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Amoun Ra
Caldari Soulless Armada
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Posted - 2009.02.02 00:12:00 -
[1]
Hello everyone, One of the things I noticed ever since I started playing eve is the wide assumption among a lot of eve players that Caldari as a race fail in pvp, which I find not to be true.
First, I'd like to say that I chose Caldari as race not because I knew Caldari achura had the best starting stats, but because I really liked the Caldari storyline and Caldari ships, and I really liked using missiles as weapons (although I admit I chose achura specifically because they had the best attributes among other Caldari bloodlines. A decision I regret every time I look at my avatar ).
From that time I worked on training all necessary skills to fly Caldari ships, maxed out a lot of them, and then I started learning how to pvp. At first it was very hard and frustrating, especially when reading all the forum posts regarding how Caldari are not good at pvp, and seeing these posts supported by Caldari players, but I still insisted that Caldari are a good race for pvp just like any other race in eve. I realized that to be a successful pvper as Caldari you need much more skills trained than the obvious, and I learned that training missile and shield skills to level 4 or even 5 are not enough to perfect flying Caldari ships: you need lots of other support skills as well. I also learned that flying Caldari requires a little creativity when fitting your ships, unlike other races, especially if you intend on doing solo pvp. This might be hard to learn, but it is definitly not impossible. Flying Caldari ships also meant having certain skills in piloting your ship while pvping, as you are dealing with ships that are less agile and slower than other races.
Now the reason I made this post and wasted your time with all that rambling is that I noticed how lots of Caldari players are complaining in the forums that Caldari got nerfed after the quantum rise patch, which I think is entirely untrue, and in fact CCP did us Caldari a favor by forcing us to start thinking with a more pvp mindset. No longer can cruise missiles insta pop cruisers: now you have to use target painters, which means you have to sacrifice some of your tank, which I believe is good because it encourages the pvp mindset of sacrificing certain attributes of your ship in order to max out certain other attributes. If you want to take down cruisers with battleship sized weapons you need to sacrifice some tank for that. As I previously said, Caldari are not an easy race to master in pvp.
Finally, what I would like to offer is for all those players of eve who chose Caldari not for the min max attributes Caldari achura have, but those who chose Caldari because they liked Caldari ships and using missiles and railguns, to come join me in my corp and I will gladly share with you my experiences in pvp and even in pve. Hopefully I will show you how to get the best out of Caldari ships, and hopefully how to win in pvp using Caldari ships (yes even solo pvp ).
Also, I know there are lots of Caldari pvpers out there who use Caldari ships and can take out any other ship without breaking a sweat. If you guys are reading this I invite you to join my corp and share your experiences and knowledge if you have the time.
The problem of Caldari is not their ships or weapon systems its the difficulty people have in understanding how to use these ships and weapons to their full potential.
Hopefully this post doesn't sound like a recruitment post, because that was not the intent, and just to be clear joining the corp is free and there is absolutely no restriction on leaving the corp once you feel you have gained all you want. The aim is to create a place were veteran Caldari pvpers can share their knowledge and hopefully end the stereotype that Caldari suck in pvp.
Thanks Amoun Ra
We're Caldari. And we're in the right. |
Bohoba
Caldari HolyKnights
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Posted - 2009.02.02 00:18:00 -
[2]
lol good luck m8,
retired cald pvp'er
and its not just 1 patch nerf it's 13 so far
I may contact you in game though mining is boring :)
....................... 10.5 hours a day do you have what it takes ?
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Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2009.02.02 01:00:00 -
[3]
For me it was a coin toss between Caldari and Gallente.
CCP Atlas - The Short Story - "With Quantum Rise, we kind of messed up the performance of the EVE client."
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.02 01:31:00 -
[4]
How to fly Caldari in PvP: forget the Raven exists. Problem solved. Cruise missiles are the only missiles that really have problems, heavies are just fine and the Drake and Cerberus are awesome ships. On the good side, to make up for the fact that the Raven is worthless, Caldari get the best fleet battleship, so I guess it's all fair in the end. -----------
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whosafraid
Caldari Eura MoFo
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Posted - 2009.02.02 01:42:00 -
[5]
Edited by: whosafraid on 02/02/2009 01:44:00 I'm afraid I cant agree with you there.. only good ships that Caldari have is the Drake for solo PVP but with the nerf on speed that time I think the missile DPS has suffered with this ship. I could be wrong thou that is just my feeling with it. Onyx can tank forever but does not have the DPS. Raven was great with Torps before they Nerfed the range. Nighthawk to expensive for solo PVP and DPS once again Sux!. Rook, Falcon, Scorp great support ships but that's about all I can say about them and Primary in fleet fight :) Cerb is fine for ganking small stuff but compared to any other HAC its pants. Ferox Sux! Rotk Sniper, aligns like the titanic Eagle is ok for sniper stuff that's about it.
I'm fly mostly Caldari myself but I have switched to Gallente as I just feel for solo stuff something like a ishtar is 10 times better than a cerb.
Best of luck with the PVP thou. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.02 02:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: whosafraid Onyx can tank forever but does not have the DPS.
The role of a HIC is tackle, not dps, and none of the HICs have good dps. The Onyx is in fact the best HIC.
Quote: Raven was great with Torps before they Nerfed the range.
And massively boosted the dps. God that was a beautiful day, all the carebear tears as their afk mission ship was finally turned into a good PvP battleship. Hint: you have the dps of a Megathron at much higher ranges. See if you can figure out how to use it.
Quote: Cerb is fine for ganking small stuff but compared to any other HAC its pants.
Learn to use your Cerberus properly, flown right, the Cerberus is the second-best HAC (after the Zealot). HAC-level dps with 250km range = win.
Wait, what am I saying? The Cerberus sucks, worst ship ever. Don't ever fly it, I lose a lot fewer Falcons that way.
Quote: Ferox Sux!
All tier-1 BCs suck, except the Brutix (however, the Myrmidon sucks, so Gallente still only get one good BC).
Quote: Rotk Sniper, aligns like the titanic
The Rokh is the best sniper battleship in the game. Agility is irrelevant, and it has the best dps + range.
Quote: Eagle is ok for sniper stuff that's about it.
The Eagle is the perfect anti-support sniper for large fleets. |
whosafraid
Caldari Eura MoFo
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Posted - 2009.02.02 02:43:00 -
[7]
Just to confirm I was talking about the cerb as a solo ship... not for fleet or nano stuff..
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.02 02:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: whosafraid Just to confirm I was talking about the cerb as a solo ship... not for fleet or nano stuff..
Who cares about solo, honestly? Caldari get awesome gang ships for the low, low price of weaker solo ships. And really, they aren't even that weak at all. Consider:
[Cerberus, solo] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile [empty high slot]
Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I
Oh, hey, good dps, excellent tank, MWD/point, decent speed, and the option to hit out to 100km if needed? You know, I think that just might be a good solo ship... -----------
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BuckStrider
Fleem Co SIRRIUS.
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Posted - 2009.02.02 03:47:00 -
[9]
Edited by: BuckStrider on 02/02/2009 03:47:41 -nm... |
Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2009.02.02 03:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin How to fly Caldari in PvP: forget the Raven exists. Problem solved. Cruise missiles are the only missiles that really have problems, heavies are just fine and the Drake and Cerberus are awesome ships. On the good side, to make up for the fact that the Raven is worthless, Caldari get the best fleet battleship, so I guess it's all fair in the end.
Torp Raven?
And besides...whatever happened to your uber stealth bomber raven? QR right? Pfft...
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Radcjk
Caldari Failed Diplomacy
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Posted - 2009.02.02 07:37:00 -
[11]
God dammit, stop telling people Caldari can PvP. I'm in love with getting half my ships cheap as hell and you're gonna ruin it. |
Mitch Taylor
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.02.02 08:49:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Mitch Taylor on 02/02/2009 08:49:48 The greatest thing about eve are the little differences between the races. The constant pursuit of 'balance' has, at times left my caldari character a little hacked off with the world.
After many many years however, I have to say I wouldnt change him for anything.
Mitch
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Amoun Ra
Caldari Soulless Armada
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Posted - 2009.02.02 09:04:00 -
[13]
I have to agree with Merin Ryskin on his analysis of caldari ships although i would add that caldari don't excel only in t2 ships or battleships in fact caldari cruisers are very good too i love the moa its can solo pvp pretty well, and the caracal i'll just say it actually good boosted after QR you just need to figure out its perfect role.
As for the raven, damage of a megathron at 20km range thats all i need to say as long as you remember to bring a target painter or have target painting drones.
The drakes problem is that it has fallen a victim to the cookie cutter setup which emphasizes on fleet combat by sacrificing dps for a super tank that will make you survive or at least be the last one dead while you depend on others to do the dps, which might be ok if you are in a big fleet however if you are in a small gang or solo and you run into a another gang with dps oriented ships you will just be a brick in space watching as your gang falls down one member at a time then watching as you die slowely while other ships take their time to work on your tank. Changing some of the modules used for the passive shield tank for other modules such as an afterburner and having some ecm drones will lower your tank but give you a better chance of survival and makes the drake more lethal.
Thanks for all your contributions to this post i am sure a lot of people will find it useful and i hope caldari veteran pvpers and noob caldari pvpers will consider joining my corp and create a live forum for the exchange of info regarding caldari pvp and experiences, as any attempt to do that on here will end with lots of dispute and trolling that will drown the good ideas and eventually this thread will die like all other threads and will be forgotten. Also by joining the corp not only do you get to hear good ideas but you will also have a chance to apply them right away and test them yourselve in pvp. |
Diehard Si
UK1 Zero
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:00:00 -
[14]
In roaming gangs the Cerb ( yes it is better than a zealot ) is the best hac by a mile and the nighthawk is the best command ship.
The drake is good as long as you think away from the passive tank setup.
The falcon is great in any gangs.
I'm not going to give you the setups, you can work on them yourself.
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Lost Exile
Amarr Eve's Brothers of Destiny FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2009.02.02 16:15:00 -
[15]
what the point to argue? on any action , there, allways is reaction.
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Circle
Caldari Eat Ship and Die
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Posted - 2009.02.02 16:23:00 -
[16]
I'm only about 4 months into the game with a hair over 6million sp. I have just gotten into FW PvP which I have enjoyed tons. I have had no problems being caldari. I have not seen tons of nerfs since I have started playing which may be why i have such a pos. view point. However, for anyone crying about nerfs (changes) its going to happen again, and again, and again... I have played 12+ mmos and it happens in every game. My advice, ADAPT and move on. Learn!! how to use a new system that gets implemented.
For those that chose to solo PvP you deserve to lose I have played solo pvp MMOÆs and this is not one of them
Testing |
Vampasha
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Posted - 2009.02.02 16:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Amoun Ra Hello everyone, One of the things I noticed ever since I started playing eve is the wide assumption among a lot of eve players that Caldari as a race fail in pvp, which I find not to be true.
First, I'd like to say that I chose Caldari as race not because I knew Caldari achura had the best starting stats, but because I really liked the Caldari storyline and Caldari ships, and I really liked using missiles as weapons (although I admit I chose achura specifically because they had the best attributes among other Caldari bloodlines. A decision I regret every time I look at my avatar ).
From that time I worked on training all necessary skills to fly Caldari ships, maxed out a lot of them, and then I started learning how to pvp. At first it was very hard and frustrating, especially when reading all the forum posts regarding how Caldari are not good at pvp, and seeing these posts supported by Caldari players, but I still insisted that Caldari are a good race for pvp just like any other race in eve. I realized that to be a successful pvper as Caldari you need much more skills trained than the obvious, and I learned that training missile and shield skills to level 4 or even 5 are not enough to perfect flying Caldari ships: you need lots of other support skills as well. I also learned that flying Caldari requires a little creativity when fitting your ships, unlike other races, especially if you intend on doing solo pvp. This might be hard to learn, but it is definitly not impossible. Flying Caldari ships also meant having certain skills in piloting your ship while pvping, as you are dealing with ships that are less agile and slower than other races.
Now the reason I made this post and wasted your time with all that rambling is that I noticed how lots of Caldari players are complaining in the forums that Caldari got nerfed after the quantum rise patch, which I think is entirely untrue, and in fact CCP did us Caldari a favor by forcing us to start thinking with a more pvp mindset. No longer can cruise missiles insta pop cruisers: now you have to use target painters, which means you have to sacrifice some of your tank, which I believe is good because it encourages the pvp mindset of sacrificing certain attributes of your ship in order to max out certain other attributes. If you want to take down cruisers with battleship sized weapons you need to sacrifice some tank for that. As I previously said, Caldari are not an easy race to master in pvp.
Finally, what I would like to offer is for all those players of eve who chose Caldari not for the min max attributes Caldari achura have, but those who chose Caldari because they liked Caldari ships and using missiles and railguns, to come join me in my corp and I will gladly share with you my experiences in pvp and even in pve. Hopefully I will show you how to get the best out of Caldari ships, and hopefully how to win in pvp using Caldari ships (yes even solo pvp ).
Also, I know there are lots of Caldari pvpers out there who use Caldari ships and can take out any other ship without breaking a sweat. If you guys are reading this I invite you to join my corp and share your experiences and knowledge if you have the time.
The problem of Caldari is not their ships or weapon systems its the difficulty people have in understanding how to use these ships and weapons to their full potential.
Hopefully this post doesn't sound like a recruitment post, because that was not the intent, and just to be clear joining the corp is free and there is absolutely no restriction on leaving the corp once you feel you have gained all you want. The aim is to create a place were veteran Caldari pvpers can share their knowledge and hopefully end the stereotype that Caldari suck in pvp.
Thanks Amoun Ra
Not being able to 1 shot cruisers is a nerf. Needing target painters is a nerf. It is not a boost , believe me.
Calderi can pvp with more skills than opponent? Ha Ha |
Soporo
Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.02 18:51:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Diehard Si In roaming gangs the Cerb ( yes it is better than a zealot ) is the best hac by a mile and the nighthawk is the best command ship.
The drake is good as long as you think away from the passive tank setup.
The falcon is great in any gangs.
I'm not going to give you the setups, you can work on them yourself.
Lol, the NH is FAR from being the best Command ship for pvp, it's probably the worst. Assuming you actually want to, you know, fit a Command module and act in it's supposed role. Go ahead, prove me wrong. Try to fit a command module, mwd and even moderate tank, you'll quickly find yourself downgrading to light launchers or something else assinine. |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.02.02 18:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Diehard Si In roaming gangs the Cerb ( yes it is better than a zealot ) is the best hac by a mile
Depends whether you want super-long-range anti-ewar fire or moderately-long-range anti-frigate/ewar/cruiser fire, really. __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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cpt Mark
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Posted - 2009.02.03 00:17:00 -
[20]
Doesn't my character look like the most badass soldier you ever saw.
He was born for one purpose - Inflicting great pain and suffering.
......
I only fly BlackBird or Drakes in PvP.
Currently training up all missile skills, - so option to change to another race ships is impossible.
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Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.02.03 13:12:00 -
[21]
Originally by: cpt Mark
Currently training up all missile skills, - so option to change to another race ships is impossible.
Check out Khanid ships. |
Sillas Cov
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.02.03 16:07:00 -
[22]
I fly Caldari ships for PvP exclusively. While I do see that my ships work best within a gang of complimentary ships, I don't dock thinking my efforts are wasted or substandard due to my ship stats!
Solo pvp in Eve is very rare as everyone is looking to outclass you. All your gank is gone as local fills.
Fly the ship you want to have fun with, and for some that may maxi gank T2 hacs ect, or if you are like Val and other PvP masters, you fly several ships to great effect.
The situations are so varied in Eve, that pvp in any ship is a constant source of challenge and entertainment.
Im having a lot of fun flying T1 stuff as I skill up all my support skills fully and take on T2 ships here next....
Its all good with the Caldari when you fly with skilled and dedicated mates...
Onward
Sillas |
Faife
Federation of Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2009.02.03 17:29:00 -
[23]
bahoba, please biomass yourself.
caldari are totally fine: ravens are good anti-support, drakes are good, cerbs are good, falcons are god tier, blackbirds are good, vultures are good, rokhs are good, scorpions are good, kitsunes are good, eagles are good, chimeras are good, and phoenixes are good and great against POSes.
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Aethyran Daestrum
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Posted - 2009.02.03 23:17:00 -
[24]
Im not too sure, true that after experience and mastering of a certain race and their ships can bring you on par or better than others but on the whole I dont think Caldari are built for PvP. Lest not in FW from what I seen and and well KMed. Majority of the time we're (Gallente Federation) are up against Ravens, BBs, Caras and Drakes -are meanies with smartbombs....luckily these Ishkurs are tough buggers - which are great but not exactly winning combinations in a Fleet battle. Of the fleet battles I been in, we have rarely lost a fight unless due to sheer numerical superiority.... although 3 to 1 odds Luiminaries still win.
Though this could possibly be on bad FCing and maybe lack of discipline.... I dunno. Really want a proper fight! |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.04 00:13:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Aethyran Daestrum Im not too sure, true that after experience and mastering of a certain race and their ships can bring you on par or better than others but on the whole I dont think Caldari are built for PvP. Lest not in FW from what I seen and and well KMed. Majority of the time we're (Gallente Federation) are up against Ravens, BBs, Caras and Drakes -are meanies with smartbombs....luckily these Ishkurs are tough buggers - which are great but not exactly winning combinations in a Fleet battle. Of the fleet battles I been in, we have rarely lost a fight unless due to sheer numerical superiority.... although 3 to 1 odds Luiminaries still win.
Though this could possibly be on bad FCing and maybe lack of discipline.... I dunno. Really want a proper fight!
It has very little to do with the ships, and a lot to do with the fact that it's FW. Lots of carebears getting into PvP for the first time = mission setups in PvP = dead carebears. With good PvP pilots and an experienced FC, a Caldari fleet will absolutely trash the Gallente side. Sniper Rokhs will rip you apart from outside your own range (or do more dps with more tank from sniper Megathron range), Cerberuses/Drakes/Eagles will massacre your support, Falcons/Blackbirds/Scorpions will lock down your critical ships, while all the newbies in throwaway Kestrels keep you tackled. Once you kill all the newbies (after losing a lot more expensive ships) while failing to score any kills against the veterans, they warp out and come back with a new supply of newbies in Kestrels. |
MirrorGod
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.02.04 06:48:00 -
[26]
Caldari | PVP | Solo
You may choose any two |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.02.04 09:10:00 -
[27]
Originally by: MirrorGod Caldari | PVP | Solo
You may choose any two
Only if you're incompetent.
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StainLessStealRat
Legio V Fidelus Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2009.02.04 11:32:00 -
[28]
Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 04/02/2009 11:33:05
Originally by: MirrorGod Caldari | PVP | Solo
You may choose any two
yet your fleet die's too solo drakes ?!? im confused
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Toff Lemire
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Posted - 2009.02.04 16:10:00 -
[29]
There seems to be a lot of solo haters here. I enjoy solo pvp mainly due to the unpredicatable play schedule that I have. There is more than enough solo pvp out there for me. I do enjoy a good fleet once in awhile and will jump all over that opportunity.
Caldari has fine ships. I've switched to Minmatar but Caldari have some scary ships in fleet warfare. Fly what you enjoy and keep the rest in dock or on the market :)
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sukmanobov
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.02.04 16:50:00 -
[30]
Iv'e not read the rest of the replys yet but just to get my tupence worth in to main topic first.
Fly minmatar because i like the story line and found that i had made a great choice against the pvp issue. but i would still think twice when taking on a caracal in my rifter (solo) fully loaded out with light missiles (distance) or rocket/neuts (close).
Though i took on a moa with turrets and after taking down his drones, all he could do was hope and pray that he got a shot off with thoes slow tracking medium guns (check battleclinic for pvp info there). |
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