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Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
783
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Posted - 2012.04.17 08:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
What i suggest is the following
- The hard timer of 24 hours is removed.
- A meter that has a cap of 24 light years replaces it.
- The meter recharges at a rate of 1 light year every 1 hour.
With this in place a player can jump clone to any clone that is within the light years of their current position as long as they have enough in the Jump Clone Gas Tank to cover the range. There would be a minimum of 1 hour used when cloning.
With this setup all kinds of play styles could be used from this. Everything from a decent form of power projection (no where close to what it is no - anywhere no matter how far away you are) to a centralized location. In theory one could stage all the clones so they do a mix of traveling and cloning to travel very far. All the way to keeping all the clones in one station/system to change clones on the fly many times depending on the situation.
Sounds a bit over powered doesn't it? If you think about it, not really. When I first tell someone about this idea they go on about how it is OP because it means they can just swap back and forth between their snakes and slave sets and all kinds of stuff in a short period to go pew pew. Then I mention how much ISK in implants they just risked in that short amount of time. Billions and billions of ISK laid out on the line where normally, they would have only risked one of those during a 24 hour period.
This system can also be adjusted via balance. Maybe a 24 light year cap is too much or too little. Maybe adding a skill to increase the cap, but I would be afraid it would be yet another skill you would need to max out to stay remotely competitive. Then again, if you like to keep all the clones in one central area, training up that skill would not be such a requirement. Perhaps the security status of space you are in affects how fast/slow the meter fills? That would making living in low/null sec more appealing than say high sec.
What are the pros and cons of this guys?
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Torothanax
6
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Posted - 2012.04.17 08:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's worth discussing. I've always favored a 20 hour jump clone restriction, but maybe a more flexible limit would be more useful to more people. I like options, as long as they aren't jacking up the game.
Most of the clone jumping I do is for pvp / non-pvp implants. When I play often, I'm in my pvp clone. when I get low on isk and have to go grind or when I take a break from the game I go non pvp. But I wouldn't argue with being able to swap more then once in a 24 hour period. Then again, I'm ok with the 24 hour thing as well. Still I think 12-20 hours is probably the shortest anyone should ever be able to swap clones. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
145
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Posted - 2012.04.17 09:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
I am also a supporter of the 20hour jump clone. I dont use my clone much, but I can see where the 24h has its problems for someone who plays at a regular time each day.
Saying that, I am interested in Marlona's idea. With a range from one longrange jump across the Eve galaxy each 24hours to multiple jumps in a localized area, the possibilities to improving jumpclone usage for different playstyles is great.
I would really like to see this discussed by the community and CCP.
Have a space-internet 'like', great idea.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
236
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Posted - 2012.04.17 09:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'd get behind this. It allows JCs to be used efficiently for multiple purposes, I dig. |
Corteztk
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
0
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
I put some thought into this in the past myself but I propose a different idea. Make jump cloning cost isk. That way if you want to be OP you need to pay for it. First jump every 24 hours (or 20 hours if you can convince CCP) would be free. Second would be 20 million isk or some other reasonable amount of money. Third, would be 200 million making it possible to do three in 24 hrs but really expensive and the fourth and any jump clones after that could be 500 million or a billion whatever CCP wants to set as a maximum cost.
Basically, everyone gets one jump a day. Second jump isn't that expensive but expensive enough you won't do it for no reason. Any jump after that would basically have to be for emergency purposes only because the cost would be highly prohibitive.
That was the idea I had in the past and CCP would probably enjoy it for the isk sink possibilities. No sure what others would think of this.
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Sentient Blade
Walk It Off Imperial Ascension
313
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Such fees are unreasonably high.
The main people want to jump clone is to get *into* a fight without sacrificing the only thing which means anything at all in EvE - skill training time. Learning implants, if anything, give an advantage to older, more experienced players, who can afford to explode a set of +3s or +4s if they don't want to stick around in a particular area for 24 hours. |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
789
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
If you start to add an ISK cost to clone jumping, that will be another reason for them not to hit that undock button. Remember the idea is to add versatility and to remove that barrier so they will actually undock. This chance will result in more PvP. Thus, more ships dying. Now who would not like that?
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Trygonus
Never After
8
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Posted - 2012.04.17 16:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
This sounds dynamic and useful. I would love to have this change. |
Corteztk
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
0
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Posted - 2012.04.17 16:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
The key is the isk cost starts at 0 for the first jump and escalates. It's no more restrictive than the current system but allows those willing to pay the cost more versatility. If your not willing to pay then you continue with the current system. I don't see why this wouldn't be an effective change. The story line to it is easy also. You just make some bull up about how you have to pay a doctor to stabilize you for the next jump.
CCP will never agree to allow more jump clones without some sort of cost. There are reasons for jump clones being as restrictive as they are right now. This system keeps it somewhat restricted so that people aren't just jump cloning randomly around the galaxy but at the same time if they NEED to jump clone they can do it. |
Stigman Zuwadza
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
7
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Posted - 2012.04.17 16:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sounds like a great idea.
What if there was a combination of both the single jump (current 24 hr timer) and the system of multiple jumps with the distance limitation.
The 24 hr jump could be utilized for very long jumps, thus requiring you to rest for the 24 hrs to recover. An example would be your jump from highsec carebaring into null/lowsec for some pew-pewing. Then once you were in null/lowsec you could readily change between your pve / pvp clones with reasonable speed.
And vise versa you could jump to highsec using your 24 hr jump and then change between your pve / indy / pvp clones.
I would hate to think that those with hideous jump distances had to use all their clones to form a chain to get where they needed to go ...if it was based solely on jumping distance.
Have a good one. o7 |
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Corteztk
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
0
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Posted - 2012.04.17 17:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'm not against the idea of being able to do short jumps to change implants but I believe that CCP is intentionally not allowing this. They want people to have to risk their fancy implants sometimes. That is why I think the isk cost makes sense because it satisfies CCP and makes it so they might actually use this idea.
Think about this, you are sitting in highsec and need to jump clone to null. You jump into your full slave set clone then you FC calls the fleet off. Someone calls out nano roam and you want to do this but wait your in a full slave set clone. Hmmmmm do I spend 20 million isk for a second JC of the day, do I risk my 2 billion isk of implants, or do i not go on the roam.
I think that is a good set of choices for any player to have without letting people jump clone around between implants five times a day which CCP doesn't want. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
274
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Posted - 2012.04.17 20:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Corteztk wrote:I'm not against the idea of being able to do short jumps to change implants but I believe that CCP is intentionally not allowing this. They want people to have to risk their fancy implants sometimes. That is why I think the isk cost makes sense because it satisfies CCP and makes it so they might actually use this idea.
Think about this, you are sitting in highsec and need to jump clone to null. You jump into your full slave set clone then you FC calls the fleet off. Someone calls out nano roam and you want to do this but wait your in a full slave set clone. Hmmmmm do I spend 20 million isk for a second JC of the day, do I risk my 2 billion isk of implants, or do i not go on the roam.
I think that is a good set of choices for any player to have without letting people jump clone around between implants five times a day which CCP doesn't want.
^^ This is a good idea....
Being able to switch clones (even if only locally), ever hour is NOT!!!!
There should be an inconvinience associated with high-impact implants...
Finally, I really do like the 20 ly cap... its a very short distance for the EvE universe, and would make JC'ing between Highsec and much of Nullsec obsolete... |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
792
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Posted - 2012.04.17 21:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Corteztk wrote:I'm not against the idea of being able to do short jumps to change implants but I believe that CCP is intentionally not allowing this. They want people to have to risk their fancy implants sometimes. That is why I think the isk cost makes sense because it satisfies CCP and makes it so they might actually use this idea.
Think about this, you are sitting in highsec and need to jump clone to null. You jump into your full slave set clone then you FC calls the fleet off. Someone calls out nano roam and you want to do this but wait your in a full slave set clone. Hmmmmm do I spend 20 million isk for a second JC of the day, do I risk my 2 billion isk of implants, or do i not go on the roam.
I think that is a good set of choices for any player to have without letting people jump clone around between implants five times a day which CCP doesn't want. ^^ This is a good idea.... Being able to switch clones (even if only locally), ever hour is NOT!!!! There should be an inconvinience associated with high-impact implants... Finally, I really do like the 20 ly cap... its a very short distance for the EvE universe, and would make JC'ing between Highsec and much of Nullsec obsolete...
I was very clear that certain things like the 1 hour minimum used is subject to balancing. I don't agree with a cost to jump clone. What he suggests does not scale well and again, would set players up for not hitting the undock button. You want me to pay how much on a possibility of pvp?? No thanks. There is already an over the top pvp isk sink slap to the face that is called clone upgrade costs. How many layers of pvp discouragement are you wanting in this game??
If you insist a cost scaling mechanic for jump clones is the way to go, please start your own thread instead.
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ATTAKowl
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
5
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Posted - 2012.04.18 03:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
This idea has my approval. It would definitely give my gameplay style more options. And Im all about more options when its possible.
The light year distance limit might make some zerospace market pimps cry, but otherwise I dont see what else could make this a bad idea. I dont disagree with the other idea that Cortez hijacked this thread with either. I could support either one or a hybrid of both. Also, I think such a change would indirectly make NPC owned space much more desirable to live in.
Having some more skillbooks to plug in that are related to JC cooldown and distance and number of times per 24 hour period sounds beneficial to CCP too. I think this would make everyone happy.
The current jump clone system blows and should be changed! |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
146
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Posted - 2012.04.18 08:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
I dont agree with adding an ISK charge. This just allows those with more ISK to have another advantage in game. While some people may say that they earnt the ISK so they should have an advantage, well thats like your opinion man! I think the distance'v'time thing works well, its balanced, it encorages people who use JCs a fair bit to think about how they manage their jumps and it brings some versatility to JC playstyles.
Currently we can jump the entire length of the Eve galaxy once every 24h. I wouldnt want this to change. The max distance jump should still be the max distance, then more jumps per 24 hours should be scaled down (the distances would need to be discussed to balance them)
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Corteztk
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
1
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Posted - 2012.04.18 15:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Wow don't be a child, you started a thread about how you would like jump clones to work and I responded with my idea. If you don't like it fine but don't put your idea up for discussion and then get mad at me for countering it with my own idea.
Having isk in this game will always give people advantages, this is a game about the free market and buying and selling destructible assets. That being said I understand a certain amount of people don't like the money part of my idea. You are missing the other part of my post though. I don't believe that CCP would ever institute your idea because it has no draw backs to rapidly switching between implant sets. CCP from what I can tell wants to force people into playing in the wrong implant set from time to time. They do not want you to have three stations right next to each other and be able to jump from Slaves, to Crystals, to Snakes all in the same day.
Again feel free to disagree with me but my point here is that I don't believe CCP will ever consider your idea without it having some sort of drawback that would make people think twice about rapidly switching between implant sets. That is why I prefer isk but if you have an alternative drawback I would love to hear it. Also, if you disagree that CCP wants to discourage this behaviour I'm open to hearing that also but that is the way I see it. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
126
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Posted - 2012.04.18 15:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alright, since I don't have alts, I have to regularily make use of the jump clone system. If I am in a cap, I have a set of implants I am willing to risk to maximize it. If I am running a different style of ship, different implants. If I am going into a T1 bc fleet, well I want my cheap clone. Lastly I have a clone set up for running exploration. Sometimes I will jump, and then be needed for a cta, well is fun telling the guys I cannot make it because I am out in an entirely different region than where the fleet is staging. I would more than be willing to isk sink to get back.
I am for isk for earlier jumps (1m per hour remaining say?) but am against the distance one. It penalizes people who use them to get around, especially when on the borders of null and it is +40 jumps to where I need to get. |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
795
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 16:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Corteztk wrote:I don't believe that CCP would ever institute your idea because it has no draw backs to rapidly switching between implant sets.
The more you switch, the distance you can jump clone shrinks. Like I said earlier, perhaps increasing the minimum used for the jump clone on the jump range would be the way to go, say instead of a 1 hour minimum burned, it would be two. That of course is part of the balancing process.
Corteztk wrote:CCP from what I can tell wants to force people into playing in the wrong implant set from time to time.
The problem is that people simply don't bother doing that. If they are in an expensive clone and the op calls for them to be in cheap clones due to a high probability they will be podded, the player will simply not attend the op. So they are risking nothing. You may think that they are going to risk that high grade snake set on a T1 Rifter roam, but they wont. With my change at least they will be risking something instead of nothing.
Corteztk wrote:They do not want you to have three stations right next to each other and be able to jump from Slaves, to Crystals, to Snakes all in the same day.
See you think that is terrible. I think if someone wants to risk what is that almost 10 billion ISK in implants for me to blow up all in one day, then by all means, let them do it. Even if the pod gets away they are risking far more in ships, thus, more pew pew action. More ships blowing up.
Corteztk wrote:Again feel free to disagree with me but my point here is that I don't believe CCP will ever consider your idea without it having some sort of drawback that would make people think twice about rapidly switching between implant sets.
The draw back is by doing it rapidly you will rapidly decrease the size of your jump range to those clones. Thus you are nerfing the hell out of your power projection as far as jump clones goes.
Corteztk wrote:That is why I prefer isk but if you have an alternative drawback I would love to hear it. Also, if you disagree that CCP wants to discourage this behaviour I'm open to hearing that also but that is the way I see it.
The problem with your ISK for jump clone idea, like I mentioned before, is it caters to the rich and for the average player it would be another road block in front of the undock button. Right now they will be risking their ship, implants (if they have any fit) and a clone upgrade cost if they are podded. Your idea is to tack on a 3rd or 4th level of ISK cost. It is just like charging a player to change into a different ship or to change fittings.
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Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
795
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Posted - 2012.04.18 16:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:Alright, since I don't have alts, I have to regularily make use of the jump clone system. If I am in a cap, I have a set of implants I am willing to risk to maximize it. If I am running a different style of ship, different implants. If I am going into a T1 bc fleet, well I want my cheap clone. Lastly I have a clone set up for running exploration. Sometimes I will jump, and then be needed for a cta, well is fun telling the guys I cannot make it because I am out in an entirely different region than where the fleet is staging. I would more than be willing to isk sink to get back.
I am for isk for earlier jumps (1m per hour remaining say?) but am against the distance one. It penalizes people who use them to get around, especially when on the borders of null and it is +40 jumps to where I need to get.
So your talking about power projection. My system offers a bit of power projection, but no where near what you feel they should be. My suggestion would be to explore closer to home. Or if you jump clone away from your home to look for targets, then maybe you need to reset some blues so you don't have to be 40+ jumps away.
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Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
818
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Posted - 2012.04.25 02:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Any more thoughts/comments on this idea?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
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Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
23
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Posted - 2012.04.25 03:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
I have a small comment to this really great idea..
Combining the "relativity theory" inspired light year idea with a time delay..
So your basically jumping light years directly using ingame ranges. The further away you are from the clone your jumping to the longer the delay. If your within 5 light years, its instant, and 5 - 10 its 5 minutes before arrival or some appropriate number..
This might also be reduced say by implants, boosters, facility grades etc. Thus you would get the mentioned isk sink, but in a more indirect and non harmful way..
20 light years +1 for each skill level if we considered adding a new skill.? |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
818
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Posted - 2012.04.25 04:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
Caleb Ayrania wrote:I have a small comment to this really great idea..
Combining the "relativity theory" inspired light year idea with a time delay..
So your basically jumping light years directly using ingame ranges. The further away you are from the clone your jumping to the longer the delay. If your within 5 light years, its instant, and 5 - 10 its 5 minutes before arrival or some appropriate number..
This might also be reduced say by implants, boosters, facility grades etc. Thus you would get the mentioned isk sink, but in a more indirect and non harmful way..
20 light years +1 for each skill level if we considered adding a new skill.?
That sounds very similar to the power projection we have now, but with a price tag and time delay. I really do not like the current power projection we have now. Which is anywhere with a station (and in some cases clone vat bay).
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
343
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 11:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Here's an idea: you can install jumpclones remotely, but when you use them it destroys your current clone and implants.
THAT is how it is supposed to work according to the EVE lore
THAT is how it is supposed to work to balance out the abuse of jumpclones to cheat on the consequences of choices
THAT is how it is supposed to work if the EVE galaxy is to be huge place instead of everyone hopping all over the place Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Corteztk
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
1
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Posted - 2012.04.26 20:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Big problem with the idea of destroying your current clone and implants. It means that just because you fly a capital with slaves you can't do rifter fleets unless your willing to risk 2 billion in implants which most people aren't.
That would encourage people to play the game less not to mention having less fun. At the end of the day this is a game and we are supposed to have fun. There needs to be a way to switch out implant sets. If there was a way that wasn't jump clones I would be interested in that myself. |
Thomas Kreshant
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2012.05.06 10:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
It would be exploited.
You have 4 clones, 2 with implants and 2 without, Jump into cheap clone, set medical bay to destination, pod kill yourself, jump from cheap clone to expensive clone at the destination using the much quicker timers. |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
891
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 10:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:It would be exploited.
You have 4 clones, 2 with implants and 2 without, Jump into cheap clone, set medical bay to destination, pod kill yourself, jump from cheap clone to expensive clone at the destination using the much quicker timers.
That part of setting clone destination and such things can be changed. So if that part you described as being exploited was fixed per say, what are your thoughts then?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
219
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Posted - 2012.05.06 11:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
change JC delay to 1 week. JC shouldnt be for regular use. |
Im Super Gay
Hedion University Amarr Empire
50
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Posted - 2012.05.06 13:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
If there's someone that has a jump clone more than 24 ly away, they couldn't jump to it. I'm not a fan of reducing functionality after a change. The main concern about lower jc timers is that a corp/alliance could set up a forward base on the other side of the galaxy. So I propose that the jump clone cool down timer increases similar to locater agents. if your jump clone is in...
Same system: 1 hour Same constellation: 2 hours Same region: 6 hours Other region: 24 hours
So the system works the same as it is today if your clone is in another region, but you get greatly reduced cool down timers within the same region. Of course the number values can be tweeked all day long. |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
891
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 19:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Im Super Gay wrote:If there's someone that has a jump clone more than 24 ly away, they couldn't jump to it. I'm not a fan of reducing functionality after a change. The main concern about lower jc timers is that a corp/alliance could set up a forward base on the other side of the galaxy. So I propose that the jump clone cool down timer increases similar to locater agents. if your jump clone is in...
Same system: 1 hour Same constellation: 2 hours Same region: 6 hours Other region: 24 hours
So the system works the same as it is today if your clone is in another region, but you get greatly reduced cool down timers within the same region. Of course the number values can be tweeked all day long.
One of the functions of this change is to reduce the insane power projection we currently have with jump clones. Instantly jumping from one edge of the galaxy to the exact opposite is a huge issue. That functionality as you call it is broken.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
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