Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Bishop Ares
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 13:27:00 -
[1]
I was thinking today that there aught to be a option you can click on a wreck to "Ask permission to salvage".
You click on it and it sends a popup to the creator of the wreckage. They either accept or deny, and thats it. You can also have preferences to set "always ask", "always deny" or "always accept".
Sounds simple doesn't it? Sure it would reduce ninja salvaging a bit, but it wouldn't kill it completely. People could still make their living doing it, and they'd **** people off less for doing it because they'd always be salvaging stuff that people aren't going to bother to salvage. Sounds like a win win to me. |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 14:39:00 -
[2]
So what's the point?
Someone tells me "no". Ok, I'm still going to activate my salvager. Seems like a pointless feature that honestly won't do anything at all. You could simply ask in local or a priv convo if you really feel the need to be polite. |
Reeno Coleman
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 14:46:00 -
[3]
EVE is meant to have conflicts, EVE is meant to have crime. The system as it works by now is totally intentional.
I heard "Hello Kitty's Awesome Online Adventures" is looking for subscribers. |
Tai Paktu
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 19:41:00 -
[4]
The very definition of ninja salvaging is salvaging wrecks that aren't your regardless of permission. Permission isn't even required because there's no ownership. The Devs have stated multiple times in threads and the GMs have responded to petitions the same way. Creating a wreck implies ownership only of the content within the wreck (i.e. the loot) not the salvage. Salvage is produced by the salvager activating a module and gathering the materials, same as mining. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 19:51:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 05/02/2009 19:51:20 These "How to fix ninjasalvaging" threads are incredibly stupid. In order for it to make any sense or get anywhere, you need to convince us that ninjasalvaging is a problem in the first place.
|
Marius Deterium
Caldari The Hull Miners Union
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 21:49:00 -
[6]
Holy crap the carebears in empire take their garbage seriously. --- Mining hulls for the juicy goods inside.
Good...bad, I'm the guy with the gun. |
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 22:19:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 05/02/2009 22:24:41
Originally by: Marius Deterium Holy crap the carebears in empire take their garbage seriously.
Yeah, yer a moron. If it was garbage no one would whine about it.
I dunno about you, but my "garbage" is worth around 5-8 mil per lvl 4.
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 05/02/2009 19:51:20 These "How to fix ninjasalvaging" threads are incredibly stupid. In order for it to make any sense or get anywhere, you need to convince us that ninjasalvaging is a problem in the first place.
Obviously quite a few people think it's a problem. Subject keeps comin up don't it?
It's the exact same argument that went around for jet cans. Enough people cried that cans got changed to flag people that took from them.
Guess what? If enough people whine, salvaging a wreck that isn't yours will flag you as well. Keep it up, the more people you **** off the quicker change will come.
And yes wrecks belong to someone. Click on one and select "show info". Yeah there's a name there. If you blow up a yellow wreck in high sec, see how long it takes concord to show up. This is why so many consider it stealing.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 22:37:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 05/02/2009 22:39:35 Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 05/02/2009 22:38:52
Quote: Obviously quite a few people think it's a problem. Subject keeps comin up don't it?
Irrelevant. People thinking it bad does not make it bad. You need to convince CCP that it's bad, until you do, this thread is useless.
Quote: I dunno about you, but my "garbage" is worth around 5-8 mil per lvl 4.
Only 5-8 mil? Please, come to Penirgman and run some Sansha missions. I'll be waiting
Quote: It's the exact same argument that went around for jet cans. Enough people cried that cans got changed to flag people that took from them.
Can you link me to a post where CCP publicly came out and said that being able to nab stuff from cans/wrecks without aggression was a good, intended mechanic? I bet you can't. It worked like that for awhile and was legal, but that didn't mean CCP liked it. Eventually, it got changed. To quote CCP PrismX
Quote: 's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding
Game over. Unlike nabbing loot from cans without aggression, CCP likes the current mechanic and the way it affects gameplay.
Quote: And yes wrecks belong to someone. Click on one and select "show info". Yeah there's a name there. If you blow up a yellow wreck in high sec, see how long it takes concord to show up. This is why so many consider it stealing.
Nope. The little picture refers to the person who owns the loot inside the wreck, not the wreck itself. The picture appearing on the "show info" of the wreck is purely an interface convenience.
Quote: Guess what? If enough people whine, salvaging a wreck that isn't yours will flag you as well. Keep it up, the more people you **** off the quicker change will come.
I personally have nothing to lose if they do, having a gank tempest in station. I'm merely arguing the point because
-Not all ninjas have a gank BS, especially the newer ones. -Salvaging is NOT supposed to be just extra lootz for a missionrunner, but a separate profession. |
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 23:05:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 05/02/2009 23:14:36
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Can you link me to a post where CCP publicly came out and said that being able to nab stuff from cans/wrecks without aggression was a good, intended mechanic? I bet you can't. It worked like that for awhile and was legal, but that didn't mean CCP liked it. Eventually, it got changed.
Still looking for an "official CCP post" But I've found 5 or 6 of these so far:
Posted - 2006.07.03 03:34:00
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
I agree a small security loss of 0.1 or 0.05 per can theft might be a good idea. After all you steal and it would make sense if you lose sec status because of it. Someone who steals isn't trustworthy.
But you've jetissoned the can, so its no longer yours.
Miners are quite lucky that CCP even introduced can flagging: for years they stated over and over that they would never do such a thing. Asking for more is... arrogant, if anything.
Same exact argument but I'll keep looking.
I was there for the argument's and recall seeing official quotes posted a few times. I just don't remember exactly where.
BTW an official post by ccp doesn't make it law. They've eaten thier words so many times that they usually won't even post on the boards anymore.
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
-Salvaging is NOT supposed to be just extra lootz for a missionrunner, but a separate profession.
Garbage collector was considered a profession before there were wrecks and ships blew up into jet cans. Some people still do it.
|
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 23:20:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass And yes wrecks belong to someone. Click on one and select "show info". Yeah there's a name there. If you blow up a yellow wreck in high sec, see how long it takes concord to show up. This is why so many consider it stealing.
Nope. The little picture refers to the person who owns the loot inside the wreck, not the wreck itself. The picture appearing on the "show info" of the wreck is purely an interface convenience.
So why does concord show up if you blow up an empty wreck someone else's picture on it?
|
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 23:37:00 -
[11]
Quote: Still looking for an "official CCP post" But I've found 5 or 6 of these so far:
If they stayed "Over and over" that they would "Never do it" then it should be hideously easy to find a CCP post confirming it. Thus, I conclude that the guy who posted that is full of ****.
Quote:
BTW an official post by ccp doesn't make it law. They've eaten thier words so many times that they usually won't even post on the boards anymore.
So CCP PrismX really has absolutely no idea what CCP's intentions were regarding the salvaging system?
there's a difference between them stating that something's allowed and that something's a good mechanic working as intended.
Quote: So why does concord show up if you blow up an empty wreck with someone else's picture on it?
Probably because the wreck is treated as a container containing your loot even if it's empty. Either that, or it was a throwback to the days where the absolute only use for a wreck was to gather loot, and the programming time it would take to exempt empty wrecks from CONCORD response would not be worthwhile.
|
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 23:53:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 05/02/2009 23:59:36
Originally by: Kahega Amielden So CCP PrismX really has absolutely no idea what CCP's intentions were regarding the salvaging system?
I'm quite sure CCP PrismX is "in the know". He's just one guy though huh? And probably not at the top of the food chain. How many times has CCP changed thier plans after someone throws up a post? How many times have they had to change thier features list after the fact?
Hey this looks familiar:
Posted - 2005.07.13 12:59:00 - [11]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just have A freind Collecting the Loot for you.
Loot theivery is a valid playstyle, As is Ore theivery. If you dont like dont hunt where there is people around.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Still lookin. Gettin closer. null Try this for a blast from the past. Same **** different day. |
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 00:17:00 -
[13]
Hey look what I found:
Originally by: Siri Danae Posted - 2005.06.21 16:00:00
Edited by: Siri Danae on 21/06/2005 16:01:35 Have any of you read the statement under 'Find an Answer' on the left-hand menu (Linkage?) that reads as follows: ------ Question Why is it so easy to steal ore ?
Answer The regular containers were designed to jettison unwanted items into space or to hold loot from blown up ships. They were designed so that any player could take from them because that was essential for them to function as they were intended. Players later invented the "container mining" method after noticing that the containers could hold way more than any cargo hold. This use for the containers was never intended and it has the obvious flaw that any player with a reduced sense of right and wrong can come by and take everything from the container and no one can do anything about it.
This risk should be known to all players and there will be no reimbursement for ore lost this way. Also, ore "theft" is not considered harassment so no punishment will be dealt out to those who choose to "steal". Players who are thinking of taking up a career as ore thiefs should note that they will face a lifetime of unpopularity and unhappiness as a result.
CCP has decided to meet players halfway by implementing secure containers that can be bought on the market and have the advantage of being equipped with a password lock. These containers cost money and do not hold the vast amount of ore that the regular containers do. However, with good organization and frequent ore pickups using Industrial ships, they can be very useful for large scale mining operations.
The bottom line is: If you use regular containers to store your ore you assume all the risk. Having your valuables floating in space in an unsecured container is equivalent to throwing money on the street. Should you lurk nearby and wait for someone to take the money and then attack him, the police would deal with you, not him. The same goes in Eve. If you attack a player who just took "your" ore from a regular container in a system with a security level of 0.5 or higher. You will be destroyed by Concord. ------
Ladies and Gentlemen, you already got your fix, it was the secure can. It was due to shortsighted abuse of these cans by corporations that they were made unanchorable in highsec space. If you could not be trusted with a secure can, why should you be trusted with life and death power over unorthodox mineral acquisition agents?
On another note, this has been beaten to death in the general forums, its been overdiscussed to no avail in the crime and punishment forum, why are you sullying this forum with another thread filled with complaints and overzealous vigilante dreams?
The thread doesn't show up on the eve forum anymore but here's a link to eve-search.
Dunno why I bothered, yer just gonna put a spin on it.
|
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 00:24:00 -
[14]
Anyway the point is: taking loot from a loot/jet can was never considered theft, and as such you were never flagged. Intended mechanic.
Things change despite offical posts.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 00:37:00 -
[15]
Quote:
I'm quite sure CCP PrismX is "in the know". He's just one guy though huh? And probably not at the top of the food chain. How many times has CCP changed thier plans after someone throws up a post? How many times have they had to change thier features list after the fact?
I've never seen them change their opinion of the core design of a profession.
Quote:
The thread doesn't show up on the eve forum anymore but here's a link to eve-search.
Dunno why I bothered, yer just gonna put a spin on it.
Was a CCP response to emergent gameplay. The reason jetcans originally didn't flag anyone is because, beforehand, their only purpose was to drop **** into space.
The players found a new use for the jetcan, which was to mine into. Secure cans were introduced, with the notable disadvantage of being tiny. CCP decided later that using a jetcan as temporary storage rather than a waste disposal method was an interesting twist on gameplay and changed aggression rules around to accommodate that.
There is no such emergent gameplay here. Salvaging is and always was a profession to extract valuable stuff from a floating wreck. It was never anything more or anything less. As such, there's nothing for CCP to reconsider. |
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 00:52:00 -
[16]
Yup see, here's the spin.
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Was a CCP response to emergent gameplay. The reason jetcans originally didn't flag anyone is because, beforehand, their only purpose was to drop **** into space.
Emergent gameplay? The game had already been out for 2 years.
Jet can's and loot cans were one and the same. There were no wrecks. You blew up a ship and a jet/loot can appeared. Originally you couldn't even add to a can once it was in space. They changed that mechanic later as well.
Anyone could take anything from any can, loot or jet, and it ****ed people off. "Wreck" stealing wasn't considered stealing. It's the EXACT same arguement. Enough people screamed and intended mechanics got changed.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 00:59:00 -
[17]
Emergent gameplay isn't when CCP changes something, emergent gameplay is when the players use a game mechanic in a new, unexpected way. Otherwise known as an EXPLOIT, but one that CCP thought wasn't overpowered and could be molded into a cool game mechanic.
Quote: Jet can's and loot cans were one and the same. Thereeven were no wrecks. You blew up a ship and a jet/loot can appeared. Originally you couldn't add to a can once it was in space. They changed that mechanic later as well.
You couldn't add stuff to cans because, again, they were initially designed as simply **** floating in space. As far as looting from destroyed NPCs, it was more or less irrelevant. You couldn't be probed down in a mission until Revelations introduced scan probes. |
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 01:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden You couldn't add stuff to cans because, again, they were initially designed as simply **** floating in space. As far as looting from destroyed NPCs, it was more or less irrelevant. You couldn't be probed down in a mission until Revelations introduced scan probes.
As I've said twice now: it wasn't just jet cans. Get a juicy spawn, some nice factions loot, a faction ship bpc? People could steal your loot and you had to take the security hit to attack them, because it wasn't yours. It was just wreckage in space.
Everything was free for all, just like salvage is now. How is this any different?
|
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 01:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden As far as looting from destroyed NPCs, it was more or less irrelevant. You couldn't be probed down in a mission until Revelations introduced scan probes.
Yeah cause you couldn't run static plexes all day long for some of the best cash in the game. riiiight.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 01:12:00 -
[20]
The sec hit for popping a ship in lowsec is virtually nothing. If someone warps into you on a lowsec belt, I guarantee they're not there for the loot. As for hisec...no one seriously rats in hisec, so that's more or less irrelevant.
Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
|
|
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 01:15:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden The sec hit for popping a ship in lowsec is virtually nothing. If someone warps into you on a lowsec belt, I guarantee they're not there for the loot. As for hisec...no one seriously rats in hisec, so that's more or less irrelevant.
It's doesn't matter what the sec hit was. You were the criminal because you shot at someone who took your extremely profitable wreckage that didn't belong to anyone.
Sound familiar?
|
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 01:17:00 -
[22]
Enough spin. If enough people ***** and moan, it'll get changed. Just like before.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 01:20:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 06/02/2009 01:21:23 Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 06/02/2009 01:20:33
Quote:
Yeah cause you couldn't run static plexes all day long for some of the best cash in the game.
Loot was designed as one of the rewards for blowing up rats. That's why any ship with a cargohold can pick up said loot
Quote: It's doesn't matter what the sec hit was. You were the criminal because you shot at someone who took your extremely profitable wreckage that didn't belong to anyone.
The penalty was tiny enough to be more or less pointless. Again, no one is going to warp to you in a lowsec belt just to grab some rat loot.
Quote: Enough spin. If enough people ***** and moan, it'll get changed. Just like before.
Whatever. Not that it really matters to me of course, as a missionrunner would have to be ******ed to fire at a ninjasalvager anyway, Fortunately for the new players, however, you're wrong.
Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
|
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 01:30:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Whatever. Not that it really matters to me of course, as a missionrunner would have to be ******ed to fire at a ninjasalvager anyway, Fortunately for the new players, however, you're wrong.
I'd happily insta pop a salvage ninja and then dock up to wait out the agression timer. I'd also happily call in a gang mate in a ceptor to pod his ass back to whereever he came from. I'll live with the risks.
As it is now I get to watch some ****tard get rich off my work while he hides behind concord. |
Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 01:37:00 -
[25]
If there is no problem, there is nothing to fix.
Move along, nothing to see here. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 01:37:00 -
[26]
Quote: I'd happily insta pop a salvage ninja and then dock up to wait out the agression timer. I'd also happily call in a gang mate in a ceptor to pod his ass back to whereever he came from. I'll live with the risks.
Instapop...seriously? How do you plan on instapopping a small frig?
|
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 01:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Instapop...seriously? How do you plan on instapopping a small frig?
Have you never used a t2 tempest with 1400's on a t1 frigate or destroyer? Even a cruiser is a two volley. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 01:46:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Have you never used a t2 tempest with 1400's on a t1 frigate or destroyer? Even a cruiser is a two volley.
Ever tried to hit an ABing frigate with 1400mm artillery? |
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 01:48:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
Have you never used a t2 tempest with 1400's on a t1 frigate or destroyer? Even a cruiser is a two volley.
Ever tried to hit an ABing frigate with 1400mm artillery?
Yer way off topic. And sure anything outside 20km easy. Inside 20km, t2 drones work well.
|
SDragoon
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 07:24:00 -
[30]
I fail to see the problem here, why not just salvage as you go along? Or you could even bring along a friend in a fast ship to do it for you.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |