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el alasar
The Scope Gallente Federation
167
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Posted - 2012.04.19 11:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
reduce shields and armor by half but increase hull HP - the hulk has 3 times the mass of a BC! all this has got to be the reinforced hull holding the ship together for hard industrial usage, what else? volume should be increased from 200k to 300k m-¦ and signature radius from 254m to 300m.
make it more sturdy to allow up to 80k EHP hulks while dramatically reducing its tanking ability. check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like |
Trollin
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.19 14:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
10 year old game and they havent added a new mining ship since... 10 years?
meanwhile, we get t3 BC that can fit BS guns, and T3 strategic cruisers with crazy dps and subsystems, but miners get what??? oh yeah EMP L to the face, no new ships for you,
the gankers cry, it will hurt the market, the indomitable, smarter and faster and meaner than us all market will be hurt by an extra 1000m3/min of veldspar. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
228
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Posted - 2012.04.19 14:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:lets see if we can make this into an opportunity to bring in a new Mining ship.
A mining vessel that focuses on a Major tank and not Production Maybe battle ship size - Able to use 2 Strip miners. Or Special Mining drones. Able to provide Minor PVP support eve quivalent to Sniping destroy possibly
unless all the people being ganked have been using ships max minining ability vs a tank? Here is a thought.
Make a turtle.
Make a mining drone ship. No turret slots, no launcher hardpoints.
Make it so tough, that anyone trying to gank one is recommended to take a drug test afterwards. (Think Marauder level defenses)
Now, have it rely exclusively on mining drones. It can fit 10 total in it's drone bay, and control 5 in space.
Give it bonuses so these 5 drones can collectively perform at a level between the Covetor and the Hulk.
Now, gankers can eat these drones, sure... but the ship can get away. It can fit a tank they can't get through, if it wants. (again, Marauder levels, but focusing on defense... a fleet could eat one, but not a solo ship very well)
TL:DR Gankers can stop it from working, but it is likely to survive the encounter |
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
53
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Posted - 2012.04.19 15:21:00 -
[34] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Stay always aligned and warp out when clown in 2 mil cata starts locking you.
Of course that would require you to actually pay attention to your surroundings so CCP really needs to do some work and make your shiny hulkies invincible... 2 things: 1: being aligned means you will have to stop, turn around, and then re aproach the damn roids every 5 minutes. (thus defeating the purpose) 2: once the ganker has locked you it is all over. |
Byrrssa Crendraven
Shadow Knight Industries
3
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Posted - 2012.04.20 02:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:The best tank to fit on a Hulk is to move it out of high sec.
REALLY?! And how does this help anywhere in the conversation? |
Minemenhotty
Pro Synergy ACE WRECKING COMPANY
0
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Posted - 2012.04.20 04:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Gevlin wrote:lets see if we can make this into an opportunity to bring in a new Mining ship.
A mining vessel that focuses on a Major tank and not Production Maybe battle ship size - Able to use 2 Strip miners. Or Special Mining drones. Able to provide Minor PVP support eve quivalent to Sniping destroy possibly
unless all the people being ganked have been using ships max minining ability vs a tank? Here is a thought. Make a turtle. Make a mining drone ship. No turret slots, no launcher hardpoints. Make it so tough, that anyone trying to gank one is recommended to take a drug test afterwards. (Think Marauder level defenses) Now, have it rely exclusively on mining drones. It can fit 10 total in it's drone bay, and control 5 in space. Give it bonuses so these 5 drones can collectively perform at a level between the Covetor and the Hulk. Now, gankers can eat these drones, sure... but the ship can get away. It can fit a tank they can't get through, if it wants. (again, Marauder levels, but focusing on defense... a fleet could eat one, but not a solo ship very well) TL:DR Gankers can stop it from working, but it is likely to survive the encounter
You mean give it survivability? Like a tank? Oh wait, the hulk already has the ability to fit a tank!
Fitting your hulk is risk vs. reward, like most everything in EVE. If you think you're unlikely to get ganked, go ahead and fit those MLU's. Not feeling like risking your expensive exhumer? Fit some mods to increase your EHP. If you think you're REALLY likely to get ganked, roll up to the 'roids in a battleship fitted with mining lasers.
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Minemenhotty
Pro Synergy ACE WRECKING COMPANY
0
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Posted - 2012.04.20 04:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Stay always aligned and warp out when clown in 2 mil cata starts locking you.
Of course that would require you to actually pay attention to your surroundings so CCP really needs to do some work and make your shiny hulkies invincible... 2 things: 1: being aligned means you will have to stop, turn around, and then re aproach the damn roids every 5 minutes. (thus defeating the purpose) 2: once the ganker has locked you it is all over.
1. Being aligned and being full-speed aligned are two very different things. You don't need to be aligned and at full-speed to avoid being ganked. You can't sit stationary and mine while you watch TV, that's a shame. You actually will need to pilot the ship you're umm....piloting.
2. There is not a single ship in the game that can lock you the moment you see it on grid. They do take time to come out of warp to be able to lock, then lock time. You will not likely find a ship with a scan res high enough to insta-lock you on landing AND have the dps to pop a hulk before being concorded.
You have 2 options here: fit mods to survive the gank at the expense of a little productivity, or actually be at your keyboard, piloting your ship, and paying attention while you play EVE. Personally, I think BOTH should be required, but currently, you only need to do one or the other to survive. |
Octoven
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
1
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Posted - 2012.04.20 18:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
I agree with this proposal. Mining in a hulk is risky, that is EvE; however, ganking should take with it the same risk. The issue, gank toons can easily be replaced when standings go too far into the hole to get into high sec. Your loss is minimal and the other party has a greater loss. I understand that hulks should not carry a drake tank, but there does need to be some sort of ability to defend against these attacks. If there is a fleet, your hulk is going down bar none, I can accept that, but one little dessy should not be able to pop a hulk. The **** of it is that that same dessy can't even pop a cruiser.
Now, Ive heard many people say that the best defense is to stay aligned so you can warp out if need be. I can tell you from personal experience, this doesn't work. Most gankers have some level of propulsion enhancement to get to you before you do align, assuming there are no warp jammers, they may still prevent you from leaving by simply bumping your ship. If I were to fix anything it would be ship bumping. Im sorry, but a frig should not be able to knock the hell out of an orca to prevent it from warping. That is kind of like me pushing over a skyscraper. Bumping can stay, but at least make it relative to the mass of the ship. This should prevent so much bumping of a hulk to prevent warp out. It stays squishy and hulk pilots can still warp out if they are paying attention without a bump ******* up the chance to. Everyone gets a shot there. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
227
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Posted - 2012.04.20 19:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:It's ridiculously easy to prevent getting ganked in a Hulk. You deserve to be ganked if you're too stupid to figure out how.
Quote:increase the tank of all the t2 mining ships and t2 transport ships. i think adding 2000 shield and 1000 armor would be sufficient. not sure though.
Quote:New contracts with Inferno through-out this year sometime. Hire someone to protect you.
Here's the problem neither of you get, reguardless of which side of the fence you're on.
In high sec ganking a hulk is all about alpha. This is not hard at all to do and is quite cheap to perform as well.
Fitting out a hulk with pure tank instead of cargo and mining related modules means they need to bring one more destroyer.
Adding 2000 shield and 1000 armor, plus a full tank means they need to bring 2 more destroyers.
Bringing security means that there's more people there to watch you alpha down that hulk.
The security cannot engage you without you engaging their fleet first. Therefore, they won't have time to stop you from aplh'ing down the hulk. the only way they can potentially stop it is by ganking the aggressors first. However, this only helps the aggressors because they can then hit one shot on you and get concord's killmail, and then still have their ships to be able to gank the hulk. So security is pointless in high sec, because you can't engage the aggressors first.
More tank on the hulk is also pointless because their price leaves a wide open gap between their cost and the cost of ships to gank them. Right now, it can easily be done with 2 destroyers add tank and pure tanking modules. Well, you can put 10 destroyers on that hulk and still have a massive difference in price loss.
So my suggestion is to actually go a different path. Perhaps slightly increase the tank of the hulk, but also, greatly reduce the mineral costs of exhumers. to the point where they costs about 100 mil isk.
if you don't do it this way, then the only other way to do it is to give them so much tank that ganking them would require the same or more isk in ships than what you would be destroying.
Basically, what I'm saying is the only way to stop high sec ganking at the rate to which it exists is to make it cost just as much to take down a hulk as the hulk itself costs.
People do it because it's easy and much cheaper than the cost of the ship they're destroying. Change that and you fix the problem... Now, if they gank a hulk it's because they really wanted him dead and not because they could do it easily with much less isk costs. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
863
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Posted - 2012.04.20 20:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
You could always stop mining in hulks in hisec ... Covetors are only 3-5x the cost of dessies now... with the same hilariously bad tank as the hulk... |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
186
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Posted - 2012.04.21 02:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:blah blah blah stuff about alpha Notice I said prevent getting ganked, not survive ganking.
Stay aligned and warp out when someone capable of ganking you warps in. Easy peasy. I know what objection you have to this and I guarantee you there's an easy way around it. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
696
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Posted - 2012.04.21 03:24:00 -
[42] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:blah blah blah stuff about alpha Notice I said prevent getting ganked, not survive ganking. Stay aligned and warp out when someone capable of ganking you warps in. Easy peasy. I know what objection you have to this and I guarantee you there's an easy way around it. Survived the ice interdiction this way. Though mining aligned while ice mining is a pain (due to ice collision boxes being huge).
If you mine aligned, only the most determined of gankers will get you. And there aren't that many.
NOTE: for those of you who don't understand, there is no such thing as passive aligned. Aligned in EVE means flying towards a warpable object. |
LT Alter
Mostly Wrong Decisions
5
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Posted - 2012.04.21 09:03:00 -
[43] - Quote
Do what I did, spend a few bil to make a hulk that tanks 1500 dps, with like 20k ehp. :P
Stop complaining, it's working fine and the mineral price increase is a hulk buff in itself if you want isk. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
85
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Posted - 2012.04.21 17:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
Quote:and while I don't want the bots back, the EVE economy needs a decent over-supply of minerals (and especially the low-end ones) to keep inflation in check.
I'm not seeing the bad here.. as prices rise miners will rise to the occasion to meet the demand.. this in turn will give cankers.. I mean gankers more to shoot at.
As a reality check, I bought my first hulk.. (a long time ago) for 500 million. Mineral values weren't as good then as they are now.
While I would like to see a small bump to tanking ability for the hulk.. it's not as necessary as one for Mackinaw would be. The Mack is gimpy.. not so much the hulk.
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Antonio Valor
Squirrel Horde Habitat Against Humanity
0
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Posted - 2012.04.21 20:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
The HULK you speak of is BIG and GREEN and MEAN it does not need a Buff |
Tinu Moorhsum
Royal Scientific Research Enterprise
101
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Posted - 2012.04.21 21:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:Quote:and while I don't want the bots back, the EVE economy needs a decent over-supply of minerals (and especially the low-end ones) to keep inflation in check. I'm not seeing the bad here.. as prices rise miners will rise to the occasion to meet the demand.. this in turn will give cankers.. I mean gankers more to shoot at. As a reality check, I bought my first hulk.. (a long time ago) for 500 million. Mineral values weren't as good then as they are now. While I would like to see a small bump to tanking ability for the hulk.. it's not as necessary as one for Mackinaw would be. The Mack is gimpy.. not so much the hulk.
Well..... after reading some dev blogs, I'm convinced that it's CCP's intention to actually drive prices up in order to get more people mining again.
What's bad about inflation, for those who mentioned that they thought it was a good thing, is the following:
- as mineral prices are driven up, the price of nearly everything on the market will be driven up. Sure, if you're a producer (miner) then you'll like it because it will mean more isk in your wallet. The vast majority of eve players, however, are consumers and will pay more for everything
- ISK reserves you have built up are worth less as inflation goes up. It's like someone is taking (stealing) money out of your wallet, except the "thief" is called "inflation" and there is no way you can do anything about it. The numbers don't change but it translates into everyone in the game becoming "relatively" poorer than they were
- It takes time to grind isk. Rat bounties and various other sources of income are not indexed to the mineral prices.... so therefore the the vast majority of people in EVE who do NOT mine will spend more time grinding isk in order to afford whatever it is they spend their isk on.
- More time spent grinding means people will probably become a little more risk averse in PVP. More risk aversion means slower PVP, fewer "shiny" ships to kill (or fly/afford) and more people running from fights (and most people run from fights as it is).
So a small segment of EVE players is really going to like higher mineral prices because their wallets will get fat. But the vast majority are going to see it as a problem.
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