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Sevarus James
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.01.14 13:39:00 -
[1]
The silence in this forum from the devs, as well as the announcement for JUST the MAC, I think is saying more than volumes about what CCP is doing now regarding what has become a laughable "official linux support" statement by them.
As they have excluded Linux from ANY of the recent announcements, we have to assume at this point that we are being "abandon-wared".
The fact that wine works so well and so much better than the offically supported stab at a client, as well as a fair amount of hostility from this section toward Cedega/Transgaming from a "philosophical" standpoint may have gotten linux support binned, imho.
I'm only guessing, but we haven't had a single post from a DEV in here in many many months, while there have been regular updates from Cascade in the Mac section. My request in the development section for any info dropped promptly off the face of the earth, (read: page 5 somewhere at this point), while at the same time devs were replying to other threads in that section with frequency and gusto, so my thinking is that CCP and TG are going to deal with the MAC OS, AND as we as FOSS supporters/users have been basically from the start...will be left to our own devices and the wonderful folks of Crossover as well as the wine community to keep us playing this amazing game.
I've been here since 2003, and have had the opportunity to watch this virtual community grow and prosper over the years, but at this point, it feels like we (Linux Eve Players) are just not really considered a part of things outside of the "internal world of the game itself" by CCP.
What was said at Fanfest by the devs is NOT what we have in reality, and I find that more than a little irritating and frustrating.
But the beauty of OUR community is that it doesn't really fracking matter. We've been playing EVE FAR FAR longer than CCP has "supported" us, and unless they pull a really idiotic move program wise with the client, I'm betting we'll still be down here helping each other KEEP playing in the VR world we love.
Updated Ubuntu Compiz-Linux Desktop+EVE Premium |
Pivalak
Ultriach Criesther Evirementari
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Posted - 2009.01.14 13:55:00 -
[2]
Amen.
Let's hope that the new development path to be adopted in the next months for the EVE Online client doesn't break compatibility with Wine at some point, though.
In any case, the way devs are "ignoring" any question or topic about Linux makes me feel uneasy. If they are going to stop supporting Linux in March 10th, it would be better to acknowledge it as soon as possible instead of leaving us in the dark.
I guess their current position is to maintain silence until completely sure about their statements, not to promise or say anything they won't later be able to maintain, as in the past. But that doesn't make things any better, given that Linux is supposedly an officially supported platform right now. |
armas
Gallente Minbari Research Institute
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Posted - 2009.01.14 15:32:00 -
[3]
RAmen
Tbh I don't believe Transgaming/CCP have the technical ability to improve the "official" Linux client to the point that I would have abandoned using Wine anyway.
I don't really care that they ignore us anymore, the thing that annoys me is that they continue to advertise Linux support as they do, which is a half-truth at best.
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farfrael
Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2009.01.14 19:31:00 -
[4]
Amen
what is really distasteful is CCP's way of doing with the situation and their blatant duplicity
CCP, if you are going to drop your official linux support ****ING SAY IT ! Just being silent and hoping the "problem" will go away isn't going to work.
I am getting seriously worried by all the talks about dropping support for "old" technology.
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Sevarus James
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 02:55:00 -
[5]
Originally by: farfrael
I am getting seriously worried by all the talks about dropping support for "old" technology.
TBH this part bothers me the least as I keep up to date with my hardware to at least a level that allows me to enjoy the latest software offerings. --AMD dual core + sli motherboard, nvidia 8800gts (dx10 capable), etc.
If CCP is streamlining their client code to simplify their coding procedures, I don't see any real issues with the official client + wine as they are firmly on directx 9.
EVEN if they decide to move to dx10, I'm not sussed, as wine/crossover devs have already indicated that support for that is not "rocket science" and in fact have some base support for it in the current version of wine.
My irritation is that CCP claims and ADVERTISES on their website to support LINUX, but in reality they do not. Perhaps not enough for someone to sue for false advertising, but in so much as they aren't doing more than lip service at this point. (And with the recent MAC beta info, not even lip service.)
I no longer hold my breath waiting for developer response in this section, or tbh any other forum section of EVE-Online. Because of this utter silence, I no longer feel any need to even TRY to assist with the official client in here as it is, in its current state, a pile of steaming rubbish, and CCP/TG as much as acknowledged this at Fanfest.
Updated Ubuntu Compiz-Linux Desktop+EVE Premium |
M1AU
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.15 11:12:00 -
[6]
I reactivated my account 2 days ago with that offering of 5 free days of playing, just to show how the current Linux situation looks like. Well it looks even worse than a few month ago!
If they seriously think this state of a Linux client can be called "official supported", than they're simply wrong.
At least I took the only reasonable consequence and already canceled my subscription again.
-M1AU |
Syekuda
Caldari Titanium Guard
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Posted - 2009.01.15 12:12:00 -
[7]
With that devblog I hope they can give more "love" to linux and more time of course. For example, my problem with Eve on my machine is that I can't get it to work with either Gentoo or even Ubuntu because it looks like from my understanding that ati x1600 is not supported. So, who to blame, ati or CCP ? I personally believe both are to blame here cause in 1 hand, they won't do anything to get it to work a bit better and in the other, they wont talk to the other to get it to work so...
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2009.01.15 15:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Syekuda With that devblog I hope they can give more "love" to linux and more time of course. For example, my problem with Eve on my machine is that I can't get it to work with either Gentoo or even Ubuntu because it looks like from my understanding that ati x1600 is not supported. So, who to blame, ati or CCP ? I personally believe both are to blame here cause in 1 hand, they won't do anything to get it to work a bit better and in the other, they wont talk to the other to get it to work so...
don't try official linux client and ATI. latest fglrx should work with wine+windows client (even premium). --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
SniperWo1f
Omega Enterprises 0mega Factor
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Posted - 2009.01.15 23:26:00 -
[9]
just finishing installing ubuntu 8.10 now and iv'e got to say i like it so far im still d/l updates and getting graphics displays and thing sorted . hopefully i should have the eve client running tomorow then i can join you guys properly |
Katrina Bekers
Gallente Hikage Corporation G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2009.01.16 12:01:00 -
[10]
Amen Sev.
In a way, it's even relieving when "we" realize that we're back to business as usual in linux land. I.e. community mutual support without expecting anything from anyone else.
I guess we fared well enough without official support, and we will continue to do so. WINE development goes ahead full steam, and every release there's a shower of fixes, which often involve our nifty little online game.
The bitter taste left by "official support" being pompously touted and effectively absent is indeed unsettling. But I'm confident we're able to work around PR fluff like we work around freeze-on-focus-restore bugs and unstable drivers. --- Kate [ Recruitment | HKG | G0DS ] |
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Squably
Minmatar Invenio Inceptum
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Posted - 2009.01.19 12:39:00 -
[11]
they should have picked crossover and not transgaming to make a client. Or hell even ask Ryan C. Gordon to make a nice port. Signature removed. Please do not imply profanity in your signature. Navigator
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Sevarus James
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.01.20 02:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Squably they should have picked crossover and not transgaming to make a client. Or hell even ask Ryan C. Gordon to make a nice port.
The most irritating part of that is...they DID ask Crossover. At the time, crossover could not dedicate enough resources to guarantee what CCP required for updates and patches, and refused the offer. Transgaming DID sign on the dotted line, and what we've ended up with them is a half baked P.O.S. client with TG focusing 99% of their efforts on the MAC/Cider stuff.
In TG's defense, I will say that the cider engine is probably their focus as it is a much wider "net" that they can cast across multiple game companies to generate FAR FAR more revenue than focusing on the cedega engine regardless of the PR blather about how cider makes linux better....which if true, we would have had a LINUX/MAC announcement for March rather than the obvious "MAC only" slap in the face that we ended up with.
The problem with an independent port is that the client is a moving target from patch to patch and fix to fix, and a port would have to be maintained through these updates in order to be effective. The only way a port would work would be to have accountability, and an individual (though awesome) isn't the same as having a corporate entity sign an agreement. The only other way a port would work is if CCP had the head count to hire OpenGL programmers to keep the versions "meshed", and somehow I'm doubting it at this point.
Updated Ubuntu Compiz-Linux Desktop+EVE Premium |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:15:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sevarus James
Originally by: Squably they should have picked crossover and not transgaming to make a client. Or hell even ask Ryan C. Gordon to make a nice port.
The most irritating part of that is...they DID ask Crossover. At the time, crossover could not dedicate enough resources to guarantee what CCP required for updates and patches, and refused the offer. Transgaming DID sign on the dotted line, and what we've ended up with them is a half baked P.O.S. client with TG focusing 99% of their efforts on the MAC/Cider stuff.
In TG's defense, I will say that the cider engine is probably their focus as it is a much wider "net" that they can cast across multiple game companies to generate FAR FAR more revenue than focusing on the cedega engine regardless of the PR blather about how cider makes linux better....which if true, we would have had a LINUX/MAC announcement for March rather than the obvious "MAC only" slap in the face that we ended up with.
The problem with an independent port is that the client is a moving target from patch to patch and fix to fix, and a port would have to be maintained through these updates in order to be effective. The only way a port would work would be to have accountability, and an individual (though awesome) isn't the same as having a corporate entity sign an agreement. The only other way a port would work is if CCP had the head count to hire OpenGL programmers to keep the versions "meshed", and somehow I'm doubting it at this point.
well a native port would not make that much work to maintain, however it would make lot's of headaches to complete initialy.
I went through the quake 2 source once for inspiration and it was quite a thing. the basics is to make a wrapper for the underlying graphics engine (different opengl implementation in case of quake) so that your main engine always calls the same functions and the wrapper takes care of the correct routing ...
this would need to be done for network, keyboard, sound, graphics ... basicaly you'd have to link DirectX and f.e. SDL (or OpenXX) libraries for equivalent functions. This would also limit future development, as you'd need to look at both sides in case you want a new feature ... both of them need to support it. |
Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:30:00 -
[14]
I'd just like to add my support for the OP...
And stress that what annoys me beyond reason (yeah, i should just be enjoying the game in its current state instead of complaining here ;) ), is the difference between CCP contents and CCP PR. I know it's common in the software business to sell stuff you don't have, but yeah.
And finally, CCP should stop pyramid scheming features/promises. CCP have had a brilliant pyramid scheme going for a while now in which they make promises only to replace them by making new promises. I'd love to see them "commit" to what they "commit" to sometime instead. Anyway, just my couple cents of whine... now, back to wine! |
Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.21 01:24:00 -
[15]
I haven't tried the "official" client in a while (months) but from what I gather here the situation doesn't seem to be changed in so far as the windows EVE + wine works better across the board. And that's been the situation all the time.
IMHO the the best solution is to discontinue the official client. Then push deb/rpm packages into the Ubuntu/RH/suse repos and pay bounties to get specific EVE related bugs fixed. Packages (pulling the needed support packages) would take care of most of the "EULA doesn't show" etc... threads here.
I don't see Cedega catching up with wine anymore.
And wine is great - the few small issues left are trivial and don't bother me much. And for whatever they paid Cedega for the Linux client wrapper we could have a number of EVE specific issues fixed via bounties or whatever sponsorhip. |
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