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Galactic Tycoon
Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:03:00 -
[1]
I only have 14M sp but its enough to pvp.
I get the few kills and the few losses...but gradually my money goes down.
I do make several hundred million a week in the market but that only just pays for my ships. A heavy assault ship puts you back well over 120M and the insurance for it doesn't work at all. Battlecruisers are about 75M+ and present a juicy and fairly slow target. Battleships....the Abaddon price is just crazy imo. If you're in a fleet and get called primary it really doesn't matter how good your tank is, you're probably going down.
So logically you think well fly something cheaper. The average cruiser costs about 20M to fit in T2 modules/turrets. Considering it's easy to take a cruiser out, it's a lot of money.
I wish ships were cheaper to encourage more pvp or maybe 0.0 could be more lucrative? I want to see 4M rat spawns not 1.8M at best! Come on.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:06:00 -
[2]
No, your fully fitted ships are too expensive. Lose the faction stuff. It's true that a cruiser now costs about 20m to get a full T2 fit on, but your other figures are either the result of too much meta 6+, or are being purchased outside of decent trade regions.
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Khemul Zula
Amarr Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:07:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Khemul Zula on 20/01/2009 19:07:13
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon I wish ships were cheaper to encourage more pvp or maybe 0.0 could be more lucrative? I want to see 4M rat spawns not 1.8M at best! Come on.
....
*walks out of thread*
------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:10:00 -
[4]
Since the rise in t2 prices I now fit my ruppy with gallium autos.
It's getting pretty damn expensive. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:19:00 -
[5]
ummm no? Seeing as you can fit them with any mods you like (almost) you can range from the oh so wikid civilian gear to them oh so expensive Chribba's Modified versions. |
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Industry Tycoon
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:26:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Industry Tycoon on 20/01/2009 19:26:20
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 20/01/2009 19:19:45
edit: looking back on your figures I still say they're out of whack (except the T2-fit T1 cruisers), but I retract the statement about them having "too much faction stuff". Still, I'm not sure how you can be paying 75 mil for a T2 fit BC. SOME T2 cruisers might cost 120 mil to T2 fit, but I just bought and fit a Cerb for 100 mil and a Rook for less than that. The Eagle I got was purchased at the onset of the T2 components problem so I still got it cheap, but if I'd gotten it today the total cost of ship and fittings would still be in the vicinity of 100 mil or so. What region are you buying this stuff in?
Personally I don't mind where prices have gone. If things get too cheap it causes a situation where T2 becomes a baseline standard for competitiveness, which is the wrong way for things to be going. Doubling rat bounties would kill PvP for low-SP players who can't fly T2, unless they consign themselves to be cannon fodder in large gangs.
Jita prices for a drake: 30M, 3 Purger rigs 42M, total 73M without modules.
I was talking about tech I rigs by the way.
I agree with the low sec comment.....give them better rats too then.
EDIT: Damn forums defaulting to my alt.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:30:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 20/01/2009 19:36:01
Oh right, rigs. I always forget those. Nonetheless, making access to ISK easier pushes the baseline standards of fitted module quality higher, instead of lower like it should be.
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:34:00 -
[8]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 20/01/2009 19:35:20
Dear OP and OPs alt.
Ship losses are supposed to hurt, that's the idea.
Stop dying or stop fitting such expensive crap.
There's loads of ways to make an effective ship setup instead of just buying the most expensive and obvious mainstream setups because your eft says you'll last 1.5 seconds longer in a firefight or whatever.
I wish I made several hundred mill off the market each week.
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Hooded Hauler
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 20/01/2009 19:35:20
Dear OP and OPs alt.
Ship losses are supposed to hurt, that's the idea.
Stop dying or stop fitting such expensive crap.
There's loads of ways to make an effective ship setup instead of just buying the most expensive and obvious mainstream setups because your eft says you'll last 1.5 seconds longer in a firefight or whatever.
I wish I made several hundred mill off the market each week.
This tbh, also Chribba says no and therefore regardless of what you've got to say you're argument is doomed to failure
On a serious note, you say you make money of the market.....now how would your profits be affected if everything was reduced in price across the board....right they'd drop....so you've got cheaper ships but also less money to spend on them, and you'll be back on the forums again in a week moaning about expensive ships compared to your earnings. and if you are going through 'several hundred million' in ships each week, you need to stop dying as much |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Megan Maynard Since the rise in t2 prices I now fit my ruppy with gallium autos.
It's getting pretty damn expensive.
LOL? |
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Galactic Tycoon
Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:50:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Galactic Tycoon on 20/01/2009 19:50:25 Lol. I don't lose several hundred million a week in ships no, but I require the use of many ships in 0.0.
Ceptor, Buzzard, a BC, a BS for POS attacks. T2 cruisers for roams etc. One ship isn't enough.
Yeah you're right it would ruin the market profits. But I can still shoot rats.
I wasn't moaning, the thread was a question to prompt opinions on either point of view. |
Lady Aja
Caldari Hannibals Pirates Damnation of Souls
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:53:00 -
[12]
They must cost heaps...
I kill ships all the time with partial fittings..
save on loss of earnings for my targets.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Megan Maynard Since the rise in t2 prices I now fit my ruppy with gallium autos.
It's getting pretty damn expensive.
LOL?
?
Noobs are still noobs, it's plenty easy to kill someone with t1 named just like it is with t2. And losing 30 mil on a rupture compared to losing 10 mil is a stark difference in my wallet. |
Tellenta
Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Megan Maynard Since the rise in t2 prices I now fit my ruppy with gallium autos.
It's getting pretty damn expensive.
LOL?
?
Noobs are still noobs, it's plenty easy to kill someone with t1 named just like it is with t2. And losing 30 mil on a rupture compared to losing 10 mil is a stark difference in my wallet.
I'm pretty sure the LOL was in reference to the "rise" in T2 prices. Either you are to new to realize what the prices of T2 used to be, or you don't realize how good you have it. T2 is cheap, rock bottom cheap.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:01:00 -
[15]
And the smaller the ship the harder the recovery from the loss.
T2 frigs and t2 cruisers have a massive increase in price compared to their t1 counterparts, this applies to the modules as well...
Most cost effective pvp ship is a BS, HANDS DOWN.
Once you get double the amount of isk you need to fully fit and insure one you can go a while.
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Spurty
Caldari Technologic Dance
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:04:00 -
[16]
for rigs, run missions, salvage them, make your own rigs, profit?
And yes, I'd like to get into a fight with a ship that has no midslots please. I encourage others pvp'ing like pros with empty mid-slots. BrRAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiNNNNNNZzzzzzzzzzzz |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:05:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tellenta
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Megan Maynard Since the rise in t2 prices I now fit my ruppy with gallium autos.
It's getting pretty damn expensive.
LOL?
?
Noobs are still noobs, it's plenty easy to kill someone with t1 named just like it is with t2. And losing 30 mil on a rupture compared to losing 10 mil is a stark difference in my wallet.
I'm pretty sure the LOL was in reference to the "rise" in T2 prices. Either you are to new to realize what the prices of T2 used to be, or you don't realize how good you have it. T2 is cheap, rock bottom cheap.
I know this, my rupture fit use to be around 20-22 mil, since the dyso hack pwn it's costing me 30 mil at LEAST.
going up 8-10 mil in price on a cruiser is pretty significant.....
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Tellenta
Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Megan Maynard And the smaller the ship the harder the recovery from the loss.
T2 frigs and t2 cruisers have a massive increase in price compared to their t1 counterparts, this applies to the modules as well...
Most cost effective pvp ship is a BS, HANDS DOWN.
Once you get double the amount of isk you need to fully fit and insure one you can go a while.
A ship is not about cost effectiveness its about the ships purpose and what it brings to the fleet. Or at least it shouldn't be about cost, it is to you apparently. However if you are not matching your ship with what your fleet is trying to accomplish you are playing in a different realm than I.
T2 ships have a massive increase in price due to the massive increase of building costs. If you don't like it do your part in correcting it kill all moon mining alliances take their moons and put reactions up for sale at a massive cut rate.
Regardless the same theme that has rung throughout the history of eve still remains true, if you can not afford to lose it do not use it. |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:14:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon
I wish ships were cheaper to encourage more pvp or maybe 0.0 could be more lucrative? I want to see 4M rat spawns not 1.8M at best! Come on.
If prices were cheaper, people would get more expensive ships or fit more expensive mods. Most people like to have an edge in combat, and are perfectly prepared to throw a large amount of isk into it.
Why aren't you flying T1 fitted frigates for example? You can hundreds with your income level and not have to worry? My guess is because you want to edge of t2 modules and ships, and if you make everything cheaper, you and most people with you will just raise the bar. |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:18:00 -
[20]
No. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:28:00 -
[21]
To be honest, high prices are a sign that you should get inventive with your fittings. With the example of your Drake, you could've fit shield resistance rigs at 5m a pop, and whilst this isn't as good a passive tank as the purgers are, it does leave you the option of fitting the ship in different ways.
Same is true of armor ships: less aux nanos and trimarks, more reistances = cheaper ships and only a slight loss in performance. To coin a phrase, adapt or die. |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:39:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tellenta
Originally by: Megan Maynard And the smaller the ship the harder the recovery from the loss.
T2 frigs and t2 cruisers have a massive increase in price compared to their t1 counterparts, this applies to the modules as well...
Most cost effective pvp ship is a BS, HANDS DOWN.
Once you get double the amount of isk you need to fully fit and insure one you can go a while.
A ship is not about cost effectiveness its about the ships purpose and what it brings to the fleet. Or at least it shouldn't be about cost, it is to you apparently. However if you are not matching your ship with what your fleet is trying to accomplish you are playing in a different realm than I.
T2 ships have a massive increase in price due to the massive increase of building costs. If you don't like it do your part in correcting it kill all moon mining alliances take their moons and put reactions up for sale at a massive cut rate.
Regardless the same theme that has rung throughout the history of eve still remains true, if you can not afford to lose it do not use it.
Wasn't complaining, was stating a FACT in my last post. Prices went up, I'm changing my tactics. My rupture is usually throw away DPS at best in a fight, if they want to kill me they can but I'm gonna do a crap ton of damage until then.
Cost effectiveness nothing beats the BS class. EVER. Need a jammer, got one, need remote reps, got um........
What t2 smaller classes bring are specialties. Nothing is faster then a vagabond, nothing jams better then a falcon, nothing shoots farther then an eagle, etc.
Specialties have problems though when they are out of their element. A decent fit BS will always be a nasty opponent you have to watch out for. Especially the tier 1's. (Domi, phoon, geddon, scorp)
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Larkonis Trassler
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:46:00 -
[23]
You should have been around before invention.
HACs @ 300mil a pop T2 Turrets and launchers at 15mil+ a pop.
Hell it used to cost me 300mil to T2 fit and rig a battlecruiser. Now I can do it for 90 mil at most.
07 and 08 players don't know how good they've got it. Calm Your Passion |
Tellenta
Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:52:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Wasn't complaining, was stating a FACT in my last post. Prices went up, I'm changing my tactics. My rupture is usually throw away DPS at best in a fight, if they want to kill me they can but I'm gonna do a crap ton of damage until then.
Cost effectiveness nothing beats the BS class. EVER. Need a jammer, got one, need remote reps, got um........
What t2 smaller classes bring are specialties. Nothing is faster then a vagabond, nothing jams better then a falcon, nothing shoots farther then an eagle, etc.
Specialties have problems though when they are out of their element. A decent fit BS will always be a nasty opponent you have to watch out for. Especially the tier 1's. (Domi, phoon, geddon, scorp)
I will not dispute that, I will however say that some twisted concept of ship cost due to what other ship classes can do is ill thought out. The profit margin for inventing T2 frigates is so small that instead of building the BPC's I made I gave them to a ship building compatriot of mine because :effort: v. reward was to small for me to even bother. costs are higher because building costs are higher. The average inventor is pulling in maybe a million isk profit for weeks of copy/invention/production time. At current prices it is the inventor that is getting the short end of the stick not the buyer.
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Deva Blackfire
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon
I wish ships were cheaper to encourage more pvp or maybe 0.0 could be more lucrative? I want to see 4M rat spawns not 1.8M at best! Come on.
I wish CCP removed insurance altogether. Then battleship wont be "lol i insured it, ill be back in 5 minutes with new one" but losing em will hurt your wallet - a LOT.
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Sol'Kanar
Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler You should have been around before invention.
HACs @ 300mil a pop T2 Turrets and launchers at 15mil+ a pop.
Hell it used to cost me 300mil to T2 fit and rig a battlecruiser. Now I can do it for 90 mil at most.
07 and 08 players don't know how good they've got it.
Well said. To be honest, I'd prefer they go back up to prior costs. It was much more profitable to PvP back then. |
Tellenta
Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:21:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sol'Kanar
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler You should have been around before invention.
HACs @ 300mil a pop T2 Turrets and launchers at 15mil+ a pop.
Hell it used to cost me 300mil to T2 fit and rig a battlecruiser. Now I can do it for 90 mil at most.
07 and 08 players don't know how good they've got it.
Well said. To be honest, I'd prefer they go back up to prior costs. It was much more profitable to PvP back then.
rigs? we had no stinking rigs!!!! why back in my day we warped to gates at 15km with or without autopilot, the only way to warp to zero was to spend hours I MEAN HOURS creating bookmarks labeling said bookmark correctly, testing the bookmarks to be able to warp to a series of 10 gates at zero. *rants incoherently for 30 minutes*, *walks away waving cane at the young wippersnappers screaming don't even talk to me about the cost of a covert ops cloak!!!!!* |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler You should have been around before invention.
HACs @ 300mil a pop T2 Turrets and launchers at 15mil+ a pop.
Hell it used to cost me 300mil to T2 fit and rig a battlecruiser. Now I can do it for 90 mil at most.
07 and 08 players don't know how good they've got it.
Nitpick: Didn't invention and the subsequent crash of T2 prices predate rigs? |
Tellenta
Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:23:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sol'Kanar
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler You should have been around before invention.
HACs @ 300mil a pop T2 Turrets and launchers at 15mil+ a pop.
Hell it used to cost me 300mil to T2 fit and rig a battlecruiser. Now I can do it for 90 mil at most.
07 and 08 players don't know how good they've got it.
Well said. To be honest, I'd prefer they go back up to prior costs. It was much more profitable to PvP back then.
As an inventor I whole heartedly agree helloo profit margin!! |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:24:00 -
[30]
The only thing that stings for me when I blow up is the loss of my preeeeecioussss Domination/TS disruptors or scramblers… but luckily they tend to explode together with the ship so at least those nasty evil enemies don't get their hands on them. |
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