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Aluka 7th
Viziam Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2012.04.19 14:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
REQUIRED SKILLS
Minimum to produce Industry 3 Mass production 4 Production efficiency 4 Supply chain management 2 Minimum to sell the product Trade 4 Accounting 3 Broker relations 3 Daytrading 3 Marketing 3 Margin trading 3 Visibility 2 Procurement 3
Recommended to produce Industry 5 Mass production 5 Advanced mass production 4 Production efficiency 5 Supply chain management 4 Recommended to sell the product Accounting 4 Broker relations 4 Daytrading 4 Marketing 4 Margin trading 4 Visibility 3 Procurement 4 (for extra buy/sell order slots, stop when you have enough) Trade 4->5 Retail 1->5 Wholesale 1->5 Tycoon 1->4
LOCATION As you can read in yearly economic report, these are the trade hubs of EVE (which means you can push high volume): Jita Amarr Hek Dodixie Rens IMHO Jita issupersaturated.
CHOOSING START-UP ITEMS You should target the items that fall in as many of the following categories as possible: - Items that don't have named version just tech 1 and tech 2 - Items that have high skill requirement for tech 2 version - Items that are compact enough to move around in industrial - Items that are used a lot as popular fittings - BPO is cheap (buy BCP to test water if BPO costs more than 10mil).
Some guidelines: - Biggest problem with any production is actually constant supply of affordable materials so plan around that. - Buy minerals that are needed in large amounts locally - trit, pyerite, mex, isogen. That means make buy order with range "Station" because you will save money and time. All other materials pay-of to get flown in because they are needed in small quantity and price differences are high even inside same region. - Diversity of items you can manufacture is the key. Over time some items stop being profitable and some start again. - When producing large amounts don't oversupply regional market. Check in history tab, in market window, amounts that are sold daily. Try to manufacture batches that will sell with current trade volumes in next 1-2 days until you get feel for demand and competition. Move to another region and supply them with that item in same manner. Soon you will see how often and in how big batches you need to produce that item. - Use haulers for rent AKA courier contracts and calculate price of hauling in final price.
EXAMPLES OF PROFITABLE ITEMS:
"Small" stuff Sentry drones EWAR drones XL ammo Mobile warp destruptors Warfare Link modules Command Processor Cynosural Field Generator Covert Cynosural Field Generator Interdiction Sphere Launcher Warp Disrupt Probe ...
"Big" stuff Starbase & Sovereignty Structures Player owned custom offices Fighters and Fighter bombers XL guns ...
"Bad" stuff Ships are bad items for fresh solo producer. There are few issues/details about ship production. 1.Small volume can be produced per day per production line Battle ships (BS) - 6 per day. Cruiser (C) - 9 per day. Frigates (F) - 18 per day. (x1.25 with researched P.E.) 2.BPO prices For anything bigger then frigate use researched BPCs (10run researched copies for BS cost 10mil or less so that's <1mil extra to count in per battleship). Only when you have production going for some time and specific ship sells well you should invest in BPO and get it researched. 3.Materials Cheapest BS requires 400000m3 per day per production line AND that climbs to 3x the amount for the best BS. Imagine how much you would have to move when running 10 production lines which are optimal number per character. So if you really want to produce ships, pair with mining corporation for good supply. 4.Manufacturing location <-> sale location Bigger the product, more time and money you will spend moving it around.
Make ISK and enjoy EVE! |
Ira Infernus
Praetorium Illegitimus The.Alliance
14
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Posted - 2012.04.19 16:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nice guide.
I struggled to get my indy toon up to making isk, and by the time I was breaking even I still had yet to realize alot of the stuff you said. Its going good now, although I dont do everything you stated, although never the less, all of the suggestions in your guide will increase a nubs production profits. |
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
64
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Posted - 2012.04.19 17:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
So basically you buy low(components) and sell high(end product). This can give you 100 mill/month profit from trading and -20 mill/month for Taxes -10 mill/month for production profit = 70 mill/month profit per slot.
Some T1 items also give a positive production profit. The T1 profits seem to be heavily dependent on the markets prices. Some items are better to be traded than manufactured for profit.
Because of the heavy market influence it is alway good to have more than 1 Blueprint per slot available to adapt to any market turbulence.
Thank you @Aluka 7th for getting all the important details in one post.
Blog |-áTutorials | Youtube "I donGÇÖt know everything, I just know what I know." |
Aluka 7th
Viziam Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2012.04.19 20:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tnx guys, I should add some info regarding trading which is crucial part of manufacturing.
When you buy cheap materials, manufacture and then sell product in some other hub with best (highest sale) price you are basically collecting trade profit because you are in a way moving raw materials from one location two other and you also add manufacturing profit. Manufacturing and trading are closely tied together.
CASE STUDY Lets say that I build a XL pulse laser On location A materials for that laser cost 20mil, and laser itself costs 35mil On location B materials cost 30mil, and laser itself costs 40mil
If I only trade from A to B, I would earn 10mil from material resale (30-20) and 5mil from laser resale (40-35) Which would net me 15mil profit and I had to move 8000+m3.
By manufacturing from materials bought on location A for 20mil, I produce laser worth 40mil in location B and sell it there and also resell the 35mil one from A to B. Which nets me 25mil profit and again I had to move 8000m3 (laser i made and laser I'm reselling). Here trade profit is again 15mil but I get additional 10mil from manufacturing.
Manufacturing is here just to boost your profit and complement the traders lifestyle. Also in example note that manufacturing profit was only 10mil not 20 as you would think on first glance. You could think that just because you bought materials for 20mil and sold finished product for 40 that all 20mil is manufacturing profit? NO, only 10mil. If you grasp that then you will not have hidden costs and unprofitable production. Sometimes its more profitable just to resell materials then manufacture anything.
Every manufacturer is firstly trader and when opportunity present itself his manufacturing lines can get you additional profit. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing
250
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Posted - 2012.04.19 20:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Good post. I really wish we had a good FAQ for industry since a lot of the posts are the same. This one really answers the 'new industry character, what is profitable?'
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Skorpynekomimi
Omega Vector
174
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Posted - 2012.04.19 21:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Why is margin trading required for selling items? |
Aluka 7th
Viziam Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2012.04.19 21:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Margin trading is not skill for sale, you are right, but its awesome skill when you buy raw materials or items for resale. |
Wintermute Cnom
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.20 02:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Very useful info!
I'm planning to make my mining alt to do some manufacturing/trading too and this provided me with good info to start with.
I was thinking if it would be more profitable to outright mine and sell the minerals, than to engage in manufacturing and trading it? My alt is currently a few weeks away from piloting a Hulk |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing
250
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Posted - 2012.04.20 03:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
All depends on skills and refining. Usually you won't be able to mine all the minerals you need anyway.
I would just use the program in my sig. Find out what you can sell for, enter the prices manually and then use those to compare the items you want to build. If it's not getting profit, sell the minerals. If you get profit, build away. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Heun zero
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2012.04.20 09:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
A very good guide! with a bit of (bad) luck you have just increased your own competition
2 minor additions I'd like to make:
1 since this is a guide for new players I think it's worth mentioning that minerals you mine are not free. I know that it's implied in th thread but it can never be said to often.
2 I've found that very good starter items are often consumables such as ammo. These are in constant demand because they constantly get used up |
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Aluka 7th
Viziam Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2012.04.20 10:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
IMHO missiles, projectile and hybrid ammo are already too cheap because they are outlet for miners + everyone and his grandmother produces ammo. I guess M and L laser crystals are ok and also 400 and 800 booster charges as well.
Problem is in fact that miners convert part of their mining supply to dirty cheap ammo so they can sell more minerals overall. Also mission runners often buy ammo BPO to build their own ammo from their melted loot and they also sell excess supply on local market. There is more money in trading ammo if you buy in trade hub -> sell in mission hub or even better near new incursion site. |
Jastra
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
73
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Posted - 2012.04.20 10:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aluka 7th wrote:IMHO missiles, projectile and hybrid ammo are already too cheap because they are outlet for miners + everyone and his grandmother produces ammo. I guess M and L laser crystals are ok and also 400 and 800 booster charges as well.
Problem is in fact that miners convert part of their mining supply to dirty cheap ammo so they can sell more minerals overall. Also mission runners often buy ammo BPO to build their own ammo from their melted loot and they also sell excess supply on local market. There is more money in trading ammo if you buy in trade hub -> sell in mission hub or even better near new incursion site.
P.S. I have added more stuff to the list of first post which are better than ammo.
part of the problem is I bet (and I have done this as well) when a noob asks what to make most people will say ammo as the BPOs are cheap, low skills, ready market, etc, but yeah I was surprised to see the other night doing some checking most ammo is sold at a loss in a hub
Good Post !
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Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
924
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Posted - 2012.04.20 11:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aluka 7th wrote:Minimum for production
Production efficiency 4
NOT SURE IF SRS
get that skill to 5 THEN you can start to build stuff My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
clixor
Celluloid Gurus
3
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Posted - 2012.04.20 11:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Only way to make a profit is sell with profit.
That sounds obvious but just don't lower your price that fast when somebody is undercutting you. If not set at a unrealistic price (say you maintain market average) it WILL sell, probably the next day, perhaps in a few days.
As an added bonus you won't spend extra manhours to watch the market and adjusting orders.
If this method fails for you than the either 1) other players work more efficiently and you should look into adjusting, or 2) the market is saturated and you should move on to another product.
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Aluka 7th
Viziam Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2012.04.20 11:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Aluka 7th wrote:Minimum for production
Production efficiency 4
NOT SURE IF SRS get that skill to 5 THEN you can start to build stuff
You can start manufacturing of some items with that skill at level 4. Having that skill at level 4 means that you will need 7% more minerals when you build comparing to level 5, which in case you are manufacturing/selling items with >50% margin, that some items on my list have, it is not crucial. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
924
|
Posted - 2012.04.20 11:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
meh, i wouldnt recommend anyone tries to sell on the market without Production Efficiency 5
You'll end up selling your items for less than it cost you to build it My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Suni Khan
Trojan Manufacture LTD State Of Union Alliance
5
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Posted - 2012.04.20 12:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:meh, i wouldnt recommend anyone tries to sell on the market without Production Efficiency 5
You'll end up selling your items for less than it cost you to build it
If the item nets no profit with production efficiency 4 it is not worth the hassle at production efficiency 5. to low margin to make a decent profit even at 5 then. |
Beliandra
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 06:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:meh, i wouldnt recommend anyone tries to sell on the market without Production Efficiency 5
You'll end up selling your items for less than it cost you to build it If you're a complete beginner and want to get a feel for manufacturing to see if it is fun or not, you can make a profit with Production Efficiency 0 if you avoid the hubs and do business out in the sticks. There's really no need for a beginner to spend a couple of weeks training Production Efficiency 5 only to discover that they don't actually find a manufacturing career enjoyable. |
Aluka 7th
Viziam Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2012.04.25 16:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Additional profitable items ("Small" stuff): ... 11. Remote hull repair system of sub-capital sizes - very profitable, those are used a lot for repairing damaged POS mods. 12. Drone nav. computer 13. Drone link aug. ... |
Styth spiting
Ion Corp.
26
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Posted - 2012.04.26 00:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aluka 7th wrote:GET GOOD SKILLS
Minimum for production Industry 3 Mass production 4 Production efficiency 4 Supply chain management 3 Minimum to buy materials and sell the product cost/time efficiently Trade 4 Accounting 3 Broker relations 3 Daytrading 3 Marketing 3 Margin trading 3 Visibility 2 Procurement 3
IMO Production efficiency V is an absolute needed skill prior to manufacturing any items other than manufacturing for personal use. That 5% extra waste in minerals is pretty much the base of all your profits ecpecially for T1 items, more so when selling in market hubs. Now if you're planning on making your profit based on selling items at an inflated price in regions / systems where the product is scarce than it shouldn't be much of an issue, but than again you're better off not manufacturing and simply buying low and selling high.
Get production Efficency to level V. Start up all your manufacturing runs. While these are manufacturing all your items use the extra days to train up all the additional skills listed. By the time the jobs are done nearly all your skills listed above would be trained, and than start selling.
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Aluka 7th
Viziam Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2012.04.26 15:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Styth spiting wrote:Aluka 7th wrote:GET GOOD SKILLS
Minimum for production Industry 3 Mass production 4 Production efficiency 4 Supply chain management 3 Minimum to buy materials and sell the product cost/time efficiently Trade 4 Accounting 3 Broker relations 3 Daytrading 3 Marketing 3 Margin trading 3 Visibility 2 Procurement 3
IMO Production efficiency V is an absolute needed skill prior to manufacturing any items other than manufacturing for personal use. That 5% extra waste in minerals is pretty much the base of all your profits ecpecially for T1 items, more so when selling in market hubs. Now if you're planning on making your profit based on selling items at an inflated price in regions / systems where the product is scarce than it shouldn't be much of an issue, but than again you're better off not manufacturing and simply buying low and selling high. Get production Efficency to level V. Start up all your manufacturing runs. While these are manufacturing all your items use the extra days to train up all the additional skills listed. By the time the jobs are done nearly all your skills listed above would be trained, and than start selling.
I really can't remember when difference between my sale price and manufacturing price was less then 10% (selling in main hubs and buying mats locally), most of the time its more than 100%. Lets take medium remote hull rep. system I've suggested: - Manufacturing cost 50-80k - Sale price 200-300k. Getting production eff. to level 5 is "nice to have" but saying it is absolute need before you even start manufacturing is Level 4 is more than enough to start with. |
Debiru
Flashpoint Industries
3
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Production Efficiency V, as said here already, is an absolute must for profitability.
I'd also add that, small items like ammunition and modules, can be adversly affected by usage tax on NPC stations, and can cut into profits when not built at a POS. (Also worth noting that many modules/ammo are not profitable unless built in very large quantities, which a POS' array's speed bonus is also useful.)
Biggest profits in t1 production is in rigs, ships, and items like fuel blocks. Focusing on the Dodixie market and choosing your products wisely can easily net a 15%+ Rate of Return in that area.
If there are any aspiring industrialists in Gallente space that are small and want to grow, EVEmail or convo me in-game and I can help you get set up and point you in the right direction of what to build.
The biggest thing to note with t1 production though, is simply going after high RoI goods is NOT the route to profit, as the last poster was saying. Profit comes not just from the biggest RoI you can achieve, but in how fast and reliably you can sell off your manufactured items. |
Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
90
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
I would point out, for the benefit of the new player, that if you are buying minerals (or any components), be sure to use buy orders. You will have to babysit those orders or the .01 isk'ers will ensure you never get the purchase. Also, don't be afraid to move minerals with courier contracts in appropriate situations.
Also, I've found that some items need not be sold in a trade hub at all. That's the knee-jerk reaction, but it's not always the most profitable option. For example, I can go to a mission system and sell common mission ships for several mil above hub prices. You can sell at far greater profit in lowsec (but there are a whole bunch of issues beside the fact that it is dangerous to undock there). Similarly, the border to lowsec is a great place to sell certain products. There are many other similar opportunities out there if you look for them. |
BKM Industries
Mercenaries 4 Hire
0
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Posted - 2012.04.27 20:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aluka 7th wrote: - Items with cheap BPO (buy BCP to test water if BPO costs more than 10mil).
I think ya mean "buy BPC".
Great guid for peps starting up nice work. A great LOTTO SITE |
JDTerry84
Irregular Warfare
0
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Posted - 2012.04.27 21:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
I am watching you BKM. |
Aluka 7th
Viziam Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2012.04.30 10:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
BKM Industries wrote:Aluka 7th wrote: - Items with cheap BPO (buy BCP to test water if BPO costs more than 10mil).
I think ya mean "buy BPC". Great guid for peps starting up nice work.
Yea, I meant BPC. Corrected. Older players take game too seriously and make it hard for new players, so hoping this will give boost to fresh player in right direction because at the end of the day I will eventually probably use something that new player manufactured.
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Pinstar Colton
New Lunar Republic Special Tactics Squadron
8
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Posted - 2012.04.30 14:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Has anyone had any luck selling items in sets? Such as manufacturing a T1 ship along with all the weapons/modules/drones/ammo that would make up a popular fit for it, then selling the whole thing via Contract? I don't make minerals. I just make ore 20% cooler. |
Aluka 7th
Viziam Amarr Empire
25
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Posted - 2012.05.01 05:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Pinstar Colton wrote:Has anyone had any luck selling items in sets? Such as manufacturing a T1 ship along with all the weapons/modules/drones/ammo that would make up a popular fit for it, then selling the whole thing via Contract?
That works where customer has limited demand (you can guess ship/set combination quite well) and there is no big competition. To put it short - lowsec hubs for factional warfare. |
Aluka 7th
27
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Posted - 2012.05.05 16:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Any additional thoughts?
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Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
0
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Posted - 2012.05.07 10:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
Production Effiency needs to be at level 5 always if you are planing on a manufacturing careeer.
No point doing any kind of production with out it.
Invest in originals prints and have them on ME10 a minimum. This does not apply to all prints but to majority of blueprints in the game. |
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