sure you could potentially max out a frigate class ship, all its weapons and systems and all skills that can affect it and "catch up" to an older character. By which point the older character already maxed out the bigger ship, and is spanking you with it. Example: Frigate vs Destroyer. So you train again, and max out destroyers. By which time the older character maxed out cruisers and is once again spanking you.
Ok, now I understand why all the other players are flying titans. Poor me, I can never catch them :(
|
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Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
68
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 18:39:00 -
[311] - Quote
This is a player, but I read the Devblog on the Drone mineral nerf and it captures their attitude completely:
Quote:Your first 5 words pointed out your NIMBY-douchbaggery. The rest of your words confirmed it.
I'm glad you have come to the realisation that the game developers are here to make the game better, not to cater to your childish whining. Or at least i'm happy you understand the last part.
I hope your monocle was a gift.
Well, the Null Alliances and Devs have me right where they want me, whatever shall I do? They can do whatever ******** thing they want and I can't stop them.
I'm canceling all subscriptions one week into the removal of content that is the Drone Mineral Nerf.
You see, I don't have to "Shut up and Mine" if I don't want to.
The Devs having the attitude of Corporate Overlords without the gun to back it up is one of Eves biggest problems. |
baltec1
1111
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 18:46:00 -
[312] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Well, the Null Alliances and Devs have me right where they want me, whatever shall I do? They can do whatever ******** thing they want and I can't stop them.
I'm canceling all subscriptions one week into the removal of content that is the Drone Mineral Nerf.
You see, I don't have to "Shut up and Mine" if I don't want to.
The Devs having the attitude of Corporate Overlords without the gun to back it up is one of Eves biggest problems.
You shall be replaced by countless miners. Your loss is not going to keep us awake at night. |
Welsige
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 18:47:00 -
[313] - Quote
Roime wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:
Translation:
The problem is that most people don't understand how the skill system works in EVE.
He's not wrong, you know. An older character can do more things, and better, than a new character. Sure you could potentially max out a frigate class ship, all its weapons and systems and all skills that can affect it and "catch up" to an older character. By which point the older character already maxed out the bigger ship, and is spanking you with it. Example: Frigate vs Destroyer. So you train again, and max out destroyers. By which time the older character maxed out cruisers and is once again spanking you. Ok, now I understand why all the other players are flying titans. Poor me, I can never catch them :(
Question is, while in other games you are required to max out to be competitive, in EVe it dosent hold per-se.
EVE is less about 1 vs 1, and more about group figth. But even in a 1 vs 1, hardly the combat will envolve a Titan ( lol ).
So once you max out frigates, you will be pretty capable to pvp.
The most anyone really needs is BS.
Why on earth one would want a titan anyway. Sure they are useful, but its far more fun to have a toon you can fly around than one you have to leave logged out holding this ship that can not park anywhere....
The game, in the sense of really playing it, going out, roaming and all, take place in BS and bellow.
Other things are purelly strategical or elite-pve. ~ 10.058 ~
Free The Mittani |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
493
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 18:50:00 -
[314] - Quote
Welsige wrote:
The game, in the sense of really playing it, going out, roaming and all, take place in BS and bellow.
No you don't understand! By the time I'm in a battleship, the older player is in a dreadnought and will whoop my butt!
|
Welsige
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 18:51:00 -
[315] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:In the last decade Dan Brown has sold far more novels than George Orwell.
Does this mean that Dan Brown is the better author?
True. Popular isnt equal to better.
Wow is the best example of this. ~ 10.058 ~
Free The Mittani |
Welsige
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 19:02:00 -
[316] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:valerydarcy wrote:Malcanis wrote:Riddick Liddell wrote:I'm dragging a Dark Blood Seeker behind my ship, aligned to a station. It's been like this for 23 minutes and counting.
Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time. Your salvaging attempt failed this time.
I can't imagine why people wouldn't want to do that day in, day out for 6 months untill they get thier SP up. If you're not enjoying it, you don't have to do it. Train salvaging lvl2? Apparently he doesn't enjoy doing that.
Lol, I would take "queue this skill 5 times" than spam salvaging to get the skill up, as it is on every other mmo and give me tendinite. ~ 10.058 ~
Free The Mittani |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
68
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 19:06:00 -
[317] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Well, the Null Alliances and Devs have me right where they want me, whatever shall I do? They can do whatever ******** thing they want and I can't stop them.
I'm canceling all subscriptions one week into the removal of content that is the Drone Mineral Nerf.
You see, I don't have to "Shut up and Mine" if I don't want to.
The Devs having the attitude of Corporate Overlords without the gun to back it up is one of Eves biggest problems.
You shall be replaced by countless miners. Your loss is not going to keep us awake at night.
That attitude exactly. That is what I mean.
Oh sure, claiming "People are going to come to Eve to MINE!" is not even insane. Cause no way do you believe that. No way even drooling insane madmen believe that.
You wanna know what? CCP might go bankrupt cause they understand nothing about the "market" at all.
They have a niche SPACESHIP game for OLDER PLAYERS.
They then decide to develop TWO games at once. BAD IDEA. It'd be funny in a freshman business class project.
The Dust "Run Forest Run!" is a First Person Shooter targeted at young people. They changed demographics AND game type. Oh boy.
And you know what they are going up against? Halo. Call of Duty in it's various incarnations. They are going up against the first team(s) in an area where they have no prior experience.
Call of Duty:"Are you a god?"
Dust CCP Developers:"I know quite a bit about virtual economies without market orders."
Call of Duty:"HA HA HA ! THEN DIE!"
That's kinda how it is going to go down.
The only thing CCP has going for it is that the idiot head of Activision tried to wildly cheat the Infinity Ward people so they left.
Golden Goose is dead. But the zombie corpse is probably to much for CCP to handle. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong White-Lotus
539
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 19:13:00 -
[318] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Matrix Operator wrote:I don't get it. The most beautiful graphics in the industry, a great storyline with great lore, and the lure of space, and Eve only gets 300k subscribers even after 10 tens of work. Some company makes an MMOPG with dancing Elves and ponies and it peaks at 9mil subscribers...
It can't be that wizard/fantasy is more popular than space-sci-fi. Aren't Star Wars and Star Trek proof that space-fiction has the larger following (as opposed to say, Lord of the Rings). And if so, why would 9mil players play with Elves, but only 1/30th of that choose sexy spacegraphics.
I don't get it. Can someone explain it to me? Because the actual gameplay itself (point-and-click to move) isn't all that much fun. It's slow, frustrating and unintuitive. Pretty much everything about EVE is great except the way you have to do things in it.
But whenever CCP try to change things to make it the same game but easier to do things, hardcore players whine that having a backwards scanning system from 10 years ago somehow makes the game better/more complex.
Like star craft players that say only being able to select 12 units at a time was a feature. And now sc2 is dumbed down because you can move 200 units at once *rolls eyes* |
Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate EVE Animal Control
166
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 19:15:00 -
[319] - Quote
St Mio wrote:Because the masses a) want instant gratification and b) are creatively inept and incapable of building sandcastles.
QFT. Also, most people don't have the mental abilities to really get their head around EVE. It may come as a surprise after reading these forums for any length of time, but I'd be willing to bet that on average the EVE player base is more intelligent/mature/educated than that of other MMO's.
/me expects to get flamed by WOW/SWTOR fanboi's. I stand by my statement. I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |
Welsige
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 19:18:00 -
[320] - Quote
Roime wrote:Welsige wrote:
The game, in the sense of really playing it, going out, roaming and all, take place in BS and bellow.
No you don't understand! By the time I'm in a battleship, the older player is in a dreadnought and will whoop my butt!
Question is, why in the hell would you be alone in a BS... ~ 10.058 ~
Free The Mittani |
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Roime
Shiva Furnace
493
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 19:23:00 -
[321] - Quote
Because you need to kill a Golem with two sleeper battleships and a Drake on field and all your corpies are offline
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Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
795
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 19:29:00 -
[322] - Quote
D Program wrote:Most people are puppets, they need a caretaker to show them where to go and what to do.
You just described most null alliances.
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Welsige
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 19:32:00 -
[323] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Malcanis wrote:Matrix Operator wrote:I don't get it. The most beautiful graphics in the industry, a great storyline with great lore, and the lure of space, and Eve only gets 300k subscribers even after 10 tens of work. Some company makes an MMOPG with dancing Elves and ponies and it peaks at 9mil subscribers...
It can't be that wizard/fantasy is more popular than space-sci-fi. Aren't Star Wars and Star Trek proof that space-fiction has the larger following (as opposed to say, Lord of the Rings). And if so, why would 9mil players play with Elves, but only 1/30th of that choose sexy spacegraphics.
I don't get it. Can someone explain it to me? Because the actual gameplay itself (point-and-click to move) isn't all that much fun. It's slow, frustrating and unintuitive. Pretty much everything about EVE is great except the way you have to do things in it. But whenever CCP try to change things to make it the same game but easier to do things, hardcore players whine that having a backwards scanning system from 10 years ago somehow makes the game better/more complex. Like star craft players that say only being able to select 12 units at a time was a feature. And now sc2 is dumbed down because you can move 200 units at once *rolls eyes*
I think thats the wrong view about how things exist in EVe.
Like scaning.
Its not "old". It is quite simple, really.
But to get to the point where it becomes simple, it demands skilling of course, but also personal skill. Its not just launch probes, scan, site found, done.
Part of the fun in exploration is that it really is exploration. Its not a given. you gave to look for the sites, put personal skill in it.
Its really a diferential.
If i wanted to know where every damn "raid" was, I would be playing another game, repeating the same old content day in and day out..... ~ 10.058 ~
Free The Mittani |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
795
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 19:35:00 -
[324] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:It may come as a surprise after reading these forums for any length of time, but I'd be willing to bet that on average the EVE player base is more intelligent/mature/educated than that of other MMO's.
I was unaware there was another version of EVE-Online out there. How does one start an account with the sever that has all the intelligent, mature and educated players?
|
baltec1
1112
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 19:38:00 -
[325] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
That attitude exactly. That is what I mean.
Oh sure, claiming "People are going to come to Eve to MINE!" is not even insane. Cause no way do you believe that. No way even drooling insane madmen believe that.
You wanna know what? CCP might go bankrupt cause they understand nothing about the "market" at all.
They have a niche SPACESHIP game for OLDER PLAYERS.
They then decide to develop TWO games at once. BAD IDEA. It'd be funny in a freshman business class project.
The Dust "Run Forest Run!" is a First Person Shooter targeted at young people. They changed demographics AND game type. Oh boy.
And you know what they are going up against? Halo. Call of Duty in it's various incarnations. They are going up against the first team(s) in an area where they have no prior experience.
Call of Duty:"Are you a god?"
Dust CCP Developers:"I know quite a bit about virtual economies without market orders."
Call of Duty:"HA HA HA ! THEN DIE!"
That's kinda how it is going to go down.
The only thing CCP has going for it is that the idiot head of Activision tried to wildly cheat the Infinity Ward people so they left.
Golden Goose is dead. But the zombie corpse is probably to much for CCP to handle.
Thats quite a rant about how a boost to mining is destroying your game. |
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
169
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 19:46:00 -
[326] - Quote
EveOnline: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. You must be cautious!
Nothing clever at this time. |
Welsige
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 19:52:00 -
[327] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Welsige wrote:Rodj Blake wrote:In the last decade Dan Brown has sold far more novels than George Orwell.
Does this mean that Dan Brown is the better author? True. Popular isnt equal to better. Wow is the best example of this. I hear Stephanie Meyer's sells well too...
Glitter vampires who dont bite girls errday
~ 10.058 ~
Free The Mittani |
Welsige
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 19:54:00 -
[328] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Rath Kelbore wrote:It may come as a surprise after reading these forums for any length of time, but I'd be willing to bet that on average the EVE player base is more intelligent/mature/educated than that of other MMO's. I was unaware there was another version of EVE-Online out there. How does one start an account with the sever that has all the intelligent, mature and educated players?
Only the cool kids get invited.
Send me 1 billion and i will send you a access key.
;) ~ 10.058 ~
Free The Mittani |
Jame Jarl Retief
Corps Diplomatique Terrestrienne
32
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 20:10:00 -
[329] - Quote
Welsige wrote: Question is, while in other games you are required to max out to be competitive, in EVe it dosent hold per-se
EVE is less about 1 vs 1, and more about group figth. But even in a 1 vs 1, hardly the combat will envolve a Titan ( lol )
So once you max out frigates, you will be pretty capable to pvp.
Perfectly true, but to a degree. First, it's not about just combat. A level 1 can trade just as well as a level 80 in most other MMOs. Not so in EVE. All facets of the game are affected by SP. Someone with more SP will produce quicker, research faster, scan quicker, trade easier, kill faster, etc. You folks can dance around this as much as you want, but it is a self-evident fact. Older characters can do more things, and better. Increased effectiveness coupled with versatility. A new character simply cannot compete. And while 5% in one area won't win you the fight, 5% in twenty areas will virtually guarantee it. A new guy just can't compete, not until years down the line, where you start getting into somewhat esoteric skills that not everyone needs.
Yes, you could max a frigate and fight another frigate and be on equal footing. This breaks down as soon as the older character sees you in a frigate, and comes back in a destroyer. And so on. And while perhaps titan is a bit much, there's T2 and T3 versions of ships already, and nobody likes to be looking at a few years of training before truly being competitive in a perfectly even 1v1 scenario.
And while I agree that in the grand scheme of things it's not such a big deal, as you are much more likely to encounter a 5v1 than a 1v1 in this game. But I guarantee you this is something every new player thinks about. And for many people, as soon as this realization sets in, it is an immediate deal breaker. And while I fully admit at some point there's a theoretical point where a newer character will catch up and be identical to an old one, I believe it takes something like 20 years worth of training to get to that point. So for most players, the working assumption is that you will always be playing with a handicap against older players. Which makes the system flawed at the core.
What makes it all worse is that the old hands, who claim the advantage is really minimal or even nonexistent will fight tooth and nail to preserve that advantage. Which is what makes the whole situation so comical. People claim that it's really not a big deal, and then come at you frothing at the mouth as soon as you suggest that if it's no big deal, it wouldn't be too bad to normalize things a little to make the field a little more even for newcomers. If advantage is as minimal as you claim it to be, what are you so worried about? |
Welsige
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 20:27:00 -
[330] - Quote
I believe i started the game about a year or more ago. I never felt myself gimped.
Even flying a T1 frigate.
Part of the game is recognizing what you can and what is too much to you to do at a given time, and focus on what you can do.
In the end, why would I want all those 20 years skills? Really, I dont want them. I dont want to have a clone that is extremelly expensive.
And as sure as hell, i dont want a Titan.
About equal playfield, there must be a diferential between old and new players, and that holds true to all games - there must be somekind of progression.
The equalizing factor comes into play within fleets, where diferent roles balance players. As time goes, you start to accumulate specializations and roles you can perform, instead of being locked up in 1 role.
Of course, if one want to be a trader mogul, a elite pvp, etc, all at once and right from starting the game, that may be dispointing, but then one should not have such expectations in any game.
I do think there should be somekind or learning boosts, that would give an added % to learning that could drop somewhere within eve. But, even being relativelly new, i dont want to gat all handed to me. ~ 10.058 ~
Free The Mittani |
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