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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:01:00 -
[1]
With the pos exploit revealed and the illegally produced moon materials removed we see an increased demand for high end moon minerals. Minerals like dysprosium.
Dysprosium is a product necessary to build t2 ships and t2 items. Every t2 ship contains a certain amount of dysprosium and without dysprosium there are no t2 ships ...
... unless you use alchemy to make dysprosium substitues. However, these substitues are very slow to build (at pos in 0.3 space or lower) and therefore cannot cover the demand for dysprosium.
As a result we saw ever increasing prices of dysprosium since the pos-exploit revealed and today we see a real shortage of that dysprosium in Jita. Almost no material is available on the market any more and the prices shoot up further.
Is CCP and their economist watching? Will they intervene or will they just let the forces of the market do their work until alchemy becomes profitable and can satisfy the demand of the t2 production?
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jam6549
Cold Blooded Killers
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:03:00 -
[2]
they said they're still calculating the total effect of what it had on the market and I doubt they will do anything to intervene. Prices will become high, alchemy will therefore become more popular and hopefully the prices will drop. Just the way it goes, dont worry about it
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Xtreem
Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:05:00 -
[3]
this is why a player driven market is awesome, its got its up, and its downs, working perfectly if you ask me.
and i know you will say that the exploit caused alot of the lows, although true that means that if anything its only returning to the levels it should have been in the first place :)
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Trilli Shaw
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:19:00 -
[4]
Originally by: jam6549 I doubt they will do anything to intervene. Prices will become high, alchemy will therefore become more popular and hopefully the prices will drop.
They said they will do something when there is absolute shortage! Soon all dys is sold out! What then?? And if alchemy becomes more popular then alchemy-materials become more expensive also and not profitable again! |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:20:00 -
[5]
Good. T2 had gottten too cheap, which imposed an artificial handicap on low SP players.
Now some balancing. |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Trilli Shaw
Originally by: jam6549 I doubt they will do anything to intervene. Prices will become high, alchemy will therefore become more popular and hopefully the prices will drop.
They said they will do something when there is absolute shortage! Soon all dys is sold out! What then?? And if alchemy becomes more popular then alchemy-materials become more expensive also and not profitable again!
Then t1 will rule again! |
Podee
Something Squishy
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:22:00 -
[7]
I have 5 units WTS for lotsa isk. |
jam6549
Cold Blooded Killers
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Trilli Shaw
Originally by: jam6549 I doubt they will do anything to intervene. Prices will become high, alchemy will therefore become more popular and hopefully the prices will drop.
They said they will do something when there is absolute shortage! Soon all dys is sold out! What then?? And if alchemy becomes more popular then alchemy-materials become more expensive also and not profitable again!
well if alchemy does get more popular then prices will drop...
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Rainhailer
Gallente Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.01.19 20:43:00 -
[9]
There is no shortage of Dysprosium.
Unless moons are getting blown up and nobody told me?
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Lothris Andastar
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Posted - 2009.01.19 21:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rainhailer There is no shortage of Dysprosium.
Unless moons are getting blown up and nobody told me?
Ah sorry that would be my fault.
It's the damn Minmatar curries, made of dodgy things I reckon
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Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.01.19 22:07:00 -
[11]
Alchemy cannot supply enough Dysprosium, and many other 32 to 64 rarity minerals. prices will eventually skyrocket, and big alliances will just start raising up their T2 prices. so will little alchemists.
Good job CCP, you balanced T2. _______________________________________________ 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 |
Von Kroll
Caldari Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.19 22:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Demitria Fernir Good job CCP, you balanced T2.
Ending an exploit was a mandatory action, and the right thing to do regardless. Necessity is the mother of invention--either an alternative will emerge or CCP will make a fix. |
Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.19 22:46:00 -
[13]
Or, on the off chance, the March (or later) expansion will introduce whole new industrial mechanics. And POS spam and moon mining breakage will be just an unhappy memory, like the t20 BPO lottery. |
Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.20 00:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Malcanis Good. T2 had gottten too cheap, which imposed an artificial handicap on low SP players.
I don't think I've ever heard skill requirements described like that before ...
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t20
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.20 00:34:00 -
[15]
hAVE no fear, im working on a new "fix" that would make my friends rich and lower t2 prices a bit
I ♥ BoB |
T0m8
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Posted - 2009.01.20 00:36:00 -
[16]
My stuff are free
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.01.20 00:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gnulpie Is CCP and their economist watching? Will they intervene or will they just let the forces of the market do their work until alchemy becomes profitable and can satisfy the demand of the t2 production?
Yes, they're watching. No, they won't intervene before the moment when something becomes so rare it's basically no longer on the market at all, nearly all of it beig traded in "off the books" direct trades and such (they've stated something to that extent anyway). Dysprosium-replacement alchemy is already BARELY profitable, why the heck do you think Cadmium prices more than tripled ? But no, alchemy (in its current form anyway) will never satisfy the demand of T2 production, even if you are to believe the (hinted at) claims that Cadmium moons are 20 times more numerous than Dysprosium moons, even if no more Gallente T2 ships are ever manufactured (so no drawing off of cadmium-including racial components), and still you could be looking at most at a doubling of dysprosium-based supply. Realistically speaking, my guess is at best a 10% increase in dysprosium-based supply... but production capability was (for a while, at least, due to the exploits) at over 50% higher than currently... so, yeah, dysprosium will still go up, and will KEEP going up for a good while (also dragging Cadmium up with it at about 1:40 or 1:35 ratio).
Bottom line, nothing to see here, move along. _ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Ker HarSol
Minmatar Zip - I
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Posted - 2009.01.20 17:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Akita T alchemy (in its current form anyway) will never satisfy the demand of T2 production
Any numbers to back up that ridiculous claim? It needs 10 pos for 100 dys. So, how many dys moons are there and how many alchemy pos (including those low end moons) would it need to replace dys completely? Not that insane many...
Before you talk like you all know it better (as you usually do), get the numbers right.
Alchemy IS a viable option to replace dysprosium.
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Einstein's Ghost
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Posted - 2009.01.20 18:47:00 -
[19]
The market is still regulating itself. Obviously the present volumes are unsustainable, so some producers will have to quit. The sooner they realise that, the faster and less painfuly the market stabilizes. |
ceaon
Gallente Porandor
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ker HarSol Alchemy IS a viable option to replace dysprosium.
on paper is a option, this is one thing and other thing is to have ppl actually doing alchemy |
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:49:00 -
[21]
Have you considered the time taken to babysit 10 poses could be spent, oh, I don't know. Mining veld in an Ibis instead?
I'm with Akita again. Damn, we're starting to look like each other's alts. Such massive lowsec reaction efforts are not going to go unnoticed by the red blinky set either. Barely profitable on paper does not constitute enough motivation do so. Especially when far more profitable returns per time and cash invested exist -- including running other reactions.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Clair Bear Such massive lowsec reaction efforts are not going to go unnoticed by the red blinky set either. Barely profitable on paper does not constitute enough motivation do so. Especially when far more profitable returns per time and cash invested exist -- including running other reactions.
Well, then the prices will continue to rise till it is profitable to babysit 10 POS. Simple economics.
Frankly the whole alchemy thing is bogus. There were excellent suggestions being tossed about for a more flexible moon mineral system before Alchemy and CCP seems to have ignored the lot. Or at the least they opted for the easy fix. Alchemy essentially just places a price cap somewhere out there. Sooner or later Alchemy would become profitable enough to moderate Dysp prices and all will settle down and that is where the price cap will be.
It is artificial and sucks frankly. CCP in its wisdom chose an awful model with moon mining. A static system that is inflexible to changing demands. In such a rich economy it is a real shame it came about this way but I suppose it allows CCP more direct control.
-------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:18:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Joss Sparq on 20/01/2009 20:19:42
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Clair Bear Such massive lowsec reaction efforts are not going to go unnoticed by the red blinky set either. Barely profitable on paper does not constitute enough motivation do so. Especially when far more profitable returns per time and cash invested exist -- including running other reactions.
Well, then the prices will continue to rise till it is profitable to babysit 10 POS. Simple economics.
Frankly the whole alchemy thing is bogus. There were excellent suggestions being tossed about for a more flexible moon mineral system before Alchemy and CCP seems to have ignored the lot. Or at the least they opted for the easy fix. Alchemy essentially just places a price cap somewhere out there. Sooner or later Alchemy would become profitable enough to moderate Dysp prices and all will settle down and that is where the price cap will be.
It is artificial and sucks frankly. CCP in its wisdom chose an awful model with moon mining. A static system that is inflexible to changing demands. In such a rich economy it is a real shame it came about this way but I suppose it allows CCP more direct control.
Out of curiousity, have you tried managing 10 POS'es? I think my patience ran dry at the 4 to 5 mark (And on that note I'd like to take a moment to thank you, ridiculously painful anchoring and unanchoring system, because you suck a donkey!) but seriously, I don't see alchemy working out in the long term on the simple basis that I suspect there is a limit the number of people who totally take to EVE as their second full-time job with a devotion bordering on the manic and who could survive that grind without ending up in some dreary institution for the mentally deranged.
P.S. alchemy sucks. I find it tastefully ironic that the emplaced solution to our problems with moon materials is identified with the moniker of a quack performance for turning base metals into gold - in short, a load of crap that didn't actually work.
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Viper ShizzIe
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:20:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Demitria Fernir Good job CCP, you balanced T2.
If HACs hit 500m again you can start complaining, otherwise~
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Joss Sparq Out of curiousity, have you tried managing 10 POS'es?
I currently run 7 POS with the help of one other player. Doable but a pain. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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