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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2009.01.29 16:46:00 -
[1]
It's a little known fact that there are actual EVE players who spend a good amount of time interacting with New Eden's NPCs, but many find that they lack challenge. With EVE Online: Apocrypha, we will be making a ton of changes to NPC AI. CCP Ytterbium's latest dev blog, "When Evolution Leaps Forward," gives details about the upcoming changes, including advanced AI capabilities and, more importantly, information about the new faction: Sleepers.
You can read all about it here.
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Gold Rogers
Brutal Seizure
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Posted - 2009.01.29 16:48:00 -
[2]
Cool, sounds interesting. |
Raymon James
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.01.29 16:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Raymon James on 29/01/2009 16:51:37 This is almost a non blog.
Seriously what MMO out their does not put in new AI and bigger fatter chests in the new rooms to get you to try the new content.
we kind of already knew most of this to be honest.
ok you did let it out that the sleepers were in this blog but overall its kind of meh. |
Demeterus
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.29 16:51:00 -
[4]
So, it wasn't the enheduanni. It was the sleepers. Interesting. :)
But no Jove :( |
Enthral
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Posted - 2009.01.29 16:52:00 -
[5]
Will the sleepers only be in W-space, or will they be making their way into K-space as well? Will we see missions against them from agents? Random spawns in belts?
-Enthral
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Polysynchronicity
Amarr MEK Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.29 16:54:00 -
[6]
First page. ;)
Battleships in low-sec? This is almost as epic as the wormhole blog. |
SpaceSlag
Gallente Advent Corpus
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Posted - 2009.01.29 16:55:00 -
[7]
I assume this means that belt guarding NPC's will not maintain aggro on a tanking BS or BC, therefore making mining ops much more difficult for a single person with 5 alts & a main?
Where's the love for ninja miners? |
Mr Grimmer
Caldari Infusion. PROBABLE CAUSE
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Posted - 2009.01.29 16:56:00 -
[8]
First Page in an Epic Thread!!!
This patch will be the best one ever |
Demeterus
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.29 16:56:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Demeterus on 29/01/2009 16:59:18 And officer spawns in K-space will use the new AI... Would you consider making the faction spawns like this too?
Edit: On second and third thought, PLEASE make faction spawns use the new AI. I would seriously gimp isk farming operations all over Eve because faction spawns are much more common than officer spawns. |
Valrandir
Gallente Blood Inquisition Legion of Honor
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Posted - 2009.01.29 16:56:00 -
[10]
Quite nice!
Looking forward to it!
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Agrilad
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:00:00 -
[11]
From Skill: "The Sleepers were masters of virtual reality, neural interfacing and cryotechnology."
Are y'all changing this description? |
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CCP Gangleri
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: SpaceSlag I assume this means that belt guarding NPC's will not maintain aggro on a tanking BS or BC, therefore making mining ops much more difficult for a single person with 5 alts & a main?
Where's the love for ninja miners?
This new AI will not be used on all NPCs. Sleepers will have improved AI and officer spawns will have some improvements as well but we are not doing a blanket change in the behaviour of all NPCs.
Mission NPCs and normal belt rats will stay the same for now. |
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Red 7
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:04:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Red 7 on 29/01/2009 17:04:15 No images? :S |
Winters Chill
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:04:00 -
[14]
The Sleepers:
Are they existing models reskinned?
Tech 3 parts placed in a certain order with a different skin?
Entirely new models?
(please be the last one ) |
Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:05:00 -
[15]
Will this new faction will have new ship models to go along with it? If so, can you guys give us a tiny peek at some concept art or early renderings?
Pweeeeeeeeease? |
Ki Tarra
Caldari Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:06:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Ki Tarra on 29/01/2009 17:11:14 New dev blog = Good!
Repeated statements to the effect of "left to be explained in another Dev Blog" = Bad!
Summery of actual content in Dev Blog:
- Battleship NPC will be added to low sec.
- Wormhole NPC's will be classed as "Sleepers"
- Sleepers will have player like attributes
- More "intelligent" AI for target selection from Sleepers and Officers
Edit: for those who don't already know Sleeper Technology already exists in-game. It is currently a part of the Archaeology mini-profession. I expect there will be little connection between the current Sleeper Technology and the new Tech 3 stuff beyond expanding on the Sleeper prime fiction. |
Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:07:00 -
[17]
CCP, dev blogs are sort of supposed to give infos, not tease us to death. :p
Not much data on this one, and I'm a bit disappointed that it will affect only sleepers and officers for a while.
What kind of improved behavior? They're all going to web/warp scramble? Try to warp out when they get on structure? MOAR INFOS, DAMNIT! ^^ |
Zyck
KDS Navy
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:08:00 -
[18]
Mmmm, low sec battleships.
Pirates are going to have a blast with all the new low-sec ratters :D |
Marlona Sky
Caldari Astroglide X
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:11:00 -
[19]
Much needed boost for low sec. I hope for drone boats the AI changes that will come soon and later will not have the rats just auto go for drones no matter what. Good stuff coming reguardless.
/me puts seatbelt on |
Major Celine
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zyck Mmmm, low sec battleships.
Pirates are going to have a blast with all the new low-sec ratters :D
I really hope so and I really really hope 0.0 will get its part, too! |
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zacuis
Great Big Research
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:15:00 -
[21]
first page sweet |
Arthur Rage
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:15:00 -
[22]
So there are going to be BS rats in LowSec, does that mean that Destroyers/Cruisers may appear in HighSec belts ? |
Adam C
Caldari H A V O C
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:17:00 -
[23]
what the heck was that blog a primer?
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:21:00 -
[24]
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 29/01/2009 17:22:40 The Sleeper have entirely new models not based on Tech3 ships. Unfortunately we couldn't get you pretty pictures for the blog
We know delaying the information is quite frustrating, but since we are constantly iterating on the designs we do not want to give you erroneous or outdated data. More will follow which should quench your thirst a bit more.
Regarding the AI, we just can't release it on all existing NPCs without any kind of study and rebalancing, since it would create huge turmoil in all professions depending on them. That is why we are going to apply it on a cautious approach which will be deployed over time, as already explained. |
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Mahai Ano
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:21:00 -
[25]
So, as I gather, Officers and these new Sleepers will be lethal for droners, as will logically kill drones, then the player... or are drones immune to this aggro-threat-list?
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Kaahles
n0thing Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Mahai Ano So, as I gather, Officers and these new Sleepers will be lethal for droners, as will logically kill drones, then the player... or are drones immune to this aggro-threat-list?
My guess is, they would shoot on your drones if it's your main weapon (Ishtar anyone?) because that's exactly what I would do. ----------------------------- OMG THE SKY IS FALLING! Contract me all your stuff so I can save it! |
MuffinsRevenger
EmpiresMod
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:28:00 -
[27]
Nice news, going to be intresting :D
Just remind your "team awsome" not to be to naive with there design, theres a reason PVE-People usualy play solo :p |
Xessej
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:30:00 -
[28]
Just over 5 weeks to a major shake up of the Eve universe and we've got 3 blogs with "details." Two basically said wait for the actual details in another blog and the other was at best a general overview that raised more questions than it answered.
I know marketing guys will tell you that hype builds interest but we're already playing the game and deserve some solid details. Hand out the hype in interviews to the gaming websites not in dev blogs. |
Havus Mauth
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:30:00 -
[29]
Quote: Of course, the nature and type of these new spawns will be put into scale towards null and high-security space as we plan to even out rewards, not destabilize them further.
Is this english? Is there content in this sentance? I'm left with no idea whatsoever of what you intend. "Put into scale towards" is one of the more nebulous phrases I've heard.
I dont know what "destabilizing" rewards would be; it almost sounds like you think ratting is comparably too profitable in nullsec. Which is a freaking joke, because you can make 3x as much mission running in high sec in empire with zero risk. But again, trying to dis-entangle these perposterous turn of phrases the author opted for is somewhat difficult.
tl;dr: you're moving null sec into low sec, what are you doing to null sec. |
De Guantanamo
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:31:00 -
[30]
1. First Page 2. Low sec boost = hawt 3. Sleepers oh noes... |
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Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:34:00 -
[31]
So do these sleepers have anything to do with the minmatar cosmos ones?
Should I go ahead and buy the skillbook now? |
Zamolxiss
Amarr ROMANIA Renegades Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:34:00 -
[32]
Will this new faction come with the whole package!? as in, faction ships bp's, specific faction mods, implants!?
and yeah.. SEX! |
Polysynchronicity
Amarr MEK Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:34:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Havus Mauth
Quote: Of course, the nature and type of these new spawns will be put into scale towards null and high-security space as we plan to even out rewards, not destabilize them further.
tl;dr: you're moving null sec into low sec, what are you doing to null sec.
I think what he's saying is that they're scaling null sec to match. I.E. nullsec spawns will get bigger, harder and more profitable. |
Draconus Lofwyr
Gallente M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:35:00 -
[34]
will it just be sleepers? or will we see all 4 of the ancient races? if not, will the sleeper books be of any use? if so, this would cause an unfair shift twords those in the sleeper cosmos regions that have better access to those books and tech. I would like to see 4 regions of w-space that align twords the 4 ancient races in order to keep the balance and give everyone an equal footing. Will these new rats be dropping ancient loot and bpc's like what was spawned in the cosmos regions as well? possibly bringing the ancient tech prices down to worthwhile rates?
DL
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Havus Mauth
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:36:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Polysynchronicity I think what he's saying is that they're scaling null sec to match. I.E. nullsec spawns will get bigger, harder and more profitable.
I sincerely hope so, but the choice of wording is so nebulous I really cant tell.
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egegergergsdgedgege
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:38:00 -
[36]
Edited by: egegergergsdgedgege on 29/01/2009 17:38:54 Will Sleepers look like giant space whales? We all know that whales are inteligent!
Please give us space whales!!!
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Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:38:00 -
[37]
Sounds interesting - looking forward to attempting to take on these new smarter NPCs
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:38:00 -
[38]
When you say Officers....do you mean just named belt officers. Or do you mean all faction spawns and named overseers as well?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:41:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Rex Lashar So do these sleepers have anything to do with the minmatar cosmos ones?
Should I go ahead and buy the skillbook now?
please answer ,_,
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:44:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Rex Lashar
Originally by: Rex Lashar So do these sleepers have anything to do with the minmatar cosmos ones?
Should I go ahead and buy the skillbook now?
please answer ,_,
Are you bold enough to risk some isk on a speculation?
If you buy now and you need it, you will save tons of money. But if you buy now and don't need it, it is wasted money. So ... as always, up to you!
And woooooooooooot! New devblog!
Great stuff. Any chance for that new AI to appear in high-sec also, in cruisers maybe?
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Havus Mauth
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:45:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Gnulpie Any chance for that new AI to appear in high-sec also, in cruisers maybe?
The blog mentioned that they were slowly going to roll out the new AI.
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:46:00 -
[42]
Quote: Team Epic's first goal was to restore balance throughout the known regions of New Eden by spreading NPCs where they were direly needed.
Yaaay sheit 0.0 and well ubersheit low sec boost. I wunderz how...
Quote: As such, with the expansion arrival, expect various pirate battleships to arrive into low-security areas to ambush the unprepared pilots.
OH... well good job at nerfing low sec mining EVEN MORE.
Quote: Last but not least, we are further improving NPCs by assigning advanced AI capabilities to them.
Technically not true.. I've read the AI thread... you guys gave up on ADVANCED AI. Went with reactive AI. Which is equivalent to what? Around 1999 actually. So good job at advancing ai to about a decade old ai.
Quote: At first, only Sleepers and existing Officer spawns will receive such improved behavior and no other changes will be made to existing PvE interactions.
That's good because the moment you nerf level 4 missions to where solo people cant run them consistently.
People with alts keep running them; and isk deflates EPICALLY. Making those alt runners UBER rich. As opposed to slightly richer then those who dont. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:47:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Rex Lashar
Originally by: Rex Lashar So do these sleepers have anything to do with the minmatar cosmos ones?
Should I go ahead and buy the skillbook now?
please answer ,_,
Are you bold enough to risk some isk on a speculation?
If you buy now and you need it, you will save tons of money. But if you buy now and don't need it, it is wasted money. So ... as always, up to you
Sure I am, had a few bil ready to go but no chars in Minmatar space. Someone beat me to the punch ;_;
Still got one for cheap though!
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Ordix
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:51:00 -
[44]
I'm guessing NPC's will pick targets rather then all staying aggroed on one target. Taking down your logistics for example to leave your tanked raven to take the epic damage.
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Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:57:00 -
[45]
Some dev somewhere (awesome source :-D) said that they are basically implementing an aggro system - both damage and repping will cause threat, and the highest threat will be attacked.
Would be nice if the NPCs also included some kind of "killability" into that, so a ship that is easy to kill is higher on the threat list. Would allow the "tank ship" to fake going down by letting the tank drop low, and thus keeping the NPCs on him, and then boost up again. Together with a certain level of aggro you have to get more than the current target and some per-ship threat level, that would make things very similar to PvP.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:01:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
OH... well good job at nerfing low sec mining EVEN MORE.
It's true, being able to make more money in lowsec is a HUGE nerf. You my dear alt, are a genius.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:06:00 -
[47]
Sleepers!? \o/
Eve Radio - Playing Music To The Masses! |
Letrange
Minmatar Mobile Alcohol Processing Units United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:06:00 -
[48]
Quick question relating to "NPC AI on existing rats will be improved cautiously". Is this going to be like FW where "FW rewards will be phased in at a later date"? It seems that you guys have stopped any development on any FW related issues. Meaning we're going to be left with a system that gives the impression of being half finished as CCP moves on to the latest shiny 6 months down the road.
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Ki Tarra
Caldari Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:10:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Ki Tarra on 29/01/2009 18:13:32
Originally by: Mahai Ano So, as I gather, Officers and these new Sleepers will be lethal for droners, as will logically kill drones, then the player... or are drones immune to this aggro-threat-list?
Something to also remember is that Officers and likely Sleepers don't come in the huge swarms that most NPC's come in.
It is more like a PvP engagement where the number of NPC's approxamately matches the number of players.
The problems with current NPC's in missions for example targetting drones do not apply.
This is more like a PvP engagement where another player might choose to target the drones before the player.
I am more concerned about their target selection making them too easy to kill rather than too hard: if you are fighting Battleship vs Battleship, and the NPC switchs to the drones once it sees that the drones are doing more damage, you won't even need a tank as a battleship is going to have no chance of hitting drones once they are orbiting.
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london
Gallente KDS Navy
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:10:00 -
[50]
"we are unleashing an ancient race into the universe: the infamous Sleepers"
These better be human (or cylon!), or there will be hell to pay if these are some Star Trek "we have bumps on our foreheads" alien types.
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Komen
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:14:00 -
[51]
The sleepers (will) have awoken!
Can't believe no-one's put that in here yet.
Little info I didn't already know (sleepers were the only new bit) but a scheduled, slow, steady release of new(er) AI sounds like a good thing.
And now, my sig:
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Asharis Fyn
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:14:00 -
[52]
Thank you for the low-sec battleships CCP! You guys are awesome! Oh, and the Sleepers too. That's also nice.
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ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:16:00 -
[53]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Mission NPCs and normal belt rats will stay the same for now.
please reconsider |
Ki Tarra
Caldari Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:22:00 -
[54]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Mission NPCs and normal belt rats will stay the same for now.
please reconsider
As they have already said, they will reconsider, but not until they have a chance to see how the players deal with the new AI's, so that when they apply them to normal mission and belt rats they can do it right. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:24:00 -
[55]
About damned time. |
Bonny Lee
Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:26:00 -
[56]
Do you just fix Low-Sec Rats or do you adjust the bad 0.0 systems too? Will a 0.0 system with truesec 0.0 -> -0.4 be actually worth a little bit soon?
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Haakelen
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:27:00 -
[57]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Mission NPCs and normal belt rats will stay the same for now.
please reconsider
I suppose it makes me a bad person, but I hope they don't upgrade them period. I don't do missions and rat for the 'fun' of the AI, I do it for the money to do something that's actually interesting (PvP).
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Zoltar Torzoid
Gallente Shadow Company Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:28:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Zoltar Torzoid hmm, 40 pages, and I've yet to see anyone ask if the NPC's are gonna have bounties, or if the potential for gain is based solely on your ability to safely return to market. While I'd love to have bounty NPC's to shoot at, I can see situations where someone spends 6 months out in W-space ratting for bounties alone in a ship that doesn't have stringent ammo requirements (Any laser boat, Dominix with remote repper) while they train up 4-5 lvl 5 skills in near 100% peace aside from the very occasional exploratory fleet wandering through.
I also understand that the rats are to be more intelligent as well, behaving more like a PVP oponent. Does this also mean that more pvp modules will work against them? eg. Warp scram/disruptor, Dampers, tracking disruptor, energy neuts, and ECM jammers? It would stand to reason that if you are going to make them fight you like a pvp opponent, that they'd be susceptible to pvp tactics themselves. I believe most/all of this can be answered without divulging any "content" related info.
Also, if the rats are more like a pvp opponent than a standard rat, are we to see fewer rats in an engagement, with higher rewards (possible T2 loot?), with overall higher difficulty due to their inherent danger as a realistic pvp opponent?
Just a few questions I've had after reading through this novel. I'd also like to state that I'm probably gonna be one of the people vanishing into W-Space for as long as possible assuming I can earn isk, and not have to leave constantly. Otherwise, I intend to use my transport skills as wisely as possible. heh 10km3 Viator FTW.
oh yeah.. this is gonna be pure, unadulterated awesomeness.
-Zoltar
After reading thsi Blog, this is a better place for these questions than the wormhole comments. Anyone care to share some insight on them?
-Zoltar
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Mia Starflare
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:29:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Mia Starflare on 29/01/2009 18:30:14 So does the new ai mean that ewar (ecm/damps etc) as well as warp scram/disuptors will be effective against the npcs? What about neuts/nos, will they actually use cap or will they still have infinite cap reserves as they do currently?
Just curious as to how much like player ships they are becoming. Will the npc's attempt to warp away and repair if they get low armor/shields?
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Baudolino
Gallente Royal Crimson Lancers
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:31:00 -
[60]
This change is VERY long overdue..
upgrading AI slowly overtime is a bad idea- unless you actually can`t deliver the upgrade completely by the next expansion.
With the next expansion being what it is- it would be much better just doing the complete overhaul and let everyone figure out how to handle it for themselves. It will only take poeple two days to adapt to a new A. So unless the proplem is actually on CCPs end, it would be more interesting and probably better from a marketing standpoint (i.e. "eve online: most advanced AI in any game etc etc..) as well.
And besides..
This is very long overdue..
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Army of One
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:33:00 -
[61]
Sounds good - I give it a thumbs up, even if it's not as epic is the whole W space bit.
If you're adding low-end BS to low lowsec belts (which is the impression I got), are the noobs going to get some cruisers to chew on in 0.5?
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JimBob Leeroy
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:36:00 -
[62]
i have mixed feelings about the new AI. if they release it in the current mission rats, it will make the missions more fun and challenging. but it will reap hell on the market, all the arty,rails,cruise,and beams that are currently in use would be replaced by the shorter ranged high damage ones. this would kill those who have made there living of providing these mods.and the cost of the EW mods and short ranged weapons would go crazy. ew is not very good in missions because the number of rats shooting you slowing or stopping the damage of one would do little to help you, and short range weapons would waste time running to each of them not to mention the tank lose.
but if they do it later to all rats, i hope they don't give warning, as this will only make the market worse by those market ninja's, as i would bet that the cost of the sleeper tech. book is 3-10X the cost just before this blog.
it is nice to see they are going to balance the risk/reward by making low sec have better rats. since it is more risk there than most 0.0.and as always the grievers crying is fun too!
looks good sofar, keep up the good work! thanks
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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:37:00 -
[63]
This is what I want, I want the Sleepers to actually hunt people down in space. I mean actually "probe" people out, or whatever, and actually warp to them no matter they are in a system.
Can we please please have this?
Also, can we have capital ship sleepers? PLEASE! Thank you.
I cannot wait for these AIs to get introduced to all NPCs. That will put a serious dent in the isk farming and strip mining that has polluted this game. ----------------------------------------------------
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:48:00 -
[64]
Are sleepers partial to POS sieges? |
Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:51:00 -
[65]
why did you even bother write a lbog ?
yes we have new NPC AI which we already know about which will be explained in another blog
how about you dont write anything and give us that blog
can you actually give us proper blogs now ? wake me up when something like the last blog arrived that actually give us details >_> |
JimBob Leeroy
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:53:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Farrellus Cameron
I cannot wait for these AIs to get introduced to all NPCs. That will put a serious dent in the isk farming and strip mining that has polluted this game.
i have been a fan of economic balance of the game, just imagine if the grievers killed enough of the miners that some quit mining, others had to add ship cost to the min cost, then this drives up ship cost, so as pvp'ers could not afford to lose ships. so now they have to protect the lowly miners so that there industrialist can make ships they can afford.and the isk farmers hurt this, and in many ways so does concord. |
Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:56:00 -
[67]
You know as good as this new AI is, I hope your NPCs are actually going to warp scramble. Current ones don't do jack.
And I agree with the sentiment that upgrading normal AI slowly is lame. You're creating an artificial incentive for people to rush these new systems, if only because they're bored to tears of normal PVE content.
Add the better AI to lvl 5 missions, faction/officer spawns, and battleships. If you wanna keep BCs/cruisers dumb as hell for now, then go ahead. But high end PVE does not need silver spoon treatment. |
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:57:00 -
[68]
Some clarifications about the asteroid belt changes; as we plan to put battleship spawns in low-sec, we will make sure to adjust some null-sec spawns a bit to keep a logical risk/reward ratio. We don't want low-security space NPCs to become more profitable than null security ones.
We didn't consider any changes to high-security belt NPCs at the moment; having cruisers there is a possibility we need to debate, thanks for the feedback.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:58:00 -
[69]
Where's the Pirate Hulks mining my roids? |
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Draconus Lofwyr
Gallente M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.01.29 19:00:00 -
[70]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Some clarifications about the asteroid belt changes; as we plan to put battleship spawns in low-sec, we will make sure to adjust some null-sec spawns a bit to keep a logical risk/reward ratio. We don't want low-security space NPCs to become more profitable than null security ones.
We didn't consider any changes to high-security belt NPCs at the moment; having cruisers there is a possibility we need to debate, thanks for the feedback.
Is this a reference we may see NPC capital hotdrops in the -1.00 tru sec systems? "rat alert, we have a Dread Nyx in belt 12" possible Capital loot drops?
Faction capital gear?
DL |
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Galena Technetium
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Posted - 2009.01.29 19:09:00 -
[71]
While I am all for improved AI, this sounds to me like:
"FORCED GROUPING".
I don't want to see Eve Online go the way of FFXI where "after your newbie levels, you'll be required to group all the time if you want to do anything more than chat."
The lame pvp mechanics that exist in Eve (gotta have a small fast ship as a tackler, blah blah blah, rinse, repeat) are what need changing.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2009.01.29 19:20:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 29/01/2009 19:20:22
Originally by: Dev Blog
Last but not least, we are further improving NPCs by assigning advanced AI capabilities to them.
I guess this should read:
Last but not least, we are further improving NPCs by assigning AI capabilities to them.
You cannot assign advanced anything if the basic level does not exist ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.01.29 19:31:00 -
[73]
2 questions:
1. officer AI = also commander spawns (sentient, dread guri etc)? 2. boost officers anyone? atm they are as "good" as top tier NPC battleships (estamel like usurper) which is pretty sad |
adriaans
Amarr Ankaa.
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Posted - 2009.01.29 19:32:00 -
[74]
hahahaha i KNEW IT would be the sleepers (well i guessed but still :P)
low sec boost: AWSOME!!!!!!! (i live there :P) Proper AI in wormholes requiring pvp fits: Fantastic! :D
must...be...able...to....wait.... |
Uchukukan
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Posted - 2009.01.29 19:42:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Galena Technetium While I am all for improved AI, this sounds to me like:
"FORCED GROUPING".
I don't want to see Eve Online go the way of FFXI where "after your newbie levels, you'll be required to group all the time if you want to do anything more than chat."
The lame pvp mechanics that exist in Eve (gotta have a small fast ship as a tackler, blah blah blah, rinse, repeat) are what need changing.
This!
I don't want to see "LFG!" in local....
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2009.01.29 19:44:00 -
[76]
Chiming in here! Like the blog, but like a lot of the players in here, looking forward to Incognitos blog on AI.
I've been hanging out in the AI thread, and so have some idea what's been done with AI, but hope to find some surprises never-the-less. Hats, rabbits, you know the deal ...
I know a little bit about AI (ahum) and like I said in the AI thread, I think the partial deployment of the new AI at this time is a smart move. Even with the best QA and lots of testing, there will always be surprises when deploying something 'intelligent'. By starting out small, you have the chance to gain some experience, and rebalance where needed, without ruining the game experience for a lot of people.
On the other hand, also like I said in the AI thread, you're not really deploying AI here, even though it will be large improvement from what we had before (it almost has to be). I understand that for marketing reasons you'd want to call it AI, but for it to be true AI it has to make dynamic changes based on feedback from the environment, gradually improving its performance over time. Basically, it needs to learn. That's not what's being deployed right now, and understand perfectly well why that is. In your position, I would probably have done the same thing, given the relative lack of experience you have with AI in EVE, and the difficulties that would have to be overcome within the timespan available. So, for now, the static reactive AI is fine, but there's sure a lot of scope for more.
Having said that, I'm not too disappointed, as gleaned from the replies in the AI thread you've clearly gained a much better understanding of the underlying problems with introducing AI in EVE, and have put into place a number of procedures and ways to deploy AI, and I (and with me probably a lot of other players as well) have high hopes that you'll put all that knowledge gained to good use in later development iterations so that one day you'll be able to introduce true AI into EVE.
So, it does all sound very exciting, and I'm looking forward for Incognito to stop 'concealing' himself and publish his blog, and look forward to see in what direction you want to go with AI even beyond the next expansion. Good luck! -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Aranis Nax
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Posted - 2009.01.29 19:44:00 -
[77]
A question regarding NPCs: Has it been considered to reduce their number particularly in missions and other such locations? Reducing their numbers would reduce the number of wrecks that have to be looted(one of the most boring tasks for mission runners) and reduce the amount of activity in a mission(instead of having 40 ships shooting one ship it could be only 10-20). Finally to me it's highly unrealistic that a capsuleer's battlecruiser(in my case a Drake) is soo powerfull it can easily defeat 10 NPC BS while hardly breaking a sweat. Wouldn't make sense economically for the NPC factions to spend soo much on such weak ships if they could pour the same resources(or less even) into a single battlecruiser and a capsuleer pilot.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2009.01.29 19:50:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Kyra Felann on 29/01/2009 19:53:30 Very, very cool! I've been saying that NPCS needed AI for a while, because right now, they're little more than harvestable resources similar to asteroids (and not much smarter or more dangerous).
I understand why you're only giving a few NPC types improved AI for now, but I do hope that eventually all NPCs will get smarter and more dangerous. Making missions have fewer but smarter enemies is the way to go, IMO.
Also, I think there shoudn't be PvE combat fittings and PvP combat fittings. I think that PvE fights should be similar to PvP fights and that there should just be combat fittings that can handle either. So your comment that Sleepers will require PvP-ish fittings is a sign of a move in the right direction, also. |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.29 19:56:00 -
[79]
I wonder about the name "Sleepers".
We already have the Empire Cosmos Constellation, that have not have received love in the last years. In one of the Constellations "Sleeper" Artifacts can be found.
Are the Sleeper NPC related to these Artifacts and T3?
"Sleeper Technology Basic understanding of interfacing with Sleeper technology.
The Sleepers were masters of virtual reality, neural interfacing and cryotechnology.
Allows the rudimentary use of Sleeper components in the creation of advanced technology, even though the scientific theories behind them remain a mystery." |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:00:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Kaahles
Originally by: Mahai Ano So, as I gather, Officers and these new Sleepers will be lethal for droners, as will logically kill drones, then the player... or are drones immune to this aggro-threat-list?
My guess is, they would shoot on your drones if it's your main weapon (Ishtar anyone?) because that's exactly what I would do.
small ships will be attacked by drones and not by the main wapons of BS, so for them the drones will be the main threat. So they will kill them first.
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Narfas Deteis
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:03:00 -
[81]
Hmm. First, CCP practicaly removed soloing in PvP. Now, according to last dev blogs, they want to do same thing with exploration and PvE. I have mixed feelings about this. And don't say "that's multiplayer" and "bring corp mates". That's alt game and you know it. Good business plan, CCP.
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Jenna Malone
Caldari W-hat LLC
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:04:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Draconus Lofwyr Is this a reference we may see NPC capital hotdrops in the -1.00 tru sec systems? "rat alert, we have a Dread Nyx in belt 12" possible Capital loot drops?
...screwing anyone in favor of horizontal skill advancement out of 0.0 ratting...
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195thMoses
Gallente FW Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:08:00 -
[83]
tease |
AleRiperKilt
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:09:00 -
[84]
Will a sleeper dread fleet come reinforce my w-space POS? |
Mikal Drey
Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:15:00 -
[85]
hey hey
Was it by will alone that you set this dev blog in motion ? |
Mr Horizontal
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:18:00 -
[86]
New faction?
Does that mean we'll get new faction ships too?
Chairman | www.eve-bank.net |
Mikal Drey
Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:19:00 -
[87]
Will there be 4x racial varients of "sleepers"
Matari - Sleepers Gallente's - Yang Jungians Amarr - gheylordhoodiesians Caldari - Takmahl or Talocan (sorry i dont know which is which)
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:22:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/01/2009 20:25:16
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Jason Edwards
OH... well good job at nerfing low sec mining EVEN MORE.
It's true, being able to make more money in lowsec is a HUGE nerf. You my dear alt, are a genius.
More isk ratting, but a mining ship isn't ratting.
Originally by: Letrange Quick question relating to "NPC AI on existing rats will be improved cautiously". Is this going to be like FW where "FW rewards will be phased in at a later date"? It seems that you guys have stopped any development on any FW related issues. Meaning we're going to be left with a system that gives the impression of being half finished as CCP moves on to the latest shiny 6 months down the road.
Look the Gallente Cosmos and you will have your reply.
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Narfas Deteis
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:25:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Mikal Drey Will there be 4x racial varients of "sleepers"
Matari - Sleepers Gallente's - Yang Jungians Amarr - gheylordhoodiesians Caldari - Takmahl or Talocan (sorry i dont know which is which)
Matar - Sleeper Gallente - Yang Jung Amarr - Takmahl Caldari - Talocan
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Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:29:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Rex Lashar on 29/01/2009 20:31:18
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Some clarifications about the asteroid belt changes; as we plan to put battleship spawns in low-sec, we will make sure to adjust some null-sec spawns a bit to keep a logical risk/reward ratio. We don't want low-security space NPCs to become more profitable than null security ones.
We didn't consider any changes to high-security belt NPCs at the moment; having cruisers there is a possibility we need to debate, thanks for the feedback.
Here's my feedback; how seriously you take it is up to you.
1. "mining with your guns" is a huge issue.
Recent meta gear refine nerfs helped, but hauler spawns and tech 1 BS loot serve as a significant source of minerals in 0.0. Would you please consider removing NPC haulers, and restrict NPCs to dropping meta variants only?
Even though I don't mine, I feel miners get marginalized by all these alternative mineral sources and that it renders capital production far easier than it really should be. A reduction in mineral output for standard NPC pirate factions is also warranted simply on the premise that we now have a wide scale deployment of Rogue Drones. For anyone who considers this necessary and important part of NPCing, they have the option.
2. Don't, under any circumstances, boost bounties.
Despite having POS, skill, market and other smaller isk sinks in the game, the amount of money coming into the system is higher than the amount going out. NPCs are the top contributor, followed by insurance system. 0.0 rewards do not need to be boosted, provided your lowsec BS spawns are not common.
If you don't heed this warning, at least consider removing all mission bounties to compensate. ISK rewards in missions should be controlled by the agent, making the social skills more useful and career mission running a viable profession. So instead of 1mil reward with 1mil time bonus it could be 5mil/5mil.
3. Static asteroid belts will die anyway, changing the risk/reward model.
Last I heard, all static content was eventually gonna be migrated to the dynamic distribution system (exploration) with crappy asteroid belts being easy to find with onboard scanner (a la Encounters). I hope that change eventually comes. If it does, a serious increase in rewards for lowsec and high sec is questionable and 0.0 completely unjustifiable.
Most of the risk in asteroid belt NPC hunting comes from the fact that a good player can pinpoint you in 30 seconds, far faster than the 1-2 hours it takes to find a mission site. Point is, don't boost rewards because the risks are higher now and then drop the risks later. That would effectively result in two boosts.
4. NPCs might be dumb, but at least they should warp scramble.
I am of the opinion, like many players here, that you shouldn't be so conservative in your new AI deployment. Most people would welcome it because it would result in a fun game. If people die because they presume to be able to do lvl 4's or BS spawns without help, they will quickly adapt.
But, even if you do NOTHING to traditional PVE content, please for the love of god reintroduce warp scrambling. Remember when battleships knew how to warp scramble? I do. Every frigate and cruiser should have a chance to warp scramble, and every tech 2 interceptor/hac NPC should always scramble. Close range pulse/blaster battleships should have a chance to scramble as well. |
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Marlona Sky
Caldari Astroglide X
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:31:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Chribba Where's the Pirate Hulks mining my roids?
Don't worry, we are coming out of warp now...
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:34:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Baudolino This change is VERY long overdue..
upgrading AI slowly overtime is a bad idea- unless you actually can`t deliver the upgrade completely by the next expansion.
With the next expansion being what it is- it would be much better just doing the complete overhaul and let everyone figure out how to handle it for themselves. It will only take poeple two days to adapt to a new A. So unless the proplem is actually on CCPs end, it would be more interesting and probably better from a marketing standpoint (i.e. "eve online: most advanced AI in any game etc etc..) as well.
And besides..
This is very long overdue..
It would require to change all the existing mission. Or in most of the level 4 missions the NPC would slaughter your drones in the first 3 minutes and then you will be locked there by the warp scrambling frigates till DT.
Try hitting a NPC frigate with a BS or cruiser gun when you are webbed at 6 m/s and they orbit you.
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Ha'Uler
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:36:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Baudolino This change is VERY long overdue..
upgrading AI slowly overtime is a bad idea- unless you actually can`t deliver the upgrade completely by the next expansion.
With the next expansion being what it is- it would be much better just doing the complete overhaul and let everyone figure out how to handle it for themselves. It will only take poeple two days to adapt to a new A. So unless the proplem is actually on CCPs end, it would be more interesting and probably better from a marketing standpoint (i.e. "eve online: most advanced AI in any game etc etc..) as well.
And besides..
This is very long overdue..
It would require to change all the existing mission. Or in most of the level 4 missions the NPC would slaughter your drones in the first 3 minutes and then you will be locked there by the warp scrambling frigates till DT.
Try hitting a NPC frigate with a BS or cruiser gun when you are webbed at 6 m/s and they orbit you.
Bring friends. |
permion
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:44:00 -
[94]
I wonder if the sleepers could control their ships "slowly" from cryostasis. You know like a really really slow dream. That kinda would make them totally worthy of their name. ____________
Although it's kinda sad that we finally get to meet another human race and our only goal is to kill it. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:50:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Ha'Uler
Bring friends.
You can like mandatory grouping, I don't.
You can have lots of player in your time zone, I don't.
You are a swarmer, I am not. |
Mahai Ano
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:51:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Ha'Uler
Originally by: Venkul Mul It would require to change all the existing mission. Or in most of the level 4 missions the NPC would slaughter your drones in the first 3 minutes and then you will be locked there by the warp scrambling frigates till DT.
Try hitting a NPC frigate with a BS or cruiser gun when you are webbed at 6 m/s and they orbit you.
Bring friends.
You mean Alts, right? Oh, and, drones become unusable. |
teji
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:58:00 -
[97]
Edited by: teji on 29/01/2009 20:59:02
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Some clarifications about the asteroid belt changes; as we plan to put battleship spawns in low-sec, we will make sure to adjust some null-sec spawns a bit to keep a logical risk/reward ratio. We don't want low-security space NPCs to become more profitable than null security ones.
We didn't consider any changes to high-security belt NPCs at the moment; having cruisers there is a possibility we need to debate, thanks for the feedback.
Does this come with a rebalancing of how officers spawn in 0.0 space? Or even a rebalance regarding what loot drops from each of the factions and the stats on said loot. |
Daelorn
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.29 21:01:00 -
[98]
Hrm... This whole sleeper thing remind anyone of Mass Effect? |
Solo Player
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Posted - 2009.01.29 21:18:00 -
[99]
New, improved AI sounds nice, but you keep insisting that you need smart gang setup and good gang coordination to remain successful when fighting them. Does that mean our days soloing rats and missions are numbered? Or that the new systems will be solo-unfriendly?
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.01.29 21:30:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Pottsey on 29/01/2009 21:30:42 Demeterus said "So, it wasn't the enheduanni. It was the sleepers. Interesting. :)" I still have hope the Enheduanni are involved as my theory is the 4 old races that vanished merged into the Enheduanni. See http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=734344&page=1#15 |
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Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.01.29 21:36:00 -
[101]
Sleepers, huh? I guess we now know (or can speculate) more about what it will take to build T3 ships. No coincidence that the ancient tech books are being bought up. |
Manfred Rickenbocker
The Elliance
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Posted - 2009.01.29 21:38:00 -
[102]
Any chance of seeing Yan Jung, Talocan, and Takmahl NPCs in addition to Sleepers to keep the race flavors around? |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.29 21:53:00 -
[103]
You said:
We want to offer our players true PvE challenge, requiring real team effort and proper gang coordination.
But what about solo players? Are you going to ensure that we have a way to participate in the new content in a meaningful way, or are you just going to ignore us and make all the T3/wormhole stuff require a gang, while we're stuck grinding more level 4s to buy it from other players who do have gangs? |
Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.29 22:11:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 29/01/2009 21:30:42 Demeterus said "So, it wasn't the enheduanni. It was the sleepers. Interesting. :)" I still have hope the Enheduanni are involved as my theory is the 4 old races that vanished merged into the Enheduanni. See http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=734344&page=1#15
If you're so interested in this stuff, one has to wonder why you spend more time speculating and theorizing and less time combing the back story. There's just barely enough information to figure out what they are. Your leap of logic is completely baseless. |
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2009.01.29 22:14:00 -
[105]
Not to beat a horse to death but please tell me there is still a place for solo players in this content? Or at least those who like to be self-sufficient. I wouldn't want to get too many corpmates involved in my suicidal wormhole exploration adventures. I'd really like to base my advancement using this system on my schedule, and not have to worry about other people's. |
Sri Nova
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Posted - 2009.01.29 22:39:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Gamer4liff Not to beat a horse to death but please tell me there is still a place for solo players in this content? Or at least those who like to be self-sufficient.--snip--
What you want to be able play eve solo ?? how dare you even mention the word this is a massively multiplayer if you solo you get pWned game.
these new changes are going to make it more necessary for you to buddy buddy up with a corp or else sit in high sec and look at all the stuff on the market/contracts you cant afford because all the uber iskies are to be had by those who gang up and can afford to take the risk.
how do i know this ? because i too play solo and dream about tech 2 battle ships and cool named loot but i know all ill ever be is a lowly salavager looking for the next trash heap hoping for a few more plates and bars so i can buy my next skill book ..
though i do hope the tech 3 ships will allow for a better solo experience . but dont get your hopes up.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.29 22:48:00 -
[107]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Some clarifications about the asteroid belt changes; as we plan to put battleship spawns in low-sec, we will make sure to adjust some null-sec spawns a bit to keep a logical risk/reward ratio. We don't want low-security space NPCs to become more profitable than null security ones.
We didn't consider any changes to high-security belt NPCs at the moment; having cruisers there is a possibility we need to debate, thanks for the feedback.
Why not have low-sec belts more profitable than 0.0? There isn't any less risk in a low-sec belt than there is in a 0.0 belt. In fact in many cases it's much *more* secure to rat in a 0.0 system where you have sov and an established intel network with scouts many jumps up the pipe.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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permion
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Posted - 2009.01.29 22:51:00 -
[108]
Edited by: permion on 29/01/2009 22:51:40 There's atleast 1500 systems. Each system will be geared completely differently. Some will be set up to make it easy for small ships, large ships, team, and solo.
There are a whole bunch of variables that the developers are greatly enjoying setting up. You can count of every play style being included, and can further count on there NOT being set ups where you can count on BBQWINOWN-ing any W-Space system. The developers are buffing the AI and even further setting systems up so you need to do a little bit of thinking+observing+whateverelse so you can truely tackle it effectively. None of that: I'm know I'm going to be fighting this faction so I fit these modules and BBQWINOWN no matter what.
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.01.29 22:53:00 -
[109]
I expect this will be like pretty much everything in EVE but missions and ratting -- there will be stuff you can do solo, you can do more if you have an alt, and you can do a lot with a gang. But keeping a gang coordinated in W-Space for more than a few hours (one gaming session) is going to be an enormous PITA.
Solo players will probably be quite limited in what they can accomplish, but at the same time, they'll have the luxury of patience. It's a trade-off.
Right now, based on what I'm seeing of the mechanics, I see a lot of potential for two or three people (or alts) who tend to game together anyway. One hauler (or ideally an Orca if you can get it in) and a few others in ships suitable for PvP and for whatever ratting, exploring, or mining you want to do. Get into a W-space system and camp there -- build safe spots, anchor loot cans, basically set up as much logistics as you can manage, and then start your ISK-making projects, with breaks for PvP when other people stumble into your system.
Eventually somebody will get podded or lose their last ship or decide to take loot home to Empire, and want to find you again. CCP won't make this easy, but I'm guessing it will be *possible* (with patience and effort) if there's somebody still "there" in your favorite W-space system who can at least provide info on the open wormholes in system.
It could be great for hermit and small-group play. But of course, whether that's how it turns out will depend enormously on tiny details of the wormhole mechanic -- how quickly they open and close, how often they spawn to various places, how easily they prove to be found by other players, et cetera. We'll just have to see. And I'm really looking forward to finding out. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Frug
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.29 22:54:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Frug on 29/01/2009 22:54:19 Will they stop using the old, long range, low DPS torps?
Will they get the new tier 2 battlecruisers and tier 3 battleships? - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
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CCP Gangleri
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.29 22:59:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Zoltar Torzoid
After reading thsi Blog, this is a better place for these questions than the wormhole comments. Anyone care to share some insight on them?
-Zoltar
A lot of the things you mention already exist in the current "AI" of the NPCs, they warp away sometimes (and you can scramble them) they are also susceptible to other forms of electronic warfare to some extent. What we have been doing is improving on that, with the goal of making PvE combat more like PvP.
Originally by: Aranis Nax
A question regarding NPCs: Has it been considered to reduce their number particularly in missions and other such locations? Reducing their numbers would reduce the number of wrecks that have to be looted(one of the most boring tasks for mission runners) and reduce the amount of activity in a mission(instead of having 40 ships shooting one ship it could be only 10-20). Finally to me it's highly unrealistic that a capsuleer's battlecruiser(in my case a Drake) is soo powerfull it can easily defeat 10 NPC BS while hardly breaking a sweat. Wouldn't make sense economically for the NPC factions to spend soo much on such weak ships if they could pour the same resources(or less even) into a single battlecruiser and a capsuleer pilot.
We will not be changing mission rats, mainly because mission dungeons are carefully designed and balanced environments. If we were to throw a wrench in there and just 'see what happens' with the thousands of different dungeons it would be a waste of time. Time we would rather spend on improving the tools behind the entire thing so that the level designers can use them to make more awesome stuff in the future.
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Not to beat a horse to death but please tell me there is still a place for solo players in this content? Or at least those who like to be self-sufficient. I wouldn't want to get too many corpmates involved in my suicidal wormhole exploration adventures. I'd really like to base my advancement using this system on my schedule, and not have to worry about other people's.
Some people solo lvl5 missions even though it is less profitable than doing lvl4 when measured in ISK per hour, those missions were never meant for solo play. But some people still do it. There simply comes a time when having more people is more efficient, and rightfully so, cooperation should be more efficient in most cases.
Our goal for the Sleepers was to make each encounter more like a PvP battle, so if you bring a solo BS against a gang of Sleepers you are going to lose, hard. Unless you are that good, guess we'll have to see. ------------------
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Komen
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.01.29 23:00:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Daelorn Hrm... This whole sleeper thing remind anyone of Mass Effect?
If I go through a wormhole and meet Sovereign, I'm going to: A) **** myself. B) Wonder what its resists are. C) Wonder how good the salvage is.
And now, my sig:
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Tesal
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Posted - 2009.01.29 23:00:00 -
[113]
Question 1: Is any of this content for casual players, or for players who want a relaxed lifestyle. Are we going to have to have fleets to kill NPC's now? For people who play EvE in one hour time blocks, this will make the game impossible to play if they have to spend an hour setting up a fleet.
Question 2: Is this a drone nerf? I trained drones and Gallente as my chosen weapon/race. If NPC's are going to slaughter my drones in wormhole space and I can't replace them without an insane logistics setup or a legion of supply alts that doesn't bode well for me to go into that space. We lost the myrm (yah, ok, I get that), then we lost blasters, and now we are going to lose drones too? Seems like Gallente can't PVP or NPC any more if this happens. Seems to me that wormholes are making much worse some balance issues.
Question 3: Will we be able to mine in wormholes without vicious NPC spawns killing everyone? Right now you can kill the rats until there is a weak spawn, draw aggro with a BS or a Drake and tank them while people mine. It seems like this will make mining impossible, with NPC rats killing all the miners. So how will we build ammo and replace drones in a wormhole then without being able to get the materials? And don't say mine in a BS, I would rather shoot myself. Are you going to boost the tank on the Hulk to compensate?
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Von Druid
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.29 23:07:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Tesal Question 1: Is any of this content for casual players, or for players who want a relaxed lifestyle. Are we going to have to have fleets to kill NPC's now? For people who play EvE in one hour time blocks, this will make the game impossible to play if they have to spend an hour setting up a fleet.
How will this make the whole game impossible to play for you? Not all content is meant for solo players in a massively multiplayer game, big surprise.
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Angel Featherhart
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Posted - 2009.01.29 23:15:00 -
[115]
i love this. "you are ruining eve!!!" every time something new comes out its ruining eve... guess what ur still playing if its ruined. as for "no more soloing missions and belts...ah nope. the new ai is only going to the sleepers and officer spawns. and a rebalance on low sec spawns. nothing about missions or anything, other than "we will phase in the ai sometime... maybe, sooner or later". tho i would like to see better ai on the rock rats myself.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.29 23:23:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Narfas Deteis Hmm. First, CCP practicaly removed soloing in PvP. Now, according to last dev blogs, they want to do same thing with exploration and PvE. I have mixed feelings about this. And don't say "that's multiplayer" and "bring corp mates". That's alt game and you know it. Good business plan, CCP.
This is what I'm afraid of.... I'm crazy enough to have 3 alts yet it's sounding more and more like that's not gonna be enough to do worm whole's solo. Meaning the only way to do worm whole's is to get a bunch of friends who are willing to go into the middle of no where with no idea when you can come out or even if you will get out and hope that the stuff you get is worth a lot (hell it might not even be worth much).
Hell I'm fine with having the high end exploration or worm wholes take groups or even small fleets, I love doing those with corp mates. But having to get a whole bunch of us together and stuck in one system since we can't ask them to fly 2 jumps over and join us is gonna get a bit squishy and unless we all take ratting alts we aren't gonna be able to jump back into the pvp very easily. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.29 23:26:00 -
[117]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri Our goal for the Sleepers was to make each encounter more like a PvP battle, so if you bring a solo BS against a gang of Sleepers you are going to lose, hard. Unless you are that good, guess we'll have to see.
In other words, if you don't have a corporation, you aren't welcome in the new content. Thanks for caring about all of your solo players, I'm sure we'll have lots of fun grinding highsec level 4s to pay someone else to get us some T3 stuff... |
Gane Green
Gallente Dominus Imperium
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Posted - 2009.01.29 23:26:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Gane Green on 29/01/2009 23:27:47 If CCP is trying to get the AI to be like pvp then they need to allow npc's to call for buddies till they outnumber you then they patrol the belts, or hot drop a carrier on top of your gang of 3 battleships.
Ill be ****ed the day that npc's play docking games on me, or dissapear because they logged off from space.
CCP I dont think you will get anywhere near the experience that lots of people run into in pvp. |
Vyktor Abyss
IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.29 23:35:00 -
[119]
Do you actually write these blogs nowadays or is it CCP EmbelishWithRelish from marketing?
Stick your chuffing WinSauce and stop blowing wind at us rather than speaking. Please. |
EveMap
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Posted - 2009.01.29 23:36:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: CCP Gangleri Our goal for the Sleepers was to make each encounter more like a PvP battle, so if you bring a solo BS against a gang of Sleepers you are going to lose, hard. Unless you are that good, guess we'll have to see.
In other words, if you don't have a corporation, you aren't welcome in the new content. Thanks for caring about all of your solo players, I'm sure we'll have lots of fun grinding highsec level 4s to pay someone else to get us some T3 stuff...
It's an MMORPG, don't blame the developers for making multiplayer focused components. |
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.01.29 23:43:00 -
[121]
I'm really not that concerned about wormhole NPCs being impossible to fight as a solo player. Some of them will be, but if the clever players of Eve can't find a way to ninja-rat, I'll eat my hat.
Sniping from extreme distance, speed tanking, kiting, warping away and warping back -- that's just the beginning of a long list of things to try. Some will fail miserably against the AI. Inevitably, some will "work" -- maybe not efficiently, but work nonetheless.
Will it be worth the time and effort? Ghu only knows. But it's not going to be completely sterile for solo players; nothing CCP has ever built has turned out like that. |
Katana Seiko
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.29 23:47:00 -
[122]
Only sleepers? Where's the Talocan, where's the Takmahl, where's the Yan Young? There werde four ancient races... They all deserve a comeback... |
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.01.29 23:50:00 -
[123]
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 29/01/2009 23:52:20 Bartholomeus Crane: We followed the AI thread with great interest as we value all feedback but as you said CCP Incognito is the main Dev you want to look for more details, which should be arriving in the future.
Rex Lashar: that's excellent feedback and we take it very seriously. Most if not all the points you list have and are considered on a constant basis. Again, I cannot unveil details here, but we know the implications of the NPC bounties/loot, and any belt change coming in the expansion is double-checked to make sure it remains reasonnable in your listed factors.
Concerning the solo concerns for W-space: we took into consideration all player styles during the Sleeper design process. That means soloing is possible for the easiest situations you will face, but as mentionned CCP Gangleri, it will be challenging to do so. For fighting against Sleepers ourselves, we can tell you not to expect the current "shoot and loot" approach toward existing NPCs.
On more difficult situations, a proper small/medium gang made of versatile ship classes and roles will be recommended. Again, depending player skill and experience, this can vary greatly as it may be possible to do so in less numbers, like the level5 mentionned example, but that falls into a question of how much efficient would it be to do that.
In all cases, remember that W-space remains an unknown, hazardous area and as such teaming up with other players even on situations meant to be solotable will increase your chances significantly. |
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Bonny Lee
Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.29 23:54:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Rex Lashar
Here's my feedback; how seriously you take it is up to you.
1. "mining with your guns" is a huge issue.
Recent meta gear refine nerfs helped, but hauler spawns and tech 1 BS loot serve as a significant source of minerals in 0.0. Would you please consider removing NPC haulers, and restrict NPCs to dropping meta variants only?
Even though I don't mine, I feel miners get marginalized by all these alternative mineral sources and that it renders capital production far easier than it really should be. A reduction in mineral output for standard NPC pirate factions is also warranted simply on the premise that we now have a wide scale deployment of Rogue Drones. For anyone who considers this necessary and important part of NPCing, they have the option.
2. Don't, under any circumstances, boost bounties.
Despite having POS, skill, market and other smaller isk sinks in the game, the amount of money coming into the system is higher than the amount going out. NPCs are the top contributor, followed by insurance system. 0.0 rewards do not need to be boosted, provided your lowsec BS spawns are not common.
If you don't heed this warning, at least consider removing all mission bounties to compensate. ISK rewards in missions should be controlled by the agent, making the social skills more useful and career mission running a viable profession. So instead of 1mil reward with 1mil time bonus it could be 5mil/5mil.
3. Static asteroid belts will die anyway, changing the risk/reward model.
Last I heard, all static content was eventually gonna be migrated to the dynamic distribution system (exploration) with crappy asteroid belts being easy to find with onboard scanner (a la Encounters). I hope that change eventually comes. If it does, a serious increase in rewards for lowsec and high sec is questionable and 0.0 completely unjustifiable.
Most of the risk in asteroid belt NPC hunting comes from the fact that a good player can pinpoint you in 30 seconds, far faster than the 1-2 hours it takes to find a mission site. Point is, don't boost rewards because the risks are higher now and then drop the risks later. That would effectively result in two boosts.
4. NPCs might be dumb, but at least they should warp scramble.
I am of the opinion, like many players here, that you shouldn't be so conservative in your new AI deployment. Most people would welcome it because it would result in a fun game. If people die because they presume to be able to do lvl 4's or BS spawns without help, they will quickly adapt.
But, even if you do NOTHING to traditional PVE content, please for the love of god reintroduce warp scrambling. Remember when battleships knew how to warp scramble? I do. Every frigate and cruiser should have a chance to warp scramble, and every tech 2 interceptor/hac NPC should always scramble. Close range pulse/blaster battleships should have a chance to scramble as well.
In my honest opinion your post if full of fail. 50% of 0.0 space actually needs a boost. Probably more. The impact of Hauler spawns on available Minerals is very low i¦d guess. If anything is unjustifiable then a rewardboost in highsec, if anything is questionable then a rewardboost in good 0.0 if anything is surely needed then a boost of bad 0.0 and more important a boost of lowsec lowsec. If you would gibe BS a warp-scrambler you would nerf ratting so much. In special younger players who need a lot of time to kill 2-3 BS would be easy targets for ganksquads. And you want tell me that it is profitable to rat in a system with about 10 belts with more then one person. Go home and reconsider everything you wrote. Its crap. |
Tesal
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Posted - 2009.01.29 23:57:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Tesal on 30/01/2009 00:01:37
Originally by: Von Druid
Originally by: Tesal Question 1: Is any of this content for casual players, or for players who want a relaxed lifestyle. Are we going to have to have fleets to kill NPC's now? For people who play EvE in one hour time blocks, this will make the game impossible to play if they have to spend an hour setting up a fleet.
How will this make the whole game impossible to play for you? Not all content is meant for solo players in a massively multiplayer game, big surprise.
Wasn't talking about "solo" players, rather "casual players". Some are miners and missioners, others are pirates who show up at the same gate every Sunday for an hour or two. Some are burned out vets who log on to say hi for a little while. Not everyone plays EvE for 6 hour time blocks. A casual player can only log on for an hour or two at a time or maybe thats all his GF will allow . |
Bonny Lee
Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.30 00:02:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Tesal
Originally by: Von Druid
Originally by: Tesal Question 1: Is any of this content for casual players, or for players who want a relaxed lifestyle. Are we going to have to have fleets to kill NPC's now? For people who play EvE in one hour time blocks, this will make the game impossible to play if they have to spend an hour setting up a fleet.
How will this make the whole game impossible to play for you? Not all content is meant for solo players in a massively multiplayer game, big surprise.
Wasn't talking about "solo" players, rather "casual players". Some are miners and missioners, others are pirates who show up at the same gate every Sunday for an hour or two. Some are burned out vets who log on to say hi for a little while. Not everyone plays EvE is 6 hour time blocks. A casual player can only log on for an hour or two at a time or maybe thats all his GF will allow .
You could still do the mission arcs, you could still profit from the new t3 ships. Perhaps it could be easier for you to find exploration sites in future cause some of the active players rather go to w-space? You cant demand that everything in this exploration is fitted to your playstyle. I wont use this mission arcs but its ok for me that they are coming and bring some fun to our empire players. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.30 00:19:00 -
[127]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium On more difficult situations, a proper small/medium gang made of versatile ship classes and roles will be recommended. Again, depending player skill and experience, this can vary greatly as it may be possible to do so in less numbers, like the level5 mentionned example, but that falls into a question of how much efficient would it be to do that.
The problem with the level 5 mission comparison is that the two are fundamentally different things. Level 5 missions were just like level 4 missions, but bigger. Same resources, same profit, same strategies, the only difference was a potentially higher rate of income.
On the other hand, these new NPCs are something completely different. If I can't solo a level 5 mission, who care, I just run level 4s. If I can't solo these wormhole encounters, I don't get to do wormhole stuff at all. All those shiny new T3 ships? Forget it. Pirating people in wormhole space? Forget it, unless you can bring a gang to handle both the target and the npcs that will kill you as soon as your target goes down.
"Shoot and loot" may be a bit boring, but at least it puts the focus where it belongs: on the player-player interactions. |
Lagn Gita
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Posted - 2009.01.30 00:22:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Lagn Gita on 30/01/2009 00:24:53 Edited by: Lagn Gita on 30/01/2009 00:24:23 so in order to make w space worth the apparent risk, needing small/medium gangs(which means more mouths to feed not just a dude and his alt) for anything above the starter stuff and the logistics w space will involve, t3 stuff will be expensive making t3 ships expensive, meaning they will only be used for missions. |
Aranis Nax
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Posted - 2009.01.30 00:25:00 -
[129]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Originally by: Aranis Nax
A question regarding NPCs:...
We will not be changing mission rats, mainly because mission dungeons are carefully designed and balanced environments. If we were to throw a wrench in there and just 'see what happens' with the thousands of different dungeons it would be a waste of time. Time we would rather spend on improving the tools behind the entire thing so that the level designers can use them to make more awesome stuff in the future.
I wouldn't want your programmers/game designers to even touch level design with a 5 foot pole... But surely your level designers have a whole 8 hours every day(who needs sleep anyway ) that they could spend going over every single mission and reducing the number of npc's. That being said, I still would prefer to feel more like I'm just someone that got lucky to become a capsuleer and not some super awesome Rambo-god mowing down countless ships left and right as if it's just another day at the office. Well in all seriousness, why not create the new missions(which are coming too afaik) with stronger npc's and just slowly phase out the old ones, as was done with the previous generation of mission content(pre-deadspace), geez I miss the old The Assault and The Blockade? Another final thing that could really make missions way more interesting, procedural content generation a la Left 4 Dead. Missions that are rarely exactly the same, ooh mama! |
Low Blow
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.30 00:29:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Low Blow on 30/01/2009 00:29:16 The ISK making is a time consuming process, please don't make it more time consuming than it already is. |
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2009.01.30 00:29:00 -
[131]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Concerning the solo concerns for W-space: we took into consideration all player styles during the Sleeper design process. That means soloing is possible for the easiest situations you will face, but as mentionned CCP Gangleri, it will be challenging to do so. For fighting against Sleepers ourselves, we can tell you not to expect the current "shoot and loot" approach toward existing NPCs.
On more difficult situations, a proper small/medium gang made of versatile ship classes and roles will be recommended. Again, depending player skill and experience, this can vary greatly as it may be possible to do so in less numbers, like the level5 mentionned example, but that falls into a question of how much efficient would it be to do that.
In all cases, remember that W-space remains an unknown, hazardous area and as such teaming up with other players even on situations meant to be solotable will increase your chances significantly.
Fair enough, I suppose I could sucker in a few corpmates somehow.
So if these NPCs simulate PvP experiance will we be fitting things like scramblers to stop them from warping out when they are low health? Will they run away if outnumbered? I hope they're not too elusive. |
Atiana Obaani
Tomoe Laboratories Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2009.01.30 00:35:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Katana Seiko Only sleepers? Where's the Talocan, where's the Takmahl, where's the Yan Young? There werde four ancient races... They all deserve a comeback...
THIS! |
Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.30 00:49:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Bonny Lee
In my honest opinion your post is full of fail.
Go home and reconsider everything you wrote. Its crap.
I cant believe you consider that good feedback ccp :p
Hello there, space friend.
I predate you by four years, most of it spent in 0.0. Two years before you even created your character, I was fighting warp scrambling Battleship NPCs. Did you know they existed? Did you know warp scrambling by NPCs was common?
By the time you were learning how to fly a cruiser, I was helping build the first Titans by farming NPC hauler spawns. Averaging three or four spawns a day, dropping up to 60mil trit each. But as you say, that's completely negligible!
But ignoring the fact that me > you, the reason my feedback may be considered valid, is because 0.0 has been boosted in a dozen different ways already. All of them have failed to change the status quo, and yours are no different, space friend.
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ori thermos
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Posted - 2009.01.30 01:48:00 -
[134]
Please be very careful in changing economic sources and sinks. I have left a large number of games over the years as they have had too many money sinks and I was sick of constantly scratching for money. This game has a great number of many and varied ways to make money while enjoying the game without it feeling like you are grinding. I don't see this part of the game as broken so please don't fix it. My two bobs worth.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.30 02:02:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Rex Lashar
Originally by: Bonny Lee
In my honest opinion your post is full of fail.
Go home and reconsider everything you wrote. Its crap.
I cant believe you consider that good feedback ccp :p
Hello there, space friend.
I predate you by four years, most of it spent in 0.0. Two years before you even created your character, I was fighting warp scrambling Battleship NPCs. Did you know they existed? Did you know warp scrambling by NPCs was common?
By the time you were learning how to fly a cruiser, I was helping build the first Titans by farming NPC hauler spawns. Averaging three or four spawns a day, dropping up to 60mil trit each. But as you say, that's completely negligible!
But ignoring the fact that me > you, the reason my feedback may be considered valid, is because 0.0 has been boosted in a dozen different ways already. All of them have failed to change the status quo, and yours are no different, space friend.
Pwned. ^5s Rex.
Rex, I really agree with you with respect to your original post.
Mining has been diluted over and over again with things like the drone regions, mission loot and so on. Minerals need to come from mining, and very little else.
I also think that the bounties across all rats could stand to be trimmed a bit. Everything is too cheap and easy these days. But most certainly we don't need 0.0 rats to be buffed for an even greater flow of NPC farmer isk to ruin the economy further.
Same with scrambling BS. NPCs are FARRRR too easy right now. Any idiot can rat triple 1.85m BS spawns with complete safety and no commitment. Local spikes? No worries, you're aligned, just warp out, cloak and wait.
Anyway, I hope CCP have learned from their biggest mistakes, like the drone regions etc. |
JimBob Leeroy
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Posted - 2009.01.30 02:17:00 -
[136]
in the forum on WH's, one of the devs said that this expansion would improve solo play. i hope this to be true. and i also hope that they do take this chance to balance risk/reward. most of my friends are in big 0.0 allys, and they are as safe as most high sec mission runners, except when they are on the edge of the ally's sov.now i don't like the politics of the allys so i stay in a small corp(15 members). would love to go 0.0 other than ninja rating.
now this forum you hint that you plan to nerf solo and further reward the big 0.0 allys for there closing off of 25% of eve content from most ppl. and sit back and call us names(carebears) because we will not be just another number on there spread sheet. any poverty in 0.0 comes from the idea of NBSI. witch makes 0.0 only dangerous to those of us that don't belong to the big allys.but yall don't advocate better rewards for us.ninja rating is the most dangerous thing in the game, and is only about as profitable as lv 4 mission ruining,but wow what i could make if i was willing to put up with high docking fee's,high cost reprose and manufacture lines, and the taxes, that including the required fighting or the refusal of being able to do some of the things (anything that is very profitable) now this would be the perfect way for solo and smal corps to go 0.0, it would be nice if we could go to the real thing, but this gives you a chance at the great rewards with out the useless allys.now the miners want to stop mining with guns, well the only reason trit cost 4isk is that they can't provide enough of it, even with half of high sec mining velds because it is the most profit, even over all the 0.0 ores.so it would seam that they are not being nerfed with over influx of mins from gun mining.and no i don't care if you are 4 yrs old, that does not change the cause and effect. my biggest hope that this expansion will be geared towards the ability of newer players,small corps,and the big allys.i am not looking to have anything handed to me. but a fair chance to get some of the umber good loot and fun.and if you are 4 yrs old, you had at least a chance at that, even if you were one of the last.and sure ccp should care about the older chars as well as the newer ones, but if they only provide the better content to the end game, then they will run in to the problem of WoW and FFXI, and every other game, they need the newer ppl more than they need the older.srry but it is true.and it is not fair for them to work only for the newer ones, and i would hope they never would. but crying that there may be something good in the game that the allys can't control is not right either, and crying because it does not serve you better than the general does not help and just makes you look winy.
ccp everything i have read other that the devs above post seams like this will be the greatest expansion in any game i have played.plz don't let your ingame friends talk you into helping the already over powered 0.0 allys(and they have earned most of it) when you have 75% of your player base that has never had a chance to go where no one has been before and threw hard work and guts be able to bring home some of the umber gear.
thanks, and srry if i go overboard,this has had me so hyped, and to read that us carebears that only want a chance at a semi fair fight and really good loot would once again be denied. |
Jas Dor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.30 02:17:00 -
[137]
Sounds like CCP is trying to build an environment in which midsized (50-100 member) mixed independent PvP/Industrial corps can flourish. None of CCPs previous attempt to reach this goal have worked, somehow I doubt having plex level systems in going to result in anything more then W-Space being claimed by three or four major alliances.
If CCP wants to break up the power blocs, nerf titans and change the system of claiming Sov to something other then POS warfare. Hell even the alliances that benefit most from POS warfare want the system changed. In short CCP PLEASE NERF US, TAKE AWAY OUR ABILITY THE HOLD SPACE WITH POSES, RENDER OUR SYSTEM CONTROL POSES USELESS JUNK, PLEASE WE'RE BEGGING YOU NERF US INTO OBLIVION! |
Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.30 02:31:00 -
[138]
Quote: Of course, the nature and type of these new spawns will be put into scale towards null and high-security space as we plan to even out rewards, not destabilize them further. To be clear, no pirate battleship spawn will make it into high-security space.
Forgot to ask earlier but..
Does this mean the 'evening' goes both ways, and agent missions will be changed? Or will they continue to be treated separate from NPC hunting/exploration?
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JimBob Leeroy
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Posted - 2009.01.30 02:31:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Jas Dor Sounds like CCP is trying to build an environment in which midsized (50-100 member) mixed independent PvP/Industrial corps can flourish. None of CCPs previous attempt to reach this goal have worked, somehow I doubt having plex level systems in going to result in anything more then W-Space being claimed by three or four major alliances.
If CCP wants to break up the power blocs, nerf titans and change the system of claiming Sov to something other then POS warfare. Hell even the alliances that benefit most from POS warfare want the system changed. In short CCP PLEASE NERF US, TAKE AWAY OUR ABILITY THE HOLD SPACE WITH POSES, RENDER OUR SYSTEM CONTROL POSES USELESS JUNK, PLEASE WE'RE BEGGING YOU NERF US INTO OBLIVION!
it would be nice if they did a sec instead of sov, let sec float by the number of ppl/deaths, hence if you hold a part of 0.0 that was secure and no one is dieing the sec goes up, this solves the 0.0 rewards for areas that are safe, but it could never go above 0.49. and the higher the sec the more things an ally can do in it, so cryo jamers would only work in systems an ally truly held and not in the war zone on the edge.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.30 03:16:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Rex Lashar
Originally by: Bonny Lee
In my honest opinion your post is full of fail.
Go home and reconsider everything you wrote. Its crap.
I cant believe you consider that good feedback ccp :p
Hello there, space friend.
I predate you by four years, most of it spent in 0.0. Two years before you even created your character, I was fighting warp scrambling Battleship NPCs. Did you know they existed? Did you know warp scrambling by NPCs was common?
By the time you were learning how to fly a cruiser, I was helping build the first Titans by farming NPC hauler spawns. Averaging three or four spawns a day, dropping up to 60mil trit each. But as you say, that's completely negligible!
But ignoring the fact that me > you, the reason my feedback may be considered valid, is because 0.0 has been boosted in a dozen different ways already. All of them have failed to change the status quo, and yours are no different, space friend.
First Titans you say? Well, we all know the first Titan was piloted by the head of an alliance who of course was full of amazing leadership, not only that, but a strategic and tactical genius, full of the best players this game has ever seen.
While I don't care about the post, or the player, a little known fact is character age does not indicate player age in the game. |
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Jove X
Dragon Highlords Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2009.01.30 03:19:00 -
[141]
The problem isn't dumb NPCs, as I point out in this thread, the problem is dumb distribution.
Why should pirate faction NPC's dominate Empire, when empire NPC's don't dominate 0.0?
Why can I hunt Sansha's in empire and in 0.0 (rather than say, Amarr in 0.0)?
If I am running Sansha's missions, all I find in Sansha's belts are Sansha's. If I run Caldari missions, I find pirate rats in empire belts.
Does this say, ultimately that the pirate npc's police their space better than the empire faction npcs? |
Faraelle Brightman
Gallente Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2009.01.30 03:40:00 -
[142]
Can you tell us whether it might be possable that any of the Sleepers will be interacted with in ways other than shooting them? Is diplomacy an option? Will they give missions? Can you get faction standing with them? Is it all too top-secrent right now?
The above of course assumes that the Sleepers are still a: sentient, b: human, c: in controll of themselves, d: remotely interested in being friendly... there's certian implications of having foriegn powers come in and raep their new neighbors for technology, ya know! |
Bo Kantrel
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Posted - 2009.01.30 03:52:00 -
[143]
Paul Atreides: Father... father, the sleeper has awakened!!!!
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Gaius Sejanus
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.30 04:01:00 -
[144]
The thing that concerns me is the segment of the blog which talks about NPCs making "better" targeting choices.
To me, it sounds like it is going to be almost impossible to keep NPCs from shooting at your drones, if you're flying any ship with +% drone damage on it. Since drones can barely survive a strong sneeze, it seems to me as though those ships are going to just become pointless. I wouldn't even be surprised to see the Sleepers using those special NPC cheat mechanisms to give themselves 9 high slots, and fit 2-3 smartbombs.
Sure, it's just the Sleepers to start, but how long do we really think it will be before the changes filter all the way down to the noobship piloting belt rats in .8 space? |
Oliver Stoned
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Posted - 2009.01.30 04:53:00 -
[145]
Originally by: JimBob Leeroy in the forum on WH's, one of the devs said that this expansion would improve solo play. i hope this to be true. and i also hope that they do take this chance to balance risk/reward. most of my friends are in big 0.0 allys, and they are as safe as most high sec mission runners, except when they are on the edge of the ally's sov.now i don't like the politics of the allys so i stay in a small corp(15 members). would love to go 0.0 other than ninja rating.
ccp everything i have read other that the devs above post seams like this will be the greatest expansion in any game i have played.plz don't let your ingame friends talk you into helping the already over powered 0.0 allys(and they have earned most of it) when you have 75% of your player base that has never had a chance to go where no one has been before and threw hard work and guts be able to bring home some of the umber gear.
thanks, and srry if i go overboard,this has had me so hyped, and to read that us carebears that only want a chance at a semi fair fight and really good loot would once again be denied.
I totally agree with you Jimbob. Pilots of smaller corps need to speak up NOW! CCP needs to address the smaller corps and enable them to access 0.0 with being a member of a Mega corp/Alliance and deal with the politics and wars. W space could be that opportunity.
Since there will be so many to possibly be discovered, there should be a way to limit access to the newly discover W area unless you are associated with the pilot who discovered it. It then would benefit the corp/alliance that the pilot is a member of. Instead of "having" to be a member of a larger corp/alliance just to be in 0.0 space. This would promote exploration to smaller corps with access to better ores and resources. It would also provide materials to the economy with a risk vs reward. Since CCP has mentioned taking a group into W space would be recommended, one could also consider this as a training ground for the small corp to enter 0.0 space and joining a mega corp/alliance with something of experience to offer.
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Tipz NexAstrum
Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.30 05:04:00 -
[146]
So are these Sleepers going to get 80km torps like the other NPC's? I'd be nice if they would obey the same weapon rules as us, and learn to fit their ships right.
And An Anarchyyt, the trit came from the XETIC minerals
Originally by: CCP Navigator People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order in these forums.
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Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.30 05:19:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Zaiyo Modi on 30/01/2009 05:21:47
I have always felt the hauler spawns in 0.0 is too big a bonus. Afaik they appear quite frequently. The mining profession seemed abit like a joke with the hauler spawns around. :|
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.01.30 06:31:00 -
[148]
Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 30/01/2009 06:31:46
Quote:
Team Epic's first goal was to restore balance throughout the known regions of New Eden by spreading NPCs where they were direly needed. As such, with the expansion arrival, expect various pirate battleships to arrive into low-security areas to ambush the unprepared pilots. Of course, the nature and type of these new spawns will be put into scale towards null and high-security space as we plan to even out rewards, not destabilize them further. To be clear, no pirate battleship spawn will make it into high-security space.
so you are kicking the **** out of level 4s then? |
Navtiqes
Englebarna
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Posted - 2009.01.30 06:41:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Navtiqes on 30/01/2009 06:41:32 This might actually make me consider doing a wee bit of PvE if they're as smart as they sound like.
Unless it's just the regular rats with more stats.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.01.30 06:50:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: CCP Gangleri Our goal for the Sleepers was to make each encounter more like a PvP battle, so if you bring a solo BS against a gang of Sleepers you are going to lose, hard. Unless you are that good, guess we'll have to see.
In other words, if you don't have a corporation, you aren't welcome in the new content. Thanks for caring about all of your solo players, I'm sure we'll have lots of fun grinding highsec level 4s to pay someone else to get us some T3 stuff...
you can buy the tech 3 stuff on the market when players sell it, just like how right now you don't need to get tech 2 parts to build it yourself.
Also, just because you can't go get blood raiders to drop BPCs for you doesn't mean you can buy them.
Honestly, I have always hated how eve was so solo. I hope they make wormholes OMGWTFHARD. Find me one other mmorpg where you can solo big stuff. What's that? you can't find any? That's damn right you can't. Eve can finally have raids, thank freaking god, maybe the new missions will actually be interesting instead of AFK play. Because all "I want to solo everything" says to me is "I want to AFK make money for free!"
So get used to it, mmorpgs are suppose to have content that many like minded players can come together to complete. The best part about eve, is unlike wow, there will be no caps on these "raids" and there will be no damn instancing.
Bravo CCP, your finally getting around to making PvE FUN.
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Mahai Ano
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.01.30 06:56:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Mahai Ano on 30/01/2009 06:59:42
Originally by: MotherMoon [..]Eve can finally have raids, thank freaking god, maybe the new missions will actually be interesting instead of AFK play.[..]
Want raids? Go back to playing WoW, Shaman! Oh, in case you haven't noticed, quite many casual players do hate the raid system. They can't get anything, because the 24/7 dudes are all "been there, done that, got all drops I need", and won't go on another one.
You might want to get your drones shot down, cap drained to zil, scrambled and webbed in space, but not all PvE people are like that, some like to win.
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.30 07:05:00 -
[152]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri Our goal for the Sleepers was to make each encounter more like a PvP battle, so if you bring a solo BS against a gang of Sleepers you are going to lose, hard. Unless you are that good, guess we'll have to see.
If we have to expect regular ship losses (because it sound like the entire npc gang is going to focus fire on the weakest player target, from your blog), the rewards have better be good, and T3 worth doing...
About the Sleepers, what are their resistances going to be like? I'd really hate it if most ships of a specific race were rendered de facto useless for WH exploration, like Angels and Guristas are making Amarr laser boats a pain in the butt to use... ------------------------------------------
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JimBob Leeroy
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Posted - 2009.01.30 07:32:00 -
[153]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Wow servers have 10,000 people each, with 4,000 logged in at a time. If they can find a way to get 40 people together to kill NPCs, I'm sure you can figure out a way to group 4 players out of the 270,000 players you can choose from. (not counting the even more numerous characters those players create. (PvE alt anyone?)
Please CCP, consider making the new epic missions use some of these NPCs.
thanks CCP for making eve more of an mmorpg :)
ok, WoW suks, it is all about the lv 70 stuff with every expansion, with you soon get bored of, pvp servers suk for any one under lv 60, or when you are trying to lv there are lv 60-70 there killing you because they are bored.twiks destroy the bg's, it just all around suks. and yes i did play for 2 months, only because my GF did.and it was something we could do together.
witch is why a stated that it is important for ccp to address both end game and every thing before it.WoW is on it's way out, and they know it, they are scrambling to fix the low lv and mid lv's so as to keep new players, because only geting ppl to have new alts will get old and they will lose player base, witch started before the new expansion.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.01.30 07:47:00 -
[154]
Jove X said "Sleeper race? Makes me wonder if the Dev's have been hanging out in the Jove channel. We were discussing the sleeper races a lot recently." That theory we talked about in private chat is getting more and more likely with every passing day.
As for the Jove channel it does feel like a lot of the ideas and chats on there are making there way into story. Either the people on the channel are getting far too good at predicting the story or someone is watching the chats and borrowing/tweaking the ideas. That or someone has inside information.
____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.01.30 07:49:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Mahai Ano Edited by: Mahai Ano on 30/01/2009 06:59:42
Originally by: MotherMoon [..]Eve can finally have raids, thank freaking god, maybe the new missions will actually be interesting instead of AFK play.[..]
Want raids? Go back to playing WoW, Shaman! Oh, in case you haven't noticed, quite many casual players do hate the raid system. They can't get anything, because the 24/7 dudes are all "been there, done that, got all drops I need", and won't go on another one.
You might want to get your drones shot down, cap drained to zil, scrambled and webbed in space, but not all PvE people are like that, some like to win.
your right, which is why none of that is changing. Stop whining, it's only the new content. it's not they are doing what wow does. In wow they hard cap the number of players you can use and make it so you HAVE TO HAVE 40 people to do a raid.
While I hate this system (wow sucks) it gives players who want to join together and fight together, but not PvP, something to do. Right now there is no reason you should get 40 people together to go PvE.
Just because they add new missions and NPCs doesn't mean they are killing your solo PvE. Go do your level 4 no risk way to high rewards missions. You can have on your own thank you very much.
And for the wormholes, just go do thwem in highsec, I'm sure as long as you don't run into anything to bad you'll be just DAMN FINE.
In Wow, the other problem is that NPCs are about 40 times more owerful than the players. EvE is about balance. The idea is that these new NPCs will be like Players in strength. Grow some balls? It's not like these new NPCs are anywhere near RAIDS in wow. IN fact that would be stupid. The idea here is players and NPC are equal.
I don't want to feel like I'm unpowered to NPCs, I want to feel like I'm on equal footing with them.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.01.30 07:52:00 -
[156]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 30/01/2009 07:54:50
Originally by: JimBob Leeroy
Originally by: MotherMoon
Wow servers have 10,000 people each, with 4,000 logged in at a time. If they can find a way to get 40 people together to kill NPCs, I'm sure you can figure out a way to group 4 players out of the 270,000 players you can choose from. (not counting the even more numerous characters those players create. (PvE alt anyone?)
Please CCP, consider making the new epic missions use some of these NPCs.
thanks CCP for making eve more of an mmorpg :)
ok, WoW suks, it is all about the lv 70 stuff with every expansion, with you soon get bored of, pvp servers suk for any one under lv 60, or when you are trying to lv there are lv 60-70 there killing you because they are bored.twiks destroy the bg's, it just all around suks. and yes i did play for 2 months, only because my GF did.and it was something we could do together.
witch is why a stated that it is important for ccp to address both end game and every thing before it.WoW is on it's way out, and they know it, they are scrambling to fix the low lv and mid lv's so as to keep new players, because only geting ppl to have new alts will get old and they will lose player base, witch started before the new expansion.
yes I hate wow, most people l know this that read these forums. I love how you guys just see the word "wow" and instanty think I'm supporting it
wows set up encourages players to form up into group. much like Eves PVP. Which wow doesn't do. WoW pvp is like this. Join que, join eandom team of people, fight. That's stupid, the whole idea of wow is stupid.
But there is nothing wrong with PvE encouraging players to group up. In fact, whole corps might spring up, full of players that are all on at the same time. it just happens thier game times all are at the same time, so they have to spend an hour getting a fleet.
I honestly hate the idea of wow raids becuase they added a feature which basically ques you up to join a raiding group... so terrible, oh god you have no idea.
also what about smart NPCs means end game? unlike wow, you could just bring more noobs. Get 10 frigates (2 million isk) and go **** some NPC batleships that a single battleship (80 million isk) couldn't hope to kill. it will be just like eve. eve has no end game, it never will.
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Pliauga
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.01.30 07:55:00 -
[157]
MOAR DEVBLOGS!!!
(Uhm..hmm..) This is shaping up to be really interesting.
And MotherMoon, I'm with you on this one.
---------- DRONE love rulez!! 'mkay?! . |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.01.30 08:01:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Bo Kantrel Paul Atreides: Father... father, the sleeper has awakened!!!!
Was I the only one who thought of it as an H. G. Wells reference? --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2009.01.30 08:53:00 -
[159]
Will these Sleepers finaly be affected by EW? |
Katarlia Simov
Minmatar Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2009.01.30 09:29:00 -
[160]
Would NPCs logically choosing targets mean that bringing logistics ships would be pretty much pointless ? |
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Galena Technetium
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Posted - 2009.01.30 09:31:00 -
[161]
The dev's keep forgetting how most games (especially Eve) work in regards to "risk".
How many solo "gate camps" do you run across? How many 3 ship corps attack a POS?
It doesn't happen. People bring enough force to bear where there is no risk. Sure, big giant fleet battles happen sometimes. But that's not the norm. Most of the time, in Eve, PvP consists of a 6 on 1 gank. Or a 12 on 3, etc. The outcome is never in doubt (unless it is whether the smaller group can escape or just die).
So it is with this new AI. People will bring enough force that the new AI WON'T be any more of a challenge than the current AI. Sure, it will take MORE force than before. But it still will be "shoot/loot", just with more fingers in the pie.
So, what do you do? Since there is "no risk" (NPC's badly outgunned), will there be reward enough to make people WANT to do this activity?
And the dev's will have effectively "raised the bar" to the group-only content I mentioned earlier. How would a soloer know what a worm hole contains? Will they have to cheese it up and carry 3 warp stab's in the lows just to find out, then go back through the wormhole, grab a real combat ship, etc etc...
That's crap. Poor design. |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2009.01.30 09:31:00 -
[162]
Only if you honortank your logistic ships... |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.01.30 09:46:00 -
[163]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri Our goal for the Sleepers was to make each encounter more like a PvP battle, so if you bring a solo BS against a gang of Sleepers you are going to lose, hard. Unless you are that good, guess we'll have to see.
Awesome stuff so far.
However..
If the w-space npc are going to act like players will they also have the same weakness as in your ew/neut/damp mods work on them to full effect. So you could use a tanked bs to bait the npc into engaging then uncloak the falcon and warp in the support then *pop* goes the npcs? Or will the mods not be as effective due to the 'higher' tech of the sleepers and your 'normal' pvp gang setup will get you killed?
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Bonny Lee
Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.30 09:53:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Rex Lashar
Originally by: Bonny Lee
In my honest opinion your post is full of fail.
Go home and reconsider everything you wrote. Its crap.
I cant believe you consider that good feedback ccp :p
Hello there, space friend.
I predate you by four years, most of it spent in 0.0. Two years before you even created your character, I was fighting warp scrambling Battleship NPCs. Did you know they existed? Did you know warp scrambling by NPCs was common?
By the time you were learning how to fly a cruiser, I was helping build the first Titans by farming NPC hauler spawns. Averaging three or four spawns a day, dropping up to 60mil trit each. But as you say, that's completely negligible!
But ignoring the fact that me > you, the reason my feedback may be considered valid, is because 0.0 has been boosted in a dozen different ways already. All of them have failed to change the status quo, and yours are no different, space friend.
So you have built titans 2006. I guess then i can asume that you havent been in bad true-sec systems for a long time. If you have been in alliances building titans you had access to the best of 0.0 space. This space is ok. But whats your last time you had to live in space with bad true-sec? You dont know anything.
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JimBob Leeroy
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Posted - 2009.01.30 09:59:00 -
[165]
mothermoon first, did not mean that you liked WoW, just that you are asking for content of a WoW type expansion. the wormholes will hopefully reduce the numbers to this systems enough that you don't end up with blobs.and other than the one dev post here all the others give the impression that if you enter from high sec MOST TIMES you will end in an easier version of this, for those who wish to solo, but solo is not suppose to be easy, this is meant for those that find lv 4's boring, not the guy who just got in a bs.the AI will let you get a feel for pvp, and have a pvp set up ship so as to be capable of fighting off pirates,provided they don't get you while all ready fighting, or have superior numbers or skills.if you enter from low sec, you would need a bigger gang, but pvp would be less likely there, if you enter from 0.0 you will need even bigger gang, and all most no chance of pvp.
but that is purely my take on the other forum added to this one.
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Malen Nenokal
Eden Federal Recon
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Posted - 2009.01.30 10:02:00 -
[166]
I, for one, welcome our new sleeper overlords. |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2009.01.30 10:05:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: CCP Gangleri Our goal for the Sleepers was to make each encounter more like a PvP battle, so if you bring a solo BS against a gang of Sleepers you are going to lose, hard. Unless you are that good, guess we'll have to see.
Awesome stuff so far.
However..
If the w-space npc are going to act like players will they also have the same weakness as in your ew/neut/damp mods work on them to full effect. So you could use a tanked bs to bait the npc into engaging then uncloak the falcon and warp in the support then *pop* goes the npcs? Or will the mods not be as effective due to the 'higher' tech of the sleepers and your 'normal' pvp gang setup will get you killed?
I suggest you pop over to the AI thread. Some references have been made to what the AI will do. It seems the new NPCs have been build from the group up, with new capabilities and scripts/AI to match. What we're sure off is that they fly more intelligently and have a better mechanism for choosing what to shoot at. EW was mentioned as well, as was trying to make the NPCs act more like players with their capabilities and modules. A lot of balance has gone into the new NPCs as well, so because they're better, you'll encounter fewer of them, but the rewards you'll get from them are better as well. How it all fits together we'll probably read in future blogs especially the one from Incognito.
I also want to say that if you have ideas on what and how NPCs should act for this expansion or beyond, you post it in the AI thread as well. It's clear from the replies in that thread that all those suggestions are read and taken on board, if not for this expansion, than put on the backlog for later on. A lot of really cool stuff has been posted there already. |
Onyx Asablot
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.01.30 10:13:00 -
[168]
Oh man I'm looking forward to these Sleepers :)
Having smarter AI is high on the list of topics I would like to see in EvE, so I look forward to hearing more about the details.
CCP mentioned that existing NPC's already 'warp away' in certain situations. This isn't quite true as they simply disappear, something I have always thought broke immersion. I don't like them just pulling a vanishing act. It would be great if the NPC's actually aligned and warped off grid if this were to happen with the sleepers (and also were pinned by warp disruptors etc just like a player, causing people to have to fit warp disruptors just like pvp fits).
I hope that the easier W-space areas are solo'able (with difficulty) but that the harder areas require teamwork. It seems that this is how it is designed so good stuff.
Good luck with the rest of the dev!
The NEW M.Corp Data Hub - Check it out! |
Rachel Silverside
Caldari K Directorate
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Posted - 2009.01.30 10:16:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Agrilad From Skill: "The Sleepers were masters of virtual reality, neural interfacing and cryotechnology."
Are y'all changing this description?
maybe this is where the jove got there pod tech from -------------------- i play momorpugers |
ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.01.30 10:17:00 -
[170]
a few points - sisi testing is it going to occour soon. 3 weeks just wont be enough to iron out bugs
Sleepers ok so pvp setups no problem can do that.
Id say 375k maybe 450k gimped bs in belts nothing and it will be rare probably would be better off with more bcs |
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.01.30 10:26:00 -
[171]
Originally by: JimBob Leeroy mothermoon first, did not mean that you liked WoW, just that you are asking for content of a WoW type expansion. the wormholes will hopefully reduce the numbers to this systems enough that you don't end up with blobs.and other than the one dev post here all the others give the impression that if you enter from high sec MOST TIMES you will end in an easier version of this, for those who wish to solo, but solo is not suppose to be easy, this is meant for those that find lv 4's boring, not the guy who just got in a bs.the AI will let you get a feel for pvp, and have a pvp set up ship so as to be capable of fighting off pirates,provided they don't get you while all ready fighting, or have superior numbers or skills.if you enter from low sec, you would need a bigger gang, but pvp would be less likely there, if you enter from 0.0 you will need even bigger gang, and all most no chance of pvp.
but that is purely my take on the other forum added to this one.
totalty, I hope to see high sec wormholes to be more solo, that way most people go in solo knowing they can do them solo. This will bring more solo people, thus more one on one PvP.
However what I was asking was less of what you find in a wow expansion, and more of what you find in a game like .. oh god.. pokemon of all things. where those tyhings you fight are the same things you are. To me this is best kind of rpg. not that I like pokemon anymore :P I grew out of that genre. But the idea of what you fly, is what you fight, is awesome.
and if the other side of thw wormhole has a group of 3 BAttleships, then get your 2 friends with battleships, and GO AT IT! tactical combat at it's best involves multiple ships.
p.s.(pkoemon failed due to it ebing one on one... I guess front mission would be a better example.)
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Army of One
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Posted - 2009.01.30 10:34:00 -
[172]
Waa! My drones will get shot!
Well, you can...
A) Carry spares in your mobile base, since it seems one will be required for any 'serious' W-space expedition.
B) Fit a tracking disruptor
C) Orbit close and recall them if they get shot / smartbombed
W-space rats sound like they'll fight more like PvP PCs, which means pvp tactics and pvp fits. If you take a normal, PvE fit Domi or Golem into a wormhole I wouldn't be surprised if you get exploded by the first cruiser rat you run into.
Also, yes, you'll get lost, you can get stuck. This is EvE, deal with it. Or not - nobody is forcing you to do wormhole exploration and I strongly doubt T3 will replace T2 anymore than T2 replaced T1 (well, ships anyway)
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.01.30 10:44:00 -
[173]
those going into wspace will know the risks im assuming if not will be a boon for ship manfuactures anyway.
Survival and profit will depend on quick adaptiveness and a co operative effort the way eve is
actually it sounds like ccp has something they can work with here in wspace
will the new rats do new dps types perhaps or a combination of existing ones
there are what 3 other ancient non jove and non jove enemy races to come yet so i see lots of room for future expansions here as long as ccp can keep ne content going sideways and perhaps up but not at a great speed they will have something they can work with now to just let us test it
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1Of9
Gallente The Circle Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2009.01.30 10:58:00 -
[174]
Dear CCP: According to dev posts in the previous blog and some dev posts on this blog, it will be v.hard (if not near impossible) for a solo explorer to be able to win over this new NPCs. (some dev spoke about NOSing/NEUting on the previous blog, on this blog it was said "solo BS will lose. hard.")
I think it's v.good that this new NPCs will be hard to kill and they will be smart, but please don't exaggerate.
Im a solo explorer most of the time, i play eve -ALOT- and most of this time there's no one around to be able to come with me, so i have to run plexes and sites all by myself or i stay docked spinning ships until someone comes online able to come along.
So, please, don't forget about people like me, don't make it too hard so we cant solo this new NPCs.
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Franga
Gristle Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.30 11:09:00 -
[175]
Edited by: Franga on 30/01/2009 11:10:50 Whilst I am happy to see that some of this stuff could bring potentially new targets to low-sec, I hope that my general run of the mill ISK-whoring for 'actual' PVP isn't going to be distrubed.
Doesn't sound like it will initially anyway.
EDIT: And I forgot ... MOAR DEV-BLOGS ----------
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.01.30 11:19:00 -
[176]
Haha! Another "we will NEVER"-myth is broken here; Alien race.
You fail CCP, FAIL!!! It would not have been so much fail per se if you would have said that "we might add aliens" rather than "we will NEVER"(TM).
Fail!
Luckily JGE is coming! |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.01.30 11:26:00 -
[177]
Kuolematon said ôHaha! Another "we will NEVER"-myth is broken here; Alien race.ö If the new Sleepers are the same one as the Sleepers already in game then they are humans not Aliens.
____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2009.01.30 11:29:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Pottsey Kuolematon said ôHaha! Another "we will NEVER"-myth is broken here; Alien race.ö If the new Sleepers are the same one as the Sleepers already in game then they are humans not Aliens.
It's the same Sleepers as in the backstory.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.01.30 11:29:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Kuolematon Haha! Another "we will NEVER"-myth is broken here; Alien race.
You fail CCP, FAIL!!! It would not have been so much fail per se if you would have said that "we might add aliens" rather than "we will NEVER"(TM).
Fail!
Luckily JGE is coming!
What saddens me moast is that your not even trying anymoar.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.01.30 11:35:00 -
[180]
LaVista Vista said ôIt's the same Sleepers as in the backstory.ö ThatÆs great news but the next big question is are the Sleepers and the Enheduanni Sleepers the same or linked or are they completely two different things? I assume you wouldnÆt have permission to answer and the devs wouldnÆt for storyline reasons.
____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.01.30 11:49:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Zeba What saddens me moast is that your not even trying anymoar.
I knouw! EVE is so boring and these forums are full of fail nubcakes whining about X because of Y. It's really very untrollable atmosphere here. Perhaps one day but all things points that JGE is my next stop.
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.01.30 12:05:00 -
[182]
perhaps these sleepers are a early ancestor that was cut off or perhaps they were an early group that may have evolved on theri own but their empire collapsed ( all this taking part long after the eve gate collapse but before the current empires arose)
Wspace either represents links perhaps to other disconnected earth linked groups or perhaps totally new space that may have been settled after the eve gate collapse perhaps wormholes were common back then. Perhaps a while after the eve gate collapse the wormholes around the kspace collapsed and a period of stability settled over the known eve galaxy but recent events perhaps have unlocked or stirred up these wormholes
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Kathryn Dougans
Amarr B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2009.01.30 12:05:00 -
[183]
any Enheduanni or alien crap would be the end.
whole point of Eve is that the universe is shaped by the players.
Things like the Amarr succession championship and faction warfare is how players can shape how the empires develop.
Enheduanni were just a plot device for a story. They don't matter, and the best thing that could happen to Eve would be another story, where they're wiped out.
Don't ask me about the cows. |
ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.01.30 12:12:00 -
[184]
i think ccp could take advantage of hte back story, there is nothing to say this ancient race wasnt human or an enemy offshoot of the first jovian empire or a rogue group of high technology terran settlers.
They dont represent an alien race but do represent an ancient thought extinct race. If the ancestory can be traced back to earth it just makes them a splinter group, if its a small raoming empire fallen from tis glory days but not linked to the jove enemies then again it represents not a diversion but a new branch of the storyline
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.01.30 12:30:00 -
[185]
Puuuulease put in a sleeper station somewhere in WH space. A couple 'layers' deep for good measure. ----------------- Friends Forever |
Cadde
Gallente Gene Works AKA-AHN KINGDOM
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Posted - 2009.01.30 12:30:00 -
[186]
Once again, to the people complaining they can't solo every single aspect of EvE. You are not supposed to solo some things, even if people have found ways to solo LvL 5 missions it wasn't the intention behind them. I get the feeling that if you had your way (solo people) then you would be able to hold sovereignty over an entire 0.0 region by the press of an F-key. After all, everybody should be able to do anything that exist in the game right?
As far as i am concerned, there are plenty of stuff in eve that are too easy to solo. Eve is a teamwork oriented game, if everybody did everything solo then whats the point in having multiplayer??? So you can wave your E-PEEN around like anyone would give a frack about you?
It's not about "I can do this and that solo, thus i am better than you" but rather about "I enjoy working together with my corporation and alliance towards our common goal of domination in any or all fields and find pleasure in seeing us succeed". Am i right or am i the only sorry bastard who enjoy a gang of people doing PvP, PvE, Mining and all sorts of things as friends?
Oh well, maybe in the end, after enough whining about EvE not being fun CCP will make every action in eve happen by the press of one button. And it's all down to how old character #1 is compared to character #2. Everything else is as good as it can be. One fitting to rule them all, one ship to rule them all, one skillset to rule them all, one profession to rule them all. ONE BUTTON FOR "I WIN, YOU LOSE"!
I want MORE stuff that is very risky and gives great profits. As it is right now, it's way too easy to farm ISK for hours on end. If i do a lvl 4 i want to have a big chance of losing my BS and if i succeed i want a big reward. As it is now, the rewards are really good but there is 0 (ZERO) risk involved. I can do it for hours on end without a single exiting moment. That is very boring and simply turns into a necessary evil because i want bigger better stuff so i can make more isk... Repeat cycle. On the other hand you have PvP, very risky business with potentially crappy rewards compared to the time spent. But it's FUN, that is the reward!
Make every aspect of eve dynamic and challenging (FUN) and i am happy!
//Cadde --------------- Opinions? Yes they belong to me, not my corp! |
ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.01.30 12:42:00 -
[187]
wspace needs to be kept i think for a minimum of groups of 5-10 but not soloable
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Sverre Haakonson
Gallente The Galactic Empire Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.30 13:00:00 -
[188]
Edited by: Sverre Haakonson on 30/01/2009 13:00:11 Hopefully the behaviour of the beltrats will never change. For miner its the worst nightmare. |
1Of9
Gallente The Circle Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2009.01.30 13:08:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Cadde Once again, to the people complaining they can't solo every single aspect of EvE. You are not supposed to solo some things, even if people have found ways to solo LvL 5 missions it wasn't the intention behind them. I get the feeling that if you had your way (solo people) then you would be able to hold sovereignty over an entire 0.0 region by the press of an F-key. After all, everybody should be able to do anything that exist in the game right?
As far as i am concerned, there are plenty of stuff in eve that are too easy to solo. Eve is a teamwork oriented game, if everybody did everything solo then whats the point in having multiplayer??? So you can wave your E-PEEN around like anyone would give a frack about you?
It's not about "I can do this and that solo, thus i am better than you" but rather about "I enjoy working together with my corporation and alliance towards our common goal of domination in any or all fields and find pleasure in seeing us succeed". Am i right or am i the only sorry bastard who enjoy a gang of people doing PvP, PvE, Mining and all sorts of things as friends?
Oh well, maybe in the end, after enough whining about EvE not being fun CCP will make every action in eve happen by the press of one button. And it's all down to how old character #1 is compared to character #2. Everything else is as good as it can be. One fitting to rule them all, one ship to rule them all, one skillset to rule them all, one profession to rule them all. ONE BUTTON FOR "I WIN, YOU LOSE"!
I want MORE stuff that is very risky and gives great profits. As it is right now, it's way too easy to farm ISK for hours on end. If i do a lvl 4 i want to have a big chance of losing my BS and if i succeed i want a big reward. As it is now, the rewards are really good but there is 0 (ZERO) risk involved. I can do it for hours on end without a single exiting moment. That is very boring and simply turns into a necessary evil because i want bigger better stuff so i can make more isk... Repeat cycle. On the other hand you have PvP, very risky business with potentially crappy rewards compared to the time spent. But it's FUN, that is the reward!
Make every aspect of eve dynamic and challenging (FUN) and i am happy!
//Cadde
so, docked spinning ships for me it is then eh? |
Napro
Caldari Fist of Eargon
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Posted - 2009.01.30 14:36:00 -
[190]
A dev already stated that only Black Ops ships with blackops bridges or cynos or whatever theyre called will be able to access wormspace
Thats the whole reason theres been no boost to the otherwise useless Battleship class cov ops |
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ju4n1ta
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.30 14:38:00 -
[191]
With this new NPC AI... will they now give a phuchk if you use EW on them? Currently they do not mind being jammed, damped, NOSed, neuted, ... only TP and web works on them and thats only to improve players performance, it still does not hinder NPCs. So will it be possible to neut those cuskers to hell and back and make them not fire/EW at you while their cap is at 0? Will I be able to damp few bigger NPCs until I clear smaller scrambling frigs? Will my domi loose it's drones in one voley when NPCs find out it's only drones doing the damage? In other worrds: Are speced EW ships going to be usefull in W space or are they still PVP only? |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2009.01.30 14:59:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Napro A dev already stated that only Black Ops ships with blackops bridges or cynos or whatever theyre called will be able to access wormspace
Thats the whole reason theres been no boost to the otherwise useless Battleship class cov ops
For a claim like that, you really need to provide a link. The devs have stated that it is considered an exploit to get into a wormhole system using anything outside of a wormhole. |
JimBob Leeroy
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Posted - 2009.01.30 15:24:00 -
[193]
oh wow. plz post the solo person that said they wanted it easy.if they wanted easy they would be in big ally in 0.0 making 2X the isk rating, witch is much easier than soloing lv 4's.i know my main can't solo lv 5's, even with main+ alt in rr gang takes all day and a lot of warp outs, and gets very close if you don't get the scramers out fast.but you don't even think of solo lv 5's if you are looking for easy. you do it for the fun. and many ppl don't like the politics of 0.0.when was the last time a small ally had a chance to go out and claim some of the great 0.0.i hope eve is not just about the mega allys. and super gangs.if ccp were to nerf 0.0 to a fair risk/reward then the big allys would not be so over powered, i keep hearing how lv4 mission *****s make so much isk.and how the isk from them is wreaking the in game economy. well it is not them that are building so many titans that they are no longer the big ahh! that they were obviously ment to be.so just because we don't want to fall in to the 20 ppl seting on a gate waiting for some one that has no ill intentions towards you or your ally, so yall can kill them. for no more cause than realy you are bored.but yet you want us all to have to do that!
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Janus Ovellian
Minmatar Calpolli Namtz' aar K'in
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Posted - 2009.01.30 15:31:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Napro A dev already stated that only Black Ops ships with blackops bridges or cynos or whatever theyre called will be able to access wormspace
Thats the whole reason theres been no boost to the otherwise useless Battleship class cov ops
This is a lie.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale black ops have no specialist role in this area yet.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=982776&page=24#716
Interesting times await... |
Madness Blasphemy
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Posted - 2009.01.30 15:50:00 -
[195]
Originally by: SpaceSlag I assume this means that belt guarding NPC's will not maintain aggro on a tanking BS or BC, therefore making mining ops much more difficult for a single person with 5 alts & a main?
Where's the love for ninja miners?
lol, well somehow I doubt they'd find a mining ship more threatening than an actual combat ship..
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ammargal
Amarr Sacred Templars Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.30 15:57:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Madness Blasphemy
Originally by: SpaceSlag I assume this means that belt guarding NPC's will not maintain aggro on a tanking BS or BC, therefore making mining ops much more difficult for a single person with 5 alts & a main?
Where's the love for ninja miners?
lol, well somehow I doubt they'd find a mining ship more threatening than an actual combat ship..
What about Griefer AI ? :p |
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2009.01.30 16:01:00 -
[197]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 30/01/2009 16:03:01
Originally by: Cadde Once again, to the people complaining they can't solo every single aspect of EvE.
Nobody is saying that everyone should be able to solo everything, what we're saying is that people should be able to solo the lower levels at least. Nobody would ever fault CCP for requiring groups of very well armed and coordinated ships for the ultimate prizes, but it would be nice if you could still do at least *some* wormhole events solo.
Quote:
I get the feeling that if you had your way (solo people) then you would be able to hold sovereignty over an entire 0.0 region by the press of an F-key. After all, everybody should be able to do anything that exist in the game right?
That's an awfully big generalization. Nobody has made this argument. Everybody knows 0.0 sovereignty is the ultimate goal of player entities (in general). So I find it outright offensive you would imply people who play solo would believe this.
Quote:
As far as i am concerned, there are plenty of stuff in eve that are too easy to solo.
The things like lvl 5 missions that people can solo apparently are hardly the norm, and I dare say they earned it if they figured some way to do it.
Quote:
Eve is a teamwork oriented game, if everybody did everything solo then whats the point in having multiplayer???
The idea of playing "alone together" for one. Not that that's my forte'. It's enough at times to just know you're part of a living, breathing world full of people, without having to interact with them beyond base market transactions. To be part of the world should not require the consent of others, nor should it require you to operate on a schedule not your own. It should help to take part in groups, but it should by no means be absolutely necessary.
Quote:
It's not about "I can do this and that solo, thus i am better than you" but rather about "I enjoy working together with my corporation and alliance towards our common goal of domination in any or all fields and find pleasure in seeing us succeed".
The two are hardly mutually exclusive. There are times when you want to feel empowered on your own, and other times when you want to feel part of a greater whole. Both lead to enjoyment.
Quote:
Am i right or am i the only sorry bastard who enjoy a gang of people doing PvP, PvE, Mining and all sorts of things as friends?
Most people do, but people in general like to be able to do things on their own when corpmates are offline or on the other side of the universe.
Quote:
Oh well, maybe in the end, after enough whining about EvE not being fun CCP will make every action in eve happen by the press of one button.
I think you're confusing solo players with console gamers.
Quote:
I want MORE stuff that is very risky and gives great profits. As it is right now, it's way too easy to farm ISK for hours on end.
Working as intended, people should be able to invest however much time they want in their iskmaking endeavors as they damn well please.
Quote:
If i do a lvl 4 i want to have a big chance of losing my BS and if i succeed i want a big reward. As it is now, the rewards are really good but there is 0 (ZERO) risk involved.
LvL 4 mission running is hardly a "big" reward, if you're going to rail against "those big jerks making billions in empire", talk about manufacturing and trade. LvL 4's are a joke for isk.
Quote:
On the other hand you have PvP, very risky business with potentially crappy rewards compared to the time spent. But it's FUN, that is the reward!
You can't use "fun" as an absolute qualifier, because your idea of "fun" might be completely different than somebody elses. I'd be just as happy running off to wormhole space with a wing and a prayer cut off and alone in a risky environment, what about *my* fun?
In summary, nobody is making the argument that all W space should be soloable, but some damn well should. Ideally some of the empire holes. |
Draconus Lofwyr
Gallente M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.01.30 16:02:00 -
[198]
the first time one of these new AI enabled RATS convo me to request a ransom, its all over.
But I can see them choosing to use the roids as an aggression trigger, they are here to defend the belts and ratters aren't threatening the roids like the fleet of hulks stripping them away.
DL |
Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.30 16:37:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Rex Lashar on 30/01/2009 16:38:00
Originally by: Bonny Lee So you have built titans 2006. I guess then i can asume that you havent been in bad true-sec systems for a long time. If you have been in alliances building titans you had access to the best of 0.0 space. This space is ok. But whats your last time you had to live in space with bad true-sec? You dont know anything.
I've lived in about 20 different 0.0 regions, among them Syndicate, Stain, Curse, Pure Blind, Outer Ring. The majority of the systems there have crappy ore and crappy true-sec. Unfortunately for your argument:
1. Agent missions ignore true sec 2. NPC spawns are significantly boosted by pirate sovereignty, and further by the presence of an NPC station 3. Exploration sites are diffused everywhere and largely ignore true-sec (which means finding Arkonor in systems with no Arkonor)
To tell you the truth, I don't think I've bothered with awesome -1.0 systems much. That whole Titan thing? -0.05 true-sec. And recently I've been making as much money from Syndicate as I have with Delve, because of exploration. Measuring the worth of a system by its belt contents is an anachronism any sensible person would know. I'm not even sure what idiot still mines at asteroid belts when they can mine in deadspace.
So once more, you wield the "other person is an idiot" card without actually making sure to secure a solid line of reasoning. I pity the fools, space friend.
@An Anarchyyt Bro, I'm not from ASCN if that's what you're asking :V |
Cadde
Gallente Gene Works AKA-AHN KINGDOM
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Posted - 2009.01.30 16:58:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Gamer4liff A good breakdown of my post that wasn't directed to you but treated as such
Yeah as you see, i didn't talk to you directly. But if we look past that, we can conclude that the bare minimum requirement to gain access to wormhole space right now is a ship that can fit the new exploration probe launcher. So in essence anyone with a few days of skill training will have access to the wormholes and the hostile space within. What you do once inside is still to be determined by a few more dev blogs but i guess one will be able to mine, rat, do more exploration (exploration sites will exist in wormhole space) and all the other things one can do in 0.0 space. Only things you CANT do is cyno jump, claim sovereignty, dock up or run to a stargate for comfort.
So, what is there for the solo player? You can go out and about in a solid PvP platform and engage the NPC's and hope for the best, the risks are high but the rewards are most likely in line with the risk. You can mine (possibly new kinds of materials) in either a pvp ship (failfit) or in an industrial. Once again, it's risky but you can do it solo! You can find exploration sites with very impressive stuff in them, people solo exploration sites on a daily basis all over the universe (0.0 to highsec) knowing the risk vs the reward factor and in W-Space you might weigh in that you CAN be the only one in there for a long time to come.
There is alot of content in this new wormhole space for solo players but it will take a team to reap the real rewards.
When i started playing eve (one year ago) i thought 1 million isk was a goldmine, it was also challenging because i knew jack about tanking, ship bonuses, modules etc etc. In the first month i used LASERS on a catalyst because lasers where cool! As time progressed i learned about tanking and started using it but not much. and the first week of learning what tanking is i was using a shield tank on my thorax! As i moved into LvL 4 eventually i used the proper tanks, it was challenging in the beginning because i didn't have the skills needed, the typical lvl 4 mission noobie mistake. not so long ago i ran 60% of my missions UNTANKED because my damage output is so high i can kill them before they get through my shields. (Yes, this is lvl 4!) So you can understand my reasoning behind lvl 4 being too easy. Now i have come so far as to use two accounts for mission running just to make isk faster, i know all missions by heart, i know exactly what spawns there and i know what to shoot first. Missions never change, aggro mechanics are the same. It's very easy to do them once you know how they play out. It's most likely the same for LvL 5 except i don't have carrier skills which would probably be required to sit and tank those. But i wouldn't know since i haven't seen one yet. My guess is they are as easy to predict as any lvl 4.
With this new AI and new system i foresee a challenge like no other in EvE. And there really should be a minimum requirement to make use of it in a stable manner. If i go inside solo in this space i do so expecting to my odds of survival to be very slim and if i make it out i would do so with something worth more than i invested in the first place. Eventually i will learn the nature of wormhole space and become better at it but in no way do i expect to make millions of isk during the first weeks in there.
How i think of FUN is indeed different from others viewpoint. Doesn't take away human nature. To experience fun you have to experience loss/boredom/challenges. How else could you tell the difference between fun/not fun? --------------- Opinions? Yes they belong to me, not my corp! |
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Cadde
Gallente Gene Works AKA-AHN KINGDOM
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Posted - 2009.01.30 17:21:00 -
[201]
OH... OH OH OH! One more thing, this isn't directed to anyone in particular so don't quote me with a reply unless you wanna admit you fall into that category!
W-Space doesn't change the rest of EvE. When W-Space is launched the rest of the content will still be there. If you happen to be of the mindset that anything new released HAS to be done then you are missing the point of diversity. Stick to one profession or try them all. But don't change your goals if you can't handle the new stuff! When the Orca was launched everybody was talking about it, skilling, farming isk and minerals, getting blueprint packs and so on. Now i see an orca every hour in eve, i get the feeling that 70% of those flying Orcas do so because they CAN and feel they are at an advantage doing so. And plenty probably expected the Orca to be a solo mineral PWN mobile or a mini freighter. I can agree to some extent that the Orca is a mini freighter but it's still not a solo PWN mobile.
Mining with an orca requires so much more than the bare minimum skills to be effective. Still everybody jumped on the wagon and got their Orcas because it would change their life! As i see it, an Orca is awesome when put into proper use boosting a fleet of 10 hulks and then having another orca do the hauling. But for solo mining with a single hulk happily chugging away... That is the true definition of failure! There is something for everyone in EvE, how you use it is up to you but don't expect it to be a boost in profits when going solo just because it's new.
Sorry for the off topic but it relates to this thread in that a large portion of the playerbase expect to be able to use a new feature solo and make muchos iskos.
//Cadde --------------- Opinions? Yes they belong to me, not my corp! |
Kaiji Vincente
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Posted - 2009.01.30 17:27:00 -
[202]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
A lot of the things you mention already exist in the current "AI" of the NPCs, they warp away sometimes (and you can scramble them) they are also susceptible to other forms of electronic warfare to some extent. What we have been doing is improving on that, with the goal of making PvE combat more like PvP.
Does this mean the new NPCs will be susceptible to sensor damps? And/or that their behavior will not be 100% dependent on maintaining a target lock?
I have literally seen NPCs either stop moving or turn around and fly towards their spawn point when jammed. And seeing frigate rats target at 300+ km during Blockade pretty much confirmed my suspicion that existing NPCs have infinite lock range.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2009.01.30 17:35:00 -
[203]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 30/01/2009 17:38:08
Originally by: Cadde
.
Edit: goddamn forums ate my post.. Pretend I quoted you and agreed with most of what you said but said that I think there should be small groups of 3 cruisers or 1 battleship in the lower reward systems, if the new rats are comparable to player DPS and tanking ability. Like spawns that Soloers or groups of newish players who can only fly cruisers or some such could tackle.
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Illectroculus Defined
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Posted - 2009.01.30 17:41:00 -
[204]
Originally by: SpaceSlag I assume this means that belt guarding NPC's will not maintain aggro on a tanking BS or BC, therefore making mining ops much more difficult for a single person with 5 alts & a main?
Where's the love for ninja miners?
Real ninjas work alone.
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Bonny Lee
Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.30 18:38:00 -
[205]
Edited by: Bonny Lee on 30/01/2009 18:43:01 Edited by: Bonny Lee on 30/01/2009 18:41:09
Originally by: Rex Lashar Edited by: Rex Lashar on 30/01/2009 16:38:00
Originally by: Bonny Lee So you have built titans 2006. I guess then i can asume that you havent been in bad true-sec systems for a long time. If you have been in alliances building titans you had access to the best of 0.0 space. This space is ok. But whats your last time you had to live in space with bad true-sec? You dont know anything.
I've lived in about 20 different 0.0 regions, among them Syndicate, Stain, Curse, Pure Blind, Outer Ring. The majority of the systems there have crappy ore and crappy true-sec. Unfortunately for your argument:
1. Agent missions ignore true sec 2. NPC spawns are significantly boosted by pirate sovereignty, and further by the presence of an NPC station 3. Exploration sites are diffused everywhere and largely ignore true-sec (which means finding Arkonor in systems with no Arkonor)
To tell you the truth, I don't think I've bothered with awesome -1.0 systems much. That whole Titan thing? -0.05 true-sec. And recently I've been making as much money from Syndicate as I have with Delve, because of exploration. Measuring the worth of a system by its belt contents is an anachronism any sensible person would know. I'm not even sure what idiot still mines at asteroid belts when they can mine in deadspace.
So once more, you wield the "other person is an idiot" card without actually making sure to secure a solid line of reasoning. I pity the fools, space friend.
@An Anarchyyt Bro, I'm not from ASCN if that's what you're asking :V
Aren¦t we talking about belt rats? Let me tink: Yes we are! Did you see a complain about exploration anywhere? I guess you didnt! Did i talk about mining? No! So what the hell is your point? I cant remember talking about systems with Agents in it either.
Is it your opionion that everybody should explore, only mine in deadspace, or run missions in 0.0 cause thats as profitable as it should be? Why the hell do we have some belts in the rest anyway???? And with everybody doing it the profit wouldnt be that high.
The only thing i talked about is, that belt ratting in 0.0 with bad truesec isnt profitable enough in comparsion to highsec lvl4-missions. Perhaps i should have made this a little bit more clear but this thread was about rats and rat ai so my post went into this direction. I dont think you disagree in this point.
PS: For sure you can measure a systems worth by true-sec. Every system has a chance to have anomalys and explorations but if they have none, and there is no agent inside you look at moons, belts and rats. A -0.7 system with 10 belts is always better then a -0.3 system with 10 belts and nothing else. |
Hathor Brutus
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Posted - 2009.01.30 19:10:00 -
[206]
Forum ate my first post... see if I remember... hmmm...
Could we please stop with the assumption that because EVE is an MMOG that implicitly means we are supposed to engage on some sort of herd behaviour and MUST play WITH others?
In CCP's words: "...the level at which each player decides to participate is a matter of personal choice. The game leaves ample room for continual progress and variety in all its solo playing aspects. For those who opt to do so, becoming the best lone-wolf pirate or bounty hunter is a never-ending task as the competitors are other human players who will employ every method at their disposal to gain an edge over the rest. Solo players are also able to hire out their services as mercenaries or hit men to other players or player-run corporations." - EVE Online FAQ
and
"The bottom line is that we at CCP have strived to create a rich and immersive universe centered on human interaction. Players can play the game as a simple space trading game or endeavor to control the largest, most powerful company in the universe. We provide the rules and tools, but it is the players themselves who create the adventures." - EVE Online FAQ
Regarding the issue at hand, I assume that, due to the layered nature of W-space, the risks will also by tiered. We were already told by the devs, that loot will be tied to where in W-space you are (K to W versus W to W).
Using AI to drive PvE towards a PvP endgame, sometime in the future, is a worthy goal in my view. But AI also means that one should not expect to be jumped by a dozen Sleeper BS plus respective support.
One MUST expect escalation and proportional response . If you came alone, then you should have a fighting change to succeed. Not shoot fish in a barrel, but not be Sleeper'dokken (TM) on sight (was I first to coin this one up?).
I must agree with Marlenus. Players solo L5s and that was not intended by the devs when they designed it. Is it efficient? Probably not but does that player care? For him/her its a game(TM).
And I would assume that all that weird radiation in W-space will interfere with the inertial dampers and stabilizers that allow a POS to be anchored. What I would expect would be some sort of forward logistics base / C&C module for carriers to allow those to fulfill one more logistical role.
If a player wants to risk his/hers shiny new toy in W-space, looking for some T3-components and blowing up stray Spleeper ships, should he/she not be able to do so? Obviously it will take more time than what you can do with a well organized and coordinated effort put forth by a team. That is just economies of scale
And because some of you brought it up, this is what game design flaws are (2me):
- bounties on NPC rats in belts in nullsec space - bounties payed on NPC rats to criminals (neg-sec stat) - sec stat raising by killing NPC rats
Now wouldn't it be a boost to gameplay if there were more agents and missions in lowsec and nullsec?
Come on... no DED agents in nullsec? How are they supposed to chase and eliminate those NPC pirates? Some of these agents would be really annoyed about having to live there (off their ships ) and would - for missions and a fee - be quite willing to alter your DED (or whatever) sec stat info.
I am not advocating an ISK-nerf. Put that nerfbat away. I am just trying to make a point on a game feature that seems flawed to me because it makes no sense. These agents' rewards should keep the isk/hour ratio unchanged.
And insurance??? I can actually self-destruct my ship, and get paid? I can willingly take my BS into a fleet fight in nullsec, get blown up, and get paid? I can commit a criminal action, time and time again, get blown up by CONCORD (or DED, I never know), and get paid?
Oh, come on...
Sorry if I rambled and ranted.
Finally - CCP - can't wait for Apocrypha!! |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2009.01.30 20:07:00 -
[207]
The whole solo versus gang issue is probably not as black-and-white as some of you make it out to be.
As I read the dev posts and blogs, the balance within w-space will be such that ninja-exploration will be possible, as gang-exploration will be possible as well. Ninja-exploration will just not be as profitable as gang-exploration, just as a ninja-mining operation will not be as profitable as a full out mining operation.
I haven't seen a single dev post/blog that says that it impossible for me to take my solo-PvP Arazu (yes they still exist) into w-space, pwning some sleeper NPCs careless enough to not fly with backup, and taking my loot out of w-space again.
Surely this will not be as profitable as taking a sizeable gang in and pwning every sleeper NPC in the vicinity, but then again, you don't have to share the loot with you gang mates either.
Thus-far, the only thing I've seen is a dev saying that if you take your shiny faction fitted BS into w-space and expect to pwn everything in sight by your lonesome, you probably in for a big surprise. I think that's a good thing, and I welcome it. And I don't think it's any different from what you can expect from running large plexes in FW either.
And that's all I have to say about that ... -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.01.30 20:21:00 -
[208]
Please please more background stories and chronicles.
TONS of them. Those sleepers are a complete new faction, more stories around them and even if they increase the mystery only!
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Galena Technetium
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Posted - 2009.01.30 20:31:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Cadde As i see it, an Orca is awesome when put into proper use boosting a fleet of 10 hulks and then having another orca do the hauling. But for solo mining with a single hulk happily chugging away... That is the true definition of failure!
That may be as you see it, but you'd be wrong. My "solo hulk" is more effecient with my orca sitting next to it than if I was sitting next to it in my transport ship. Aside from the mining drones it can use, it lets me see entire belts at once, blast npc's at any range I want and still salvage them, gives me the benefits of the mining links, I have to dock only 1/5th as often, and I don't have to use Jet Cans ANY MORE (probably the biggest help of them all).
Sure, I could mine a lot more faster with 2 hulks then picking up the cans...
But alas, idiots like to fly around and flip cans. Which severely reduces the profitability of such an technique. Plus, only having to worry about 1 ship mining lets me do this while I work! Talk about effeciency.
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Aeo IV
Amarr Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2009.01.30 21:05:00 -
[210]
Frankly, I think trying to make w-space gang oriented is a bad idea, because most players won't ever go and do it, and it will ultimately benefit large corps the most. |
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Tesal
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Posted - 2009.01.30 21:23:00 -
[211]
One of the biggest influences on logistics is going to be the AI. If the AI kills all the drones and nuets/scrams/jams the BS and support and it is really difficult, people will just get carriers and rat in an Onieros or something insane like that, repping all the fighters and following along in an Orca to scoop the loot and salvage. Maybe they might just blob the NPC's, thats a tried and true method. The AI type is going to determine the kind of infrastructure you need to set up to kill that AI. This will make wormholes a place for people who can bring the "heavy iron" if the NPC's are too difficult or annoying.
The wormhole size will determine how much infrastructure you can bring in easily. If the infrastructure needed to kill the NPC's is greater than the number of ships that can enter the wormhole and carry that in, infrastructure will have to be staged over time, and either built on site, or hauled to the new wormhole gates as they respawn which could be anywhere in the known universe. This might make wormhole space a place where people who are willing to lay down infrastructure will be the only ones to move into it.
Ironically, this could make Empire wormholes the most expensive, difficult and dangerous to exploit because you won't be able to put down enough infrastructure/bring enough force to easily to exploit the space and defend yourself. Not only will you not be able to bring in support, but you will face constant attack from pirates who can trap you in the wormhole, camp it, bubble it and kill you in force. This could make wormholes completely useless for most empire dwellers. I think if CCP makes empire wormhole loot too crappy it won't be worth exploiting, it will be a novelty, with rewards similar to what we have now in low sec. Honestly, I expect very high losses from operating in an empire wormhole. Wormholes need to provide enough income to make up for those losses.
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.01.30 21:58:00 -
[212]
Edited by: Marlenus on 30/01/2009 22:00:19 One thing I'm very curious to see is how hard it will be to scan down a wormhole entrance.
If it's so easy that anybody with a probe launcher and the minimum skills to operate it can do it reliably in a few minutes, there's going to be a high degree of roaming through all the wormspace, vast though it may be. The security of "jump through the hole and hope nobody finds you very often" will be minimal.
I don't really expect CCP to make it extremely hard to find the wormhole entrances, because that becomes a fun killer. You're lost in W-space, you know there's a hole somewhere because that's the rules, but you've been scanning for two hours without finding it? Ragequit time for a lot of people -- not for me, but I'm not normal -- and CCP won't go there routinely I don't think.
What I'm hoping for is a compromise. I'm hoping wormholes are like exploration sites, with easy ones that come up fast on the probe results screen and hard ones having extremely low "signal strength" (or whatever the wormhole equivalent is) that take luck, skill, and patience to pin down. The idea being, that if you find one of the incredibly hard ones to find, you've got better odds of not being followed through it ten minutes later.
Obviously it would make some gameplay sense for the difficulty of finding the hole to be scaled to the likely *value* of the hole. However, I'm not sure how to do this.
One possibility: Making larger-mass-limit holes harder to find. (I'd need some mumbo-jumbo to explain that.)
Or, how about make holes with longer duration limits harder to find? Because the short-duration ones are throwing off Hawking radiation as they get ready to deteriorate? In this scenario, the "signal strength" of the hole would go up as it has gone undiscovered for longer -- which would have two benefits. First, it makes some game design sense and minimizes the burden on the down-time cleanup routine for unfound holes; second, it neatly resolves a bunch of the meta-gaming problems with deliberately "using up" existing holes hoping for better ones. You'll get a new hole all right, but it's going to take you some HARD probing to find it, unless you're willing to wait a few hours or days until it starts spewing Hawking radiation that ups its "signal strength". And by then, you won't have many hours or a few days to plan your return expedition through the hole, assuming it takes you somewhere handy in Empire -- both because its duration is getting low and because a noisy hole in secure space will get quickly found by others who will consume its mass allocation.
The final possibility, of course, is to key the ease of finding the hole to the sort of place (value-wise) it's linking to.
I suppose clever designers could even work all three of those factors into the equation. It doesn't really matter -- but I do think it's hugely important that not all holes are created equal in the ease of finding them. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.30 22:33:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Bonny Lee
baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw
You're not very bright if you've already forgotten the reason for this debate. You essentially flamed these four points on 0.0.
Point one is mainly about the impact of NPC hunting on the mining profession. Your counter is to insist we're not discussing mining.
Point two suggests adjustments to agenting missions could be made to balance out new bounty buffs. Your counter is to insist we're not discussing agent missions.
Point three talks about the upcoming shift of static asteroid belts to the exploration system. Your counter is to insist we're not discussing exploration.
This follows such exquisite remarks as:
- NPC haulers spawns are insignificant. (even though they're a huge factor in capital production) - A boost of bad true-sec systems is needed. (even though exploration and agents violate this attribute) - Its not profitable to rat if BS have scramblers. (even though we've been there, done that) - I've never lived in low true-sec therefore I know nothing. (even though I have, before AND after 0.0 agents/exploration)
Your strategy has shifted from saying ignorant things, to denying saying ignorant things. The amusing part then, is where you conclude by saying something ignorant:
Originally by: Bonny Lee PS: For sure you can measure a systems worth by true-sec. Every system has a chance to have anomalys and explorations but if they have none, and there is no agent inside you look at moons, belts and rats. A -0.7 system with 10 belts is always better then a -0.3 system with 10 belts and nothing else.
In your example you mention one looks at moons belts and rats in the absence of agents and exploration. Well, moons aren't determined by true-sec and even the highest end stuff can be found anywhere. NPCs are determined by true-sec, but they're also augmented by pirate sovereignty. A -0.3 True Power system in Stain is going to match or beat an unclaimed -0.7 system in Esoteria for spawns - especially when it comes to special spawns.
In the last point, true-sec does mean the -0.7 will have better ore than -0.3. But only in the asteroid belts, and only for high end ore types. Not to say someone is gonna mine low ends, since they mostly come from loot and hauler spawns.
And anyone serious about having an Arkonor/Bistot/Mercoxit mining op in 0.0 will do it at an exploration site which has no npcs and takes an hour or more to scan down. Even if that exploration site is in your hypothetical -0.3 system. The only time someone might choose belts over exploration is if they have a refinery outpost in the same system and there are no real hostiles nearby. Which further blows chunks out of your argument that true-sec is important and bad true-sec systems should be boosted.
You take care now, space friend. If you want to pretend this never happened I will totally understand. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.01.30 22:57:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Aeo IV Frankly, I think trying to make w-space gang oriented is a bad idea, because most players won't ever go and do it, and it will ultimately benefit large corps the most.
if you can't get 3 people together you fail.
the wormholes will close if too many people go through, so you won't want a lot of people.
this will let small corp compete with large ones.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.01.31 02:00:00 -
[215]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Aeo IV Frankly, I think trying to make w-space gang oriented is a bad idea, because most players won't ever go and do it, and it will ultimately benefit large corps the most.
if you can't get 3 people together you fail.
the wormholes will close if too many people go through, so you won't want a lot of people.
this will let small corp compete with large ones.
Personally I think 3 to 5 people will be the optimal size for at least the lesser 0.0 w-space and lower with the devs hinting that the lowest quality high sec w-space will be soloable. For the top quality 0.0 w-space who knows whats guarding the really good stuff like a dyprosium moon or some uber exploration site. Then you might need to figure out how to get a larger group into the system. |
Gaius Sejanus
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.31 02:01:00 -
[216]
A lot of the specific issues that might arise with wormholes will depend a great deal on specific implementation.
Is W-space going to be like a shadow galaxy behind/underneath the "real" one? Do you enter a wormhole, and only access a single system with no stargates to anywhere else? Or are the wormhole areas constellation size (and, obviously, with stargates) ? region size? galaxy size?
If this is just single systems, imagine going through into W-space, and having the wormhole timer close it 10 minutes later, and not appear again for another 2 weeks. Doesn't matter how much stuff there is to do in that one system...being completely deprived of normal space infrastructure is going to make this experience a vast pool of suck. Since you don't know when the wormhole will appear again, how many hundreds of probes will you go through hoping to find a new one? I know there has been mention of recalling probes for re-use, but is that infinite use of a single (set of) probe(s)? Or do they run out eventually? If they run out, then the possibility exists, no matter how many of them you bring, that through a combination of you not being online and wormhole randomness, that you just NEVER find a way out.
You could seriously get completed stranded somewhere. Where's the fun/excitement/risk of being able to do...nothing?
As for the "Waah, my drones will get shot"...it's easy to say when you can just go pick up more. What happens when you can't? And leaving W-space aside, how will this encourage people to ever use a drone ship in normal space when this behavior is extended to normal space? I know CCP has hated drones for a long time, but there are players who actually like them, and having an entire weapon system effectively negated (along with billions of skillpoints) is dirty pool. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 02:32:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Gaius Sejanus stuff.
If you had read the other dev bog thread right above this one you would know that there is always a way out of a w-system. It might not lead to where you want but it will lead to somewhere. As far as drones you are going to have to micro them like you would in pvp and not just collect aggro from the room then send them out. This is ok becuase you will only be facing a few very powerful ai enabled rats at once instead of a swarm so just bring a buddy in a falcon to jam them all and have at it. Well that is if they are just as vulnerable to pvp tactics as player ships. Haven't got an answer to that question yet. |
ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.01.31 07:42:00 -
[218]
there remains 3 ancient races now think if they all get 2500 systems each in future expansions wold bring it up to 10000 wspace total that was discussed in the original blog on this so thinkg that will remain open i think a 30 min to 1 hour scan time for one pilot with reasonable skills would be ok in between sigs and anamolies |
Deliceous
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.01.31 07:47:00 -
[219]
I am interested to see the change of AI for large mining ops. Currently the formula is insert tank, get aggro and then bring in miners, then hauler. Kill belt, leave with miners, and hauler then leave with tank
I mean it would be funny if rats would actively try and bring in a cheap haulers to steal stuff from your get cans "Crap, that rat ninja looted my ore"
Or cycle though and attack haulers, or miners since for easier kills, making bringing in the 1 tank cut and paste routine a thing of the past. -No more AKF tanking for you.
Have rats try and hunt you down after you run out of a belt
Have some rats call in friends after a certain period of time
Have some rats attempt extortion - NPC Convo button appears Pay 500,000 Isk to have NPC warp off (Yes) (no) get rather costly if this same rat keeps coming by every 30 mins
Have rats actually set traps - leave hauler spawn at location once attacked it drops a Warp disruption Bubble and reinforcements arrive.
Would be nice to have times when rats that you have good factions with will come by and rep you as you destroy their enemy. or for those really high standing come in as a large fleet while you are low in structure .... save you then ransom some you!
Things like this would be nice as random things that happen. Would make the world of Eve more lively and interactive. Of course such things would provide lower reward than your standard rats as the reward is a breath of fresh air.
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.01.31 07:58:00 -
[220]
would just remove pvp then |
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.01.31 08:04:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Deliceous stuff
The new ai will only effect mining ops in a w-system. All other rats except the officer spawns in 0.0 will stay the same. For now.. |
Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.01.31 09:37:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Anyway, I hope CCP have learned from their biggest mistakes, like the drone regions etc.
In my opinion the biggest mistake was T2 BPO distribution thru lottery system. Mineral market was on it's way downward before drone regions already, altho yeah, drone regions were the last straw breaking the donkey. And I ahve to also to agree that mineral income in 0.0 is already quite good. Hell, hauler spawns were the thing luring me out there in the first place back when I was n00b, seeing a NPC drop more minerals than I could mine my shiny covertor in a week doing 8h days did the trick for me. There is limits what carebears can take, and hauler spawns were the straw breaking my resitance towards 0.0. After being a bit over a year 0.0 alliance footsoldier (in FIX) my corporation moved and me with it, then I found level 4 missions (there was no good lev 4 agents in Khanid anyway), took me almost a year to get good at them but when I did ... have been mostly in hi sec since then (did try low sec ones, but the new probing system flushed me out with the other 'real' low sec missionrunners) only visiting 0.0 when my corporation POS'es are under siege (and I absolutely hate current POS warfare with my every cell).
Now the AI. Information seen so far seems promising. Should it ever get to the point where it's also implemented in missions and missions themselves are more like PvP it might even revitalize low sec missionrunning (as currently PvE setup is just a fat pinjata for our lowly pirates who have half a clue what they are doing). Granted, as most people do lev 4 missions to fund their 'fun' part of EVE then being very careful with the usual missions is good path to take, as backfiring in this section could prove catastrophic. So, balance the AI sysem in new higher risk areas and import it later into missions in gradual way, ie letting the mission team create new missions that take into account increased capabilities of opposition and phae out 'old' systems. Hell, perhaps we might even get something more dynamic than current 'go shoot crap at belt X for 7900 LP' over and over again. Missionrunning does not have to be as grind as it currently is, as long as there is enoughj resources available to players to 'fund' their fun (missions are one of the very few 'unlimited' resources in EVE that scale very well with population).
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.01.31 11:12:00 -
[223]
id like to eventually see the 4 ancient races get 2500 wspace each that would give us 10k wspace systems, factional warfare for pirate factions, i guess the jove are off for a bit and planetary interaction has a place
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.31 15:37:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Tipz NexAstrum And An Anarchyyt, the trit came from the XETIC minerals
Oh the irony.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Kardath
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Posted - 2009.01.31 18:13:00 -
[225]
So does this mean the falcon is going to be overpowered in w space and the sleepers are going to come whine on the forums about it?
Seriously sweet if ECM is going to work on NPC's.
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Nyxium
Dwarfers Mining Guild
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Posted - 2009.01.31 18:38:00 -
[226]
I hope they are alien lifeforms and not another human faction. I love bug hunts. |
Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.01.31 19:09:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Gaius Sejanus
If this is just single systems, imagine going through into W-space, and having the wormhole timer close it 10 minutes later, and not appear again for another 2 weeks. Doesn't matter how much stuff there is to do in that one system...being completely deprived of normal space infrastructure is going to make this experience a vast pool of suck.
If you dont want to take the risk - dont go there. Simple.
C.
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permion
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Posted - 2009.01.31 22:41:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Nyxium I hope they are alien lifeforms and not another human faction. I love bug hunts.
they are atleast as human as the Jove. and likely moreso.
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Lady Ione
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Posted - 2009.02.01 00:52:00 -
[229]
Edited by: Lady Ione on 01/02/2009 00:52:44
Originally by: Gaius Sejanus
If this is just single systems, imagine going through into W-space, and having the wormhole timer close it 10 minutes later, and not appear again for another 2 weeks. Doesn't matter how much stuff there is to do in that one system...being completely deprived of normal space infrastructure is going to make this experience a vast pool of suck.
Honestly, why won't people listen to what dev's are saying quite clearly. There will ALWAYS be an active wormhole in any given w-space system. Ergo, there is ALWAYS a way out. |
Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.02.01 02:22:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Lady Ione Edited by: Lady Ione on 01/02/2009 00:52:44
Originally by: Gaius Sejanus
If this is just single systems, imagine going through into W-space, and having the wormhole timer close it 10 minutes later, and not appear again for another 2 weeks. Doesn't matter how much stuff there is to do in that one system...being completely deprived of normal space infrastructure is going to make this experience a vast pool of suck.
Honestly, why won't people listen to what dev's are saying quite clearly. There will ALWAYS be an active wormhole in any given w-space system. Ergo, there is ALWAYS a way out.
Yes, that's true. but currently we dont know (and probably won't know until folks have had a trance to actually try it) how difficult it will be to find wormholes. I'd speculate that in some situations these wormholes might be actually relatively difficult to locate (lets say W > K) - so its feasible you could end up meandering around in W-Space for some time.
Personally I dont have an issue with that, in fact the thought of 'exploration with the risk of getting stranded' is quite an appealing concept.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Kashimir
Otoko no Baito
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Posted - 2009.02.01 03:13:00 -
[231]
"...but at the moment, know they have comparable player attributes and thus require variations of PvP fits to engage."
WIN. This is exactly what I have wanted to see in EVE. Getting quite bored with overview full of NPCs doing.... well, nothing :)
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Daan Sai
Polytrope
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Posted - 2009.02.01 03:38:00 -
[232]
Please don't wait too long to bring the improved AI though all missions, not just the high end officers and sleepers.
Training up folks on the old npc rats is really not useful.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.01 04:45:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Daan Sai Please don't wait too long to bring the improved AI though all missions, not just the high end officers and sleepers.
Training up folks on the old npc rats is really not useful.
Indeed. I would just adore having the general in the last extravaganza room do something more than die horribly. Plus the bonus room could actually have a nice drop cause the npc in it would be uber and not pushovers like they currently are.
Do Want Now Plz.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zey Nadar
Gallente Heavily Utilized Mechanic Mayhem Einherjar Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.01 11:05:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Tesal
Question 2: Is this a drone nerf? I trained drones and Gallente as my chosen weapon/race. If NPC's are going to slaughter my drones in wormhole space and I can't replace them without an insane logistics setup or a legion of supply alts that doesn't bode well for me to go into that space. We lost the myrm (yah, ok, I get that), then we lost blasters, and now we are going to lose drones too? Seems like Gallente can't PVP or NPC any more if this happens. Seems to me that wormholes are making much worse some balance issues.
Extremely important question. I fly gallente too, and even now if rats get a whiff that there are drones to be shot at, I will lose my primary damage output quickly.
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BlondieBC
Minmatar Ardent Industrial Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.01 14:06:00 -
[235]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Some clarifications about the asteroid belt changes; as we plan to put battleship spawns in low-sec, we will make sure to adjust some null-sec spawns a bit to keep a logical risk/reward ratio. We don't want low-security space NPCs to become more profitable than null security ones.
We didn't consider any changes to high-security belt NPCs at the moment; having cruisers there is a possibility we need to debate, thanks for the feedback.
Care to give us any hints on the null sec adjustments?
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Daan Sai
Polytrope
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Posted - 2009.02.02 02:43:00 -
[236]
With all these changes to npcs and updating their combat modes to be more like PvP setups, plus the recent speed changes, can we *please please* have the deadspace ban on MWDs and warping in general removed!!!!
We'll fit warp scrams if necessary, but as far as I can see all the old arguments that lead to the warp limitations in missions no longer hold at all.
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Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.02 08:17:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Daan Sai With all these changes to npcs and updating their combat modes to be more like PvP setups, plus the recent speed changes, can we *please please* have the deadspace ban on MWDs and warping in general removed!!!!
We'll fit warp scrams if necessary, but as far as I can see all the old arguments that lead to the warp limitations in missions no longer hold at all.
As far as I'm aware it was originally placed for 3 reasons (1) To not let you buybass deadspace pockets by flying from first acceleration gate to next thru regular space (2) Speedtanking, it's powerful stuff if NPC do not change targets. (3) Refresh frequency. Your possible 'cone of interactions' is function of your speed (explained in one of the old devblogs). If you have a lot of crap lying around (like in missions) and you start moving fast then your data packets will get heavy (as EVE will send your client information for all that stuff in your 'possible interaction cone' more frequently than for stuff not in there). If I remember corect, it was a while ago when I looked at that.
It will need new dungeon designs tho that would take possibility of MWD's into account. Some current ones might still get abused if it would be just flatout restriction lifting. Then again if NPC's get 'proper AI' it would need new dungeons anyway as old ones with that number of 'real like' opponents would be just deathtraps no matter what you fly. |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.02.02 09:30:00 -
[238]
Are these marco proof? |
ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:14:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Nova Fox Are these marco proof?
wspace apparently is macro hard or macro resistant |
glassmanipulator
Lucian Alliance Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:16:00 -
[240]
"Sleepers and existing Officer spawns will receive such improved behavior and no other changes will be made to existing PvE interactions."
Yea cuz people get officer spawns all the time...
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:42:00 -
[241]
they are starting with officers at the moment probably leave it 2 months to guage how it all goes then start making modifications on the next expansion which might lead to another 2500 systems and 2 of 4 of the ancients coming out |
Strom Nekth
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Posted - 2009.02.03 03:48:00 -
[242]
Edited by: Strom Nekth on 03/02/2009 03:48:18
Originally by: Marlenus Edited by: Marlenus on 30/01/2009 22:00:19
Obviously it would make some gameplay sense for the difficulty of finding the hole to be scaled to the likely *value* of the hole. However, I'm not sure how to do this.
One possibility: Making larger-mass-limit holes harder to find. (I'd need some mumbo-jumbo to explain that.)
They already do this with gravimetric exploration sites, the larger the site the lower its inate signal strength. I don't remember reading any justification for it as it's particularly unconvincing that larger asteroids are harder to find than smaller ones. ;) For wormholes I suppose that smaller wormholes focus the wormhole radiation into a beam, whereas larger wormholes diffuse the radiation making them harder to pinpoint.
One possible idea might be for womholes to have an instability index. When you use a wormhole the instability index increases in proportion to the percentage of the remaining wormhole capacity that you use up. So if you burn up 1% of capacity scouting with a frigate it has a very small effect, but if you burn 30% of its remaining capacity with a battleship then the instability really spikes.
Instability decays naturally over time.
If you jump through a wormhole with a high instability index then you have a chance of getting lost and emerging at a different wormhole exit.
This would make deliberately closing wormholes either riskier (you may end up somewhere nasty or really far away) or more time consuming (you wait until the wormhole is stable again.) Both would reduce the ease of trapping someone else in W-space just by cycling the wormhole a few times which currently seems a very low risk form of griefing.
Fleets would get the option to all take the wormhole as one blob so they don't get scattered by the mechanic.
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.02.03 05:09:00 -
[243]
im guessing longer time and larger mass wormholes will be harder to locate than smaller mass and quick time wormholes.
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Angel Lightbringer
Caldari Dark Evolution Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.03 11:12:00 -
[244]
Edited by: Angel Lightbringer on 03/02/2009 11:13:46 -nvm-
-Angel |
Kashimir
Otoko no Baito
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Posted - 2009.02.03 17:08:00 -
[245]
Edited by: Kashimir on 03/02/2009 17:11:45 I guess this question will be answered in future blogs but I'd like to ask it anyway in case this thing haven't been considered.
Will Sleepers have ability to use drones?
I understand that it would be simply horrible if the NPCs in current missions used drones since it would be a HUGE swarm of them. But, I'm under the impression that Sleepers would be in smaller yet more challenging groups so I'd like to see some of their ship types deploy drones. Possibly even logistic or EW drones just to spice up things even further. Naturally this is a thing that needs to be thought of in scale of things but since I'm not aware of those scales yet I'll leave it like this.
Edit: Didn't read the whole thread so just ignore me if this have been already asked and answered.
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Rude Bwoy
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Posted - 2009.02.04 20:28:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Von Druid
Originally by: Tesal Question 1: Is any of this content for casual players, or for players who want a relaxed lifestyle. Are we going to have to have fleets to kill NPC's now? For people who play EvE in one hour time blocks, this will make the game impossible to play if they have to spend an hour setting up a fleet.
How will this make the whole game impossible to play for you? Not all content is meant for solo players in a massively multiplayer game, big surprise.
I agree with Tesal. Some folk only get time for an hour or so a week to play. I think it should be considered in the overall scheme of the game. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.04 21:11:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Rude Bwoy
Originally by: Von Druid
Originally by: Tesal Question 1: Is any of this content for casual players, or for players who want a relaxed lifestyle. Are we going to have to have fleets to kill NPC's now? For people who play EvE in one hour time blocks, this will make the game impossible to play if they have to spend an hour setting up a fleet.
How will this make the whole game impossible to play for you? Not all content is meant for solo players in a massively multiplayer game, big surprise.
I agree with Tesal. Some folk only get time for an hour or so a week to play. I think it should be considered in the overall scheme of the game.
According to the devs a portion of the new content will be soloable if you find a high sec empire to w-space connection that has a low level w-system. Possibly even higher level w-systems once the new ai enabled npc tactics are figured out and a weakness can be exploited.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2009.02.06 19:20:00 -
[248]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Our goal for the Sleepers was to make each encounter more like a PvP battle, so if you bring a solo BS against a gang of Sleepers you are going to lose, hard. Unless you are that good, guess we'll have to see.
Well if it's anything like pvp, our fleets should lose half their ships. Is it going to be that profitable in wormspace to expect your rigged t2 fit bs to die? ... and not just one, but many? --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Merouk Baas
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Posted - 2009.02.07 01:18:00 -
[249]
Bit late coming to this discussion, but I wanted to add a few comments:
1. PVP in this game is a lot about knowing when to fight and when to run away, so if you're making PVE be like that, it's not gonna be like PVE anywhere else (in any other game). People aren't used to disengaging/running away from half the fights in PVE in other games or this one. They're used to dying a lot to a boss encounter, until the raid group gets its act together, or until better gear is acquired, but they're not used to running away based on what spawns (which is what happens with PVP).
2. If you're gonna have AGGRO mechanics, you better damn well give us a good UI that displays aggro information, and give us taunts/aggro management. Yeah I know that "taunt" sounds like **** that shouldn't be in this game, but it goes with "aggro" and there's a reason for all those raid mods and threat meters that WoW has. Don't turn this game into even more of a UI/frustration nightmare than it already is.
3. If PVE is going to be "challenging" (i.e. not profitable), please consider buffing mining as a means to gain ISKs, and honestly manufacturing needs looking at, too. Apply some AI to NPC buy orders for T1 ships and the like, so that the newbie who wants to get into manufacturing for profit can do so even if no player will ever buy T1 ships anymore.
4. PVE should be fun. It's a different kind of fun than PVP, though.
5. "Bang for the buck"... EVE doesn't have bind-on-pickup indestructible gear (purples). Anything a boss may drop will be a one-use ship / item, there only until you run into your first PVP misfortune. The only way I can think of that you can have "bang for the buck" in the same way that a raid boss rewards you with purples is if you implement speciality shops: "You kill that Onyxia guy and you can buy this rare ship from us from then on, whenever you need it." Or, auto-insurance: if your rare boss-drop ship gets destroyed, you'll find another one in the nearest station, automagically, cause you're special and we like you for killing X and saving the universe, and blah blah blah. |
Kashimir
Otoko no Baito
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Posted - 2009.02.07 02:03:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Merouk Baas Bit late coming to this discussion, but I wanted to add a few comments: 1.2.3.4.5.
2. I my opinion the fact that you can see the NPC targeting you is more that enough to tell you that it is going to aggress you. I would love to see Sleepers warp after me even when I try to escape and hunt me down until they notice that they are outnumbered. (Ok I'm probably pushing it) :)
3. NPCs were pulled of the market at the point when there was enough players in eve for the market to work properly. There is no point to bring em back. As long as there are newbies in manufacturing there will be even amount of newbies flying t1 ships.
4. True. I hope we shall finally have the fun PvE :)
5. If there will ever be such an auto-insurance in New Eden I would think that the Player-Corporation that is providing it must be out of their minds.
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Merouk Baas
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Posted - 2009.02.07 03:31:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Kashimir
2. I my opinion the fact that you can see the NPC targeting you is more that enough to tell you that it is going to aggress you.
3. NPCs were pulled of the market at the point when there was enough players in eve for the market to work properly. There is no point to bring em back. [...] 5. If there will ever be such an auto-insurance in New Eden I would think that the Player-Corporation that is providing it must be out of their minds.
EVE allows the locking of multiple targets, unlike other games where only one target at a time can be picked. Thus, the fact that you're targetted in EVE doesn't mean aggression, but you're right, there is the yellow-flashing vs. red-flashing thing in the overview, which may be enough.
T1 manufacturing isn't profitable, right now, and hasn't been for some time. As a large portion of the playerbase moves to T2 and T3, yet the newbie manufacturer is still forced to start with T1 due to his lack of skills trained... there could be a need to bring the NPC's back. But, I'll agree to disagree.
Insurance... shrug. How can EVE have "epic drops" to go with the epic NPCs? BPO's? heh
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.02.08 11:24:00 -
[252]
epic NPCs could drop 5-10 run bpcs over the normal 1 and 3 drops |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:20:00 -
[253]
Just want to know... will there be fixes for heavy interdictors? -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Drone 16
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:13:00 -
[254]
Hello, Read through most of this post, forgive me if this has been answered before. If this new NPC will require more of a PVP fitting to take down will they be vulnerable to NOS and Nuet? Would only seem fair that if they will use advanced tactics, we should be able to employ all of our pvp options. Thanks
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Phoenix Torp
Caldari Kingmakers
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Posted - 2009.02.18 21:17:00 -
[255]
Is planned to define the new concepts for the exploration related skills?
I had a plan with Astrometric Pinpointing / Triangulation, Astrometrics, Signal Acquisition and Covert Ops and until they are defined have made a sub-plan for Hacking / Archaeology. To be sure I don't waste the time ------ Skills |
Marielle TueurDeCoeur
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Posted - 2009.02.24 18:08:00 -
[256]
Hi, sorry, don't have time to read the whole thread as I'm at work and don't want to waste too much time doing non-work related things. :)
I really hope EWAR (scrams/nos/neut/ECM/etc.) will be effective on the Sleepers.
Also, any idea on if the Sleepers will have cloaking capabilites? This would exciting! :)
Overall, I am EXTREMELY excited about the M10 release and am actually building a new computer to fully take advantage of it.
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Veng3ance
Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.02.27 16:23:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Rex Lashar Edited by: Rex Lashar on 29/01/2009 20:31:18
Here's my feedback; how seriously you take it is up to you.
1. "mining with your guns" is a huge issue.
2. Don't, under any circumstances, boost bounties.
3. Static asteroid belts will die anyway, changing the risk/reward model.
4. NPCs might be dumb, but at least they should warp scramble.
Rex, while I like your first point I think the rest of your post is trying to steer PVE in the wrong direction.
1. First, on Hauler Spawns. I agree, mining hasn't been a solid profession in EVE in almost 3-years. Anything that can take away from the vast supply of minerals is a good thing for mining. HOWEVER, those spawns also help tremendously with the gathering of low-end minerals as most of the spawns drop Trit and Pyrite, do you really want to MINE Trit?
2. The Bounties for an individual battleship should not go up yes. But defiantly the isk/hour in low-quality 0.0 MUST be boosted. People have NO REASON to leave empire and their level 4's at the moment. Most agents will make you better Isk then 80% of 0.0. We want more people in low-sec and 0.0 to increase PVP opportunities!!! That means a boost to those areas MUST BE MADE.
Players will NEVER migrate to more hostile areas unless the rewards are balanced to equal that risk. And high-end moons don't count, most players never see the rewards from high-end alliance money making. I think I speak for thousands of players when I say a boost to 0.0 AND low-sec PVE has been LONG overdue.
3 & 4: I think both these comments go together. At the moment with current game mechanics, spawns DO NOT need to scramble more than they already do. You say yourself "a good player can pinpoint you in 30 seconds". An increase in scrambling for rats would just make things frustrating NOT fun. Even in most exploration sites you can easily be scanned down by a good prober in 2-3 minutes.
Let the player do the tackling, not the NPC's.
IF everything was changed to exploration mechanics (ratting and asteroid belts) THEN I could see a change to more scrambling and tackling by NPC's, but right now it would be a joke.
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Nakobi
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Posted - 2009.03.15 09:24:00 -
[258]
I've noticed a reduction in faction spawns, like dread guristas and shadow serpentis.
is this the case? has the frequency been nerfed?
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Anemonae Ambrosia
Gallente V e x i l l u m
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Posted - 2009.03.16 02:28:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Veng3ance
2. The Bounties for an individual battleship should not go up yes. But defiantly the isk/hour in low-quality 0.0 MUST be boosted. People have NO REASON to leave empire and their level 4's at the moment. Most agents will make you better Isk then 80% of 0.0. We want more people in low-sec and 0.0 to increase PVP opportunities!!! That means a boost to those areas MUST BE MADE.
Players will NEVER migrate to more hostile areas unless the rewards are balanced to equal that risk. And high-end moons don't count, most players never see the rewards from high-end alliance money making. I think I speak for thousands of players when I say a boost to 0.0 AND low-sec PVE has been LONG overdue.
I agree 100% lets get a freakin campaign going
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