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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.
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Posted - 2009.02.09 02:05:00 -
[481]
Couple of things also said on EVE-TV which was ignored (on the early pages at least) in this thread so far;
- Studio asking CCP: You say we lose the sp on the 'ship destruction', what if we eject? CCP answers: Then you're fine, no sp lost. Much laughing ensured, and someone suggested to Verone that he and fellow pirates might actually have this as a new means to ransom people.. 'give me your ship and you will keep your skillpoints'.
- CCP Soundwave asking KIAEddz: What do you look forward to about this expansion? Eddz: Alot of older players sit with near maxed skills, we just got a bunch of longer level 5's to train. Training new skills and ships is exciting.
That's just two reasons why "losing sp on ship destruction" will work. As it's limited to the ship (and you can eject and/or hand it over to save your skillpoints) you can to some extent control it. Also, there's alot of players, like Eddz say, that can "waste" their SP.
This is a way to level the field between younger and older players, to be honest. Personally, I'm full Amarr right now, there's not a ship I don't fly, all skills 4 or 5 basicly (just lolOps and a few other that I have trained but not to a high level). It's not too long til I have to either crosstrain or just max all capital stuff out. And I'm fairly "young", there's a bunch of players that are 2,5 years older than me..
Overall, the losing-skillpoints-on-death takes the risk vs reward to a new level, at the same time it gives older player something to 'dare to risk' that younger ones can't afford to the same extent (but can chose to do). It doesn't look all that bad to me, tbh. |
bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.09 02:09:00 -
[482]
Originally by: Thaylon Sen
Nope... still dont get it. I wont be training the skills to lvl5 only lvl4, so what's that? 24hrs or there abouts? How does that compare to faction battleships? I certainly hope I wont be loosing more than 1 a day anyway :)
Add up all those 24 hours you need to retrain after every bubble camp =P
T3 ships are supposed to be an alternative to t2. Why fly t3 and lose sps when you can just fly t2 then?
It makes no sense.
All this will do is make people even less willing to engage in a fight unless they know they can win for sure, and now it goes even further making sure they can win for sure and not take any losses at all while doing it.
ccp could have let t3 be super versatile and capable of handling various situations, so that people would be more willing to take risks. But with this implementation they will just make people even less willing to risk anything.
I was never planning on using t3 because i don't really like cruisers other than the sheer cost effectiveness that some t1 cruisers can bring. But i don't see t3 being a success because now even people that may have wanted to use them instead of their HACs or whatever will have little incentive to actually do it. And if t3 become under-used (and this will happen with SP loss, the vast majority of people will not bother) then that effects w-spaces desirability as well, and as ive said the whole expansion would become much less an addition to the game than it could have been. |
The Hardman
Amarr Uncle Fester's Olde Tyme Barbershoppe
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Posted - 2009.02.09 02:13:00 -
[483]
Edited by: The Hardman on 09/02/2009 02:15:00 Edited by: The Hardman on 09/02/2009 02:13:24 How many bonuses are we looking at?
If we are looking at 2x Racial Cruiser Bonus 2x Std T3 Bonus 1-2Yx Y Subsystem bonuses
We will have a really really uber ship if you have all subsystems at 5. Probably they will be balanced around having the sub systems at 1 or 2. If they come balanced around having the subsystems at 3 or 4 than I will call them 'prenerfed'.
Rolling around in a T3 ship with all sub system skills at 4 should be similar to rolling around with LG implants in your head, going about with sub systems skills at a 5 should be similar to rolling around with HG implants in your head. |
Lobo Noturno
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Posted - 2009.02.09 02:20:00 -
[484]
Since the T3 are cruiser class ships, they will not have much more DPS than a T2 cruiser, or else they break balance. Since T3 are expensive ships, the risk vs. reward relation is already different than current T2 ships. Now, sp loss mechanics on other MMOs are based on the fact that player loses equivalent gameplay time, since he will need to regain it's sp. Eve sp mechanics are so different than those games that it is actually quite hard to fully comprehend the impact of losing skill points on death and the time lost. Currently, even a death without a clone protection is not too damaging, but we still have no idea on how much skill points time will actually be lost at each death. Since PVP is essentially made for fun, T3 will be rarely used(for the same reason people rarely use T2 ships that are primaried all the time and have no survivability). It is not clear what will be it's capabilities, but I am guessing it will not be a good Lv4 mission runner, so it will also be useless in empire. What is the point of getting ingame a ship that gives little benefit over T2 and much bigger penalties, and will be used by almost no one if that doesn't change?
I really don't think this is a good idea as people are interpreting it. Lots of people were also against speed nerfs, and yet the game clearly improved for many after that. PVPers are not stupid people, they know they are not invulnerable nor infalible, and they will not risk losing SP or training time flying a ship that ends up being only marginaly better, perhaps more flexible than the T2 counterparts.... And my guess is that T3 is to be used for PVP. If it is to be used for exploration, then maybe this have a different equation, but i pretty much prefer to keep flying my Profission EOS...
Lobo
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Soporo
Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.09 03:36:00 -
[485]
Well, like it or not we now know something about the other risks of flying these (likely very expensive) T3 ships.
I wish we knew a bit more about the potential benefits.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.09 03:50:00 -
[486]
where the hell is the dev blog with it coming out for testing in under 20 hours? |
Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.09 04:55:00 -
[487]
Can't really say much at this point. It depends too much on what these ships will be capable of. But from my point of view they would have to be substantially better and more survivable than t2 cruisers to make it any viable.
Many people who use the risk vs. reward argument shouldn't forget that the reward in that case is clearly not flying the ship but what you can accomplish with it. If its not much better then what you can do with t1 or t2 then its probably not worth the greatly increased risk either. So before you cherish the idea i'd wait for what the capabilities of those ships really turn out to be.
That being said it could still be fun. I am not gonna say its a bad idea until i know what ships we're talking about. --
Originally by: kublai on Ankhesentapemkah That said, the "i'm a girl who plays your computer game and i'm not that ugly" has always been a certain winner in the mmo world
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Grath Telkin
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.09 05:12:00 -
[488]
I wonder what all you people thought happened when T2 first came out?
The ships were astronomically expensive compared to now, and yet, miraculously people still flew them into combat.
Hell, BoB built an alliance around the fact that they had so many high sp alts in the alliance, all packing t2 when everybody else was still fumbling in the dark.
The ships will get used, I'd bet my billions on it.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.02.09 05:57:00 -
[489]
I think it's mainly targetted at the high-SP people who have trained most of the stuff that they really want. |
Kytanos Termek
Caldari Darkstorm Command Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.02.09 06:11:00 -
[490]
To be honest. If the ships had some alternate method of skillpoints like the proposed "Ship experience". It would all be good. You can train is normal. and "old" tech 3 vessels have value, personal attachment, yada yada yada.
But as much as ive tried to defend CCP and tech 3. I cannot condone taking away from players normal training time as a mechanic of flying tech 3 vessels. The whole idea of skills is costant advancement. That is the single, core idea. You can train them offline! What other mmo does that? If you have to take time away from your normal training schedule to retrain skills youve already trained before. You are effectivly stuck in one track of advancement. You are not moving forward. This violates the core idea of skillpoints.
As much as I hope and pray it will be the former, I fear that it will be the latter. Every mmo needs it sinks, and i think CCP is going to use tech 3 as a skillpoint sink for those super high sp players. Which intern makes it a bad idea to use when you still got "useful" skills to train. You are not advancing.
In short tech 3 will be the toys of old or foolish. If you have 90mil sp and have trained your gallente titan to 5 out of sheer boredom. This might be a good thing for you. However if your any lower and still have other things to train before you hit that top where you shrug and start training mining skills becuase there is nothing left to train. Then you are restricting yourself and gimping your character advancement.
For those who site risk. Yes you are risking something, But by nature of this risk it limits your advancement. Are you ready to risk that fact that you will effectively stop gaining skillpoints for the next week or so while you retrain? That gallente carrier is starting to look alot further off with all those tech 3 skills to retrain isnt it?
But as for discussion on this thread. I would say it's useless. This late into the development cycle it's set in stone. It may be changed in the future if enough of us can whine at the exact same time, But this little thread naught is puttering in circles. The same discussions and opinions repeating endlessly. Wait until after the information is released. Then we can make a constructive thread with our varying ideals, Opinions, and proposed suggestions on how to change or otherwise improve the system we may or may not see as fundamentally flawed. |
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Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.09 06:54:00 -
[491]
After reading 5 pages of whine I decided to skip the rest and put my opinion down.
CCP has said that the ships will become more efficient with use. This indicates to me a separate action based skill path (rather than the current time based skill path). As you utilise a ship and different goals are reached your ship qualities improve.
It does somewhat make sense. Much like your car at home, the more you drive it the better you get at parking, gear changing, throttle control etc. If you jump in a new car you need to learn those advanced skills all over again.
My biggest concern is the markers CCP will require for ship advancement. Would a gunnery bonus be enacted after 10,000 shots are fired? If so I could shoot my own POS for a few hours to skill up. Same deal with shield, propulsion etc. Even if it was based on number of kills I could destroy my alt's shuttles repeatedly for artificial gain.
Unless CCP find some really unique way to counter this grind effect they will find that before flying their ships in combat people will put time into artificially boosting their ship stats.
I think the core idea is brilliant. To become more efficient with your vessel as you spend more time with it's subsystems. I have spent countless hours 0.0 ratting and doing exploration complexes in my Golem. I would love some sort of performance bonuses to show the ship is weathered and somewhat of a veteran on the field. I know that's somewhat not related as only cruisers are coming out to start with but there's a lot of potential.
A lot of people are saying that this will only benefit carebears. I don't necessarily agree. With only cruiser modifications available it will allow people to really play with these setups and I don't actually think they will be all that expensive (probably cheaper than t2 (HAC etc) after the first couple of months. Now a cruiser only has a limited effectiveness in empire. They might be able to run L3 missions better or be able to solo L4 missions a bit harder than a BS but that's about it.
I think pvpers will jump on these new t3 ships to cruise around 0.0 and have some fun with their new setups. As long as the price isn't too high we will see major utilisation (I would hope prices to be between 50-100m per unit).
In all RL cases a person develops a bond or level of advanced interaction with their commonly used devices. We all have a special way to hold a pen, grabbing a different pen requires a restructure and readjustment. My seat at work has the perfect ass groove and it always takes new seats some time to adjust to my bum.
A formula one driver spends months getting adjusted to their vehicles and in most cases the car is modified to perfectly compliment their driving styles and highest required usage (a driver who pushes corners too hard may have their car riding a different tire tread or type compared to someone who paces themselves through corners).
CCP's biggest challenge I feel will be balancing this to disallow it from being a grind to improve system.
I would love to see these weathered ships to be sold however that would probably be a new are for the current macro miners to jump on, or would really turn it into a grind. Just be great to sell your baby that you have lovingly used in hundreds of encounters but would basically contradict everything I said above (re: bum shaped into seat etc) |
ResearchBunny Beatrix
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Posted - 2009.02.09 07:31:00 -
[492]
Originally by: MotherMoon where the hell is the dev blog with it coming out for testing in under 20 hours?
Quiet, they're still trying to make sure it doesn't nuke boot.ini again.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.09 08:01:00 -
[493]
Originally by: ResearchBunny Beatrix
Originally by: MotherMoon where the hell is the dev blog with it coming out for testing in under 20 hours?
Quiet, they're still trying to make sure it doesn't nuke boot.ini again.
in that case I'll keep my mouth shut
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.02.09 08:07:00 -
[494]
Originally by: ResearchBunny Beatrix
Originally by: MotherMoon where the hell is the dev blog with it coming out for testing in under 20 hours?
Quiet, they're still trying to make sure it doesn't nuke boot.ini again.
I guess loosing SP is nothing compared to loosing boot.ini --
Billion Isk Mission |
Wendy Spacetraveller
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Posted - 2009.02.09 08:27:00 -
[495]
this thread is lol
everytime it's the same thing, everyone and their alts are whining abut how the chages or new content in the next expansion/patch is going to kill eve/create massive amounts of emoragequits/nerf pvp and boost carebears/boost pvp and nerf carebears/is ****ed ******ed and stupid beyond measure and everyone is like "**** that i'm not flying something that takes you down SP with it" and still after the patch everyone will still do it!
I agree it's kind of ******ed to loose SP when loosing the ship (even more ******ed to loose SP just from repacking it) but if CCP feels it's the way to go and continues to feel that way (wich they probably will tbqfh) there's nothing anyone can do to change it!
whait and see... whait and see....
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Navtiqes
Englebarna
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Posted - 2009.02.09 08:48:00 -
[496]
Originally by: kublai Well that just took away all the point in having t3 ships.
Yea, this sentences them to carebear only.
And just think of the whines when they get popped... |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.02.09 09:20:00 -
[497]
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 09/02/2009 09:20:21
Originally by: Navtiqes
Originally by: kublai Well that just took away all the point in having t3 ships.
Yea, this sentences them to carebear only.
And just think of the whines when they get popped...
Yeah, it is the exact same thing with tech 2 ships that nobody flies either, due to the fact that you get practically nothing from insurance when one of those pops. Oh wait a bit... ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.09 09:23:00 -
[498]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: ResearchBunny Beatrix
Originally by: MotherMoon where the hell is the dev blog with it coming out for testing in under 20 hours?
Quiet, they're still trying to make sure it doesn't nuke boot.ini again.
I guess loosing SP is nothing compared to loosing boot.ini
that's for tech 5 mate :)
ou can solo like 20 battlehsips in a tech 5 jovian battleship. But when you die you lose your operating system.
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Navtiqes
Englebarna
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Posted - 2009.02.09 09:29:00 -
[499]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: ResearchBunny Beatrix
Originally by: MotherMoon where the hell is the dev blog with it coming out for testing in under 20 hours?
Quiet, they're still trying to make sure it doesn't nuke boot.ini again.
I guess loosing SP is nothing compared to loosing boot.ini
that's for tech 5 mate :)
ou can solo like 20 battlehsips in a tech 5 jovian battleship. But when you die you lose your operating system.
Tech 6 loss and they take your house. |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.09 09:31:00 -
[500]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:31:25 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:30:58 I reiterated my point on another thread, might as wlel put it in the sodastream here;
You can toot around screaming "EVE is differentz" and "Risk vs reward!!" all you want, but the moment some REAL loss comes into play and people start to cry about it, like a 5 year old kid who got denied his fudcicle, you can all just shut the hell up and take it up the hiney
You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have it, the facts of EVE.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
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Tom Harry
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Posted - 2009.02.09 09:37:00 -
[501]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:31:25 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:30:58 I reiterated my point on another thread, might as wlel put it in the sodastream here;
You can toot around screaming "EVE is differentz" and "Risk vs reward!!" all you want, but the moment some REAL loss comes into play and people start to cry about it, like a 5 year old kid who got denied his fudcicle, you can all just shut the hell up and take it up the hiney
You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have it, the facts of EVE.
I just want to fly lego ships. I never asked for them to be so powerful that they needed skill loss.
Can't the learning bonus + inherant skill loss be some kind of new implant, instead of boxed together with my new ships like some crappy nichT product. |
Reven Cordelle
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.09 09:39:00 -
[502]
Aye, Wheres your Risk Vs Reward now?
You convoluted ****ers.
This is the game you so apparently love - reinforcing that its "harsh" and "not for carebears".
Then CCP serve up a fresh, steaming nugget of Harsh and look at you all, whining that you can't fly the most powerful weaponary in space because you will lose effective SP if you're a **** enough pilot to get blown up in one.
Stop ****ing crying about it and grow some ****ing balls.
Hell, if you can't handle that - jump into a Hulk in Empire like the rest of us and be apparently devoid of risk, so you say.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.02.09 09:46:00 -
[503]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:31:25 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:30:58 I reiterated my point on another thread, might as wlel put it in the sodastream here;
You can toot around screaming "EVE is differentz" and "Risk vs reward!!" all you want, but the moment some REAL loss comes into play and people start to cry about it, like a 5 year old kid who got denied his fudcicle, you can all just shut the hell up and take it up the hiney
You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have it, the facts of EVE.
To be fair this risk is different. They both cost time, but you can always catch up with others with a little hard work, if the loss is only isk. With skill loss your character will be permanently nudged behind, and no amount of hard work will change that. Ofcource there is a limit to what you can learn, so at some point you will catch up in relevant skill, but never in total skillpoints.
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Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.02.09 09:54:00 -
[504]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle Aye, Wheres your Risk Vs Reward now?
You convoluted ****ers.
This is the game you so apparently love - reinforcing that its "harsh" and "not for carebears".
Then CCP serve up a fresh, steaming nugget of Harsh and look at you all, whining that you can't fly the most powerful weaponary in space because you will lose effective SP if you're a **** enough pilot to get blown up in one.
Stop ****ing crying about it and grow some ****ing balls.
Hell, if you can't handle that - jump into a Hulk in Empire like the rest of us and be apparently devoid of risk, so you say.
Well if the risk vs reward balance isn't worth it, people won't fly the ships. Has nothing to do with balls or anything else. People just want the new content to be worth using.
I don't think we know enough to even guess at if it will or won't be worth using. However it has nothing to do with what your griping about. The worst the whiners are doing is assuming too much and too soon.
Funny how quick "carebears" seem to jump at people's throats trying to call them cowards though.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.09 09:56:00 -
[505]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:59:08 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:57:35
Originally by: Gorefacer Well if the risk vs reward balance isn't worth it, people won't fly the ships. Has nothing to do with balls or anything else. People just want the new content to be worth using.
I don't think we know enough to even guess at if it will or won't be worth using. However it has nothing to do with what your griping about. The worst the whiners are doing is assuming too much and too soon.
Funny how quick "carebears" seem to jump at people's throats trying to call them cowards though.
For someone who says a lot of "it's not about", the carebear comment is a bit ironic.
You may not complain about it if the balance is right, but others will. Majority of them will. No matter if you could fly a frigate with a DD strappd to its back, people would complain about SP loss still.
People only ocmplain when it effects them, it's a fact of EVE. very rarely people actually discuss things from a "neutral" point of view.
SP loss would be risk vs reward. People have used it before, it applies here. Balance is ofcourse given, with any game add-on. Finally;
Don't fly what you can't afford to lose
And the hypocrisy i mentioned on the other thread; it's due to people complaining when there's new risks to them.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:01:00 -
[506]
Originally by: Grath Telkin I wonder what all you people thought happened when T2 first came out?
The ships were astronomically expensive compared to now, and yet, miraculously people still flew them into combat.
Hell, BoB built an alliance around the fact that they had so many high sp alts in the alliance, all packing t2 when everybody else was still fumbling in the dark.
The ships will get used, I'd bet my billions on it.
Isk can always be remade, skillpoints are lost forever 0_0
You only need enough isk to do what you want to do, but you always need more skillpoints.
Only people with everyskillat5 can afford to lose skillpoints, and those people who have everyskillat5 are obviously going to be flying a typhoon
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Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:04:00 -
[507]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:59:08 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:57:35
Originally by: Gorefacer Well if the risk vs reward balance isn't worth it, people won't fly the ships. Has nothing to do with balls or anything else. People just want the new content to be worth using.
I don't think we know enough to even guess at if it will or won't be worth using. However it has nothing to do with what your griping about. The worst the whiners are doing is assuming too much and too soon.
Funny how quick "carebears" seem to jump at people's throats trying to call them cowards though.
For someone who says a lot of "it's not about", the carebear comment is a bit ironic.
You may not complain about it if the balance is right, but others will. Majority of them will. No matter if you could fly a frigate with a DD strappd to its back, people would complain about SP loss still.
People only ocmplain when it effects them, it's a fact of EVE. very rarely people actually discuss things from a "neutral" point of view.
SP loss would be risk vs reward. People have used it before, it applies here. Balance is ofcourse given, with any game add-on. Finally;
Don't fly what you can't afford to lose
And the hypocrisy i mentioned on the other thread; it's due to people complaining when there's new risks to them.
I quoted "carebear" as that is how the people I was responding to characterized themselves.
Personally I think if the rewards of t3 justify the risk of SP loss you will see tons of PVPers using t3 and happy to do so.
I don't see the complaints as complaints just about SP loss but of assumptions that SP loss risk will eclipse the rewards of using the ships, thereby rendering the new content pointless to most PVP type players.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:08:00 -
[508]
Originally by: Gorefacer I quoted "carebear" as that is how the people I was responding to characterized themselves.
Personally I think if the rewards of t3 justify the risk of SP loss you will see tons of PVPers using t3 and happy to do so.
I don't see the complaints as complaints just about SP loss but of assumptions that SP loss risk will eclipse the rewards of using the ships, thereby rendering the new content pointless to most PVP type players.
I think we're going into a semantic discussion about "what is acceptable". You're talking from the camp of "if it's fair, it's ok", and i'm talking about the people who complain just because it's a SP loss.
I for one would accept that, say, you get a 10% damage increase in a battleship and you lose 12 hours of training if you pop.
Some would not.
That 10% is a big difference though.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:09:00 -
[509]
Originally by: bff Jill
Originally by: Grath Telkin I wonder what all you people thought happened when T2 first came out?
The ships were astronomically expensive compared to now, and yet, miraculously people still flew them into combat.
Hell, BoB built an alliance around the fact that they had so many high sp alts in the alliance, all packing t2 when everybody else was still fumbling in the dark.
The ships will get used, I'd bet my billions on it.
Isk can always be remade, skillpoints are lost forever 0_0
You only need enough isk to do what you want to do, but you always need more skillpoints.
Only people with everyskillat5 can afford to lose skillpoints, and those people who have everyskillat5 are obviously going to be flying a typhoon
I can afford to lose skill points. I flew my ships just fine months ago with millions less SP and could do so again with that same amount. In fact I didn't upgrade my clone and got popped losing BS V not long ago. While frustrating I continued to play as I always do right up to the time I got the skill back. If I were to risk those SP though I would want an acceptably powerful advantage for doing so.
Skillpoints are only lost until they can be retrained.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:11:00 -
[510]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Gorefacer I quoted "carebear" as that is how the people I was responding to characterized themselves.
Personally I think if the rewards of t3 justify the risk of SP loss you will see tons of PVPers using t3 and happy to do so.
I don't see the complaints as complaints just about SP loss but of assumptions that SP loss risk will eclipse the rewards of using the ships, thereby rendering the new content pointless to most PVP type players.
I think we're going into a semantic discussion about "what is acceptable". You're talking from the camp of "if it's fair, it's ok", and i'm talking about the people who complain just because it's a SP loss.
I for one would accept that, say, you get a 10% damage increase in a battleship and you lose 12 hours of training if you pop.
Some would not.
That 10% is a big difference though.
I can agree with that. For those that are complaining JUST about SP loss in general no matter what the balancing factors are, and if these are the same people spouting risk vs reward on other subjects, then yes they are being hypocritical.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
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