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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.02 23:08:00 -
[181]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Venkul Mul Scanning range: directional scan 14 AU, probes 40+ Warping cloaked ship first for the attacker. Where is the difference from gatecamping?
1.) Needs Astro V for Ferrets, how many people will have that is debatable. The Ferret is also not the most reliable scanning probe. So while it may give them the advantage, it is not even very reliable for finding anything subcapital. So, while this, and the Observator are distinct possibilities, they are very likely to miss numerous times, or give you a hit that requires a snoop to be placed.
There is also no guarantee that you will actually be more than 14au away from where they are when you drop the probe.
Granted there is no guarantee the belts will be more than 14 AU from the wormhole entrance. We don't know where it will spawn in relation to the system, but it is fairly probable if the system is even middle sized.
About the ferret: the new probes will be warp capable and repositionable. We will see how it work and if the Astro skill will modify the range (could be an use for the Asto skill) but ther eis a good probability it will be possible to move them and reposition them from beyond the range of the on board scanner.
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
2.) Gate camping is sitting at known choke points under the pretense that people actually go through them. Sitting cloaked in a random belt is a guess that someone might wander into that system and happen to go to that belt.
Read what I wrote. You don't want in the belt. You either leave the access wormhole you have used open with a relatively low mass left (less than your fleet) or close it and find the new wormhole and wait in ambush there. It is exactly like gatecamping. The target will enter from a know point, you will be there waiting, no sentry guns. And you can have bubbles up.
People using scout will lose little but the WH get locked up, those that don't use scout will suffer.
Note that all the above is for high sec WH entry points.
They will be the mirror image of the 0.0-hi sec gates.
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Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.02.02 23:19:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Cassius Longinus But of course people like it because they are risk averse- it's not that I blame them, but I suspect the game is much less fun for me because of the current local mechanics (It's hard to know for sure since we can't really test "no local" systems on SISI or anything).
About a year or so ago, after a patch, local was not functioning. It was...weird. The Devs sorted it out within a few hours but for those few hours no one was quite sure what to do (not having had time to really come to grips with it).
Was interesting anyway.
I agree that experience was weird. In some respects it was very cool, the unnerving sense that 'someone' could be lurking out there in space with the intention of blasting your ship to atoms / being that someone lurking out in space with the intention of blasting somebody else into atoms.
That was cool. But - there was also a sense that EVE was in some fashion devoid of life, of interaction. Which ever way you want to spin it, its that degree of 'multiplayer' interaction that Local provides.
WiS might resolve some of this quandry - i.e how to provide communal game play whilst conveying the enormity and solitude of deep space. I could imagine a EVE'verse where WiS contrasted with an empty 'wilderness' of an unlocalised star system.
The only other solution, as I outlined earlier, is just to place blind spots within the systems themselves. As you warp from one gate to the next you pass a multitude of distant asteroid belts, perhaps harbouring a mining gang, pirates or unclaimed riches; but until you travel there you simply wont know.
Its that partial knowledge that inspires trepidation and fear and I think that translates much better to the EVE universe than a complete removal of local and all knowledge of your surroundings.
C.
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Jack Light
legion syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.02 23:27:00 -
[183]
Quite a lot of posts here in a rather short amount of time eh |
Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.02 23:39:00 -
[184]
First, I found it amusing that CCP Prism X hinted at how to exploit EVE to nuke Nodes during fleet ops.
Second, I'm all for nerfing local. But I don't believe CCP has the balls. In a twisted sort of way they enjoy making their game less fun, not more. Like the QR patch.
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.02 23:43:00 -
[185]
Not until they come up with a way for the hunted to be alerted to the presence of danger as simply and quickly as for the hunter to be alerted to the presence of targets (as previous posters have said). Yes, I understand that the target could simply spam the directional scan all day long, but this is not an acceptable solution. The hunter needs to press the button once, why should the target have to press it 720 times per hour?
I would support, for example: * Local has a number but no names. Neither party knows the indentity or alignment of each other until a visual is acquired or the other party broadcasts. * No information in local (unless someone broadcasts), but any time a directional scan or probe is used, anyone in the radius covered by that scan/probe gets a warning message (energy emissions from the scan/probe were detected). No identity of the other party, just a "Warning! Scanner emissions detected!" sort of message.
Personally, I like the latter. It makes sense, both in terms of utility and in terms of flavor text. Someone ratting at a warp-in point will be SOL, as the hunter can simply check each belt while 'running silent'. Someone who is a bit more careful (ratting away from a warpin point) is safer from ships other than recons. And someone in deadspace is guaranteed at least a 30 second heads up, so long as they are paying attention.
-- Becq Starforged
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Geezelbub
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Posted - 2009.02.03 00:05:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Geezelbub on 03/02/2009 00:09:44
Originally by: Becq Starforged
Not until they come up with a way for the hunted to be alerted to the presence of danger as simply and quickly as for the hunter to be alerted to the presence of targets (as previous posters have said). Yes, I understand that the target could simply spam the directional scan all day long, but this is not an acceptable solution. The hunter needs to press the button once, why should the target have to press it 720 times per hour?
I would support, for example: {snip} * No information in local (unless someone broadcasts), but any time a directional scan or probe is used, anyone in the radius covered by that scan/probe gets a warning message (energy emissions from the scan/probe were detected). No identity of the other party, just a "Warning! Scanner emissions detected!" sort of message.
This I like. I mean cmon, were flying spaceships without fuzzbusters?
Heck make it a module if ya have to, in fact maybe it should be. It's a countermeasure that existed in WWII aircraft!
Could be a whole new field of EECM; spoofing scanners. Let's put some more value in the specialized Electronics ships. Test it in Wspace, then implement it in Empire and 0,0.
Now that would be an example of T3 technology. Say the scannee's chance of a result get's reduced x by the strength of the anti-scan module AND the skill of the operator of the EECM. All those specialized scanning skills put to another good use. In fact the right module could pinpoint where the scan originated, making wholesale active scanning a whole lot less attractive.
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Rondo Gunn
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.03 00:09:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Becq Starforged * No information in local (unless someone broadcasts), but any time a directional scan or probe is used, anyone in the radius covered by that scan/probe gets a warning message (energy emissions from the scan/probe were detected). No identity of the other party, just a "Warning! Scanner emissions detected!" sort of message.
I was going to suggest something like this That way the hunted have an easy passive system to detect the hunter without breaking their fingers by constantly scanning. Having local just display the number of ships and nothing else would at the very least give players a heads up if suddenly their pocket of supposedly empty w-space was invaded. They could see it spike and then if curious they could then scan and get more info.
----------------------------------------------- shin ku myo u
Please note: Everything I say is flavored with irony, cynicism and, of course, minty freshness. |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.02.03 00:10:00 -
[188]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 03/02/2009 00:12:11 I want to find someone to shoot. No local means I do not spend time hunting down targets in empty systems. Even the carebear in a system with no local would simply keep hitting a scan button or use a marco to do that for him.
Currently, the entire flaw of local is that the way EVE is designed. This means that somebody looking at local can logoff/warp out by the time a target finds them. Thats the main problem with local. The other problem with local is that people use it to gather info on numbers/pilots etc.
Scenario 1: I want to hunt a ratter. I will jump in system and it will take a minimum of 30 seconds to a minute for me to find the target and land on top of them. In this time, a bot or a player with local open or even a sourceforge screen reader that plays a sound when it see's a red cross or white cross on the screen (i.e someone in local). Thus, my chances of getting targets is harder.
Scenario 2: A Fleet is looking to attack the mark's fleet that is camping a gate or whatever. Rather than plan any clever scouting, a mark's fleet waits it out. Local explodes next door, and the mark's NPC alt sees local and has plenty time to pass a warning. The mark's fleet makes a run for it due to higher numbers they found out in local.
Basically, there are plenty of scenario's. The problem is not local, but the problem is people who get Real Time, 100% accurate information from local, which devalues the players who use scouts etc. What is the solution?
Just do not show up in local until you are in system for at least 2 minutes
A fast small roaming gang will give their targets incorrect information about numbers. A ratter who is using a bot or opensource program will be dead by the time a target shows up. You know that badly run gatecamp that relys on a NPC alt seeing local numbers explode a jump away as a warning? Well, its going to actually make more fights happen. A titan pilot who jumps in will have a bit of time to setup rather than witness a mass logoff/warpout just becauses he is seen in local etc.
No point removing local, just evolve it. A 2 min delay is pretty reasonable, and easy to RP in for those that way inclined. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.03 00:18:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Becq Starforged
* No information in local (unless someone broadcasts), but any time a directional scan or probe is used, anyone in the radius covered by that scan/probe gets a warning message (energy emissions from the scan/probe were detected). No identity of the other party, just a "Warning! Scanner emissions detected!" sort of message.
More or less acceptable. It will make Force recons very powerful in a way, but they have some serious limitation so it seem balanced.
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Geezelbub
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Posted - 2009.02.03 00:18:00 -
[190]
Edited by: Geezelbub on 03/02/2009 00:19:22
Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 03/02/2009 00:12:11 I want to find someone to shoot. No local means I do not spend time hunting down targets in empty systems. Even the carebear in a system with no local would simply keep hitting a scan button or use a marco to do that for him.
Currently, the entire flaw of local is that the way EVE is designed. This means that somebody looking at local can logoff/warp out by the time a target finds them. Thats the main problem with local. The other problem with local is that people use it to gather info on numbers/pilots etc.
I think you mean you don't wanna have to waste time hunting targets in empty systems. Please, we wouldn't want to waste your precious 30 sec to a minute on an empty system would we.
Lot's of folks here seem to think Wspace is gonna be..Hop in the system..nah empty, hop to next. I am HOPING that's NOT how it's gonna work out.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.03 00:22:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Geezelbub I think you mean you don't wanna have to waste time hunting targets in empty systems. Please, we wouldn't want to waste your precious 30 sec to a minute on an empty system would we.
What it means is that having to do the same thing a whole bunch of times in every single system is not fun, nor is it necessary.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.03 00:25:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
No point removing local, just evolve it. A 2 min delay is pretty reasonable, and easy to RP in for those that way inclined.
It all depend if you (the hunter) are getting 2 minutes out of date informations or if you must wait 2 minutes to get any information.
In the first hypothesis you jump in system and get the info that at least 2 minutes ago there were players X and Y in system. Chances are that if they are miners, ratters or mission runners they are still here. Big advantage for the hunter.
If you jump in, get nothing for two minutes and have to warp from belt to belt to detect if people are there it is a bit more balanced, but still strongly favorable to the hunter side.
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Geezelbub
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Posted - 2009.02.03 00:36:00 -
[193]
Why is it not needed? (it being effort)
Oh yeah...there a big sign when you enter "unexplored" systems..
'They are here!" "and you can right click their names and get all kinds of good info".
Now that's challenging.
I am not a miner. Heck I am just a trader, by accident. But I have mission runner alt's and soon a miner alt. All of these involve quite a bit of effort, and expenditure of time, and of course isk in alot of cases.
What just cracks me up about some of you mighty "PvP'ers", expecially the out and out ganker/pirates, is you scream bloody murder about anything that may make spend more time, expend a little more effort to gank some targets. Amazing.................
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.03 00:56:00 -
[194]
This thread is agood example of why some times devs don't post :P
They get eaten alive.
I love how you put "which is my own opnio and not anyone else or the company* :P
haha
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sakana
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.03 01:15:00 -
[195]
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
OffBeaT
Caldari KaMiKaZes
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Posted - 2009.02.03 01:43:00 -
[196]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 03/02/2009 01:45:01 oh man! drop local its real stupid to have it when we use probes/scanners these days.. we only need station chat when docked!
what do we have all these skills for again to aid probes/scanners for anyway.
we all get lazy with local with not looking for warp bubbles or intruders at times but with local gone you bet i will wont to scan like clock work.
saying that i don't wont local gone until we have effective ecm or counter measures to prob hunters.
i wont eccm mods/probes of my own that will aid me in keeping me cloaked from probes while i move around avoiding these blob hunters.
don't say cloaking is enough because that is bull**** you still need to move around, playing eve parked sucks..
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.02.03 02:13:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Cailais ...But - there was also a sense that EVE was in some fashion devoid of life, of interaction. Which ever way you want to spin it, its that degree of 'multiplayer' interaction that Local provides. ...
You keep saying this. Could you supply some examples of this interaction in 0.0 Local that you would miss if 0.0 Local was put into 'delayed' mode? ...
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.03 02:40:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Geezelbub 'They are here!" "and you can right click their names and get all kinds of good info".
Oh god I could figure out their names and some corp they're in who I don't know or care about!!!!!!!
What ever will we do??!?!???
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente aurorae pacificas
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Posted - 2009.02.03 02:48:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Cailais ...But - there was also a sense that EVE was in some fashion devoid of life, of interaction. Which ever way you want to spin it, its that degree of 'multiplayer' interaction that Local provides. ...
You keep saying this. Could you supply some examples of this interaction in 0.0 Local that you would miss if 0.0 Local was put into 'delayed' mode?
Personally I couldnt think of a single occurrence in either low/0.0 or hi-sec where non accurate delayed (as opposed to real time 100% accurate) intel would diminish multiplayer interaction.
All I can see is it increasing 'interaction' in the way of alot more non-consentual pvp would occur. Personally I think attentive carebears would not be as effected as they fear. The real 'losers' (actually winners) in a non-local environment would be pvpers. Gangs would be forced to engage on inaccurate intel (therefore increasing suspense/pleasure). Alot of gangs who would have otherwise disengaged due to the intel garnered from local and live to fight another day will fight loosing battles.
This is as it should be. More fights for pvpers. More suprises for pvpers. More ship losses for industry to replace. More isk to be made/lost.
More fun to be had.
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Geezelbub
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Posted - 2009.02.03 04:44:00 -
[200]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Oh god I could figure out their names and some corp they're in who I don't know or care about!!!!!!!
What ever will we do??!?!???
Well, if that's all you can get out of it, hopefully you have other folks making intel decisions.
I am not looking for an argument here, I just see a lot of potential for lots more excitement for all sides here. My main interest is in expanding the EWAR potential here. It would add another dimension following the removal/limiting of local, and if done right, could balance the hunter v prey situation. The quick insta probe and warp is not balanced.
As for people who wanna chat and be social...go walk in stations.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.03 04:48:00 -
[201]
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik The real 'losers' (actually winners) in a non-local environment would be pvpers. Gangs would be forced to engage on inaccurate intel (therefore increasing suspense/pleasure). Alot of gangs who would have otherwise disengaged due to the intel garnered from local and live to fight another day will fight loosing battles.
I am sorry, the human decision making process does not work like that.
Anyway, ask yourself two things
A: Do you like blobs? B: Do you like PvP?
If you like blobs and dislike pvp, then support removing local. If you don't like blobs and like pvp, then don't support removing local. Because removing local will increase risk in the system, which pushes players towards less risky activities. Less risky activities like "not engaging as often" and "bringing more people" and "having everyone be cloaked all the time" |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.03 05:14:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Geezelbub
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Oh god I could figure out their names and some corp they're in who I don't know or care about!!!!!!!
What ever will we do??!?!???
Well, if that's all you can get out of it, hopefully you have other folks making intel decisions.
I am not looking for an argument here, I just see a lot of potential for lots more excitement for all sides here. My main interest is in expanding the EWAR potential here. It would add another dimension following the removal/limiting of local, and if done right, could balance the hunter v prey situation. The quick insta probe and warp is not balanced.
As for people who wanna chat and be social...go walk in stations.
Unfortunately, Local does not give any relevant information beyond how many people there are, and their standings to you.
Real intel comes from eyes on hostiles. Knowing 80 hostiles are in local is just a number. But knowing that 40 hostiles are docked and probably AFK while the other 40 are mostly in BS at a staging pos huddled near a titan about to bridge is what real intel looks like.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.02.03 05:18:00 -
[203]
log in traps, hotdrops and blob on other side of gate ( and now maybe wormhole dropins) where a gang sits in wsapce scout goes thro link ( if the mass allows entire gang thro) they simply wait for kspace to enter local engage and drop out of a wormhole |
OffBeaT
Caldari KaMiKaZes
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Posted - 2009.02.03 05:36:00 -
[204]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 03/02/2009 05:44:57
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik The real 'losers' (actually winners) in a non-local environment would be pvpers. Gangs would be forced to engage on inaccurate intel (therefore increasing suspense/pleasure). Alot of gangs who would have otherwise disengaged due to the intel garnered from local and live to fight another day will fight loosing battles.
I am sorry, the human decision making process does not work like that.
Anyway, ask yourself two things
A: Do you like blobs? B: Do you like PvP?
If you like blobs and dislike pvp, then support removing local. If you don't like blobs and like pvp, then don't support removing local. Because removing local will increase risk in the system, which pushes players towards less risky activities. Less risky activities like "not engaging as often" and "bringing more people" and "having everyone be cloaked all the time"
i am shocked that a goon would even say this..
i feel with the right counter mods & some kind of new eccm class of probes, blob warfare might finally start coming to a end. they would have to use there fleets like they should and hunt for what they might not know is out there & as for the hunted i know you got to look for me but i might not be the only one there on my side.. we don't need to always cloak to hide or confuse our hunters/pray. we need new kinds of tools to make this new way of combat work.. we got the ship classes now we need the gear to use in them.
you would have to rework the map as well like pods/ship kills/ships in systems as well.. this is not empire systems we need this done its in 00 systems.. if you don't wont risk or pvp stay out of 00 space right? we let ccp give empire to the car bears didn't we already.. so stay there if you dont wont risk. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.02.03 06:20:00 -
[205]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 03/02/2009 06:19:44
Quote:
Anyway, ask yourself two things
A: Do you like blobs? B: Do you like PvP?
If you like blobs and dislike pvp, then support removing local. If you don't like blobs and like pvp, then don't support removing local. Because removing local will increase risk in the system, which pushes players towards less risky activities. Less risky activities like "not engaging as often" and "bringing more people" and "having everyone be cloaked all the time"
Risk is what makes EVE PVP. Removing local would not increase blobbing; you could still get intel ,you just need a scout.
As far as blobbing...Removal/nerf of local would mean that a smaller force would be able to slip by to some extent. A smart, smaller gang would use the lack of perfect intel to their advantage to pick apart the larger gang in something other than a direct headbash. Local actually supports blobbing because it removes the disadvantages to a very large, unwieldy fleet. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.03 07:06:00 -
[206]
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
EDIT: although the emphasis of this thread is on the effects of a non/delayed local environment on 0.0 and w-space, ironically its really, really needed MOST in Hi-sec. A delayed system of intel could really increase the viability of hi-sec wars, as opposed to the dock up/ undocking games that it currently entails.
You mean "I will be so happy to camp high sec stations as people without a NPC corp alt will be easy targets as they don't even have a window to see if there is a enemy outside the station"?
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.02.03 07:12:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Lord WarATron
No point removing local, just evolve it. A 2 min delay is pretty reasonable, and easy to RP in for those that way inclined.
It all depend if you (the hunter) are getting 2 minutes out of date informations or if you must wait 2 minutes to get any information.
In the first hypothesis you jump in system and get the info that at least 2 minutes ago there were players X and Y in system. Chances are that if they are miners, ratters or mission runners they are still here. Big advantage for the hunter.
If you jump in, get nothing for two minutes and have to warp from belt to belt to detect if people are there it is a bit more balanced, but still strongly favorable to the hunter side.
It can work either way. Either everybody get a 2 min delay to local. But what a lot of pvpers think would be better for the game is having people who enter the system to be delayed by 2 mins before showing up on local.
A hunter is supposed to have the advantage in terms of hunting. A miner/ratter/missioner is not supposed to have low risk access to contestable resources. Its risk vs reward. It will force people to mine/rat/mission in small groups rather than solo rambo style of play that we have today.
Just now, it is almost impossible to catch people who use screen readers from sourceforge, you know, the ones that make a sound whenever it sees a red cross or while neutral while mark displayed on screen. Its almost impossible to catch macroers or even people who look at local, since they can warp out quicker than you can land on them.
Most people that are caught today are people who are semiafk or those who do no rely on local. Gatecamps can rely on using a NPC corp alt next door to give ample warning when a gatecamp crushing squad arrives. I can go on and on, but local is not bad, its the Real time 100% accurate information that needs to be reviewed. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.03 07:19:00 -
[208]
Originally by: OffBeaT blob warfare might finally start coming to a end
No, it won't.
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Risk is what makes EVE PVP. Removing local would not increase blobbing; you could still get intel ,you just need a scout.
As far as blobbing...Removal/nerf of local would mean that a smaller force would be able to slip by to some extent. A smart, smaller gang would use the lack of perfect intel to their advantage to pick apart the larger gang in something other than a direct headbash. Local actually supports blobbing because it removes the disadvantages to a very large, unwieldy fleet.
Ah ha ha ha ha ha.
1. Less information is more risk.
More risk promotes less risky activities. Guess what a less risky activity is? Its blobbing.
2. Smaller forces need scouts just as much as larger ones, but scouts for smaller ones comprise a larger percentage of the gang and a larger "cost" to the effectiveness of the gang as a whole. The more scouts you need the larger your gang will have to become to compensate. And that is even if you can get back up to the information level you were at previously.
Now, i don't know about you, but if you make a change and it promotes people bringing more people into their gang, i call that "increasing blobbing".
3. Larger gangs, by virtue of their ability to give up less combat power with the inclusion of more scouts are typically BETTER informed than smaller gangs. This increases as the size of the organization as a whole increases. So an entity such as Goonswarm for instance, which can have region wide intelligence reporting with hundreds or thousands of pilots flying around gathering intel will know more about where enemies are what kinds of ships they're flying and how likely they are to win a fight. The lack of local will hurt us much less than it will hurt you, who has comparatively less intelligence, less ability to find targets, less ability to identify large forces on the move and less ability to avoid a large force that is setting a trap.
I don't argue against local because it would be bad for Goonswarm, i argue against it because it would be bad for the game. Sure, you might be able to gank a few more ratters in low-sec domain for a week or so. Until they stopped ratting and went to empire and the only folks left were massive CVA defensive gangs flanked by everyone and their mother reporting in and watching the Citadel religiously.(and regions without these types of collective defensive mechanisms would likely generate them right fast)
Well, that or you would just get into a recon and go enjoy (more or less) riskless pvp while fapping over how uber your k:d ratio was. |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.03 07:23:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
It can work either way. Either everybody get a 2 min delay to local. But what a lot of pvpers think would be better for the game is having people who enter the system to be delayed by 2 mins before showing up on local.
A 2 minute delay is as good as no local. 2 minutes is for bleeding ever.
The answer is very very simple
1. Rat aggression timer, 5 minutes logout. 2. Normal Probes scan down cloaking ships just like normal. 3. You don't show up in local until you decloak from gate jump in.
There, its fixed. You can kill ratters since they can't log out they can only go to a POS(which you can kill and is expensive and a pain to keep running). You can kill ratters if they cloak since they won't be in recons or stealth bombers and will be easy prey for a scanner. Your recons will suffer no ill effects unless you're afk, since it takes time to warp to a result, and since all ships with cloaking bonuses can warp instantly after they uncloak or warp cloaked, there is no reason anyone should catch a cloaked ship with a bonus that is at their keyboard(if you don't want to be at your keyboard, log-off, you still have a 2 minute log off timer). And if you jump into a system you have time to scan around to see what is there before the other side knows you're there and you can slightly hide your numbers when jumping into an enemy force. |
187 PROOF
VICE-LORDS
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Posted - 2009.02.03 07:40:00 -
[210]
CCP has been trying to get more industry into 0.0 for quite some time.
If they take away the one defense miners have against roaming kb *****s they will achieve the exact opposite result. PvPrs already have the advantage against miners, why tilt the scale even more?
Without realtime local, 0.0 miners are dead, period.
The economic ramifications of reducing the high end ore miners are huge.
Sooo.....why not leave local as it is for barges/exhumers? Let the mining ships keep realtime local and nerf the rest. Perhaps ORE can be the only corp with this technology.
I dont mine, but I dont want to see the carebears get completely screwed. |
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