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Hortense Sledgemallet
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2012.05.03 12:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
Brom MkLeith wrote:Cardano Firesnake wrote:It is true that the real problem is the T2 Barges. Just adding more Shield, Armor and Hull hit points could be an enough solution. It would only change the time needed to destroy them without any other option. Or perharps adding a med slot and enough CPU/Powergrid to fit a large shield extender... This option could though open other options that are unpredictable. Exactly. It's entirely too easy to gank the T2 Exhumers as it is, especially thanks to the Hybrid buff. CCP has done a great job making high sec ganking into a childs game.
Let's give them some defense not immunity. NEVER make high sec 100% safe, for anyone. But at least make it a challenge again. Make a gank mean something.
Exactly! |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
139
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Posted - 2012.05.03 13:13:00 -
[32] - Quote
Yeah, all the industrial ships should have a lot of structure. Maybe less armor and shield than they do now, but more raw HP than now from structure.
The ones designated as "tanky" should either have resists or a bonus to hull repper speed :) |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
601
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Posted - 2012.05.03 16:14:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ahh, this ****thread again.
No, you will not get a better tank for Industrial ships. Why? Because they are INDUSTRIAL ships. They are designed to have enough tank to fend of belt rats, not fend off ships designed for combat operations.
So you saying a destroyer-class hull, or a battlecruiser-class hull shouldn't be able to gank your Hulk is downright absurd.
If you don't want to be ganked while mining, I have a solution for you. Stop mining.
If that isn't enough: - Give me your stuff - Insert toon into Biomass queue over
"War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Maximilian Jenious
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.05.03 18:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
hi,
I don't understand how outlaw can go trought gate without probleme. With drugs and other illegal stuff you have problem and not as an outlaw?
High sec must be inaccessible for one personne who shoot an another in high sec.
Low / null sec would be his sentense, so that he can kill (and be killed that's the point) who he want.
++ |
Velicitia
Open Designs
916
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Posted - 2012.05.03 18:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
Maximilian Jenious wrote: High sec must be inaccessible for one personne who shoot an another in high sec.
Absolutely not. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
283
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Posted - 2012.05.03 20:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Liam Mirren wrote:You're not getting answers as people simply don't see it that way, the active people that is.
A hulk is a mining ship, it CAN tank 0.0 belts if fitted for it, it can reach 25k EHP just fine on its own while still having one MLU (close to 29K EHP when using an orca with mining mindlink). It's sturdy enough to do mining but it's ofcourse not sturdy enough to survive a full-on attack but then, if a solo industrial ships gets attacked it SHOULD be in trouble.
Just like WCS is a last resort kind of thing when you get pointed (avoiding being pointed is your best defense) a Hulk's EHP is the same thing; a last resort for when everything else didn't work out. In many cases WCS doesn't work and that's as it should be; why would a single mod or stat make up for a chain of events that all went wrong? In case of being pointed you can use scouts, being aligned, MWD/cloak, you can have the firepower from friendlies to take care of the attacker or you can have so much firepower on the field they won't even DARE to attack. That is all effort but it's the EFFORT that ensures the safety, just as in 0.0 the effort of policing your space and defending your borders ensures a form of safety.
Now we come to hulks, lets be honest; what do most miners do? They don't do ****! They're clueless on the game, never bothered to learn a tiny bit on game mechanics, they don't talk, they don't pay attention, they don't check their Dscanner, they don't bring some military force to secure their assets and above else, they refuse to refit their hulk away from max mining efficiency. Effectively they're like an autistic kid that can only do one thing and fully focus on it completely forgetting everything around him. There's so many things miners can do to protect themselves it's silly but it all takes effort and then they'll have to learn stuff and perhaps (gasp) have to pay attention)!
So no, many of us don't agree with you because all you need is already in the game, it's just that the vast majority of Hulk pilots can't be bothered to make that happen.
amen
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Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc STORM.
19
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Posted - 2012.05.03 21:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:Ahh, this ****thread again. No, you will not get a better tank for Industrial ships. Why? Because they are INDUSTRIAL ships. They are designed to have enough tank to fend of belt rats, not fend off ships designed for combat operations. So you saying a destroyer-class hull, or a battlecruiser-class hull shouldn't be able to gank your Hulk is downright absurd. If you don't want to be ganked while mining, I have a solution for you. Stop mining. If that isn't enough: - Give me your stuff - Insert toon into Biomass queue over
Ahh, this ****kind of response again. No....it's not absurd to ask that your job as a ganker be made more difficult. You've been given everything you need to tell other people how to play a game that shouldn't bother you in the least. And yet you get upset when people make a reasonable suggestion about balance.
Hardly any people in this thread has advocated "UNGANKABLE" ships, so pay attention boy. Pony up 100mil ISK again to be able to gank a 200mil ISK ship. Those odds aren't good enough for you? If you have not played both sides then Quitcher bitchin and don't waste your time or ours by replying to these threads. If you have played both sides and still advocate quitting mining then you have rolled over and given the douchebags what they wanted. That kind of play is narrow minded and will cause the stagnation of the player base in this game.
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Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
283
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Posted - 2012.05.03 21:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
^ It already IS difficult unless your target is RE-TARDED.
Thankfully, a lot of EVE players (and the majority of highsec players) are just that.
Take this from someone who HAS PLAYED BOTH SIDES AHHHHHH! |
Maximilian Jenious
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.05.03 21:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Maximilian Jenious wrote: High sec must be inaccessible for one personne who shoot an another in high sec.
Absolutely not.
I love you argument ah ah, absolutely inutile answer
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Im Super Gay
Hedion University Amarr Empire
45
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Posted - 2012.05.03 22:37:00 -
[40] - Quote
Maximilian Jenious wrote:Velicitia wrote:Maximilian Jenious wrote: High sec must be inaccessible for one personne who shoot an another in high sec.
Absolutely not. I love you argument ah ah, absolutely inutile answer Go back to wow. In eve, you are never supposed to be 100% safe anywhere undocked. |
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Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
918
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Posted - 2012.05.03 22:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:I would be fine buffing industrial ships tanks if you were willing to accept a considerable cargo hold / mining yield penalty for being in an NPC corp.
Suicide ganking and war decs are the only two valid tactics for attacking both types of ships in high sec, one is ridiculously easy to avoid. The other is, well, its still pretty easy to avoid.
What some people seem to want is to invalidate both methods of attack, whilst not receiving any penalty themselves. I might even be fine with that, if you are willing to accept high sec being nerfed so far into the ground that the only people to whom it is genuinely worth mining/care bearing there are genuine new players.
Currently high sec is used by risk averse older players who simply wish to avoid actually playing the game at any cost, you wish to take part in building ships yet are not willing to lose them and contribute to demand yourselves. You wish to supply low end minerals and modules for large corporations and alliances, but will not join them or seek their protection in leaving high sec.
Quite simply you are what is wrong with Eve. This kind of mentality is the reason mudflation almost always occurs within care bear friendly games, and you need to start dying more often.
Anyway, HTFU and get used to it, because judging from recent interviews and dev blogs it looks like CCP agree with me. NPC corpo should take a percentage on all what you sell. The other problem is Ghost Corpos of 1 to 3 characters... I already post about this problem. But the solution is complex. That is a nice idea, but as you said it would be complex to set up without allowing for giant loop holes. Just the simple work around of using an alt to sell everything would completely invalidate it.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
603
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Posted - 2012.05.04 05:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
Maximilian Jenious wrote:hi,
I don't understand how outlaw can go trought gate without probleme. With drugs and other illegal stuff you have problem and not as an outlaw?
High sec must be inaccessible for one personne who shoot an another in high sec.
Low / null sec would be his sentense, so that he can kill (and be killed that's the point) who he want.
++
No you ignorant twit.
You don't have it easy, as people shoot at you as an outlaw, just for entering a system. So tell me how that isn't a problem?
Find somewhere else to cry that people might listen to you, like in group therapy for carebears who were violenced by big, scary pirates. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Cardano Firesnake
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
20
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Posted - 2012.05.04 07:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
Maximilian Jenious wrote:Velicitia wrote:Maximilian Jenious wrote: High sec must be inaccessible for one personne who shoot an another in high sec.
Absolutely not. I love you argument ah ah, absolutely inutile answer
Welcome to the sandbox. Here everything must be possible. Of course being an outlaw must be a difficult and ambushed way but with big rewards. And one of them seems to be all the tears of the carebears ;-)
But being a bad guy must have consequences. If not, that would have no sense. |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.05.04 09:05:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:Instead of making ganking impossible in Highsec, why not giving a better tank to industrial ships ?
The answer is simple:
Cardano Firesnake wrote:Concord could arrive in time. |
Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc STORM.
20
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Posted - 2012.05.04 15:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
Colonel Xaven wrote:Cardano Firesnake wrote:Instead of making ganking impossible in Highsec, why not giving a better tank to industrial ships ?
The answer is simple: Cardano Firesnake wrote:Concord could arrive in time.
False. The gankers would just have to spend more ISK to succeed. If someone wants to gank you and doesn't care about the consequences then nothing will save you.
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Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc STORM.
21
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Posted - 2012.05.04 15:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:I would be fine buffing industrial ships tanks if you were willing to accept a considerable cargo hold / mining yield penalty for being in an NPC corp.
Too difficult to implement. But exorbitant fees on buying, selling and higher taxes could be implemented as a way to push more people out of the NPC corps. And yes there will always be loopholes but that's what "Continues to evolve" means. Find unbalancing loopholes and fix them.
Simi Kusoni wrote: Suicide ganking and war decs are the only two valid tactics for attacking both types of ships in high sec, one is ridiculously easy to avoid. The other is, well, its still pretty easy to avoid.
False. Suicide ganking is only easy to avoid by staying docked or playing some other part of this great game. War dicks are sort of easy to avoid but high sec gankers are ruining the whole idea of War Deccs. Inferno promises to bring more value to war than just high sec griefing. I hope this is true. I'm sick of seeing elite PVP corps randomly war **** other corps for no other reason than to pad their KB.
Simi Kusoni wrote: What some people seem to want is to invalidate both methods of attack, whilst not receiving any penalty themselves. I might even be fine with that, if you are willing to accept high sec being nerfed so far into the ground that the only people to whom it is genuinely worth mining/care bearing there are genuine new players.
False. Most of us don't want to "invalidate" any method of attack. Simply make it so you need a real reason for it besides to be a douchebag. Many high sec people don't want to deal with the constant null-sec politics and back stabbing. As it stands, Null sec seems to be full of douchebags. I said "Seems" before someone gets their panties in a wad. The cyber bully mentality needs to stop for this game to grow.
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Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc STORM.
21
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Posted - 2012.05.04 15:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote: Currently high sec is used by risk averse older players who simply wish to avoid actually playing the game at any cost, you wish to take part in building ships yet are not willing to lose them and contribute to demand yourselves. You wish to supply low end minerals and modules for large corporations and alliances, but will not join them or seek their protection in leaving high sec.
False. We wish to avoid dealing with douchebags. We love playing this game and do so every day. If you think that the only way to play this game is to run around blowing each other up then you are truly limited in your thinking. This game offers sooooo much for everyone. If you make being a high sec industrialist into some seriously gimped profession then we will all be reduced to paying cash for our PLEX so we can afford to PVP. Do you think that real world arms dealers build their weapons in the middle of the warzone they sell them in?
Simi Kusoni wrote: Quite simply you are what is wrong with Eve. This kind of mentality is the reason mudflation almost always occurs within care bear friendly games, and you need to start dying more often.
False. Narrow minded players who cling to the idea that everyone needs to PFP (Players F-ing Players) is what's wrong with this game. That mentality causes stagnation and gold buying by any other name.
Simi Kusoni wrote: Anyway, HTFU and get used to it, because judging from recent interviews and dev blogs it looks like CCP agree with me.
Then they need to eliminate ALL industrial play. Eliminate high sec all together and see what happens to their precious player base. I still have a hard time understanding how people foam at the mouth when they talk about other people making money without blowing other people up. I enjoy a "good" fight myself. I just don't want to sell PLEX or rely on the benevolence of an all powerful alliance to pay for my ships.
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hungrymanbreakfast
Xion Limited Primal Force
3
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Posted - 2012.05.04 16:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
Colonel Xaven wrote:Cardano Firesnake wrote:Instead of making ganking impossible in Highsec, why not giving a better tank to industrial ships ?
The answer is simple: Cardano Firesnake wrote:Concord could arrive in time.
Don't want concord to arrive in time. That would mean that the only ships people want to use is once again winmatar ships. Arty is one volley then death for the ganker and the gankee. Ganking needs to be a part of a game like this, but I just don't like the ratio of ISK invested vs lost. Its horribly unbalanced as 2 tornados firing one volley will take out the best tank a hulk can fit. thats 150 mil isk. A hulk costs 300 right now.
4000 hull points isnt gonna change much unless they stick a DCU2 onto the tank fit then it becomes 6400 hp. That makes a difference. Thats 3 nados to gank and means someone really wants you dead to find 3 pilots willing to hit you and lose their ships. I'm fine with that even if the ISK is still a bit lower because that's 3 ships. No dcu means thats 4000 unresisted points. Doesn't do much when it comes to an alpha strike. If were gonna bring more cheap glass cannons into the game like the tier 3's then we really should be looking at the expensive ships that have no tank and rebalancing them accordingly.
If we change the armor/shield balance or the slot layout the whole ship needs to be revisited and balanced. Thats alot of work and has the potential to really screw things up. The armor idea mentioned earlier has some potential though as it really does mean the stupid people will be fitting cargo and mlu's and dying in a fire when someone scans their fit. Also means that people wont be able to tank belt rats for any length of time before needing expensive armor repairs. |
Dark Router
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.05.11 22:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:Instead of making ganking impossible in Highsec, why not giving a better tank to industrial ships ? Concord could arrive in time. For example If the Hulk had an additional low slot and an additional med slot and 1000 HP more it would tank enough time with a damage controller and a large shield extender or an invulenerability shield... Of course some miners would add a Mining upgrade more instead of a damage controller but they would know that the loss is their fault...
In 0.0 The hulk would become an interestening bait also...
It is just an idea... But it would be easy for CCP to try things like that to balanced risk/gain.
Yes, thank you. Getting ganked in under 15 seconds by a ship that costs 1/10th of what yours does is lame. There is no challenge for the gankers any more and zero survivability for T2 mining ships. Mackinaws melt with barely a whiff of smoke.
Rather than extra slots, why not give their mining mods reduced CPU/PG cost based on Exhumers Skill? As they stand now, we can't even fill the mid slots we already have thanks to a gimped CPU/PG. I'm talking about Mackinaws BTW. Still an expensive T2 ship that build of rice paper.
Nobody is looking for immunity in High Sec. Just balance. Bring the cost up for the gankers and you will see better tactics and people can still take each other out because of grudges.
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