Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Thann Starlinbow
Minmatar Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:05:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Thann Starlinbow on 05/02/2009 15:09:00 With CCP doing a lot for the 'New Player Experience', I think one of the best things they could do would be to remove the epic waste of time and hugely boring timesink that we call Learning skills.
I can't think of a single person that thinks they are in any way 'fun' to train. And everyone tells new players "You need to train your learning skills now!" essentially keeping them from training more 'fun' things in their first month or two of game play. I imagine many people have decided "Eh, forget it" and quit the game over this.
So I'd like to propose a removal of the Learning skills. IF POSSIBLE, vets should have the skillpoints refunded and allow them to place it wherever they want. If that is to technically complicated, then just remove them.
Boost everyones attributes by 8-9 points and be done with this terrible timesink of a 'skilltree'.
|
Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:13:00 -
[2]
Kill them with fire. I don't care that I'll lose SP. They are the biggest waste of time and a completely arbitrary timesink that discourages new players. New players should be discouraged by the fact that New Eden is a cold, harsh world, not because you have to spend a month essentially training nothing so you can be competitive. |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:15:00 -
[3]
The decision to train or not train learning skills is up to the individual (I know I didn't max them out first thing, and I still have a some to training to do to make them perfect after 3 years playing).
The best real-world analogy would be "the learning skills are like saving money". The sooner you start saving, the more the interest compounds over the long term. However, you can't have any fun with the money you are saving. Make a decision.
Leave it alone. Leave it a decision for each pilot.
Not supported. |
Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:15:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Tarminic Kill them with fire. I don't care that I'll lose SP. They are the biggest waste of time and a completely arbitrary timesink that discourages new players. New players should be discouraged by the fact that New Eden is a cold, harsh world, not because you have to spend a month essentially training nothing so you can be competitive.
|
Thann Starlinbow
Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:15:00 -
[5]
I thought it was funnier the way you put it on SHC, Tarm. ;) |
van Uber
SAE Academy
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tarminic Kill them with fire. I don't care that I'll lose SP. They are the biggest waste of time and a completely arbitrary timesink that discourages new players. New players should be discouraged by the fact that New Eden is a cold, harsh world, not because you have to spend a month essentially training nothing so you can be competitive.
If I never see my SP again. So be it. |
Thann Starlinbow
Minmatar Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:17:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri The decision to train or not train learning skills is up to the individual (I know I didn't max them out first thing, and I still have a some to training to do to make them perfect after 3 years playing).
The best real-world analogy would be "the learning skills are like saving money". The sooner you start saving, the more the interest compounds over the long term. However, you can't have any fun with the money you are saving. Make a decision.
Leave it alone. Leave it a decision for each pilot.
Not supported.
So what you're saying is that a pilot fresh to the game should 'save' his money and not have any fun with it, essentially encouraging him to quit because the game is boring?
Terrible reason, sir. |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:19:00 -
[8]
Reasoning is too weak for this proposal.
Not supported. |
Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity Fluidic Anti-Gravity
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:20:00 -
[9]
I hate having to tell new players to just sit on their asses and train learning skills, so yeah, remove them completely and give everyone the attribute increase. I dont care if I loose SP or if it gets refunded (would be nice of course) but it would truly be better for the game if there were no learning skills. |
Thann Starlinbow
Minmatar Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Drake Draconis Reasoning is too weak for this proposal.
Not supported.
Exactly how is 'Learning skills are not fun at all, add nothing to the game and actively discourage new players from staying' weak? |
|
Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri The decision to train or not train learning skills is up to the individual (I know I didn't max them out first thing, and I still have a some to training to do to make them perfect after 3 years playing).
The best real-world analogy would be "the learning skills are like saving money". The sooner you start saving, the more the interest compounds over the long term. However, you can't have any fun with the money you are saving. Make a decision.
Leave it alone. Leave it a decision for each pilot.
Not supported.
So say you're going to an amusement park. You can either enter the theme park now, but you have to walk half as fast as you normally do to the rides and pay twice as much for food. Or you can wait outside for 6 hours, and be able to walk normally once you get in and pay the normal price for food.
Now, are you more likely to: 1. Go in immediately 2. Wait outside 3. Find an amusement park that doesn't arbitrarily punish you for wanting to ride the rides |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:29:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 05/02/2009 15:29:30
Originally by: Thann Starlinbow
Originally by: Drake Draconis Reasoning is too weak for this proposal.
Not supported.
Exactly how is 'Learning skills are not fun at all, add nothing to the game and actively discourage new players from staying' weak?
Trying using that gray matter in your skull.
So you eliminate learning skills..... nothing changes. starting skill points get boosted for the char that gets started. Whoopee right?
leaving them alone harms no one either.
too weak of a proposal. There are more important matters to resolve.
Not supported.
This is the same arguing if there's a point to have rookie ships or not. Useless to everyone... cant reprocess... cant sell back.... only get's used when you start the game... rather have just a pod or something or better yet a shuttle.
Its an argument that goes nowhere real quick because its a waste of everyones bloody time.
Your just sore because you want more skill points for free or little time. That's the truth of the matter here.
If you don't like them... then don't train them... DUH! =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com =============== |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:33:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Santiago Fahahrri on 05/02/2009 15:33:16
Originally by: Thann Starlinbow So what you're saying is that a pilot fresh to the game should 'save' his money and not have any fun with it, essentially encouraging him to quit because the game is boring?
Terrible reason, sir.
That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying it's an individual decsion. I said that I still haven't finished all of my learning skills. I like to balance saving my money with enjoying it, so to speak.
Those who choose to invest should be rewarded with the gains. Those who choose to party should be rewarded with the fun.
Taking away the decision is not Eve.
~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Thann Starlinbow
Minmatar Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Drake Draconis Edited by: Drake Draconis on 05/02/2009 15:29:30
Originally by: Thann Starlinbow
Originally by: Drake Draconis Reasoning is too weak for this proposal.
Not supported.
Exactly how is 'Learning skills are not fun at all, add nothing to the game and actively discourage new players from staying' weak?
Trying using that gray matter in your skull.
So you eliminate learning skills..... nothing changes. starting skill points get boosted for the char that gets started. Whoopee right?
leaving them alone harms no one either.
too weak of a proposal. There are more important matters to resolve.
Not supported.
This is the same arguing if there's a point to have rookie ships or not. Useless to everyone... cant reprocess... cant sell back.... only get's used when you start the game... rather have just a pod or something or better yet a shuttle.
Its an argument that goes nowhere real quick because its a waste of everyones bloody time.
Your just sore because you want more skill points for free or little time. That's the truth of the matter here.
If you don't like them... then don't train them... DUH!
Look, I've been playing this game for three years now. I got my Learning skills out of the way a LONG time ago and I don't care if they remove them and I never see the SP again. Check my character out in game if you don't believe me. This is about the new player experience.
Learning skills are a horrible waste of time that only discourages people from playing because they arn't training the 'fun' skills that allow them to fly new ships or use new modules.
Rookie ships serve a purpose because you have to start somewhere. Learning skills serve no purpose other than "You have to train this skill to be competitive, but it doesn't help you in any other way, nor is it fun."
Try again.
|
Thann Starlinbow
Minmatar Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Edited by: Santiago Fahahrri on 05/02/2009 15:33:16
Originally by: Thann Starlinbow So what you're saying is that a pilot fresh to the game should 'save' his money and not have any fun with it, essentially encouraging him to quit because the game is boring?
Terrible reason, sir.
That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying it's an individual decsion. I said that I still haven't finished all of my learning skills. I like to balance saving my money with enjoying it, so to speak.
Those who choose to invest should be rewarded with the gains. Those who choose to party should be rewarded with the fun.
Taking away the decision is not Eve.
Terrible reasoning. Every rookie that joins the game is told "You HAVE to train learning skills or you won't be competetive." So everyone does, because no one wants their character to fall behind and everyone wants to advance as fast as possible.
but these skills are NOT fun to train and discourage people from staying with the game.
|
Pattern Clarc
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:38:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 05/02/2009 15:38:14
____
My Blog Is Awesome
|
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:39:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 05/02/2009 15:40:15
Originally by: Thann Starlinbow
Originally by: Drake Draconis Edited by: Drake Draconis on 05/02/2009 15:29:30
Originally by: Thann Starlinbow
Originally by: Drake Draconis Reasoning is too weak for this proposal.
Not supported.
Exactly how is 'Learning skills are not fun at all, add nothing to the game and actively discourage new players from staying' weak?
Trying using that gray matter in your skull.
So you eliminate learning skills..... nothing changes. starting skill points get boosted for the char that gets started. Whoopee right?
leaving them alone harms no one either.
too weak of a proposal. There are more important matters to resolve.
Not supported.
This is the same arguing if there's a point to have rookie ships or not. Useless to everyone... cant reprocess... cant sell back.... only get's used when you start the game... rather have just a pod or something or better yet a shuttle.
Its an argument that goes nowhere real quick because its a waste of everyones bloody time.
Your just sore because you want more skill points for free or little time. That's the truth of the matter here.
If you don't like them... then don't train them... DUH!
Look, I've been playing this game for three years now. I got my Learning skills out of the way a LONG time ago and I don't care if they remove them and I never see the SP again. Check my character out in game if you don't believe me. This is about the new player experience.
Learning skills are a horrible waste of time that only discourages people from playing because they arn't training the 'fun' skills that allow them to fly new ships or use new modules.
Rookie ships serve a purpose because you have to start somewhere. Learning skills serve no purpose other than "You have to train this skill to be competitive, but it doesn't help you in any other way, nor is it fun."
Try again.
Your argument is completely based on discouragement.
Fine.... take it further...
how long does it take to train up to an Hulk? How about a Marauder? How about a Black Ops Ship? A Carrier?
Oops... did I strike a nerve?
How about you plug your brain in... before you start spouting off.
People leave this game for weeks on end for those skills... learning skills being in... or out... changes nothing.
come up with a valid argument.. and you'll get my support.. otherwise go bug someone else. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com =============== |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Thann Starlinbow Every rookie that joins the game is told "You HAVE to train learning skills or you won't be competetive." So everyone does, because no one wants their character to fall behind and everyone wants to advance as fast as possible.
Obviously not everyone does. I didn't. Yes, I heard that advice.
I made my own decision. I'm not a sheep.
Eve is about hard decisions that have real consquences. Taking away from that would be bad.
I'm sure there are other pilots out there who don't take all of the advice given to them. I highly encourage more people to try thinking for themselves from time to time. :) ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Thann Starlinbow
Minmatar Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:44:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Your argument is completely based on discouragement.
Fine.... take it further...
how long does it take to train up to an Hulk? How about a Marauder? How about a Black Ops Ship? A Carrier?
Oops... did I strike a nerve?
How about you plug your brain in... before you start spouting off.
People leave this game for weeks on end for those skills... learning skills being in... or out... changes nothing.
come up with a valid argument.. and you'll get my support.. otherwise go bug someone else.
*Facepalm*
You don't see the difference between training to be able to fly a ship.. going "Oooh, I can fly X in another 3 days!" and training a skill.. that lets you train better?
If you can't see the difference, you're not worth discussing it with. Get out.
|
Thann Starlinbow
Minmatar Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Originally by: Thann Starlinbow Every rookie that joins the game is told "You HAVE to train learning skills or you won't be competetive." So everyone does, because no one wants their character to fall behind and everyone wants to advance as fast as possible.
Obviously not everyone does. I didn't. Yes, I heard that advice.
I made my own decision. I'm not a sheep.
Eve is about hard decisions that have real consquences. Taking away from that would be bad.
I'm sure there are other pilots out there who don't take all of the advice given to them. I highly encourage more people to try thinking for themselves from time to time. :)
This doesn't take away from the 'hard decisions' of EVE. Learning skills are just a useless time sink.
New players shouldn't quit because of "I have to train for over a month just to learn to train skills?"
They should quit because "Man, this game is HARSH. I just lost my 3b isk faction battleship!!"
|
|
whydirt
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:48:00 -
[21]
Edited by: whydirt on 05/02/2009 15:48:52 Get rid of them. It's one thing to add in timesink skills for veteran players to open up high-level ships and equipment, but the whole Learning skills group is tedious, boring, and scares away new players.
|
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Thann Starlinbow [ New players shouldn't quit because of "I have to train for over a month just to learn to train skills?"
They should quit because "Man, this game is HARSH. I just lost my 3b isk faction battleship!!"
They don't *have* to train the learning skills first man.
Newbies shouldn't have 3billion anything ships.
Eve isn't supposed to be that easy. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Thann Starlinbow
Minmatar Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Originally by: Thann Starlinbow [ New players shouldn't quit because of "I have to train for over a month just to learn to train skills?"
They should quit because "Man, this game is HARSH. I just lost my 3b isk faction battleship!!"
They don't *have* to train the learning skills first man.
Newbies shouldn't have 3billion anything ships.
Eve isn't supposed to be that easy.
I was obviously using hyperbole to prove my point. Don't take the arguement litereally.
Yes, they don't *HAVE* to train them first.. but with almost everyone telling them they should and telling them how "you'll fall behind if you don't train this useless timesink of an unfun skill" most of them do.. or quit.
That's the point.
|
Greme
Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 16:00:00 -
[24]
As an 04 player and thus one who may lose out from this, I still heartily endorse this.
For a newbie, having to train to be able to train properly is so ******ed that it drives a great deal of friendly newbies away :/
|
Vladmier
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 16:05:00 -
[25]
Support added! It's a stupid idea, and a real turn-off for newcomers to the game.
|
Esmenet
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 16:06:00 -
[26]
Learning skills are boring. But i'd like to see those that spent a lot of sp in learning skills get a refund for them.
|
Vladmier
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 16:14:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Drake Draconis Edited by: Drake Draconis on 05/02/2009 15:29:30
Originally by: Thann Starlinbow
Originally by: Drake Draconis Reasoning is too weak for this proposal.
Not supported.
Exactly how is 'Learning skills are not fun at all, add nothing to the game and actively discourage new players from staying' weak?
Trying using that gray matter in your skull.
So you eliminate learning skills..... nothing changes. starting skill points get boosted for the char that gets started. Whoopee right?
leaving them alone harms no one either.
too weak of a proposal. There are more important matters to resolve.
Not supported.
This is the same arguing if there's a point to have rookie ships or not. Useless to everyone... cant reprocess... cant sell back.... only get's used when you start the game... rather have just a pod or something or better yet a shuttle.
Its an argument that goes nowhere real quick because its a waste of everyones bloody time.
Your just sore because you want more skill points for free or little time. That's the truth of the matter here.
If you don't like them... then don't train them... DUH!
You sir have THE WORST logic.
The point being made, is that new people are forced to train for skills which do NOTHING apart from making them able to train other skills at the same rate as people already in game. If you don't train them, you fall behind as a newbie. If you DO train them you'll be able to train skills quicker later on, but for your first month, you are unable to fly anything other than a burst. It's a lose lose situation.
It is completely NOT the same as training for skills that let you use new guns and ships, because these skills actually lead to an end product rather than an acquisition of attributes, and thus the new players can think "Oh hay, I'll actually be able to fly that cool rifter soon!".
Originally by: Drake Draconis So you eliminate learning skills..... nothing changes. starting skill points get boosted for the char that gets started. Whoopee right?
leaving them alone harms no one either.
Nothing changes for the new players apart from they do not have to get bored out of their wits for the first month. I know personally of friends who left the game because of this ******ed mechanism. They were even told that you don't need to train learning skills for the first month just to try out new ships, but the fact kept coming back to them that eventually they'd have to train what is, for all intents and purposes, a skill designed to waste time.
And to those saying "you just want to gain some SP". I have no qualms with me ending up the worst for this, by receiving no "free SP". I do not care if my skills just magically disappear and get replaced by attributes, because after years of playing this game, the effect is not great in the grand scheme of things. And the effect is certainly alot lower than the positive effect to newbies. |
Troubadour
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 16:25:00 -
[28]
I agree. Eve is already overwhelming enough to new players. Training many noobs in the past one of the primary goals of mine was to keep them interested in the game, especially through those first 2-3 months when it can be at times a difficult learning experience. Telling them in addition to a steep learning curve, they have to spend 2-3 weeks training essentially NOTHING doesn't help any.
Remove these pointless time-sink skills, give everyone an 8-9 point attribute boost, and leave it at that.
~signed
|
Aloriana Jacques
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 16:51:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri The decision to train or not train learning skills is up to the individual (I know I didn't max them out first thing, and I still have a some to training to do to make them perfect after 3 years playing).
The best real-world analogy would be "the learning skills are like saving money". The sooner you start saving, the more the interest compounds over the long term. However, you can't have any fun with the money you are saving. Make a decision.
Leave it alone. Leave it a decision for each pilot.
Not supported.
QFT. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
|
Mistress Sindall
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 16:54:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tarminic Kill them with fire. I don't care that I'll lose SP. They are the biggest waste of time and a completely arbitrary timesink that discourages new players. New players should be discouraged by the fact that New Eden is a cold, harsh world, not because you have to spend a month essentially training nothing so you can be competitive.
QFT, supporting.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |