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Siobhan
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.01 00:02:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Siobhan on 01/02/2009 00:02:22
CVA & the Amarr Militia
Seven months ago the Curatores Veritatis Alliance made a statement in support of the newly established Amarrian Militia: http://www.eve-search.com/thread/795659/page/1
As part of that announcement our diplomat made the following statement:
We the CVA take great pride in our longstanding service to the Empire in bringing peace and safety to all Amarrians and true Neutral citizens who reside with Amarr Empire and Providence space. With that point clear, ANY member of the 24th Imperial Crusade who may choose to to go rogue and engages in the heretical act of piracy against their fellow citizens or against other true neutrals, will be hunted and destroyed with extreme prejudice. Piracy is a devious sin, made more vile if done whilst flying under the flag of Holy Mother Amarr.
We therefore very strongly encourage all pilots of the 24th Imperial Crusade to continue the longstanding efforts of your fellow Amarrian Loyalist Organizations, and maintain a strict adherence to NRDS Rules of Engagement while flying within the borders of the Amarr Empire and Amarrian Providence.
Again, let us speak plainly and clearly: Piracy in Amarr Space or in Providence will NOT be tolerated in ANY form. Not by the usual suspects, and not by members of the 24th Imperial Militia.
Unfortunately, despite significant diplomatic efforts, many members of the Amarr Militia have continued to commit crimes against Amarrian residents both in low-sec and Holy Amarrian Providence and as a result have ended up on the CVA and our allies KOS lists. This has in turn led to incidents which have worsened relations between the CVA and the Militia.
Various diplomatic efforts were made to avoid conflict between CVA and the Amarr militia, led by staunchly loyal Amarrian corporations such as PIE and Vigilia Valeria. These efforts included æno fly zonesÆ and even offers of compensation for innocent pilots killed in Amarr space by piratical elements of the Militia.
Unfortunately the chaotic nature of the Militia (no formal leadership, no standards of recruitment etc) and the fact that many anti-Amarrian and anti-CVA agitators and spies have infiltrated its ranks meant that all such agreements have proved worthless and unenforceable.
The CVA is no longer willing to work with the Amarr Militia as it is currently comprised. Vast amounts or diplomatic and leadership time have gone into developing good relationships but regrettably relations only seem to worsen. We are no longer prepared to tolerate the criminal elements within the Militia or waste diplomatic time negotiating with an organisation that lacks clear leadership.
While neither CVA, nor our allies, will be deliberately seeking out fights with criminals in the Amarr Militia (and of course the entirety of the Minmatar Militia remains KOS to us), neither will be prevented from doing business in and patrolling areas of low-sec Amarrian space - and if this leads to clashes with reds in the Militia then so be it. We would remind law-abiding members of the Militia that should they seek to protect known pirates from justice û they too will be considered criminals.
The CVA remain committed to the extension of the Amarrian Empire and to maintaining security in low-sec Amarrian space and Amarrian Providence. We remain committed to enforcing Amarrian law and order in formerly lawless space and we remain committed to the betterment of the Empire.
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Siobhan
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.01 00:04:00 -
[2]
(Continued)
While we want the Amarr Militia to be successful on behalf of the Empire û we do not want this to be at the expense of honour. While the Minmatar may willingly recruit every random criminal to their cause in a vain attempt to ensure victory we believe the Amarr Militia should aim for a higher standard. Unfortunately we do not believe that the current makeup and structure of the Militia enables that to happen, despite the best efforts and influence of loyalist organisations such as PIE and VV, and as such we are withdrawing our support until such time as this is corrected.
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Derus Grobb
Selectus Pravus Lupus
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Posted - 2009.02.01 01:24:00 -
[3]
Best
CVA
Thread
Ever |
MirrorGod
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.02.01 01:25:00 -
[4]
Edited by: MirrorGod on 01/02/2009 01:27:15 *A camera-drone follows MirrorGod off his interceptor class hull "TES Guardian". Walking with a black cigarette, he looks directly into the lens, trying in vain to conceal a cackle.*
...
*He raises a hand, as if to speak, and then shakes it off, face exploding with with smoke and laughter*
...
*He tries once more, eventually finishing in a long, drawn out laugh.*
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JIm Hammer
Minmatar Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.02.01 01:25:00 -
[5]
Good call. Unfortunately I will still be shooting you. "Get off my Lawn"
YARRRR |
Sarsha Lyonsbane
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Posted - 2009.02.01 03:18:00 -
[6]
So... you are responding to some clashes in 0.0 by adding More confusion and giving an advantage to the worst enemies of the empire ?
By blocking Militia work you will make Minmatars stronger...
Great Move :-D The empress will be certainly happy with this !
Amarrians are really strange people... no wait... the CVA has no more Amarrians in it :-P His CEO is a Gallentean like me :-P |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.01 05:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sarsha Lyonsbane you are responding to some clashes in 0.0
Actually, this was largely precipitated by clashes in the Bleaklands themselves...though the few incidents in Providence that occured only complicated the issues occuring in low security space.
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Forty Three
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.01 05:58:00 -
[8]
I welcome this announcement with open arms. Finally CVA and U'K will be able to collaborate on something.. let us destroy the Amarr militia together!!
*Forty Three struggles to keep a straight face, then explodes in loud, deep laughter*
-----------------------------------------------
UNITY!!!
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T 2
Minmatar Tribal Core
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Posted - 2009.02.01 08:08:00 -
[9]
I have to say that this move was something I have been waiting for. The Militias of all four factions are so infested with malicious pirating thieves that a proper communication and co-operation is very hard.
I tip my hat to CVA for trying so long to negotiate with the Amarr militia - even though the result was foreseen.
However it makes one sad to see one worthy advisory leave the field of battle and that is saying much - you are Amarr.. I sure hope to see you in space even you are leaving the warzone - my rifter's auto-cannons are waiting..
Best Regards, T 2, Tribal Core ----------- Member of Tribal Core - fighting for Minmatar Militia. Death to Amarr; long live the Minmatar Nation.
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Nur AlHuda
Amarr Callide Vulpis
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Posted - 2009.02.01 10:01:00 -
[10]
As Amarr Militia is under imperial jurisdiction all corporations signed up or individuals violating the imperial code of conduct aka commiting open piracy should be branded as traitors to the empire and killed on sight.
Amarrian empire had given the opportunity to allow peregrines joining the militia work for the goals of the empire but this should be not used for personal gains. |
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O Thief
The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.01 11:11:00 -
[11]
I, too, have the Amarr Militia on my KOS list.
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Scagga Laebetrovo
Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.02.01 11:31:00 -
[12]
Ammatar Free Corps Response
We of the Free Corps recognise the achievements of our Amarrian allies. We do not forget that the Curatores Veritatis Alliance has established a flourishing Amarrian Providence, and indeed its logistical support to the 24th Imperial Crusade. The loyal pilots of 24th Imperial Crusade in turn have succeeded in reversing the situation on the frontlines against the tribals.
It is without doubt that the Empire benefits from both of these forces achieving their goals. That the 24th Imperial Crusade is now working independent of the established pioneers of providence is something we believe should not tarnish either of their efforts.
May their successes continue. |
William Ytiri
YTiRi Retail
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Posted - 2009.02.01 12:36:00 -
[13]
Next to good fruits, a good tree can also give rotten fruits. It does not make the tree rotten also. However, I see your concerns. Possibilities for organisation within the Militia's is indeed limited, but it is up to Concord to change that.
It is possible to put a corporation within the Faction Militia's that is completely up to any standard. I think that is the way to go for the development of any Faction Militia. A core of dependable, trustworthy Faction Corporations working together with support of outsider alliances/corporations and the rest of the Militia can be used as cannonfodder or just be ignored until they prove their worthiness or usefullness.
Nevertheless, good luck in your further endeavours, as your previous achievements are still an inspiration to a lot of capsuleers.
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.01 17:27:00 -
[14]
The message from the CVA remains consistent, at least, 'do what we say, behave as we expect you to behave, shoot only those we permit you to shoot or suffer our wrath'.
Quote: Unfortunately the chaotic nature of the Militia (no formal leadership, no standards of recruitment etc) and the fact that many anti-Amarrian and anti-CVA agitators and spies have infiltrated its ranks meant that all such agreements have proved worthless and unenforceable.
We know that in the CVA's mind 'anti-Amarrian' and 'anti-CVA' are essentially synonymous, such is their arrogance and hubris. A translation of 'anti-CVA agitators' for general consumption would read 'people who refuse to obey the CVA's every whim and carry out their own business, in their own way, without reference to the CVA or its arbitrarily-imposed rules'.
It's no great surprise to me that the CVA, perceiving a rival power formation in Amarrian politics that it cannot control or suborn, decides to take a high-handed and hostile attitude. This is what the CVA has done with every Amarrian organisation that has refused to lick its suppurating rectum.
In short, no news here.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.02.01 18:42:00 -
[15]
Again another small step to take CVA further and further away from Amarrian extremism. Very good news indeed.
Still, naturally, no reason to consider neutralizing our standings yet, but one can see some glimmers of hope that in some foreseeable future CVA will have the guts to completely pull themselves away from under the influence of the Empire.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Diplomat Electus Matari
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today. |
Alistair Cononach
Amarr The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.01 19:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite In short, no news here.
The Cosmopolite
Indeed Cosmopolite. You've come forth with the utterly predictable long-winded blowhardism we've all come to expect from the Stir Fiction anarchists. Those who can, do. Those who cannot write endless manifestos about their own self-importance. Clearly, most objective observers know where Stir Fiction, who ran screaming in failure every time they've come to Providence, stand in that regard. What next, plan on claiming we "never undock"? Please.
The fact is, we in the CVA have longstanding standards and priciples to uphold. Defending Providence and Imperial low-sec space against piracy and the wanton slaughter of neutrals is one of those principles. The simple act of becomming a mercenary or privateer for the milita does not change who and what we fight against, and must defend against. Actions and deeds speak far louder than mere milita membership ever could.
We made all of this very explicitly clear when the militia was formed, and we make it clear again here and now.
There is very little CVA can do about the fact that the Empire has chosen to not limit who it accepts to fight it's proxy war. There is no question that next to the long-time loyalists of unquestionable integrity and standing such as my former brothers of PIE, there are also a wide variety of mercenary pirate s**** under the militia banner, looking for nothing more than a quick isk, a convenient shield from its enemies, or the simple enjoyment of shooting people with someone more importants blessing.
Hell, even the Stir Fiction could fight for Amarr if they chose, with no limitation or questioning by Imperial Recruiters. Such is the way of things today. We cannot control that.
But what CVA CAN control is our own adherance to our principles and beliefs. And let me make this very very clear, we in the CVA WILL ALWAYS stand for our core principles and beliefs, regardless of any criticism or sniping we may face in these public comm channels.
We in the CVA, our Providence allies, and the vast number of neutrals who live in our space, have chosen the path we are on. The rightious path. God's path. End of story.
Good day Mr. Cosmopolite. Perhaps one day we will see you in space again.
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.01 20:58:00 -
[17]
I think the tone and the length of the remarks issued by the paramilitary Cononach speaks volumes.
So I will merely smile, reflect on the numerous victories we have had over the allegedly invincible Amarrian fleets whenever we have conducted operations in Providence and just let your fevered denunciations stand without comment.
You will indeed, sooner or later, see me and my comrades in space again and again and again.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.02.01 21:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite So I will merely smile, reflect on the numerous victories we have had over the allegedly invincible Amarrian fleets whenever we have conducted operations in Providence and just let your fevered denunciations stand without comment.
Yes, the crushing effect of these "victories" must be why CVA stations aren't popping up like mushrooms all over Providence.
...Wait, CVA stations are popping up like mushrooms all over Providence.
Also, your involvement against the Amarr militia must be why they haven't taken back every system they lost in the first few weeks of the campaign and aren't making advances into territory that has belonged to the Minmatar Republic for centuries.
...Wait, they have taken back every system they lost and they are making advances into the Minmatar Republic. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.01 22:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite ...suffer our wrath
Originally by: The Cosmopolite decides to take a high-handed and hostile attitude.
You misunderstand the situation entirely and massively overstate CVA's approach. Cooperation with the 24th Imperial Crusade has proved impossible given the amount of CVA-hostile (and in most cases out-right piratical) elements of the 24th Crusade, so CVA cooperation will no longer be attempted. We will carry out our business in the Bleaklands with no ill-will to the 24th Crusade but we will engage CVA-hostile elements within the 24th Crusade as necessary.
The only difference now is simply if otherwise neutral elements within the 24th Imperial Crusade fire upon CVA vessels at the behest of/in support of CVA-hostile elements within the 24th Imperial Crusade, we will no longer seek a peaceful solution to the issue. We will handle our business in each tactical situation in a way that is tactically sufficient instead of diplomatically sufficient. Diplomacy has not worked through months of effort.
It is curious to see a Fractionite condemn this approach: when neutrals in Providence engaged Fractionite vessels engaged in combat with the CVA, Fractionite forces handled the situation in precisely the same way. Was this also because Star Fraction was put out that the Providence locals "refused to lick its suppurating rectum?" |
Saul Dhampir
Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.02 00:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Alistair Cononach Blar blar blar
What was that you said about long-winded blowhardism? |
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Deckhard Aura
Amarr Sarum A Fortiori
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Posted - 2009.02.02 00:51:00 -
[21]
Sarum A Fortiori has dropped from the Militia due to similar problems with leadership and organization. It is difficult to work with groups you know you cannot fully trust.
I find our recent progress more a lack of the Minmatar Militia willing to fight than anything, I see no possible change in the outcome of this war.
Amarr Victor. |
Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative
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Posted - 2009.02.02 04:45:00 -
[22]
I'll notify Righteous Fury of this.
He could do with a good laugh today.
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.02 04:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Garreck
You misunderstand the situation entirely and massively overstate CVA's approach. Cooperation with the 24th Imperial Crusade has proved impossible given the amount of CVA-hostile (and in most cases out-right piratical) elements of the 24th Crusade, so CVA cooperation will no longer be attempted. We will carry out our business in the Bleaklands with no ill-will to the 24th Crusade but we will engage CVA-hostile elements within the 24th Crusade as necessary.
The only difference now is simply if otherwise neutral elements within the 24th Imperial Crusade fire upon CVA vessels at the behest of/in support of CVA-hostile elements within the 24th Imperial Crusade, we will no longer seek a peaceful solution to the issue. We will handle our business in each tactical situation in a way that is tactically sufficient instead of diplomatically sufficient. Diplomacy has not worked through months of effort.
It is curious to see a Fractionite condemn this approach: when neutrals in Providence engaged Fractionite vessels engaged in combat with the CVA, Fractionite forces handled the situation in precisely the same way. Was this also because Star Fraction was put out that the Providence locals "refused to lick its suppurating rectum?"
A nice attempt, Garreck, but it falls short because the CVA do not hold to the standards that the Star Fraction use in determining who is and isn't hostile. Rather, the CVA uses a varied mix of ingredients û actual hostile action against the CVA, hostile action against allies, alleged piracy, hearsay, lies told it by lickspittles, lies told its command by pilots with a grudge or desire to ease out economic rivals, base greed on its own part and various other low motives û thrown haphazardly into its diplomatic cookpot by a gang of evil old men, once all Amarrian warlords, now presided over by a corrupted Gallente wolfshead, and used to excuse its arbitrary hostile action against anyone it thinks is a threat to its hegemony in Providence.
We know that this has historically included those who consider themselves loyal to the Amarr Empire. We know that such have either bended the knee to the CVA to gain 'rights' to use of territory, moons, mineral belts, etc. in the CVA's empire or they have been forcibly ejected while always being accused of being 'pirates', which latter term is the CVA's preferred cover-all label for people it wants to slander as a prelude to removing them as a thorn in its flesh.
You say that the Star Fraction dealt with neutrals who aggressed us at the CVA's behest by the use of deadly force. Yes, true enough. But only those we actually saw take hostile action against us with our own eyes. We didn't shoot neutrals who allegedly 'pirated' some tinpot client alliance of ours. We didn't shoot neutrals who allegedly used Providence as a 'base for piracy'. We didn't interfere in disputes between neutrals and friends by castigating the neutrals as 'pirates' and proceeding to wage war both physical and propagandist against them. We didn't, most importantly, attack or threaten to attack anyone for their choice of rules of engagement. You are the gang that does that, not us. And you are the gang who here above give notice that this is what you're going to do again.
Except this time you are going to attack people who fly under the banner of the Amarr Empire itself. It is clear enough that the CVA don't like the fact that there is now a large concentration of Amarrian loyalist capsuleers who carry out their business on behalf of the Empire without asking themselves if the CVA would approve.
I don't condemn for a second the CVA responding as anyone would to direct hostile action. I simply think that more than that is being said here. I think this can be fairly read as a clear attempt to threaten and bully the Amarr militia into doing what the CVA wants. I simply say this is of a piece with the CVA approach to 'diplomacy'.
The Cosmopolite
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Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.02 05:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite We didn't shoot neutrals who allegedly 'pirated' some tinpot client alliance of ours.
It's a shame you would view any allies of Star Fraction in such a light, Cosmopolite. "Tinpot client?" Eesh.
I'm proud to say that we hold our allies in very high regard, we honor their word and we honor our commitments to them. Such is the "beast" that is Amarrian Providence. |
Hardin
Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris Ordo Magna
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Posted - 2009.02.02 06:36:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Hardin on 02/02/2009 06:41:52
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
I don't condemn for a second the CVA responding as anyone would to direct hostile action. I simply think that more than that is being said here. I think this can be fairly read as a clear attempt to threaten and bully the Amarr militia into doing what the CVA wants.
As a known enemy of Amarr I really don't see why any statement of yours on this issue has any credibility here, other than being a transparent attempt to sow discord.
However, just to clarify we are not threatening nor bullying the Militia. We have simply stated our new policy. If the Militia wants to alter its behaviour because of that then that is up to them. We have stated our position clearly and publicly and the Militia now knows where we stand.
We want the Militia to be successful, but while its ranks are filled with anti-Amarrian agitators (many of them no doubt planted by yourself and other enemies of the Empire) we have no option but to stand by our principles when it comes to piracy in Amarrian space.
Contrary to the image that you and your anti-Amarrian band want to perpetuate the CVA KOS list is not some random arbitrary listing that we have made up on the spur of the moment. It is a list based primarily of those who pirate in low-sec Amarrian space or Amarrian Providence. It is constantly revised and updated by our, and our allies', diplomats. Individuals and organisations come off and on all the time. All of this is logged and solid reasons given and our records date back for many years. Occasionally mistakes are made but in those instances CVA (or our allies) will usually pay compensation.
Unfortunately, the pirates who lurk in the Amarr Militia do not pay compensation. Nor do many show any atonement for their sins against commerce and trade in Amarrian space. While bureaucrats in the Militia administration (presumably former CONCORD staff) are willing to turn a blind eye to these crimes the CVA will not.
We are not asking the Militia to adopt CVA's KOS list. Its law-abiding members simply have to respect that we cannot turn a blind eye to criminal pilots lurking in their ranks and therefore not interfere when justice is applied.
I would also remind you that the CVA KOS list is public. If members of the Militia (both corps and individuals) are concerned that they have been set red for illegitimate reasons, or they now regret their former criminal actions (or their membership of piratical/terroristic organisations), and wish to clear the record then they can contact CVA diplomats in order to do so.
If the 'reds' in the Militia are truly dedicated to the Amarrian cause then this is something they shouldn't actually have to be prompted to do! The fact that some in the Amarrian Militia actually seem to revel in their criminal acts in Amarrian space indicates that they have no real loyalty to the Empire other than a mercenary one!
----- Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services
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Kazzzi
Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:32:00 -
[26]
Political strife, that's what I like to see. And you Imperialists say the tribes are too disorganized to work together.
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Greme
Amarr Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:54:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Greme on 02/02/2009 11:56:51 Oh this is just classic. CVA working "in the interests of the Amarr empire" again I see.
Nothing changes
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Jon Rocks
Amarr Rothana Heavy Industries The Black Isle
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:03:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Jon Rocks on 02/02/2009 12:05:59 Its easy to see for most why CVA had to make a stand.. But the slave spin machine is in full twirl..
Nothing Changes..
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Greme
Amarr Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:42:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jon Rocks Edited by: Jon Rocks on 02/02/2009 12:05:59 Its easy to see for most why CVA had to make a stand.. But the slave spin machine is in full twirl..
Nothing Changes..
Sir, if you are referring to myself as a slave (as I can only assume from your rather weak attempt at a satirical copy of my post). Perhaps you should bother to do some research into both my ancestral bloodline, and indeed which militia I was aiding in the past (hint: the answer to both is Amarr).
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.02 14:37:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Greme
... Perhaps you should bother to do some research into both my ancestral bloodline, and indeed which militia I was aiding in the past (hint: the answer to both is Amarr).
Ah but you're not CVAmarr thats the difference
________________________
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