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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.18 14:36:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana walmart sells M rated games...what are you guys talking about?
Walmart also often demands edits be made to games and albums they sell as well, which is why I don't buy games or music there.
--- My opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of my corp or alliance. |
Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.01.18 14:40:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
Originally by: Qordel
Originally by: Reathena I see that the sarcasm was lost on some. I just do not like my entertainment labeled like a pack of cigarettes. What's next? "WARNING: Immersion in fantasy world may be hazardous to your mental health" ??? Puhleeeze!
It's in the EULA - that should be enough - I don't want to see it every time I log in. point. My opinion. My desire. Only way to let CCP know about it is to cast my vote here.
Silly us. You asked a question that you already knew the answer to and we answered it, not knowing you knew the answer. Including some sort of emphasis may have helped us understand that you were wasting our time asking a rhetorical question.
Anyway, the ESRB is a bunch of **** suckers, but there's nothing we can do about it.
Also, they've been putting warnings on entertainment for twenty years now. Remember the whole Twisted Sister debacle with Tipper Gore?
That was the PMRC
Yes, the PMRC was behind finally forcing labels onto records. And...?
Oh, I see. I guess you thought "they've been putting warnings" was in reference to the ESRB doing that. No, that was a collective they as in all the frigid busy-bodies that put labels on stuff and want to keep everyone from anything they personally don't like. --
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Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.18 14:40:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
Originally by: Qordel
Originally by: Reathena I see that the sarcasm was lost on some. I just do not like my entertainment labeled like a pack of cigarettes. What's next? "WARNING: Immersion in fantasy world may be hazardous to your mental health" ??? Puhleeeze!
It's in the EULA - that should be enough - I don't want to see it every time I log in. point. My opinion. My desire. Only way to let CCP know about it is to cast my vote here.
Silly us. You asked a question that you already knew the answer to and we answered it, not knowing you knew the answer. Including some sort of emphasis may have helped us understand that you were wasting our time asking a rhetorical question.
Anyway, the ESRB is a bunch of **** suckers, but there's nothing we can do about it.
Also, they've been putting warnings on entertainment for twenty years now. Remember the whole Twisted Sister debacle with Tipper Gore?
That was the PMRC
The PMRC was Algore's crusade previous to his current "Goreacle of Global Warming" one.
And does anyone else see the irony of having to produce government ID to purchase: cigarettes, beer, and video games, but if it's suggested that one have to do the same before VOTING that is called racist or "nativist"?
--- My opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of my corp or alliance. |
Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.01.18 14:45:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: Nikita Alterana walmart sells M rated games...what are you guys talking about?
Walmart also often demands edits be made to games and albums they sell as well, which is why I don't buy games or music there.
Not just the content, but the covers as well. I don't know if it is still the case, but CDs used to be manufactured separately for walmart, so they could change the covers and sometimes even change the lyrics on the songs inside.
Also, just because a place sells something that is M rated doesn't mean much. Publishers often tone down the content of their game to meet a T rating just for a broader audience, the same way they'll often take a perfectly fine R movie and strip anything interesting out of it so it can be a PG or a PG13. Also, they do not carry AO titles. That is the problem with the ratings. They stigmatize content and put eveyrone into little categories so that a publisher has to pick and choose, rather than just making a good product and not being concious of "oh, but in this one country the age limit for a reading is XYZ and in this other country it's ABC".
Another thing to keep in mind is that with an international game like EVE, they will run into other problems. Each country has a different ratings system. For example, in America, there is T. That's 13-16. Then there's M. That's 17+. In other countries (Australia, I think?) the rating after teen is 15+. So how do you balance that with the American rating that lumps 15/16 into 13/14/15/16? Or what about the 12+ rating versus the 13+ rating in America?
You end up with the content being struck toward the lowest common denominator. If it's not good enough for 12 year old little johnny, it's not good enough for 35 year old John.
I'm not suggesting that any of this is CCP's doing. It's the **** they have to deal with for playing the entertainment business game and wanting to get their game on shelves. --
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Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.01.18 14:52:00 -
[65]
Oh - the other problem with a game like EVE is that it's a single game, internationally. That means that they truly do have to dumb it down to the lowest common denominator. For example, violence and certain references are frowned upon in places like Germany. That's why games for Germany and Australia are very often altered to meet the individual ratings boards in those countries. However, in America, violence is totally okay - you just don't want anyone seeing a naked body. Or part of a naked body. Or the suggestion of sex. Or drugs. But violence is totally okay. So how do you appease both when it's one single game and you can't just print off two versions of GTA for each country?
Well, you tone down everything. --
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Kravick Drasari
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Posted - 2009.01.18 15:03:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 18/01/2009 15:04:15
Originally by: Nikita Alterana walmart sells M rated games...what are you guys talking about?
If you're referring to Oblivion it was released in America with a T rating and the ESRB later changed it to an M because they got ****ing lazy and didn't actually play the game past getting out of the first dungeon.
GTA whatever number that was originally released with a T (LOL prostitution) and only changed it to M AFTER that big Hot Coffee debacle on ALL the GTA games despite the fact it was only viewable on the PC version for that one sequel (or was it on the original?) and only AFTER you patched it. Knee jerk reactions FTL. --- My cat Putter approves of this post. |
Astarte Nosferatu
Minmatar Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation
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Posted - 2009.01.18 15:08:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Kravick Drasari
GTA whatever number that was originally released with a T (LOL prostitution) and only changed it to M AFTER that big Hot Coffee debacle on ALL the GTA games despite the fact it was only viewable on the PC version for that one sequel (or was it on the original?) and only AFTER you patched it. Knee jerk reactions FTL.
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.
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Suboran
Gallente Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.01.18 15:11:00 -
[68]
can you make the print go away please. Its beggining to affect my online experience
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Silver Night
Caldari Naqam Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.01.18 15:12:00 -
[69]
Walmart didn't sell M rated games in 2003, when Eve came in a box the first time IIRC --------------
The Clown Man. GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter
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Eraza
Gallente Fuzzyness Enterprizes
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Posted - 2009.01.18 16:00:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Eraza on 18/01/2009 16:01:14 i'm afraid i must agree with the whining here, those esrb notices are annoying, especially in the center, and i'm sure i can safely say that not even my mother pays attention to those warnings anyway, all they do is make three old men who think kids will go insane from seeing a woman topless happy(i'm not kidding, i have seen a video of someone saying that), and annoys the rest of the world
and really, does this increase sales that much? personally i think that a game having a teen rating is a bad thing, and it usually makes me wonder if the game is censored in places that could dilute the gameplay.
on the other hand, when i see games with an M rating, and it's not about just killing people for no reason, or sex, then i think, "hey, someone had the balls to tell their story like they wanted and give those paranoid raitings people the finger!" and i know at least every single one of my friends thinks something similar
guess which game i'm going to buy on a whim, and which one i'll think about for a while longer, and then probably forget about? :) |
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Maria Kalista
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Posted - 2009.01.18 16:01:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Maria Kalista on 18/01/2009 16:01:05 I start thinking about the Empyrean age trailer. With the fully nude fleshy corpses floating in full glory in space. Even with nude boobies included.
Not that I have a Necrophilia tick but I sure hope that CCP is *not* being forced to tune things like that down because they're selling a few boxed versions. |
Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.01.18 16:01:00 -
[72]
Agreed with the above poster.
Also, EVE is a cold, harsh place... Only fit for those twelve years and older! |
Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.01.18 16:05:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Maria Kalista Edited by: Maria Kalista on 18/01/2009 16:01:05 I start thinking about the Empyrean age trailer. With the fully nude fleshy corpses floating in full glory in space. Even with nude boobies included.
Not that I have a Necrophilia tick but I sure hope that CCP is *not* being forced to tune things like that down because they're selling a few boxed versions.
The ratings wouldn't apply to promotion material, surely. But there is no way that content would make it in-game with that level of graphic detail. |
Elliot Reid
Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2009.01.18 16:08:00 -
[74]
Whether people agree with the rating system or not, and it's placement requirements, is totally moot since CCP HAVE to include it to sell in shops. Surely there are more imnportant things in EVE, and the world for that matter, to worry/complain about than a bit of text that most people ignore in the couple of seconds they are on the page it is on?
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Eraza
Gallente Fuzzyness Enterprizes
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Posted - 2009.01.18 16:10:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Qordel Well, you tone down everything.
and thus, make the game less enjoyable all around
anyone remember the robot version of carmageddon? or the zombie one?
how many actually didnt mind that one?
i know i for one, if i would have failed at finding the uncensored version, i would simply not have played it.
without people to kill carmageddon was just... YET another racing game.. |
Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.01.18 16:12:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Qordel on 18/01/2009 16:15:38 I thought the following would be interesting to note. A few things are confusing, though. For example, what the hell is "fantasy" violence? What the hell is a suggestive theme? Suggestive of what? Violence? Drugs? Sex? Religion? Atheism? Questioning authority? What?! Further, how can you have violence but minimal blood? Also, it's odd that any nudity at all is only appropriate for adults. Especially since until the late 1990s, there were states in America where the age of sexual consent was a shocking twelve or fourteen in. And how do you have sexual content at M but no nudity until AO? What the..?
EC == EARLY CHILDHOOD Titles rated EC (Early Childhood) have content that may be suitable for ages 3 and older. Contains no material that parents would find inappropriate.
E == EVERYONE Titles rated E (Everyone) have content that may be suitable for ages 6 and older. Titles in this category may contain minimal cartoon, fantasy or mild violence and/or infrequent use of mild language.
E10+ == EVERYONE 10+ Titles rated E10+ (Everyone 10 and older) have content that may be suitable for ages 10 and older. Titles in this category may contain more cartoon, fantasy or mild violence, mild language and/or minimal suggestive themes. T == TEEN Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.
M == MATURE Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.
AO == ADULTS ONLY Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity. |
Eraza
Gallente Fuzzyness Enterprizes
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Posted - 2009.01.18 16:12:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Eraza on 18/01/2009 16:15:41 Edited by: Eraza on 18/01/2009 16:13:34
Originally by: Elliot Reid Whether people agree with the rating system or not, and it's placement requirements, is totally moot since CCP HAVE to include it to sell in shops. Surely there are more imnportant things in EVE, and the world for that matter, to worry/complain about than a bit of text that most people ignore in the couple of seconds they are on the page it is on?
well, for me, it's not really about the rating being there,(although personally ESRB as a whole just annoys me) it's mostly about that i really hope they have the sence to not gimp the gameplay experience, or art, just to get a lower rating |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.01.18 16:17:00 -
[78]
Personally I would prefer that institutions like ESRB got closed down and the money went to better education measures.
Then maybe people could start thinking for themselves. |
wickedpheonix
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Posted - 2009.01.18 16:24:00 -
[79]
Edited by: wickedpheonix on 18/01/2009 16:25:01 Does EVE need an ESRB rating? Yeah - especially for retail distribution.
However IMHO it needs to re-aim for an M rating if the developers so believe in the consequential material. EVE doesn't cater to children in terms of it's gameplay style (spreadsheets FTW), and that's in very small part why EVE is great - no twelve-year-olds screaming on mics. However, I don't see how CCP would drop M-rated content into EVE right now and definitively make the experience better - i.e. changing corpses in space to nude models doesn't really do anything for the game. However, when Ambulation comes along, the introduction of proper gentleman clubs in the lower-class areas of space lends to the seedy nature of low-sec and would improve the atmosphere of the game; thus, aiming for an M-rating is OK.
BTW last time I checked, Walmart stocked Halo (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5515987), which means that Walmart DOES stock M-rated games - it's the AO games that retailers routinely shy away (something that needs to be changed - refusing to sell AO games based on their rating/content needs to get criminalized, fast, so long as retailers are still selling some other kind of adult content, be it ****ography/NC-17 movies or steamy romance novels).
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Yarik Mendel
Privateers
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Posted - 2009.01.18 16:36:00 -
[80]
I was very offended by the ESRB warning Why didn't CCP warn me about it with another warning message?
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Kayosoni
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.18 18:06:00 -
[81]
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Originally by: Shevar Nope says pegi 12+ for me.
That's probably because you are using a European version of WoW or connecting to a European server. No clue how Blizzard handles that. But as far as I know we do not have to display the PEGI rating, only the ESRB one.
L2 doesnt have the ESRB notice.. I've never seen one ever from l2, and they still don't have it, and they sell is stones :s |
Tuttomenui II
Gallente Byrds Research And Development
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Posted - 2009.01.18 19:01:00 -
[82]
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Google is such an amazing tool.
Lately Google hasnt been as reliable for me, I keep getting results that are tagged wrong or something and hav e a fake label so they turn up at the top of the results and lead to sites that try to get me to scan my computer using some POS spyware/malware fly by night scanner that reports fake results, and is really hard to uninstall. Good thing I only fall for crap like that once every couple years.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.01.18 20:25:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Reathena I don't want to see it every time I log in. Make it go away, please.
Hahaha.. Just noticed they increased the size of the font for the ESRB notice on the character select screen. Owned. |
Arvald
Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2009.01.18 20:41:00 -
[84]
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Originally by: Farrellus Cameron You should put it in small print at the bottom of the display, not in big annoying print at the top.
The guidelines we need to follow require the use of certain font sizes and placement. For instance putting it in the EULA is not enough. You need to see the warning before login of every single game session. Not complying with the regulations means fines and the risk of the certification being withdrawn and the subsequent recall from shelves by major retailers.
Computer Entertainment Retail Operations: Definitely not all fun and games.
thus proving once and for all that internet spaceships are sereous buisiness |
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2009.01.18 22:12:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Reathena ESRB?
It's there to help artificially inflate the forum database with whine.
Scared of the events forum? |
Dmian
Gallente Gallenterrorisme
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Posted - 2009.01.19 22:34:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Qordel Agreed. It's reasonable to want something that gives you a rough idea of what content is in something since you may want to buy something for a child and you don't want to have to sit down and play through it or watch the entire movie or listen to the entire CD. As long as it remains a GUIDELINE.
Unfortunately, in practice, it actually limits everyone. As i explained in my reply to Wrangler, these voluntary ratings for parents end up being implemented in an "you can not buy this because of your age" rule in the store. Even though there isn't any law requiring it.
And that would be okay, too, except that to be put on retail shelves, retailers demand that you adhere to these voluntary labels. And once you are labeled, you suddenly have to fit into a neat little category. It means that except for a few exceptions, content is dumbed down so that it meets the approval for play by, say, a twelve or thirteen year old. Because of marketing. Because of retail space. And it means that AO content flat out will never exist.
So in a roundabout way, to "protect" your four year old kid, the content a 30 year old man plays has to be fitting for a thirteen year old kid. People don't just create compelling content and let it be what it is naturally. They have to be aware of every bit of content they're creating and think "is this acceptable in most people's minds for a thirteen year old?".
Sometimes, as an adult, you just want to be able to have content that is aimed at you. You don't want to have everything covered in rounded soft corners just to avoid having some busy body freak out because she ignored the content and let her ten year old play a game filled with brutal decapitations or drugs or sexual references or "intense moments".
I truly understand what you mean. But as a father and consumer, I do not dictate what's on the store or how a game is produced, neither do the people who create the ratings. They still have my full support because their guidance helps me as a consumer and a father.
The problem you mention is another: why do game publishers and retail stores only want to sell games to 13 yo's? Probably because that's the more game demanding demographic. And they want those 13 year olds' money, and that's A LOT of money. And also because you can sell those game to adults too, and they won't complaint much (probably because some of them are like 13 YOs, but that's a different problem.) But you can't do the opposite, you can't sell adult games to teenagers. It looks as if, for the game industry, adult gaming was a niche market with low-profits. But we, parents, and the ratings people have nothing to do with that.
Also, game studios have to deal with share-holders. They are constantly pushing to get more and more customes or players and earn more money. One of the strategies is broaden your player base by reaching a younger audience (if possible.) Again, parents and ratings people have nothing to do with that.
So, there's no evil in the ratings, the problem basically is that by dumbing down games both publishers and retail stores sell more games. And there's not much that anyone can do about that... ----
Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here |
Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2009.01.19 22:50:00 -
[87]
Do these "legal" requirements extend to in-game content aside from the message?
I've always liked the fact that EVE is apologetically dark, if it goes soft and starts worrying whether the content crosses the "T is for Teen" line then I will not be long of this universe.....
I mean if Peter Molyneux can deal with a "Mature" rating and have the kind of commercial success he has had.... I wish CCP pushed the appropriateness barrier, it used to feel like it back a couple years ago but lately it feels like the threat of any potential bad press or what-have-you is a greater concern than then integrity of EVE (and don't give me any of that it can be Teen and have integrity, censorship is everything that is wrong with the world) --
Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donęt forget the reach-around.
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Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.01.19 23:08:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Haradgrim Do these "legal" requirements extend to in-game content aside from the message?
Extend, in what way? The rating indicates what the content is within the game. Therefore, if the game meets the US ESRB 13+ rating and the PEGI 12+ rating, then the content within the game is thereby restricted to that level. If the content in the game were to be of a more mature nature, then the ESRB and PEGI rating would be adjusted as it would no qualify for "T for TEEN" status. |
Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.01.19 23:13:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Dmian I truly understand what you mean. But as a father and consumer, I do not dictate what's on the store or how a game is produced, neither do the people who create the ratings. They still have my full support because their guidance helps me as a consumer and a father.
And yet, books don't contain warnings. Not everything in the world is for children. And that's fine if they want to have some sort of a resource (perhaps that website where the guy actually gives parents a meaningful rundown of actual game content rather than just an ESRB sticker). The problem is when it either directly or indirectly affects what adults can consume. I would be livid if the nature of "business" caused the public library to only stock books for the child's section, because they felt they were more acceptable than "mature" books.
By claiming to "protect children" and imposing these ratings, they are doing far more than simply "guiding" parents in what they purchase for their children. They are flat out affecting what the rest of us are able to consume by the stigma and supposed demographics involved.
Quote: The problem you mention is another: why do game publishers and retail stores only want to sell games to 13 yo's? Probably because that's the more game demanding demographic. And they want those 13 year olds' money, and that's A LOT of money. And also because you can sell those game to adults too, and they won't complaint much (probably because some of them are like 13 YOs, but that's a different problem.) But you can't do the opposite, you can't sell adult games to teenagers.
Except that is not the case. Most gamers are adults. The average gamer is not a little kid. The average gamer is hitting 30 years old this year. The average gamer is an adult capable of choosing the content they purchase and consume. The average gamer has disposable income and purchases games throughout the year and not just when mom and dad or santa clause buy them something at the few periods throughout the year (which is why we saw such a block buster year in 2008 with great releases throughout the year instead of just before the holidays).
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Element 22
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.19 23:47:00 -
[90]
Ahh, I can't wait for the first hyperbola filled evening news story:
"Eve-online, the new MMORPG for children that alows you to do unconsentual thing to other people! More at 11."
or better yet
"The shooter then proceded to shoot his classmates full of bullets while allegadly saying 'Learn to use sheild boosters noobs!'"
mmm, blaming others for your short comings...I like this part of America.
Also, personally I would prefer to have a goverment regulatory body in which case it would be more transparent and subject to change (which is a double edged sword I know). Signatures are annoying...kinda like me. |
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