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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Luteros
Minmatar Corps der Traenen
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Posted - 2009.01.20 14:03:00 -
[121]
I guess all this is about the Windows client, what about Linux? Do we get premium? Do we get a native running Client?
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Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.01.20 14:27:00 -
[122]
I think this was the best possible compromise.
I am, however, curious if you are planning to step up the hardware requirements in other areas as well, now that the classic client will be discontinued. For example, CPUs.
The system requirements of EVE read thus: - Classic --- Minimum: 800MHz Pentium 3 (MMX, SSE) or AMD Athlon (MMX) --- Recommended: 1,5 GHz Pentium 4 (MMX, SSE, SSE2) or Athlon XP (MMX, SSE) - Premium --- Minimum: 1,5 GHz Pentium 4 (MMX, SSE, SSE2) or Athlon XP (MMX, SSE) --- Recommended: 2,0 GHz Pentium 4 (MMX, SSE, SSE2) or Athlon XP (MMX, SSE)
From this lineup, I can deduct that the client is compiled with MMX extensions, but without using SSE extensions. These extensions are special instructions that are necessary to allow a CPU to use its full set of internal functionalities when processing code, and can make staggering differences (using a SSE3 engine instead of a non-SSE engine for Seti@Home, for example, more than doubles (!) processing speed). Modern CPUs can use up to SSE4.2, which is the sixth or seventh iteration of the set.
However, if CCP were to discontinue supporting the AMD Athlon CPU, and instead require Athlon XPs (like the Premium client already does), then the client could be compiled using at least the first-gen SSE extensions. This can potentially make the client much more performant on (surprisingly enough) the remaining CPUs on the low-end of the spectrum, because it is those which are having to work the hardest. It would also improve multi-accounting, provided the video card can handle it.
On the other hand, the original Athlon was a tremendously popular CPU. CCP would have to look into how many of those are still around. And of course, check into how much performance the EVE client does in fact gain from the first-gen SSE set (I'm only throwing around theories here).
Furthermore:
Considering that the classic client is being dropped, and the Premium client lists the Athlon XP as minimum requirement, people with original Athlons or Pentium 3's may experience problems anyway. Has CCP considered the impact of the new "Lite" client on old CPU architectures? If it will not run properly anymore because the CPU can't cope with what the SM2 video card asks of it, then this should be mentioned by CCP in their warnings about the discontinuation of the classic content so that people who plan their upgrades know what they need.
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Jai Cee
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:01:00 -
[123]
It would be nice if people had a chance to try out the new Premium Lite client on TQ too BEFORE you cut off support for Classic. While I begrudgingly (since I like to do in station stuff on my laptop which is SM1 and was working just fine thanks) accept Classic is going it would seem incredibly unprofessional to not release Premium Lite ASAP.
I find that even on my desktop which is very high end (Quad 3.3GHz, 8800GTS graphics) running two clients at the same time results in a slide show where I normally get 140fps wit all settings on high with a single client. Given that two clients is so important to a lot of the player base I can't see how you could countenance not having a transition period where Classic, Lite and Premium are all supported.
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Malusae
Caldari House CHOAM Terrebellum
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:03:00 -
[124]
CCP should do like steam does and do a hardware survey every once in a while.
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Freemancos
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:06:00 -
[125]
Hey, sometimes i'm playing eve on asus eeepc 4G with great 15 fps. So, what I suppose to do now?
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Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:08:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Jai Cee (...) I can't see how you could countenance not having a transition period where Classic, Lite and Premium are all supported.
The very reason for discontinuing the classic client prevents this.
Apocrypha brings us Tech 3 ships.
There are no art assets (models, textures, etc) for Tech 3 ships being developed the classic client, because it takes way too many development resources.
Therefore the classic client can not, in any way, shape or form, possibly continue to exist even one day after the expansion is released. |
Jen Lee
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:09:00 -
[127]
So I have my laptop with Radeon express 200m graphics. Which according to the linked Wiki page does not support shader model 2.0 but 1.4.
The GPU-Z program says the card supports Shader 2.0. And I have found other support pages to confirm SM 2.0 also.
Is the Wiki page incorrect or the GPU-Z program?
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Doublewhopper
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:20:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Baru NaRok Hi all.
What the...? I can't believe this discussion is really going on. Hardware that isn't capable of SM2? Sorry I have to say that but, that machines are from stone-age if you think in technological scale. Other MMORPGs never ever supported SM1 cards *cough* e.g. WoW *cough*. Also not further supporting/offering the classic client will result in better support for the Premium (Light/Lite/Delight ;)) version.
Greets, Baru
What is the technological scale? How does it fit with you that today SM2 machines (netbooks) are sold while SM4 is available and SM5 is on the horizon?
Also don't post pure lies...the current requirements for WoW is right at the time of this posting:
3D graphics processor with Hardware Transform and Lighting with 32 MB VRAM Such as an ATI Radeon 7200 or NVIDIA GeForce 2 class card or better
If you don't know what SM1 or SM2 means, please don't post here!
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Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:24:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Jen Lee So I have my laptop with Radeon express 200m graphics. Which according to the linked Wiki page does not support shader model 2.0 but 1.4.
The GPU-Z program says the card supports Shader 2.0. And I have found other support pages to confirm SM 2.0 also.
Is the Wiki page incorrect or the GPU-Z program?
When in doubt, contact ATI technical support... but in this case, I'm inclined to believe GPU-Z over the wiki.
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ElMo's Ghost
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:33:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Freemancos Hey, sometimes i'm playing eve on asus eeepc 4G with great 15 fps. So, what I suppose to do now?
Wait so you're telling me that you can't run eve very well on a $300 laptop. I guess the solution for those of us with laptops isn't going to involve a $300 fix as stated before.
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Haral Reimo
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:34:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Jen Lee So I have my laptop with Radeon express 200m graphics. Which according to the linked Wiki page does not support shader model 2.0 but 1.4.
The GPU-Z program says the card supports Shader 2.0. And I have found other support pages to confirm SM 2.0 also.
Is the Wiki page incorrect or the GPU-Z program?
GPU-Z is correct. My old laptop has a Radeon Express 200m chipset, and can definitely run shader model 2.0 software. I suspect you're confusing it with the R200, which is the chip used in the Radeon 8500 cards and can only support SM 1.4
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Njord V
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:38:00 -
[132]
Nice!
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Jen Lee
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:44:00 -
[133]
Thanks for clearing that for me.
Since the Wiki page does not have "all" the specifics, um maybe CCP shouldn't be pointing us in that direction but in a better one?
0/
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Freemancos
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:53:00 -
[134]
Originally by: ElMo's Ghost
Originally by: Freemancos Hey, sometimes i'm playing eve on asus eeepc 4G with great 15 fps. So, what I suppose to do now?
Wait so you're telling me that you can't run eve very well on a $300 laptop. I guess the solution for those of us with laptops isn't going to involve a $300 fix as stated before.
What? 15fps is great for me, but with the elimination of the classic client perhaps I will have less fps, or directly don't run |
Wolfie276
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:58:00 -
[135]
nice move :D
but still a bit unfair for the people with not enough money for upgrade
just keep the classic client as a 3rd opinion please :)
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Rhibhinn
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Posted - 2009.01.20 16:02:00 -
[136]
Thanks for listening to the army of laptop users out there CCP. Good compromise.
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Haral Reimo
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Posted - 2009.01.20 16:05:00 -
[137]
Originally by: ElMo's Ghost
Originally by: Freemancos Hey, sometimes i'm playing eve on asus eeepc 4G with great 15 fps. So, what I suppose to do now?
Wait so you're telling me that you can't run eve very well on a $300 laptop. I guess the solution for those of us with laptops isn't going to involve a $300 fix as stated before.
The eeepc isn't a laptop. It's a netbook, which have massively reduced performance compared to a laptop.
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Army of One
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Posted - 2009.01.20 16:26:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Freemancos
Originally by: ElMo's Ghost
Originally by: Freemancos Hey, sometimes i'm playing eve on asus eeepc 4G with great 15 fps. So, what I suppose to do now?
Wait so you're telling me that you can't run eve very well on a $300 laptop. I guess the solution for those of us with laptops isn't going to involve a $300 fix as stated before.
What? 15fps is great for me, but with the elimination of the classic client perhaps I will have less fps, or directly don't run
I play EvE regularly on my 1000H and usually get 30-40. Granted I zoom out all the way in 'busy' scenes and I've tweaked on a lot of my video settings (not to mention disabling sound, which for some reason greatly boosts FPS in Classic), but it gets the job done.
I still expect better performance from a 'Premium Lite', as Premium utilizes the GPU a lot better.
And either way, this change is coming whether you like it or not, so deal with it or quit, tbh. |
Deva Blackfire
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2009.01.20 17:29:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar
Originally by: Deva Blackfire FOR LOVE OF GOD - SAVE MY OVERVIEW SETTINGS. If i change from classic to premium whatever i DO NOT WANT TO SET UP ALL MY CHARACTER WINDOWS/OW SETTINGS AGAIN.
Thank you.
Dude, just back them up.
Dude - backup doesnt always work. |
ElMo's Ghost
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2009.01.20 18:00:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Kessiaan And either way, this change is coming whether you like it or not, so deal with it or quit, tbh.
This thread was created so players could post their opinions on the new changes. Close the thread or deal with the complaints, tbh.
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PJRiddick
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Posted - 2009.01.20 18:09:00 -
[141]
To CCP: To address a couple things here, 1) If you do take the classic client out of use, there are going to be a percentage of people that are not going to be able toplay only because they will not have themoney to upgrade there systems to play. Remember that there are a lot of people here that are using mommy and daddys system, a system that they got at tigerdirect or rprobably went strait to DELL and got the cheepest system that they could find jsut to satisfy there need to keep up with the jonses, and these are the systems that JR ar eplaying EVE on, >i shoudl know, with in my corp there are several in that respect now< and if you do discontinue the classic client, they will not be able to play at all. 2) using a client that requires a heaftier vid card in it only limits the players that can play eve,...again see #1 for that answer. Heres the solution: Go ahead and produce and put into production the new PREMIUM LITE package client of EVE and get it up and running. Leave the classic client on line for the time being with a time limit of one year til lyou actually remove it form service thus allowing people time to either upgrade or get a new system to play eve. I actually think that you at CCP are a bit harsh to just spring this on us all at once at least as fast as yo all did. i think its cool that you are putting out a new client and all but give us a little more advanced notice, you got to think about the little guys here that play your game. I for one can afford the better graphics. Resontly i upgraded my system to 4 gig of ram, an ATI 3850 AGP,...and a new 32 inch LCD display. Talk about tracking that killing shot in for the winning hit,...I have to track it with my head just to see the whole thing! anyway the point is CCP,......if you were to take the classic client out totally, then there are going to be a large percentage of people that are not going to be able to play for what ever reason mostly becasue of money and upgrades. Give it some thought,...You all havent disapointed me yet,...i doube that you will this time.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.01.20 18:21:00 -
[142]
I'm extremely pleased that CCP listened to the feedback of the majority, instead of doing what the vast majority of companies do, which is just plow on ahead regardless.
Originally by: Ishina Fel I am, however, curious if you are planning to step up the hardware requirements in other areas as well, now that the classic client will be discontinued. For example, CPUs.
Superb spot. This is an excellent question and worthy of feedback from CCP.
The other possibility is that rather than a specific difference in SSE, the minimum clock speed of 1.5GHz is the reason they favour the Athlon XP. The maximum Thunderbird speed is 1.4Ghz and may have been deemed below the bar.
If we assume it is due to SSE, a lot would depend on what compilers and languages are actually used throughout the client, beyond the obvious Python. Quite a few compilers won't select SSE or other instructions such that the code will no longer run without it - instead, the programmer must explicitly use SSE intrinisics in the code - one major exception that comes to mind is the Intel C/C++ compiler which can add those sorts of instructions natively during compilation.
From what you describe, it would indeed seem that the Athlon Classic/Thunderbird processors would be incompatible if SSE is the issue, unless the Premium Lite and thus the Premium client (since it's implied to be shared code) are adapted to allow for the lack of SSE. Given that every SSE function can be emulated more slowly in 'normal' code, that is at least feasible. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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joydivisionn
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Posted - 2009.01.20 18:28:00 -
[143]
Iam afraid that both my laptop AND pc are not going to like this.... and me neighter.
i love to play eve but i cant afford to buy 2 new systems, hell, i cant affort to buy 1 new system...
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Adam Reed
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.20 18:49:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Altridge McAltpherson
If you can't afford a new ú300 laptop then frankly you should have bigger concerns than computer games.
If 300 quid is nothing to you I accept paypal.
What he said. My god, what senseless middle-class arrogance.
To CCP, right decision I think. It means no more laptop EVE for me but it makes sense for the future of the game, while ditching Shader 2 at this point would have been going too far due to the point addressed in my first sentence and the words "economic downturn". |
Claude Jorgen
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:27:00 -
[145]
Stop messing around and make peops upgrade to sm4.
All those eve junkies heading out to by new cards will revive the economy and save the world \0/.
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Rakivic
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:29:00 -
[146]
I hope that your going to finaly fix the Nvidea rendering problem that some people are having (like me for one) ----------------------------------------------- [Image Removed] CCP did not like my signature so I had to replace it with this one |
zen kei
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:31:00 -
[147]
Gnulpie
You have watch a station Amarr with classic graphic ? Light which move near the station, station have the color of gold. Take the premium graphic and light dissapear, the gold is transformed to dark bronze.
Watch a lot of amarr ship t2, the classical graphic are really more beautiful than premium. Crusader, ark, guardian, ... and all other, check the red, the gold.
And why you can like a game which take more ressources for nothing ? There are probably enough thing to unbug, improve before that ...
CCP have say than concentrate their team for resolve bug. 10 bugs for 1 one thing add.
For the moment its a 1 bug corrected for 10 add and 10 old thing removed too or change for cant by used anymore.
I put that in the list with all other errors from CCP.
Price of gtc increased, some gtc removed, a lot of players have cancel their accounts because the price is too expensive. Yes ccp win more money but lost many accounts. If CCP prefer have 10 players which pay 1000$/month than 10k players which pay 10$/month, it's the CCP problem ! But when the people have some problem of money, the first thing stopped are the useless thing like online game !
Bye CCP, its too much for me.
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Bibi
Basic Tritanium Mining North
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:49:00 -
[148]
Edited by: Bibi on 20/01/2009 20:54:22 I got mixed feeling about this change. At first I only got very angry, but I understand that the game must move forward. But I think this is the wrong way, as far as I know its not been a lot complains on the eve classic client if any. So why change it even if more work.
I understand that people with good or latest hardware want to see support for it in the game and so they should get it from CCP thats good. But would have been very nice to see classic version survive as well, just because a lot of eve customers liked it a lot.
For myself the eve playing is over for now, when subscription run out this month, but I will be back for sure when I get new computers ofcurse even if it will take a few years as I study atm I can't afford new computers at this point. I did run multiple accounts in the game and there is no way I would play eve without being able to use all accounts at the same time as I can now with classic. Maybe selfish I don't know...
later people o/
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zacuis
Great Big Research
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:11:00 -
[149]
Edited by: zacuis on 20/01/2009 21:12:11 So will lite work better or worse than classic on my advent 4490 netbook ? really looking forward to the test release.
frankly i cant understand why u guys arnt just releaseing 1 client that has the options to reduce visual quality to the point u can run it on anything. i know it would be popular. guess it shows my lack of understanding into programming.
oh and thanks for not killing shader model 2 just bought this netbook and the only reason i got it was to play eve ( at work ).
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Ragya
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:35:00 -
[150]
S3, S4, S5, Sn ok, but please please change the background of system. No need of further Ssomething... |
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