Where do you get the idea that they're charging you for it?

It says so on my bank statements.

EVE: Spaceships, Industry, Mining, etc.
WiS: Avatars, ambulation, etc.

The two are very different game types and require a very different focus. No matter that there has been previews of ambulation; it is still a very different game type and game style. I think that is where the disconnect for some players come from and is one of the reasons I suggest that WiS content becomes an optional part of EVE, along with targeting it at the type of players that want an avatar based game in a science fiction universe.

And that's why there's a separate suggestion for wanting this to be a separate game. I can definitely see how it would benefit to make part or all of WiS to be a separate game, but at the same time I don't understand the hostility at trying to come up with ideas to make WiS a viable part of EVE as well.

So, while your suggestion may have merit it doesn't discount those who want to find ways to use the technology to improve gameplay aspects or options with Spaceships, Industry, Mining, etc...

Second, there isn't a reason why the WiS gameplay would be mandatory and I've yet to see proof to the contrary.

Additionally, if WiS was a separate game, then it wouldn't be Capsuleers who were doing it. In order to be a Capsuleer you have to be able to pilot a capsule.

Explain that, please. I don't quite follow what you are trying to say there.

It wouldn't. The 10+GB download would be though. (Or whatever size all the assets for a compelling WiS experience ends up being)

OK... CCP Karkur asked for improvements to avatars and WiS, so i come up with a little list... must be noted that most of it is beyond the reach of a skeleton crew like Team Avatar's and would require art work. BTW, most of the list has been rescued from an old thread by CCP Solomon, which i answered to with my main months ago.

Avatar additions:

- the ability to move the lips (simulated orbicularis oris and buccinator muscles) to show the teeth and make some actual smiles

- a range of face/arms/shoulder moles and birthmarks (would rock to have a Gurista bunny birthmark... )

- more hairstyles (racial hairstyles included, specially replicating the old avatars')

- EARRINGS, not piercings, but actual EARRINGS (chandeliers, hoops, studs, drops...)

- rings, necklaces, wristbands & other jewels

- apply sleeve tattoos technology to legs to add socks/stocking/tights to wear under skirts/shorts

- what about painting fingernails? And what about painting foot nails and wearing sandals?

- Lavander/violet/plum lipstick & eyeshadow (pretty much please... how difficult can be?)

- fantasy colors for hair: electric blue, lime green, cherry red...

- a shade intensity slider for hair colors, like the one in make up colors

- NEx (cough) prices down by 70% + release of the 100+ Sisi / market tab undelivered items



Avatar fixes:

- squint eyes

- squint eyes

- bra strap bug for old Incursion characters

- the curve of the shoulder top has got low poly count and looks segmented under certain poses

- tight clothes wrap around the bottom of larger breast sizes... looks unrealistic and quite awful

- did i mention squint eyes?


Just for starters.

If someone wants to have discussion about WiS it doesn't have to degrade into "this shouldn't be part of EVE" or "this should be its own separate thing". We should be able to just have a discussion about WiS features that we'd like to see. Things that would be relevant to a capsuleer and add to the gameplay experience of those who might use it with EVE.

It says so on my bank statements.

do I need to leave the team for you guys to believe that the team is actually working on prototyping and avatars?
I feel really bad if I am hurting my team's credibility and if people see me as some proof that CCP is lying to you, when all I am trying to do is to help players out.
I guess at the end of the day people will just believe what they want to believe, and I should probably not waste my days off getting annoyed at stuff like that.

Karkur, I know from experience that some people are simply never happy. You're right, don't waste your time getting angy. Just focus on making a product that you're proud of, while we keep happily playing.

Karkur, I know from experience that some people are simply never happy. You're right, don't waste your time getting angy. Just focus on making a product that you're proud of, while we keep happily playing.

What was the topic now...? Oh, yes, suggestions for avatar content.

I've come up i with another suggestion to put avatars to use with "baby steps":

Integrate full body preview on the new web site.

Same as CCP Ann & al. built that 3D rendering engine to show up ships, i wonder wether the Full body preview engine could be added to the web site. Enter a section called "Meet the capsuleers" with a "search character" function and there you go, the "official" portrait + bio + full body preview so people can show up their shape and clothes. This in turn could lead to a new threadnaught about rating full body avatars (FBAs?) and very specially would add some interest to the existing content. Plus would add sense to the customization options i already posted above.

"Fast and dirty", it would show some actual commitment to adding new WiS content and not just getting a return from Incarna's leftovers, all while Team Avatar could keep prototyping the long road to Tipperary.

I would like to introduce you to my good friend Network Effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect

If adding a feature that does not appeal to you nonetheless brings more players to the game, network effect ensures that you attain some gain from it anyway.

They participate in the markets where you want to buy and sell things, even if they never fly in space themselves for you to shoot at they are likely to bring friends along who will.

If you can't see far enough past your nose to see how you stand to benefit from having a more diverse game with features that appeal to people who aren't you please do everyone a favor and stop posting on the forums.

See at the bottom what WiS has done to the popularity of EVE. You might want to check your own nose. I do not want WiS for several reasons. Seeing how the player numbers took a dive is another good reason to get rid of it, don't you agree?

Do things like "Golden Ammo", "NEX" and so forth ring bells?

NEX is just a part of WiS. I do not see you having a point other than that you want to keep holding on to something, which has caused the game harm. Again, we have our opinions. You do not need to defend yours to me. It was not you who thinks he needs to teach me his view.

Blunt and short, we can't trust your company on EVE avatars unless its acts match its words. Gray boxes in a gray environment & running scripts at each other can become vampires or capsuleers with equal ease. They don't commit CCP to anything. And so far Team Avatar's deliveries for 2012 are leftovers of Incarna, much as Crucible delivered the other racial CQs.

And there are no plans for new deliveries. There is no commitment to develop "baby steps" to keep improving WiS, rather a vague claim to be protoyping how to climb the Everest with your hands tied to your back. Good. It's nice to have a loooong term goal. But as we say in my country, a bit of "take it" is worth a thousand "we will give you".

And what CCP is giving us is a fraction of what they said they would give to us back in 2011, with no plans to deliver the rest of stuff, let alone anything that wouldn't take 3 years to put our hands on...

... If players could stab, shoot and maul each other in stations how much differently would WiS be perceived? In my view, some form of PVP is ultimately necessary - EVEs most vocal player base vehemently demands PVP and its inclusion would win over to a great extent those that view WiS as nothing more than space barbie eye candy. ...

There are many good games out there and combining them all into one might sound like a brilliant idea, but it is actually only a waste of resources, because you already have the choice to play them all.

I have a link for you:

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

See at the bottom what WiS has done to the popularity of EVE. You might want to check your own nose. I do not want WiS for several reasons. Seeing how the player numbers took a dive is another good reason to get rid of it, don't you agree?

I do however understand your perspective that, for you at least, EVE Online offers sufficient game play and does not need an additional environment to make it more fun.

Since I missed in GD, I'll just put my 2 isk in here:
Stations are a great place to put content that simply can't be made to fit in space.

The industrial side of the game in particular could use some love, and stations are the place where research and production happen, so they are the ideal place to put real content to allow player interaction with those processes.

What we should definitely be doing is communicating our efforts on the Avatar stuff much more frequently.

(...)

Honestly, why should they waste the time to build a preview of the avatars?

(...)

[quote=CCP Bayesian]
When is this communication that we've been promised going to start with regards to WiS?

Because it already has been built, my friend.

Full body view

As you can notice it is not the same 3D render engine as the one used in CQ, but a simpler one. And, as we already have a simple 3D engine on the website, it is not a stretch of imagination to wonder wether would be technically feasible for CCP Ann & al. to implement the function I suggested above.

The development of the Incarna prototypes is being done by EVE developers. WoD is being developed entirely separately by a different team, in a different office, in a different country. Whilst you're right and gameplay can be modified to fit any scenario you fancy we are developing with EVE in mind and always have been. Don't mistake our focus on gameplay minute by minute for totally ignoring the bigger picture of how that sits in the EVE Universe and importantly what makes EVE the game it is.

We are currently exclusively committed to prototyping until early June right now.

Please see some of my replies for more information on why we don't consider incremental development of WiS to be of best value:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=675525#post675525
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=673620#post673620
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=667741#post667741

What we should definitely be doing is communicating our efforts on the Avatar stuff much more frequently.

I do not think you got my point. I believe that it cannot add more fun to it. Just like adding more races and more weapon systems and T1 ships will not add more fun to EVE, because we already have a decent variety of ships. An avatar is not more than a spaceship that takes clothing instead of modules.

Sorry, but I don't get what you mean here. EVE, apparently, is not about WiS, which is exactly what we are afraid of. Where does WiS fit into CCP Torfitrans' "circle of life"?

Or maybe you mean that WiS is supposed to be as FiS is? No solo, no casual, no consequences for griefing? Will WiS end up being about camping "the door" with 50 thugs to steal somebody's implants?