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Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C. Dark Phoenix Rising.
145
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Posted - 2012.04.17 09:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Jita is great and all but let's increase something on the OTHER side of the FW line. Sometimes, the best thing to do is have a random moment of compassion. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
199
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Posted - 2012.04.17 09:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
in a free market a new tradehub will show up automatically when and where needed |
Kreeia Dgore
EntroPrelatial Industria EntroPraetorian Aegis
7
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Posted - 2012.04.17 10:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Another trade hub? Why? There are several major hubs doing their job pretty well. |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
9
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Posted - 2012.04.17 10:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
A bit more specific and some data would be needed to motivate a group seeding and hub building.
Generally some statistics on populations, types and densities etc..
There are most likely plenty of oppertune markets out there..
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Liberty Eternal
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
51
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Posted - 2012.04.17 10:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
You can have the bots. Just tell us where to send them. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
108
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Posted - 2012.04.17 11:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Liberty Eternal wrote:You can have the bots. Just tell us where to send them.
Send them to the drone regions. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
581
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Just picking between Oursulaert and Dodixie would help. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Kalipoli
State War Academy Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
So why hasnt someone undertaken the the task of filling all items (or close to all items) at all stations everywhere.
It would be a serious undertaking but imagine how the game might change if everything you needed was in the system with you.
i dont think it would be for the better of eve but it sure would be a cool endeavor. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
70
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Posted - 2012.04.17 16:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kalipoli wrote:So why hasnt someone undertaken the the task of filling all items (or close to all items) at all stations everywhere.
It would be a serious undertaking but imagine how the game might change if everything you needed was in the system with you.
i dont think it would be for the better of eve but it sure would be a cool endeavor. inb4 Caleb
(actually in after Caleb. but his above post doesn't count - it's merely foreplay) |
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions Twilight Military Industrial Complex Alliance
18
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Posted - 2012.04.17 17:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Would be interesting. What you'd need is an area with good agents and good mining, I'd think. LP earned near Jita aren't worth a whole lot and I doubt the minerals are optimal either. I don't know how important ratting is, but good rats won't hurt. Having a location near player-occupied nullsec would allow you to be their highsec destination.
Once you find that, place appropriate buy and sell orders and advertise the hell out of the area. Have massive quantities of freighters running between the system and the other trade hubs.
If a suitable location could be found, I think this could be done... Expensive experiment, however, to get it started. |
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Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
11
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Posted - 2012.04.17 17:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Since the joke is already hinted at..
Tycoon V and all skills maxed, still cant be done, not enough orders available per character, and NO I dont want to play the alt game..
Calling Torfi & Soundwave.. can haz my 3000+ orders on single characters back PLOX? |
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions Twilight Military Industrial Complex Alliance
18
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Posted - 2012.04.17 20:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
I would think this to be more a corp-sized venture than a solo one. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
155
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Posted - 2012.04.17 21:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Amarr is looking to become a bigger trade Hub if Dr E's predictions of more & more peeps are moving into Amarr space because of crowding. I'm curious if Jita's burning might be the initial push Amarr needs to truely come near to over taking Jita? Dodixie is dieing it seems to me... dunno about Rens & HEK's prices & location sucks To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1226
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Posted - 2012.04.17 22:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Amarr is looking to become a bigger trade Hub if Dr E's predictions of more & more peeps are moving into Amarr space because of crowding.
You didn't read the report properly. There are more people in Amarr space because there is more Amarr space. The hisec Amarr regions are Domain, Genesis, Kador, Tash-Murkon, and Khanid Kingdom (I'm sure I left something out). The hisec Minmatar regions are Metropolis & Heimatar. The hisec Gallente regions are Sinq Liaison, Everyshore, Essence, Verge Vendor. That's not including the hisec islands such as Solitude.
So simply from the number of regions available, you'd expect Amarr space to have more people in it assuming that hisec was equally crowded everywhere. Of course one thing you will see as space gets more crowded is more people actively running missions in Zorrabed and Gulfondi.
That being said, if Burn Jita lasts more than a week I would expect another nearby system (such as Perimeter) will take over temporarily if Amarr doesn't take over as the major hub. After all, Amarr is already a hub, and it's just as easily accessible to people in Minmatar and Gallente space as Jita is, and is already stocked pretty well in comparison to Jita.
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Ch3244
Azule Dragoons Sspectre
81
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Posted - 2012.04.18 01:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Amarr is looking to become a bigger trade Hub if Dr E's predictions of more & more peeps are moving into Amarr space because of crowding. I'm curious if Jita's burning might be the initial push Amarr needs to truely come near to over taking Jita? Dodixie is dieing it seems to me... dunno about Rens & HEK's prices & location sucks Hek is 100x better that dodixie.
Don't do business in Rens |
Dr Silkworth
Two Geezers in Space
18
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Posted - 2012.04.18 03:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Minmatar needs to annex some gallente space. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
872
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Posted - 2012.04.18 03:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ch3244 wrote: Hek is 100x better that dodixie.
Don't do business in Rens
Hek is tiny. It's more of a mission running hub then a trade hub.
Based on total sell order value:
http://eve-marketdata.com/reports.php?step=Station
2117B - The Forge - Jita 521B - Domain - Amarr 320B - Sinq Laison - Dodixie 351B - Heimatar - Rens 201B - Metropolis - Hek 165B - Tash-Murkon - Tash-Murkon Prime 76B - Essence - Oursulaert (Villore is 48B) 61B - The Citadel - Motsu 58B - Khanid - Agil 53B - Lonetrek - Sobaseki
(and I'd love to see someone figure out total transaction volume / amounts per day - which would be far more accurate as a measure of what the top 10 trade hubs are) |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
119
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Posted - 2012.04.18 03:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Try to make a low or null sec "tradehub" and it will experience the "Camped-ganked-dried out and died" combo. |
papamike
Precipice Industries
22
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Posted - 2012.04.18 06:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:Try to make a low or null sec "tradehub" and it will experience the "Camped-ganked-dried out and died" combo.
I heard people say this when I started toying with the idea of Precipice Industries. While im still a way off before declaring the venture a success, the above statement is misleading and false.
It can be done, at a profit provided one does the research into the area and the needs basis off it. Its a harder slog then simply setting up shop in an existing hub, and you have to deal with all the problems of a trade hub along with all the problems of low/null sec.
TL:DR Its not impossible but its alot harder to do individually and with enough financial backing to be profitable. Most people put it in the too hard basket so it doesnt end up working out.
The people that COULD make it work on an individual level (ie, by investing vast resources into the area) dont want to bother with it as they already have established interests. However, its actually a viable and achievable target for a collective of mid-ranged corporations or individual traders, provided they could actually work together and not cut into each others established markets.
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kakarifar
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.04.18 08:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Amarr = more systems = more chance of incursions = more red crosses = more people = more demand
I am so good at maths you would not believe :) |
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Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro In Vitro.
326
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Posted - 2012.04.18 09:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Liberty Eternal wrote:You can have the bots. Just tell us where to send them.
//command prep_travel_mode //command read_dest_from_thread Help rid New Eden of T2 BPOs:-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62797 The Full Pocket Aggro blog:-á http://fullpocketaggro.blogspot.com/ Now showing: The incursion situation |
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
165
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Posted - 2012.04.18 16:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lauren Hellfury wrote:Liberty Eternal wrote:You can have the bots. Just tell us where to send them. //command prep_travel_mode //command read_dest_from_thread
I just woke up in Cat with an indy full of meta4 mods and a blinding headache. What happened? |
Alain Kinsella
102
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Posted - 2012.04.18 21:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:The hisec Amarr regions are Domain, Genesis, Kador, Tash-Murkon, and Khanid Kingdom (I'm sure I left something out).
Ammatar Mandate, aka Derelik.
Berta is the closest the region has to a hub, due to it being the HS gateway to Curse. Sendaya would be its Low counterpart (arguably). Most of the rest of the region struggles due to Rens being so close, and are primarily mission hubs anyway.
I may have come here from Myst Online, but that does not make me any less bloodthirsty than the average Eve player.
Just more subtle.
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Beliandra
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.04.19 06:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:(and I'd love to see someone figure out total transaction volume / amounts per day - which would be far more accurate as a measure of what the top 10 trade hubs are) Is it possible to obtain that info on a station-by-station or system-by-system basis?
Or would you have to go region-by-region and basically assume that e.g. Forge vs. Domain is roughly proportional to Jita vs. Amarr? Which is probably fair enough, Amarr seems to have more than 80% of the sell order value of the Domain region, and Jita more than 90% of The Forge.
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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
881
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Posted - 2012.04.19 13:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Beliandra wrote: Or would you have to go region-by-region and basically assume that e.g. Forge vs. Domain is roughly proportional to Jita vs. Amarr? Which is probably fair enough, Amarr seems to have more than 80% of the sell order value of the Domain region, and Jita more than 90% of The Forge.
The market history graph / data is only available on a regional basis.
It would provide a way to cross-check the "sell total" numbers. Is Jita really that big? Is Amarr really that small? Is there some other region which moves a lot of product ISK per day? |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
165
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Posted - 2012.04.19 15:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Just picking between Oursulaert and Dodixie would help. LOL, just picking ONE station in Oursulaert would help. Same with Stacmon, Villore, and every other Gallente regional hub.
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
160
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Posted - 2012.04.19 17:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Amarr is looking to become a bigger trade Hub if Dr E's predictions of more & more peeps are moving into Amarr space because of crowding. You didn't read the report properly. There are more people in Amarr space because there is more Amarr space.
Umm yes I did & its what I meant. Amarr proper (the system) would be the HUB best situated for all Amarr space so far unless people start congealing around some other mission HUBs say closer to Ohide? To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Trollin
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.04.20 18:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kalipoli wrote:So why hasnt someone undertaken the the task of filling all items (or close to all items) at all stations everywhere.
It would be a serious undertaking but imagine how the game might change if everything you needed was in the system with you.
i dont think it would be for the better of eve but it sure would be a cool endeavor.
its mental because with max skills each character can manage only ~300 orders, it would take you literally dozens of accounts per station to handle the orders, and you would commit suicide after running just a few accounts as full time station traders especially in a theoretical/non-existant hub, that has very little volume.
basically it doesnt happen because its not a good idea under the current machanics, switch it to unlimited orders and let us write algo's to trade instead of manual management and it might happen, but thats ccp's ball not mine |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
219
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Posted - 2012.04.20 19:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
This is how Hex became a trade Hub, it was decided in here to make it one. |
qDoctor Strangelove
Beware of the Red Fox
8
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Posted - 2012.04.20 20:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
I hear VFK is a rather OK hub. |
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Lord Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.04.21 12:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:Try to make a low or null sec "tradehub" and it will experience the "Camped-ganked-dried out and died" combo. I'm making an alt that can fly T2 industrials and I was thinking about using the cloaky one to do exactly what you're talking about. If not at one central location then at several. Having lived in low sec I know that it's hard to find what you want to buy and even when you do it's usually badly overpriced. Or at least that's how it was when I lived there. There's probably profit to be made by hauling things there to sell instead of Jita or whatever. |
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
173
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Posted - 2012.04.21 14:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
The sheer volume required to get a hub self-sustaining would require whole fleets of blockade runners. The only way I can see anyone manufacturing a true low-sec trade hub would be to have a large corp, if not alliance, dedicated to keeping the system gank-free. Basically one large player-run NRDS Concord. Otherwise there would simply be too many opportunities to gank. It would be kind of cool though, have a player-policed pirate haven. |
Nylith Empyreal
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
96
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Posted - 2012.04.21 15:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
I too had hoped to create sort of a pirate jita. I had hoped to use a decent system along a lowsec pipeline next to a highsec island to produce mass quantities next store and hull it to the pipeline system deep in lowsec. I think leaving it lawless would work just fine, I wouldn't bother with trying to hull mass quanitites of something out however unless it's protected etc. I dunno, I've skills to complete before trying such endeavor.
Otherwise... we could like... band together, I'm glad I'm not the only one with crazy ideas. -á |
MushroomMushroom
Consolidated Sprocket
30
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Posted - 2012.04.21 17:23:00 -
[34] - Quote
Covops transports to 0.0 - The amount of freight required to support even a moderate 0.0 trade hub makes covops transports a ludicrous proposition. They can supply small niche demands, but any serious logistics would only be feasible with Jump Freighters.
Lowsec Tradehub - Unrealistic, lowsec populations are too dispersed and traveling to a hub would be too dangerous. Also pirates generally have their own personal/corp logistics already.
Creating a new highsec hub - The problem is that hubs are a self perpetuating loop. A hub has lots of buyers/sellers, buyers & sellers attract traders, traders compete with each other reducing price spreads, low price spreads attract buyers/sellers, repeat. When creating a new hub there is less competition, and so more spread creating profit margin for traders, but those bad prices will cause buyers/sellers to seek out the existing market hubs. What you would need is a bunch of traders willing to take very small profits for months for the purpose of establishing the new hub, and creating the critical mass necessary to make it a self perpetuating hub. |
Nylith Empyreal
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
96
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Posted - 2012.04.21 19:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
If it fails it fails, I understand the daunting odds against it, but I'd like to say I tried it. Sometimes you got to touch fire to know it burns. -á |
Aileen Morex
Morex Group Inc. The Babylon Consortium
3
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Posted - 2012.04.22 06:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dr Silkworth wrote:Minmatar needs to annex some gallente space.
Minmatar needs to annex Amarr space since they probably stole it from them in the first place.
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papamike
Precipice Industries
22
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Posted - 2012.04.22 14:59:00 -
[37] - Quote
Nylith Empyreal wrote:If it fails it fails, I understand the daunting odds against it, but I'd like to say I tried it. Sometimes you got to touch fire to know it burns.
Forget about the nay sayers, Ive been trying to do exactly what you propose. Ive sort of put the idea on the shelf and reduced my original vision from 'creating a low sec market hub' to simply 'seeding a low sec system for profit'. The only reason ive done this is because as it was pointed out, its alot of work. Regardless, for the particular system in question I can probably boast supplying single handedly 80% of its t2 module sales and around 40% of its ammo sales.
I did have plans to scale up manufacture of ships in system, and start listing buy orders for minerals to encourage localised sales at competitive price points and margins that would see profit if I was to on sell to Jita but unfortunately I have a life outside of Eve and it was simply too big of a bite to take.
Its certainly do-able for a co-op of traders, but the 'how to' is eluding me, and ive sort of gone away from the idea. The current mechanics of a corporation doesnt really make sense for it, perhaps an alliance would though, where marketteers could enter the alliance for standings and possibly protection via pvp orientated corps within the alliance, whilst paying some sort of royalty system.
Like I said, its sort of beyond my personal capability to do something like this single handedly, but Id love to hear from other investors and small to medium sized traders who could be interested in setting something like this up.
EDIT: I should note that the test system I chose to see if this was a viable business plan was actually a fairly quiet system in the grand scheme of things but it had a few things going for it in terms of its location and geo-political situation. The test run ran for 3 months and although I dont have exact figures (because I cant seem to get EMMA to work nor find a 3rd party program that can calculate NAV/ time) I can say that it was certainly profitable and I saw alot of population growth and market turn over once the local residents realised that the system had been seeded with pretty much everything they needed for daily pew pew. Id imagine the growth will increase even more when I can get the capital to start seeding ships as well. |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
140
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Posted - 2012.04.22 23:22:00 -
[38] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Just picking between Oursulaert and Dodixie would help.
Oursulaert is the better choice. It tends to have all the right sorts of stations and is close to Nullsec. Dodixie is just a mission hub. It's sort of like the system the epic arc starts in, (Arnon), as far as that is concerned. It does open the way to a few other areas but from all appearances Oursulaert is the better locale. The only problem there is the price and availability, which could easily be fixed.
The alternative is moving the Trade Hub to another location which may well be in Amarr or other territories. I'm sure there is a better location than either of those however, but it also needs to have plenty of manufacturing lines and some R&D. Oursulaert already has that, even if the locaion is not exactly ideal. Dodixie is somewhat lacking and being a mission hub doesn't help when you consider the increase to trade traffic it may well see.
I'm up for the idea though. Anyone willing to select a location and begin working on developing a new trade hub, feel free to. It might even get me interested in playing the game again, rather than just training SP. Something I wanted to do early on, but limited interest got in the way. There are not a lot of people that want this, or even want to see space opened up by trade and more areas made less remote and more feasible for players to move into or stay around.
Personally, I'd go with Minmatar Space and focus on moving towards the Molden Heath region with a focus on The Great Wildlands and other areas of Nullsec beyond that. Turn WiS into wIN! ..make all the characters Nude. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
885
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Posted - 2012.04.23 13:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
I've never understood the draw of Oursulaert. The only region that it borders is Genesis and it's 2 jumps away from Sinq.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Genesis/Ourapheh - Genesis region - Verge Vendor, Sinq Laison and Essence are all next-door. - Next door to the old Yulai - Has an amazing amount of connections.
Even Renyn (next to Oursulaert) would seem to be a better location the Oursulaert.
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Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C. Dark Phoenix Rising.
148
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Posted - 2012.04.23 16:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
Why isn't the central hub in the CONCORD Assembly? I mean people love to be care bars and all that fun stuff right? I'm pretty sure having your freighter murderified in Jita is only fun so many times. So, why isn't it in the assembly? It's practically smack dab in the middle of the 4 empires. Sometimes, the best thing to do is have a random moment of compassion. |
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illy velo
Production N Destruction INC. The Last Chancers.
2
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Posted - 2012.04.23 16:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:I've never understood the draw of Oursulaert. The only region that it borders is Genesis and it's 2 jumps away from Sinq. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Genesis/Ourapheh- Genesis region - Verge Vendor, Sinq Laison and Essence are all next-door. - Next door to the old Yulai - Has an amazing amount of connections. Even Renyn (next to Oursulaert) would seem to be a better location the Oursulaert.
I keep all of my spare combat ships in Renyn as it always seems to be closest to any WH exit I may jump out of. It is right on the Sinq Laison on ramp. |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
19
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Posted - 2012.04.23 16:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
Well a bit of good news for this idea..
With the new highlight own order feature and ofc Burn Jita and the likes, there are a good chance that many traders will start looking for new ponds to fish in..
Also the feature makes it easy mode, so maybe an influx of new market people on the horizon to..
Alas it does not resolve the underlying problem with lack of orders and contracts. We need some improvement to the current system, its old and not good for game play, imho.
I have suggested some sort of research agent oriented system, using vouchers as a consumable, and thus improving that as a trade good. Maybe the simplest way would be to remove the item Reports from npc and make them player generated, and a consumable on issue of new orders and contracts. Ideally there could be small npc seeds at scc and banking agents stations..
Another good thing for markets would be to take the main trade areas atm, and swap one station out for an scc station. Make the scc standing derivative of all distribution agents, on all factions. Thus you not shooting stuff will get you scc standing.
Then again if I am not mistaken nothing will happen along these lines. Market is not important enough for it to get priority. So hopeful as I am, its just dreams..
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Akki Zeta
Novel Creations The Kage Syndicate
0
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Posted - 2012.04.23 17:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:I've never understood the draw of Oursulaert. The only region that it borders is Genesis and it's 2 jumps away from Sinq. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Genesis/Ourapheh- Genesis region - Verge Vendor, Sinq Laison and Essence are all next-door. - Next door to the old Yulai - Has an amazing amount of connections. Even Renyn (next to Oursulaert) would seem to be a better location the Oursulaert. In that little cluster, it's the system that's got the most stations, factories and cheap offices?
/shrugs. |
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