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Khorkrak
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Posted - 2009.02.02 17:51:00 -
[1]
Why isn't there a premium graphics version of the linux client? Instead we're stuck having to run the windoze one in windowed mode via wine in order to be able to consistently switch to other processes due to a weird focus related bug. Running the linux client itself is so-so as it's only full screen mode & classic graphics + you end up with this strange situation if the in-game browser launches your default browser with more than 2 tabs typically where you end up not being able to clear anywhere on the browser yet it's the topmost window - grrrrr.
The code is written in python with c++ extensions. Being cross-platform shouldn't be such a challenging issue as python is built with that in mind. Naturally using libraries that are os specific makes things hard such as directx. Why go with that over OpenGL? Is there really something that good about it?
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Lothros Andastar
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.02 17:59:00 -
[2]
Well if you're so ****ing awesome you code it yourself. Until then, suck it up that CCP cannot give as much resources to a client that is used by 2% of their playerbase
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.02 18:00:00 -
[3]
I like how games always release a Linux client.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.02 18:05:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Khorkrak Naturally using libraries that are os specific makes things hard such as directx. Why go with that over OpenGL? Is there really something that good about it?
Yes -----------------------------------------
Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
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Dragonwell
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.02.02 18:09:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lothros Andastar [...]CCP cannot give as much resources to a client that is used by 2% of their playerbase
I sympathize, but, this.
At the moment M10 is being hammered out, so you're likely going to waiting until at least post-M10 for any developments here. |
Khorkrak
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Posted - 2009.02.02 18:10:00 -
[6]
The point is that they don't have to give any resources to a linux specific client. Make the app be cross platform to begin with. It's written mostly in python - and making things cross platform there is not as insanely difficult as it is with lesser languages. |
Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.02.02 18:11:00 -
[7]
The Linux client is disappointing?
Proprietary API support on open source platforms is disappointing.
Welcome to Microsoft Hell. |
Corwain
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Posted - 2009.02.02 18:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Concorduck
Originally by: Khorkrak Naturally using libraries that are os specific makes things hard such as directx. Why go with that over OpenGL? Is there really something that good about it?
Yes
DirectX is easier to code for as Microsoft has done half the work for you, but it takes more resources to render.
Story short, CCP is lazy. |
Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.02.02 18:34:00 -
[9]
There's that, there's also the part where even OpenGL 3.0 doesn't bring parity between the two APIs.
So it's not just a matter of laziness, CCP are on record that their coders would much rather be working with OpenGL anyway. Trinity 2 being DX9.0c is probably just a stopgap measure. What interests me is what they're going to do next. DX11 will probably have the adoption rate Vista never did, and it leaves OpenGL in the dust (even with OpenCL 1.0). Even if Larrabee takes off, writing a software engine in C/C++ makes you hardware dependent.
So right now their choices are:
- crappy graphics and great cross platform support (OpenGL) - better graphics with crappy cross platform support (DX9.0c)
And in the future it might be:
- much better graphics and even worse cross platform support (DX11) - archaic graphics and great cross platform support (OpenGL) - ridiculously amazing effects that only run on one hardware part and probably not very fast (Larrabee)
Yeahhhhh... |
Corwain
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Posted - 2009.02.02 18:47:00 -
[10]
To quote SNL's Celebrity Jeopardy parody of Sean Connery: "Gussy it up any way you like lad, the question is does it work?"
And OpenGL does indeed work. DirectX doesn't. |
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Bumbum George
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Posted - 2009.02.02 18:56:00 -
[11]
Why does the Linux client suck?
Because they let TransGaming do the work and TransGaming suck! On top of that they even charge money for sucking |
WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.02 19:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Corwain To quote SNL's Celebrity Jeopardy parody of Sean Connery: "Gussy it up any way you like lad, the question is does it work?"
And OpenGL does indeed work. DirectX doesn't.
Yes it works great. Why should the majority of ppl sacrifice graphics for compatibility would the minority. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
"Nothing about Eve should be easy. Not even ganking." -Rhohan
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.02.02 19:03:00 -
[13]
em why are you moaning here ccp dont make the linux client as far as i am awear.
and as said i dont think CCP should divert any more recoursed since so little of the playerbase uses linux.
if you want premium go mac or M$ TBH
This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
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WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.02 19:06:00 -
[14]
If anything linux should support directx. not CCP support linux.
Get a main stream operating system for god sakes.
Theres no point in having the best operating system in the universe it it doesn't run anything at all. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
"Nothing about Eve should be easy. Not even ganking." -Rhohan
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.02.02 19:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: WarlockX Edited by: WarlockX on 02/02/2009 19:07:34 If anything linux should support directx. not CCP support linux.
Get a main stream operating system for god sakes.
Theres no point in having the best operating system in the universe it it doesn't run anything at all.
my OS never crashes. wow, thats amazing what software can it run. nothing..
can i haz your forum babies O_O |
Corwain
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Posted - 2009.02.02 19:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: WarlockX Edited by: WarlockX on 02/02/2009 19:07:34 If anything linux should support directx. not CCP support linux.
Are you stupid? Linux can't support DirectX due to Copyright issues. Microsoft isn't just gonna go "sure you can integrate out graphics framework into your operating system. I mean it's not like you're currently our most serious competitor." |
Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.02.02 19:19:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: WarlockX Edited by: WarlockX on 02/02/2009 19:07:34 If anything linux should support directx. not CCP support linux.
Are you stupid? Linux can't support DirectX due to Copyright issues. Microsoft isn't just gonna go "sure you can integrate out graphics framework into your operating system. I mean it's not like you're currently our most serious competitor."
wait lol
sorry i will have to read this again i have tears in my eyes
This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
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WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.02 19:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Corwain Edited by: Corwain on 02/02/2009 19:20:09
Originally by: WarlockX Edited by: WarlockX on 02/02/2009 19:07:34 If anything linux should support directx. not CCP support linux.
Are you stupid? Linux can't support DirectX due to Copyright issues. Microsoft isn't just gonna go "sure you can integrate out graphics framework into your operating system. I mean it's not like you're currently our most serious competitor."
I've played plenty of Linux games with great graphics and you have no idea how easy it is to get programs for Linux. Imagine if Windows Update didn't just update your operating system but actually allowed you to update any one of your programs and search a database of all kinds of programs. Oh, and didn't rely on a web browser.
apt-get and its frontends > GOD.
And Linux is mainstream nowadays.
mcguiver once made a plane from bamboo. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
"Nothing about Eve should be easy. Not even ganking." -Rhohan
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Corwain
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Posted - 2009.02.02 19:31:00 -
[19]
Trolls. If you're not gonna actually discuss the topic don't post. Prove me wrong if I am and you can, but don't troll for no reason. |
WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.02 19:39:00 -
[20]
Edited by: WarlockX on 02/02/2009 19:41:53
Originally by: Corwain Trolls. If you're not gonna actually discuss the topic don't post. Prove me wrong if I am and you can, but don't troll for no reason.
Prove you wrong at what? This is exactly why CCP is getting rid of classic client, so they don't spend more time/resources on supporting every hardware/OS/software combination in the world. You're asking for the complete opposite, you're saying screw the majority support the minority.
You're OS does cool updates. Mine can run EVE premium.
I'll stick to mine. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
"Nothing about Eve should be easy. Not even ganking." -Rhohan
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Sythyss
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2009.02.02 19:39:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Sythyss on 02/02/2009 19:44:08
Originally by: WarlockX
mcguiver once made a plane from bamboo.
wtf? just go away, man. If you're actually going to contribute to the discussion and make some form a viable argument, feel free, but if you're just going to be an ignorant troll, you can leave.
EDIT: and actually most linux users do run eve premium completely fine through wine...this is a discussion about the official client
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WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.02 19:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sythyss
Originally by: WarlockX
mcguiver once made a plane from bamboo.
wtf? just go away, man. If you're actually going to contribute to the discussion and make some form a viable argument, feel free, but if you're just going to be an ignorant troll, you can leave.
The point is, just because someone makes a plane from bamboo doesn't mean you should fly in it.
The main function of an OS is to support software. If you're gonna run an OS that doesn't support all the software you want to run then it defeats the purpose, it doesn't matter what it can do or how fast or stable it is since it fails at it's main function.
I wouldn't buy a car that dispenses ice cream if you can't drive it on the highway. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
"Nothing about Eve should be easy. Not even ganking." -Rhohan
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.02.02 19:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Corwain don't troll for no reason.
Sorry to go even further OT, but that request makes no sense.
The only reason to troll is "for no reason". ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Alex Raptos
Caldari The Firestorm Millennium
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Posted - 2009.02.02 19:57:00 -
[24]
Your post was disappointing.
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.02.02 20:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Corwain
And Linux is mainstream nowadays.
0.81% of computer users use Linux.
so say that again
This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
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Sythyss
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2009.02.02 20:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: WarlockX The point is, just because someone makes a plane from bamboo doesn't mean you should fly in it.
The main function of an OS is to support software. If you're gonna run an OS that doesn't support all the software you want to run then it defeats the purpose, it doesn't matter what it can do or how fast or stable it is since it fails at it's main function.
I wouldn't buy a car that dispenses ice cream if you can't drive it on the highway.
the main purpose of an OS is the ability to support software, and make that process as automated or customized as the user wants, and in that respect linux does a much better job. The only argument you have and ever will have for pro-MS is the fact that more software "just works." That's it, and that's not the OS's fault, the fault lies within the developer's of the software, since such a vast majority of users just happen to use MS as their OS. The problem here is not the OS, it's microsoft's domination of the market atm because of some good early marketing they did, yet despite that, despite that microsoft is some muti-billion dollar company, linux, developed by the community for free, gains on it every year. I mean a couple years ago it would basically be unheard of for a company like CCP to support linux in any way, but now we're at that point, and we're gonna keep pushing it. And as I said, almost every linux user here does run eve premium fine, we're just talking about official support from CCP, so in terms of who can run what, you aren't at a huge upperhand here. |
Sythyss
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2009.02.02 20:25:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Armoured C
Originally by: Corwain
And Linux is mainstream nowadays.
0.81% of computer users use Linux.
so say that again
you have to factor in a lot of that is just corporate-run computers. If you're talking about people's home computers, and just casual computer users like the people here who play eve, the percentage is much higher. |
Corwain
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Posted - 2009.02.02 20:28:00 -
[28]
Okay, you guys seem to be confused about what comes first, the chicken or the egg.
But this isn't a chicken-egg scenario.
You're asking for Linux to be compatible with programs written for Windows. And guess what, Wine will run most of Windows programs great!
Now, how many Mac programs will Windows run?
As for my original statement even if its perfectly legal for DirectX API to be brought directly from Windows to Linux without any backwards engineering that takes time and often doesn't deliver well, that still doesn't mean Linux SHOULD do that. I mean the original argument is that OpenGL isn't "fancy" enough so instead of Linux ripping off DirectX what they SHOULD do is develop something that is even "fancier" than it is. -- Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Nessaden
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.02 20:30:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Corwain
And Linux is mainstream nowadays.
Inaccurate.
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Corwain
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Posted - 2009.02.02 20:33:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nessaden
Originally by: Corwain
And Linux is mainstream nowadays.
Inaccurate.
Originally by: Sythyss
Originally by: Armoured C
Originally by: Corwain
And Linux is mainstream nowadays.
0.81% of computer users use Linux.
so say that again
Read the thread before you post. -- Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
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