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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Dorh Uemh
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Posted - 2009.01.22 05:05:00 -
[211]
CCP made the right choice.
I can't understand why ppl are still complaining about this new requirement. Anyone with 2 braincells rubbing together knows that any PC you buy will be out of date within a few years.
I save a few bucks a week and toss it into my savings account and earmark it for future PC upgrades. After 1 year I have enough for minor changes like video card or new stick of RAM. If I don't spend anything on my PC for 3 years I usually end up with more than $500 for PC upgrades or complete replacement. If I need to use that money for emergencies/bills/etc then EVE is not a necessity that I would or could pay for.
If you don't have the funds to upgrade a 6+ year old machine then what the hell have you been wasting your money on? Did you think that if you ignored it the problem would just go away?
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MrDover
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Posted - 2009.01.22 05:14:00 -
[212]
Thank you CCP! I believe it was a good decision for the time being.
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Gargamell Smurf
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Posted - 2009.01.22 07:12:00 -
[213]
Edited by: Gargamell Smurf on 22/01/2009 07:18:16 Edited by: Gargamell Smurf on 22/01/2009 07:13:16
Quote: ...-We won't stop there - we are providing two flavors of ShaderModel 2.0 compatible shaders, currently named "lo" and "hi". What does this mean? It means that framerate enthusiasts can get even more performance when running under ShaderModel 2.0. We will also allow people to select any ShaderModel below what their hardware supports - thus allowing players to trade quality for performance and vice versa.-...
...-1. We can use the same assets as Premium. Admittedly people will most likely choose to run with textures that have lower resolution as well, but these will simply be downsampled (lower resolution mipmaps) from the existing Premium textures. Some textures will also be skipped entirely like, for instance, normal maps-...
This is a HUGE step in the right direction! Finally! Now continue along with the concept of 'allowing players to trade quality for performance'. Take it even farther. I want FPS! I want those internet-spaceships to look like old 8 bit Nintendo! Give me frame rates and lightning fast load times! thank you.
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Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
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Posted - 2009.01.22 07:20:00 -
[214]
Of course, people who complain about CCP losing subs completely ignore the overhead costs of having to build the same assets for 2 different engines, essentially.
As i see it, they had a choice of either building models, textures and all that for 2 different engines and keep a few more subs, or focus on one engine and lose some subs. It cost them less to focus on one engine and lose some subs, than to try and maintain 2 engines for the minority that couldn't run the newer one.
Simple business, really. Also, focusing on one engine has the advantage of being able to push out more and better content, because they don't have to mind 2 engines anymore - Which in turn means keeping up with the times, and being able to market the game to more people who'd make up for the people who couldn't play anymore.
And lastly, desktop users who cannot afford to upgrade to an SM2 card have no right to whine about this change. If you cannot afford the $50 it costs to upgrade, why are you playing a monthly subscription computer game?
Laptop users should understand that the game can't remain stagnant. MMO's which do not update themselves die off, or at best, have a sharp drop of subs down to a low, stagnant level. Whether you like it or not, you're in a very small minority that doesn't have or can afford the hardware to play SM2+ games.
As a thought.... People would be whining about this change, even if it was announced 5 years beforehand. This is a videogame. What's the harm of not being able to play this particular one anymore?
EVE History Wiki
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CloseLook
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Posted - 2009.01.22 09:10:00 -
[215]
I play on a p4 2.6ghz with 1gb ddr and a 256mb Ati radeon 9250 on agp.
So for me it's not 50$ to upgrade the computer. To play premium I'l need totally new hardware wich donno If I can get it from under 500eu (like cheapest possible to make it work wich would mean 10/20 fps tops and that's when you mine alone in the system, dont wanna go for large fleets of 400vs400 that we started to have).
To take a brake from eve to go work second job so I can get a new pc to get back in the game... yeah right wait for me ccp till I get back, but dont hold your breath.
As for the aford for accounts and not 50$ to upgrade thing. Yeah I have 2 accounts but I dont pay them with cash I pay them with etc's bought with isk, (wich ccp already make shure I dont enjoi by taking out the 90day ones btw).
Overall, eves power so far stood in the comunity and social interaction, people (like me) been ready to play a crap graphics game just to be with those they came to be friends with, either to go with them in fleets or other pvp combat actions or just to complete there tasks they choose to have in there corporation/alliance.
Moveng to premium will reach for those that seek graphics and fx so thats another kind of market so to speak.
So I kindof understand CCP going for max profit (less work, more dudes getting in than out...etc) in the end that's what it's all about isnt it?
Yeah eve will look better yeah maybe more will get in it than out, in the end that's the gamble I think ccp is ready to take and most prolly will win. |
Miraqu
Caldari Amarrian Heavy Industries German Wing
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Posted - 2009.01.22 09:25:00 -
[216]
I think it's basically the right choice. My Laptop can do SM2 so I still keep the ability to log in from a hotel to change skills.
Just hope that CCP will not break wine compatibility with the new client since I have long given up to wait for anyone at transgaming to get a halfway eve client done.
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Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2009.01.22 10:28:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Elysarian on 22/01/2009 10:28:16
Originally by: CloseLook I play on a p4 2.6ghz with 1gb ddr and a 256mb Ati radeon 9250 on agp.
So for me it's not 50$ to upgrade the computer. To play premium I'l need totally new hardware wich donno If I can get it from under 500eu (like cheapest possible to make it work wich would mean 10/20 fps tops and that's when you mine alone in the system, dont wanna go for large fleets of 400vs400 that we started to have).
I refer you to my post on page 7... factor in an extra 1Gig stick of RAM and you'd still be looking at a shade under $50 (at current rates) - leaving you with a PC that would be faster in general use as well as being capable of running Eve post-update.
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Midshipman
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.22 11:20:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Dentad
Originally by: Grigori Black So how do you check to see if your computer runs Shader Model 2?
Run utility http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/ Look in DirectX Support box.
I've got a laptop with a S3 Unichrome Pro IGP running on a VIA K8M800 IGP chipset. GPU-Z doesn't recognize this GPU. Anyone know what Shader Model it supports? S3 and VIA's websites don't offer any useful technical specs. --- *snip* - Not really an appropriate signature, please email mods@ccpgames if you have any questions - Tallan |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2009.01.22 11:23:00 -
[219]
At least you realized the mistake of trying to end shader 2.0 support. Probably a very good move. Look to perhaps 2011 to make that change if you need to.
Graphics to me don't matter though, I"m much more interested in gameplay. Some of my favorite single player games are over a decade old.
I'd much rather see the time spent fixing broken bits of the game and expanding gameplay rather than making it look pretty.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Deira Lenia
Carebear Evolution
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Posted - 2009.01.22 11:35:00 -
[220]
Well, i guess this is a good reason to quit and say goodbye then.
Much like others im not gonna stuff 400-500 bucks of upgrades in a computer just to play a game. Which is harldy playable half of the time anyway.
This ol ati radeon 9800 pro has been in service for 8 years now, and it will not get replaced anytime soon seeing games like WoW, WAR, L2 and even the new CoD works fine with it. Might not get more then 30 fps, but it works fine.
I dont get my computer for free Wrangler, too bad you do. -- Real men corpse tank Void Forums The Chaotic Order Forums |
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2009.01.22 11:48:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Deira Lenia Well, i guess this is a good reason to quit and say goodbye then.
Much like others im not gonna stuff 400-500 bucks of upgrades in a computer just to play a game. Which is harldy playable half of the time anyway.
This ol ati radeon 9800 pro has been in service for 8 years now, and it will not get replaced anytime soon seeing games like WoW, WAR, L2 and even the new CoD works fine with it. Might not get more then 30 fps, but it works fine.
I dont get my computer for free Wrangler, too bad you do.
You should be okay I think that supports Shader 2.0. So you should be okay for march and for the near term they've abandoned upgrade to min of shader 3.0. Like me you'll just have to use premium lite.
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Jarakun
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Posted - 2009.01.22 12:02:00 -
[222]
CCP, while I see you are trying hard to keep the game to not just a decent standard, but a high standard, by upgrading the minimum SM requirements, it seems you have given in to user demand, while not necessarily being a bad thing to adapt your plans to your players, sometimes it is necessary to not only reach the boundry of gaming graphics, but push past it. If in forcing your large group of customers to upgrade their minimum specs, you are then forcing the market to compete with you, which hopefully will cause greater advancements in the gaming industry. As most companies will try to make their games hit max on the systems they run on.
Keep SM2 for now guys but set a definate date for SM3 minimum, get those slackers up-to-date its for the good of us all.
Ps. Your going to need to change the monthly cost of the game guys, incase you hadn't noticed there is a global recession, the exchange rate is slowly making me pay more than I can afford, soon I may have to lose an account, maybe both if it gets much worse... and I hear it will.
Pps you ****ed us on the 1 skill per account. 1 skill per character!!!!
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Sonya Rayner
REUNI0N Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.01.22 12:12:00 -
[223]
It would be really nice of you, dear CCP developers, if you'd offered a bit more graphics options in settings. Like completely disabling some graphics features, that is not necessary to run client - give us ability to scale client performance in hardware resource-tight situations, like fleet battles atc. I'm already running powerpoint presentations in fleet fights with over 300 players on classic client, and my machine is SM3-compatible! Give us option to completely turn off pixel shaders, even if it leaves us with textures only. Tat'd be fine. For most of the fleet fights i bet many players would turn off shaders, textures and other effects completely, since we're dealing with overview and a few sprites (brackets, etc) scattered here and there anyway. That wouldn't require you to create more, if any at all, new graphic assets!
And i surely hope, that spare time from dealing with additional client model will be spent on performance tuning of the other.
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Naga Tokiba
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Posted - 2009.01.22 12:23:00 -
[224]
Will onboard graphics cards be supported, for example the Intel GMA 4500 ? (It supports DirectX10 and Shader 4.0) |
T 2
Minmatar Tribal Core
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Posted - 2009.01.22 13:47:00 -
[225]
I think that CCP made the correct choice. This is the only way to move the game graphics properly forward without having too much effort to have two different full clients to develop.
Props for that!
Meanwhile. I think that CCP needs to start to think about the people that play eve at work while doing a dozen other things. A lot of people do corporation management, chatting, mailing, market orders etc. and newer leaves the station. In time all this will be impossible as the work-computers wont keep up with newest SharderModels.
I think a "EVE-docked up" -client would be a very usefull thing in the future. With this client you could not undock your ship. It would be only to do the micromanagement, chatting and whatever can be done while not flying. With this - you would not have to have two full clients to develop with all the graphic stuff. The docked-up client dont need to have too much gfx in it. Just a interface to eve.
Please consider this when going forward with developing EVE. I feel that this kind of EVE-light client would be usefull to a lot of people out in the world.
Best Regards, T 2 ----------- Member of Tribal Core - fighting for Minmatar Militia. Death to Amarr; long live the Minmatar Nation.
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strcpy
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Posted - 2009.01.22 14:40:00 -
[226]
So the ccp want less accounts running in the same time :) but you will fail losing a lot of people. Anyway is a game for rich ppl and sooner or later your actions will doom your business. And NO we won`t play Darkness online. |
Mistress Nyissa
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Posted - 2009.01.22 15:42:00 -
[227]
Great, it was obvious from that thread that what everyone wanted was SM2 as a minimum because all those SM1 users who posted are worthless users CCP didn't want anyway...
Does "we recieved a lot of feedback" translate to "we couldn't be arsed to read it"?
Thank god our beloved games company will be spending their time promoting more graphical pretties rather than fixing game mechanics, balancing gameplay and doing something actually productive.
Did you even bother to look at how many people use Classic Vs those that use Premium because everyone I know uses Classic. The gains from Premium aren't noticable and the fps loss is.
Still, we're surrounded by politicians that can't make a common sense decision, why should we expect more from a games company? |
Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.01.22 15:47:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Sonya Rayner It would be really nice of you, dear CCP developers, if you'd offered a bit more graphics options in settings. Like completely disabling some graphics features, that is not necessary to run client - give us ability to scale client performance in hardware resource-tight situations, like fleet battles atc. I'm already running powerpoint presentations in fleet fights with over 300 players on classic client, and my machine is SM3-compatible! Give us option to completely turn off pixel shaders, even if it leaves us with textures only. Tat'd be fine. For most of the fleet fights i bet many players would turn off shaders, textures and other effects completely, since we're dealing with overview and a few sprites (brackets, etc) scattered here and there anyway. That wouldn't require you to create more, if any at all, new graphic assets!
And i surely hope, that spare time from dealing with additional client model will be spent on performance tuning of the other.
CCP should definately take note of this.
If the only reason you're removing the classic client from the game is because:
1. You aren't easily able to manage two sets of graphics models for everything etc. 2. To make the game look better for everyone.
Then you can afford to make people use the Premium graphics, but allow a large degree of user-controlled scaling down of resource-hungry graphics settings so fleet fights will be manageble.
Of course, i know you will do this because of the time you've just saved your employees from dealing with the classic client, right? There has to be a good high performance option in the game, simply because of the way a large portion of the playerbase play the game. |
javer
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.22 15:51:00 -
[229]
good call and im happy enough that both my laptops are set to keep working :-) |
Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.01.22 16:25:00 -
[230]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 22/01/2009 16:30:32
Quote: We will however not pursue going to ShaderModel 3 as a minimum, at least for now.
Thank you for listing to the community.
Let My People Go |
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2009.01.22 18:00:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Naga Tokiba Will onboard graphics cards be supported, for example the Intel GMA 4500 ? (It supports DirectX10 and Shader 4.0)
You shouldn't have any problem with that.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Doublewhopper
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Posted - 2009.01.22 18:05:00 -
[232]
Maybe someone could enlighten me about Shader Models...
If it is easy to automatically generate SM 2.0 models out of SM 3.0 models, then why can't you take those SM 2.0 models and automatically generate/downgrade them into SM 1.0 models?
Why can't you create a SM 1.0 premium lite client automatically?
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chatgris
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Posted - 2009.01.22 18:14:00 -
[233]
One thing, if you are going to disable support for low-end machines, how about adding a skill queue or a web-based interface for changing skills? I can foresee times when the only net access I have on a holiday is some ****ty machine in a net cafe, and that skill needs to be changed. |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.22 18:17:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Reiisha Of course, people who complain about CCP losing subs completely ignore the overhead costs of having to build the same assets for 2 different engines, essentially.
Actually I addressed it quite specifically. 5% churn is over $2mil per year in lost revenue. That's a lot of man-hours. |
Aethrwolf
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.22 19:48:00 -
[235]
Edited by: Aethrwolf on 22/01/2009 19:54:07
Originally by: Desmont McCallock ... Now, as for the laptop users, come on... have you seen the prices on the market for one? Even I am thinking of buying one just for the fun of it.
Yes, I have seen the prices... Have YOU seen the unemployment rate for Michigan?? last month was 10.6% and its still going up. I'm only playing because I can make enough ISK to buy gtc's. I will most likely be unable to upgrade my laptop any time soon. I can run sm2 on it, but I CANNOT run it on my desktop.
I understand ccp's need to consolidate their client in the current economic situation around the world, and I am glad they are taking steps to be more efficeint rather than just raising what they charge their player base. Hopefully they can balance the client with what their player base actually can run. Another vote for a hardware survey here.
BTW: to all of you who continually cut/flame those of us who have money issues... theres a reason you say that here and most likely not IRL. Please consider that those words hurt or anger people just as much here as they would to their faces.
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Danky Nuggets
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Posted - 2009.01.22 21:45:00 -
[236]
I can garuntee that this will not help everyone but that bieng said for thoes desktop users that have a PCI express slot in the motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162026 . $20 and you won't have to worry about what CCP decides to do for a long time to come. |
Marcus Arelios
Caldari Global Sheep Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.22 22:34:00 -
[237]
Edited by: Marcus Arelios on 22/01/2009 22:41:05 AH HA! I told ya the devs listen to us. No SM3 requirement yet! I say yet, since one day it will come, but at least its not planned now.
Although I do smell less linux support in the future...although I don't see how you can get less than what we have. Wine ran eve beautifully for me, but the official linux "client" didn't work for crap. Hopefully wine can run this new premium lite with the same quality. |
Marcus Arelios
Caldari Global Sheep Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.22 22:39:00 -
[238]
Originally by: T 2 I think that CCP made the correct choice. This is the only way to move the game graphics properly forward without having too much effort to have two different full clients to develop.
Props for that!
Meanwhile. I think that CCP needs to start to think about the people that play eve at work while doing a dozen other things. A lot of people do corporation management, chatting, mailing, market orders etc. and newer leaves the station. In time all this will be impossible as the work-computers wont keep up with newest SharderModels.
I think a "EVE-docked up" -client would be a very usefull thing in the future. With this client you could not undock your ship. It would be only to do the micromanagement, chatting and whatever can be done while not flying. With this - you would not have to have two full clients to develop with all the graphic stuff. The docked-up client dont need to have too much gfx in it. Just a interface to eve.
Please consider this when going forward with developing EVE. I feel that this kind of EVE-light client would be usefull to a lot of people out in the world.
Best Regards, T 2
Thats actually not a bad idea and I don't think it would be ridiculously hard to implement. The main reason for not wanting a skill queue was so players would have to login and interact with the world at least on some level, this would provide that plus more. |
Wacktopia
Infinity Miners Union Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
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Posted - 2009.01.23 00:03:00 -
[239]
I think you made the right decision CCP. Improving the game and driving it forward without compromising accessibility must be difficult.
Im on a sm2 laptop so clearly pleased-prob upgrade soon tho as premium looks sweet.
Shame there are people whining in quite such a negative way. Probably the same people that would whine if you never upgraded the content, i guess.
T3, better gfx, ambulation (*prepares flame proof shield*).... 2009 jools like a good year so far :)
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Aten Hau
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Posted - 2009.01.23 00:18:00 -
[240]
Ill keep this simple, I love eve and am not incredibly knowledgeable about computer terminology.
My lap top plays premium right now....that means I'm good right?
Silly question I know, but I just want to be 100% sure
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