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EnslaverOfMinmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.23 01:07:00 -
[1]
http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/TECHGATER22_20090121-201203/185020/P30/
7 idiots were nearby and did nothing to stop it |
Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2009.01.23 01:25:00 -
[2]
Chinese are weird when it comes to romantic relationships. If this woman just dumped the guy, I'm not surprised. |
Kravick Drasari
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Posted - 2009.01.23 01:30:00 -
[3]
Knives kill people and are dangerous! Knives need to be outlawed! |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.23 01:33:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kravick Drasari Knives kill people and are dangerous! Knives need to be outlawed!
Close the knifeshow loophole! |
Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2009.01.23 01:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kravick Drasari Knives kill people and are dangerous! Knives need to be outlawed!
I wouldn't be surprised. |
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.01.23 01:49:00 -
[6]
My condolences goes out to the young ladies family.
I am not really sure what to say about this situation right now. I will hold comments till I ponder the situation a little longer.
Slade
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Shirley Serious
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.23 01:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar 7 idiots were nearby and did nothing to stop it
From police reports here in the UK, what usually seems to happen in these situations, is that the attacker is armed but shows no outward signs of things, and talks calmly and politely with the victim until there's a sudden outburst of violent frenzied stabbing. By this point, there's nothing that could be done for the victim.
Bystanders first reaction is to get the hell out of the way, meanwhile the attacker then usually goes almost inert, offering little or no resistance to arrest.
So even if the bystanders were armed, they could not have done anything to save the victim, except maybe prevent them damaging the corpse.
Yes. Yes, I am. |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2009.01.23 02:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar 7 idiots were nearby and did nothing to stop it
I wonder if you'd dive at someone with a large knife.
Some people would, lots of people wouldn't. Frankly, if you are just sitting there reading a book and enjoying your coffee, I doubt you'd be aware of what was happening till it was done. Unless he stood there with the knife out and threatening awhile to give you a chance to process it all I do not think anyone could have done anything. Remember that guy in Canada who decapitated another guy on a bus? Happened so fast the guy was dead before anyone really realized what was going on.
In short, who knows without more info if the witnesses could have done more.
As for the incident it is of course terrible. I have been ****ed at women before and had it tear me up inside but WTF is up with this? People need to get a serious grip. This guy will be a big hit in prison. Hope he thinks the rest of his life was worth that (and as a doctoral candidate was looking promising) because that is what it cost him.
As for Virginia Tech...just bad luck for them. This loon could have been anywhere. They got him.
-------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.23 02:07:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Brea Lafail
Originally by: Kravick Drasari Knives kill people and are dangerous! Knives need to be outlawed!
I wouldn't be surprised.
The British government is having a pretty good attempt.
I would not be too quick to blame the witnesses though. Criminals hold knives aloft and make sure the light glints off the blade only in movies, in real life you probably would not see anything except a brief scuffle. Judging by the few TV interviews with actual (surviving) victims I have seen, it is not uncommon to initially believe you have been punched, and only realise you got stabbed later. One that stands out was a police officer who was under that impression until seeing the blood, and they would have training in spotting weapons. A bystander perhaps trying to ignore a domestic - no chance. And OK, she got decapitated, but that would have been post-death and it is a bit late to do anything effective at that point.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2009.01.23 02:30:00 -
[10]
so after they ban knives are they going to ban 'blunt objects'?
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2009.01.23 02:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Vabjekf so after they ban knives are they going to ban 'blunt objects'?
Sporks are next since they are blunt and pointy at the same time.
-------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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HankMurphy
Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.23 03:49:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Vabjekf so after they ban knives are they going to ban 'blunt objects'?
Sporks are next since they are blunt and pointy at the same time.
your own hands will soon be illegal
so play with yourself while you still have the chance! ---------- "This is Chopper Dave's made for TV movie, Blades Of Vengeance. See, he's a chopper pilot by day, but by night he fights crime as a werewolf... YEAH!" |
Atomos Darksun
Damage Incorporated.
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Posted - 2009.01.23 03:53:00 -
[13]
Knives don't kill people! People kill people!
And the only way to stop killing is to kill people.
That's the foolproof circular logic you use to implode Skynet's brain in 30 years.
Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
CONVERT TO LINKIFICATION! http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameb |
Rondo Gunn
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.23 06:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Vabjekf so after they ban knives are they going to ban 'blunt objects'?
Sporks are next since they are blunt and pointy at the same time.
Here here.
Btw: (Just to anyone who may have missed last weeks memo.) Hard surfaces are soon to be covered in Nerf and all 'pointy' objects capped with giant pieces of cork.
Helmets for everyone Yay
On topic: :( ----------------------------------------------- shin ku myo u
Please note: Everything I say is flavored with irony, cynicism and, of course, minty freshness. |
Alice'Dee
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Posted - 2009.01.23 11:57:00 -
[15]
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jason hill
Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.23 12:20:00 -
[16]
im taking hanks advice on this one |
Viceroy Cole
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.23 17:09:00 -
[17]
Linkage |
TU144 TEPPOPNCT'CMEPTHNK
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.23 22:48:00 -
[18]
Next thing you know showing or displaying any sign of a sharpe tongue or brandishing dry wit will get you life behind bars(or a sudden death by cop).
i wonder what you would get for a wet wit(would it be as sharpe and deadly) ???
even graduates can be immature, sorry i'll rephrase graduates ARE immature.
should humour, wit, or sarcasm be banned ? what should be the penalty for brandishing such in a public place.
what will the comedians get (in years) behind bars.
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Horsemen of Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.01.24 07:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Brea Lafail
Originally by: Kravick Drasari Knives kill people and are dangerous! Knives need to be outlawed!
I wouldn't be surprised.
if this happened in the UK, you can bet that thought would be circling around in their heads for a long time
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Horsemen of Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.01.24 07:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar 7 idiots were nearby and did nothing to stop it
I wonder if you'd dive at someone with a large knife.
Some people would, lots of people wouldn't. Frankly, if you are just sitting there reading a book and enjoying your coffee, I doubt you'd be aware of what was happening till it was done. Unless he stood there with the knife out and threatening awhile to give you a chance to process it all I do not think anyone could have done anything. Remember that guy in Canada who decapitated another guy on a bus? Happened so fast the guy was dead before anyone really realized what was going on.
In short, who knows without more info if the witnesses could have done more.
As for the incident it is of course terrible. I have been ****ed at women before and had it tear me up inside but WTF is up with this? People need to get a serious grip. This guy will be a big hit in prison. Hope he thinks the rest of his life was worth that (and as a doctoral candidate was looking promising) because that is what it cost him.
As for Virginia Tech...just bad luck for them. This loon could have been anywhere. They got him.
sad, but true, there is a "mentality" that people go into when something major like a knife attack happens, im not sure what its called, but basically, people DO see whats going on, and see it as wrong, buuut, if there are multiple people around, their brain is automatically wired to think "hey, why do i need to do it, there are 6 others that will" and each of the 7 people thinks that, thus, no one helps
so, in a nutshell, your actually probably safer with LESS people around |
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.24 08:50:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar 7 idiots were nearby and did nothing to stop it
I wonder if you'd dive at someone with a large knife.
Some people would, lots of people wouldn't. Frankly, if you are just sitting there reading a book and enjoying your coffee, I doubt you'd be aware of what was happening till it was done. Unless he stood there with the knife out and threatening awhile to give you a chance to process it all I do not think anyone could have done anything. Remember that guy in Canada who decapitated another guy on a bus? Happened so fast the guy was dead before anyone really realized what was going on.
In short, who knows without more info if the witnesses could have done more.
As for the incident it is of course terrible. I have been ****ed at women before and had it tear me up inside but WTF is up with this? People need to get a serious grip. This guy will be a big hit in prison. Hope he thinks the rest of his life was worth that (and as a doctoral candidate was looking promising) because that is what it cost him.
As for Virginia Tech...just bad luck for them. This loon could have been anywhere. They got him.
Too bad none of those bystanders were armed... *oh well*. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.24 08:58:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 24/01/2009 08:59:10
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Too bad none of those bystanders were armed... *oh well*.
It would have changed nothing. How the hell did everyone miss this gem of a reply:
Originally by: Shirley Serious
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar 7 idiots were nearby and did nothing to stop it
From police reports here in the UK, what usually seems to happen in these situations, is that the attacker is armed but shows no outward signs of things, and talks calmly and politely with the victim until there's a sudden outburst of violent frenzied stabbing. By this point, there's nothing that could be done for the victim.
Bystanders first reaction is to get the hell out of the way, meanwhile the attacker then usually goes almost inert, offering little or no resistance to arrest.
So even if the bystanders were armed, they could not have done anything to save the victim, except maybe prevent them damaging the corpse.
And where did this turn into a govt bash against outlawing things? Wait and see for the reaction please instead of rampaging like idiots.
Your cap ship deserves CPR's! |
Sobach
Gallente Fourth Circle
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Posted - 2009.01.24 19:03:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 24/01/2009 08:59:10
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Too bad none of those bystanders were armed... *oh well*.
It would have changed nothing. How the hell did everyone miss this gem of a reply:
Originally by: Shirley Serious
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar 7 idiots were nearby and did nothing to stop it
From police reports here in the UK, what usually seems to happen in these situations, is that the attacker is armed but shows no outward signs of things, and talks calmly and politely with the victim until there's a sudden outburst of violent frenzied stabbing. By this point, there's nothing that could be done for the victim.
Bystanders first reaction is to get the hell out of the way, meanwhile the attacker then usually goes almost inert, offering little or no resistance to arrest.
So even if the bystanders were armed, they could not have done anything to save the victim, except maybe prevent them damaging the corpse.
And where did this turn into a govt bash against outlawing things? Wait and see for the reaction please instead of rampaging like idiots.
emphasized a few keywords there, a broad generalized report from another country, not exactly what one should use to judge what should/shouldn't or could/couldn't have happened in this particular incident.
that being said, I do agree with general description of how these things tends to happen, but I do disagree with his general assumption that it's too late to do anything for the victim. It really varies a lot with each individual case. A frenzied stabbing at the wrong places will cause the victim a world of hurt and a whole lot of scarring, but those are survivable. On the other hand, a single nick in the wrong place, and you can bleed out in minutes or less.
Without an accurate account, or indeed, unless you were there, it's probably impossible to tell if anything could have been done if one of the bystanders were armed. What I do find to be appalling, is that it sounds like the guy was able to stab the victim multiple times AND cut her head off UNOPPOSED! Contrary to what's usually shown in movies, heads don't come off that easily, especially when the instrument is a knife. He would've had to been working at it for a bit -_-;;;
While there's no telling if she would've survived the initial stabbings, the lack of action by those present GUARANTEED that she would not survive when they let him cut her head off, likely while she was still alive -_-;; |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.24 19:17:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 24/01/2009 19:17:32
Originally by: Sobach What I do find to be appalling, is that it sounds like the guy was able to stab the victim multiple times AND cut her head off UNOPPOSED! Contrary to what's usually shown in movies, heads don't come off that easily, especially when the instrument is a knife. He would've had to been working at it for a bit -_-;;;
While there's no telling if she would've survived the initial stabbings, the lack of action by those present GUARANTEED that she would not survive when they let him cut her head off, likely while she was still alive -_-;;
There is indeed no way for us to know whether the initial killing was too quick for intervention, but if it was, would you risk your life to save a corpse from mutilation? If the deed is done, and the guy looks busy, I would be more concerned with making sure everyone else can leave via a nearby exit. You don't know the ages or condition of the witnesses, not everyone might have been capable of dealing with that sort of situation. If he is intent of getting another victim, then absolutely, have at him, no time to lose. But if not, then you have a window of opportunity to get anyone who needs to be out of the way, out of the way. It might not necessarily be the choice you make, but...? Sitting on the internet, we cannot second-guess what the priority of people's responsibilities actually was at that moment. |
Sobach
Gallente Fourth Circle
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Posted - 2009.01.24 19:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
There is indeed no way for us to know whether the initial killing was too quick for intervention, but if it was, would you risk your life to save a corpse from mutilation? If the deed is done, and the guy looks busy, I would be more concerned with making sure everyone else can leave via a nearby exit. You don't know the ages or condition of the witnesses, not everyone might have been capable of dealing with that sort of situation. If he is intent of getting another victim, then absolutely, have at him, no time to lose. But if not, then you have a window of opportunity to get anyone who needs to be out of the way, out of the way. It might not necessarily be the choice you make, but...? Sitting on the internet, we cannot second-guess what the priority of people's responsibilities actually was at that moment.
That's the thing though, knife assault victims don't usually die instantly. If the attacker had time to stab the victim multiple times, there was enough time for people to do something if they had the will to do so. If I had to guess, people probably just screamed and ran away when they realized there was a guy stabbing someone, which is something they had every right to do.
Now personally, I can't imagine that I WOULDN'T have done something. If I was armed, I would've emptied a mag into his chest, if I wasn't armed, there are plenty of weapons of opportunity present inside a cafe - chairs, tables, hot liquids, endless assortment of blunt objects to incapacitate or at least drive him back away from the victim.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.24 20:00:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sobach That's the thing though, knife assault victims don't usually die instantly. If the attacker had time to stab the victim multiple times, there was enough time for people to do something if they had the will to do so.
Well, that's an if. The article says nothing about the wounds inflicted, so we do not know. It might have been a frenzied attack, or he could have cut her throat in one practiced movement. Actually, from observation in my student days, Chinese international students are a lot more adept with knives than their Western counterparts, as they have not spent their lives eating out of a pizza box. But you could be right. |
Sobach
Gallente Fourth Circle
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Posted - 2009.01.24 20:42:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Sobach on 24/01/2009 20:43:07 True, the chance of inflicting unsurvivable wounds in the neck area is relatively high, even for amateurs for obvious reasons.
Still though, I just can't imagine leaving someone to the mercy of their attacker like that. If I see a fellow marine getting attacked like that, "safely exit" the area would be the last thing on my mind, whether or not it looks like he or she will survive. If nothing else, preserving some sort of dignity and peace for their last moments is the least I can do.
On a lighter note, what makes you say Chinese people are more efficient with a blade? if you said chopsticks I'd agree, but wouldn't Japanese be the best with all practice they get making sushi and sashimi? |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.24 20:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 24/01/2009 08:59:10
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Too bad none of those bystanders were armed... *oh well*.
It would have changed nothing. How the hell did everyone miss this gem of a reply:
Originally by: Shirley Serious
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar 7 idiots were nearby and did nothing to stop it
From police reports here in the UK, what usually seems to happen in these situations, is that the attacker is armed but shows no outward signs of things, and talks calmly and politely with the victim until there's a sudden outburst of violent frenzied stabbing. By this point, there's nothing that could be done for the victim.
Bystanders first reaction is to get the hell out of the way, meanwhile the attacker then usually goes almost inert, offering little or no resistance to arrest.
So even if the bystanders were armed, they could not have done anything to save the victim, except maybe prevent them damaging the corpse.
And where did this turn into a govt bash against outlawing things? Wait and see for the reaction please instead of rampaging like idiots.
I didn't 'miss' anything. Someone is quoting some loser police report from the UK about what 'usually happens'?
If someone has a 12" chefs knife (or something similar I'm assuming, he did decapitate her and I doubt he did it with a paring knife) nobody is going to want to go anywhere near the guy. I know I wouldn't, not if I was unarmed. That being said, if I were armed, I'd shoot him at my first opportunity, and I certainly wouldn't sit there and wait for him to finish decapitating his victim.
You have any idea how hard it is to do that? Even with a razor sharp 12" chefs knife? Let's just say it's not easy. Maybe the guy had an 18-24" wakizashi or something, but I still doubt he could have completed the job instantly.
Regardless, if someone were armed there would be the possibility of stopping the violence. As it is, there wasn't. Too bad for the girl and too bad for Virginia Tech and the rest of their loser administrators. |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.24 21:04:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 24/01/2009 21:05:41
Originally by: Sobach On a lighter note, what makes you say Chinese people are more efficient with a blade? if you said chopsticks I'd agree, but wouldn't Japanese be the best with all practice they get making sushi and sashimi?
Japanese, maybe, although I have not met enough to say. The difference is Chinese people tend to cook often, they use knives for cooking all the time, and many have actually killed something before, if only a chicken. The Chinese students with whom I lived at university spent hours in the kitchen. Most Westerners that age can't even slice bread properly. I have to admit, if they saw me cutting up a chicken (which only happens once in a blue moon), they would probably look with puzzlement.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.24 21:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Regardless, if someone were armed there would be the possibility of stopping the violence. As it is, there wasn't. Too bad for the girl and too bad for Virginia Tech and the rest of their loser administrators.
You take this approach every time without ever questioning it. There was good reason to expect her to be dead even without the decapitation although a section will have to confirm this. As analysis has proven and the guy I quoted linked, these kind of killers often have a clear target so what you rather have, her dead and him killed or her dead and him caught able to be properly punished for what he has done, and the family given the satisfaction of learning the story of how and why exactly.
Your cap ship deserves CPR's! |
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