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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.08 19:55:00 -
[1]
So if i'm getting this right then there are 11 scrum teams each with 2 devs on it and a 3rd non dev. So that means with all those people employed by CCP there are only 22 real code producing people working on EVE? - - -
Originally by: CCP Prism X I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
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vvizard NOR
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Posted - 2009.02.08 20:47:00 -
[2]
Who said they cant have developers outside scrum teams? Have they confirmed that every part of EVE is developed using scrum?
Haven't researched this one though, but isn't CCP a public traded company? If so, pretty much all about them (number of employees, profit etc) is public information.
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Aloriana Jacques
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2009.02.08 20:52:00 -
[3]
Originally by: vvizard NOR but isn't CCP a public traded company?
Sorry to say but they're not. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.08 20:54:00 -
[4]
They'll prolly have a huge gfx team with modellers and artistists and such but I'm curious as to the actual number of logic producers (nice word for code monkeys). - - -
Originally by: CCP Prism X I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:04:00 -
[5]
To give some idea, our team (Bifrost) is probably of about average size, and we have (on average) two people with a design background, two people with a QA background and four people with a software background. Some teams are bigger, some are smaller, and most have varying proportions of people from different development backgrounds within their team, depending on what the best mix for that particular team's objectives. |
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CCP Whisper
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:06:00 -
[6]
To add to Greyscale's point above, the teams are not set in stone. So we might lose a developer to another team for a sprint if they need him or her. Likewise we just got a developer added to our team for the current sprint. Many of our devs have several specialisations too, so while they might be mainly focussed on UI they can also work on logic systems or the like. It's what being Agile is all about. |
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari LoneStar Industries FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:27:00 -
[7]
Suond vewy nice. I feel liek want to laern progaming and werk for CCP.
--------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Go vote! Put voice for silent majority. LOVE PVP, HATE grief |
Phantom Slave
JUDGE DREAD Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Suond vewy nice. I feel liek want to laern progaming and werk for CCP.
Oh dear. When did you get back? Oh and I think you should take your boxing gloves off before you try to type on a keyboard, or take your tongue ring out if you're trying to use a Phonetic Synthesizer.
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Kale Kold
Caldari Brutal Seizure
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Suond vewy nice. I feel liek want to laern progaming and werk for CCP.
You can't, your too thick!
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari LoneStar Industries FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:42:00 -
[10]
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:44:00 -
[11]
Stop being mean to Jenny 2.0
*pats Jenny on head* |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Stop being mean to Jenny 2.0
*pats Jenny on head*
Didn't we pass 2.0 some umpteen iterations ago? |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:48:00 -
[13]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 08/02/2009 21:50:47
Originally by: CCP Whisper To add to Greyscale's point above, the teams are not set in stone. So we might lose a developer to another team for a sprint if they need him or her. Likewise we just got a developer added to our team for the current sprint. Many of our devs have several specialisations too, so while they might be mainly focussed on UI they can also work on logic systems or the like. It's what being Agile is all about.
oh so like game testing. cool :)
Quote:
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
hug |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale To give some idea, our team (Bifrost) is probably of about average size, and we have (on average) two people with a design background, two people with a QA background and four people with a software background. Some teams are bigger, some are smaller, and most have varying proportions of people from different development backgrounds within their team, depending on what the best mix for that particular team's objectives.
then what was that about 300 people working on eve?
not trying top push any buttons just trying to figure it all out. |
Seishomaru
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: DrAtomic So if i'm getting this right then there are 11 scrum teams each with 2 devs on it and a 3rd non dev. So that means with all those people employed by CCP there are only 22 real code producing people working on EVE?
You realize most game development studios operate with less than 30 coders? Whole ID staff is less than that.... |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:03:00 -
[16]
This sounds an awful lot like that "buddy programming" fad developers mistakenly took up without any evidence that it worked. Presumably scrum development is proven to work? I don't know much about agile development, I've been raised on the unified process. |
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CCP Whisper
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:05:00 -
[17]
Originally by: MotherMoon
then what was that about 300 people working on eve?
not trying top push any buttons just trying to figure it all out.
No buttons pushed. 300 people working on EVE includes staff who are not assigned to scrum teams. Our operations team is not assigned to a scrum for instance, but they do contribute to the work going on. There's quite a few departments like that who are contributing to the expansion but not in scrum. And the art department is rather large...they might only be split into three or four teams but damn those are big teams.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:07:00 -
[18]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 08/02/2009 22:08:24
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Originally by: MotherMoon
then what was that about 300 people working on eve?
not trying top push any buttons just trying to figure it all out.
No buttons pushed. 300 people working on EVE includes staff who are not assigned to scrum teams. Our operations team is not assigned to a scrum for instance, but they do contribute to the work going on. There's quite a few departments like that who are contributing to the expansion but not in scrum. And the art department is rather large...they might only be split into three or four teams but damn those are big teams.
will you guys need anymore artist in 2-3 years?
or will all the work be done by then (this is a actull fear I have for the many game companies I'm looking at, they will just fire all thier artists once they don't need any more art ) |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:14:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Stop being mean to Jenny 2.0
*pats Jenny on head*
Didn't we pass 2.0 some umpteen iterations ago?
Might be, i just use 2.0 to clarify it's not the original |
Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:25:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Marlenus on 08/02/2009 22:25:59
Originally by: MotherMoon (this is a actull fear I have for the many game companies I'm looking at, they will just fire all thier artists once they don't need any more art )
Any game company worth working for will NEVER stop needing new art. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
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brakespear
Minmatar Heaven Up Here
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Stop being mean to Jenny 2.0
*pats Jenny on head*
Didn't we pass 2.0 some umpteen iterations ago?
Might be, i just use 2.0 to clarify it's not the original
I think it's either 3.2 or 4.0 but whatever I still <3's her -------------------------------------------------- 'people will always be tempted to wipe their feet on anything with 'welcome' written on it.' |
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:31:00 -
[22]
Edited by: CCP Greyscale on 08/02/2009 22:33:25
Originally by: Nyphur This sounds an awful lot like that "buddy programming" fad developers mistakenly took up without any evidence that it worked. Presumably scrum development is proven to work? I don't know much about agile development, I've been raised on the unified process.
I was skeptical when we started, but it definitely works for us. My experience these last few months has been that it makes communication between different disciplines much more efficient, stuff starts being delivered sooner, bugs are fixed quicker and there's more opportunities for review, iteration and improvement.
One of the single biggest "win" changes that's come about as a result is something that I was very skeptical of initially (it sounded like a management fairy-land idea, which are pretty rare around here and thus cause for concern), which is sitting the entire team together in the same area. Being able to resolve minor issues between design, QA and programming staff face-to-face without even having to stand up ensures that those little issues are dealt with as soon as they come up, which cuts down on misunderstandings and lets you make decisions much faster.
So yeah, it does on the surface sound like yet another "management brainwave" of the kind that non-managers dread, but my experience at least has been that it's a solid system that works, provided you follow the spirit rather than the letter of the rules.
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Stop being mean to Jenny 2.0
*pats Jenny on head*
We'll stop being mean to "her" when "She" stops intentionally miss typeing everything she posts.
It's not cute, it's not attractive, it's there to **** people off.
That character has seen more owners then is right.
There are women working corners in major cities saying "Damn girl, you've been passed around to WAY too many people."
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Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Nyphur This sounds an awful lot like that "buddy programming" fad developers mistakenly took up without any evidence that it worked. Presumably scrum development is proven to work? I don't know much about agile development, I've been raised on the unified process.
What you are thinking of is 'pair programming', which was first codified as a key part of 'extreme programming'. That whole philosophy has found wide acceptance in agile and scrum development methods, which are less strict about some of the wackier ideas than extreme programming ever was.
However, 'pair programming' is a wonderful technique that will boost productivity and quality in medium to large teams almost instantly.
You probably think there's no evidence that it works, because you've never bothered looking for any evidence that it works.
In all the teams I've worked on where we tried to get this idea off the ground, the only time we met resistance was with people who first, didn't want to share the glory, and second, didn't want people to see what shoddy code they were writing. Ego is a big problem with developers, but once they let go, they become much better as a result.
Everything about agile development and scrum is pure win from a commercial 'how do we make sure this project is done on time, on budget, and with all the features the customer really wants' aspect. if you don't work this way now, you should.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Marlenus Edited by: Marlenus on 08/02/2009 22:25:59
Originally by: MotherMoon (this is a actull fear I have for the many game companies I'm looking at, they will just fire all thier artists once they don't need any more art )
Any game company worth working for will NEVER stop needing new art.
hey good point.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale One of the single biggest "win" changes that's come about as a result is something that I was very skeptical of initially (it sounded like a management fairy-land idea, which are pretty rare around here and thus cause for concern), which is sitting the entire team together in the same area. Being able to resolve minor issues between design, QA and programming staff face-to-face without even having to stand up ensures that those little issues are dealt with as soon as they come up, which cuts down on misunderstandings and lets you make decisions much faster.
Sounds like it would decrease the accumulation of errors in the development process. Can I ask what process you were using before?
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Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2009.02.08 22:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Cors
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Stop being mean to Jenny 2.0
*pats Jenny on head*
We'll stop being mean to "her" when "She" stops intentionally miss typeing everything she posts.
It's not cute, it's not attractive, it's there to **** people off.
That character has seen more owners then is right.
There are women working corners in major cities saying "Damn girl, you've been passed around to WAY too many people."
Indeed, while previous Jenny's may have talked utter crap, the current version is just lame. All that miss-spelling is about as funny as cancer.
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Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.02.08 23:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cors
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Stop being mean to Jenny 2.0
*pats Jenny on head*
We'll stop being mean to "her" when "She" stops intentionally miss typeing everything she posts.
It's not cute, it's not attractive, it's there to **** people off.
Well in your case its obviously working
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Gloria Stitz
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Posted - 2009.02.08 23:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Cors
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Stop being mean to Jenny 2.0
*pats Jenny on head*
We'll stop being mean to "her" when "She" stops intentionally miss typeing everything she posts.
It's not cute, it's not attractive, it's there to **** people off.
Well in your case its obviously working
C.
Got to love halfwits with no sense of humour.
Well, we shouldn't be surprised given your corp name. ------------- 'Don't try to learn Eve all at once, otherwise your brain will explode' - Albert Einstein ------------ |
Malthros Zenobia
Cadian Special Operations Command
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Posted - 2009.02.08 23:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Stop being mean to Jenny 2.0
*pats Jenny on head*
Didn't we pass 2.0 some umpteen iterations ago?
Might be, i just use 2.0 to clarify it's not the original
Yes it is.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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