Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
|
CCP Fallout
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 12:20:00 -
[1]
CCP Whisper has published a new dev blog outlining the upcoming status change of our Linux client: chiefly, we will no longer support the client. Please be sure to read the blog to find out all the details, as well as how you can still play EVE on Linux.
Please note: we are not ending support of the Mac client.
Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online
|
|
Ranged Airman
Airman Expedition
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 12:24:00 -
[2]
Thanks for the update, while it is unfortunate for those using linux, it does make sense. So what about the new exploration blog to cancel out the bad news?? :)
|
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 12:28:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Ranged Airman Who cares, where is the real devblog?
At least you pretended to have sympathy.
|
Maria Kalista
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 12:32:00 -
[4]
Originally by: CCP Fallout Please note: we are not ending support of the Mac client, yet .
Fixed that for you
But on a more serious note: sorry to see this happen. Although I can understand why, I cannot understand why at fanfest there was this faulty hope being raised for the people using Linux. By then CCP should had known that the chances of an supported EVE Linux client where, slim at the most.
Originally by: AkRoYeR
...the beauty of EvE. You have to live on the edge all the time. If you don't stay frosty, you will die!
Best game ever!
|
jam6549
Paladines
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 12:36:00 -
[5]
oh well!
|
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 12:39:00 -
[6]
Good run on trying out new software support I hope you guys got plenty of oppertunities to learn and maybe in the future when linux is more popular you can rapidly redevelop the assest nessecary from what you learned here. =============
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
|
Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 12:46:00 -
[7]
Not much of a surprise, really. Kudos to CCP for at least giving it a go but Linux will continue to be largely niche. Those that like to tweak and maximise performance will continue to benefit from it. Those that just want to 'do stuff' with their computer will stick with Windows.
To my mind gaming fits more into the Windows 'I'm a dumb user, just do it' attitude to computing. I think Linux would do better to try and avoid competing too much. Stick to the subset where it's really good. If it competes too much it risks becoming as bloated and 'Jack of all trades' as Windows is. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 12:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: CCP Whisper Killing joy is just one of the many services I provide. I also burst egos, temper enthusiasm, cause motivation to whither, take candy from babies and mess up books on library shelves, all to a mashup soundtrack that combines Morrisey and My Chemical Romance. Children's parties by request. Ask about our special retirement party rates!
CCP Whipser, you are so cruel...
The forums are just about bursting with anticipation and drama about news of T3 ships, skill points losses, Sleepers and so on, and we finally get the long awaited blog, but it is about...Linux.
|
Akor Flandres
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 12:51:00 -
[9]
Good move. |
Anneke Goulet
CUTLASS CORPORATION
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 12:51:00 -
[10]
Sad to see linux directly cut down, then again, if ever have looked at the linux part of forums, you'll see majority of it's users are advertising wine for running Eve.
Hope CCP keeps this in mind and instead making their linux devs to feed birds and clean stairs at office, uses them to ensure there still is reason for linux users to subscribe.
|
|
x psy
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:01:00 -
[11]
LoL Is it just me or it seems you didnt have the technology behind cedega to leave the classic client for the premium? :P
|
armas
Gallente Minbari Research Institute
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:02:00 -
[12]
Never doubted your and Transgamings incompetence for one second. Look how long you were silent towards your Linux community, shameful. And of course you don't see many Linux users as none of us are stupid enough to use your ridiculous official client when we have wine.
|
Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nova Fox ... and maybe in the future when linux is more popular ...
CCP are not saying it was due to a lack of Linux players. Just that the Linux players weren't using the "official" client.
------ Vote for Low graphics client |
Fujiko MaXjolt
Caldari Templar Republic Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: armas Never doubted your and Transgamings incompetence for one second. Look how long you were silent towards your Linux community, shameful. And of course you don't see many Linux users as none of us are stupid enough to use your ridiculous official client when we have wine.
Here, have some cheese with your w(h)ine
|
Sar Ferredj
Orion Federation
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:15:00 -
[15]
Well . . . instead of loosing time and money on a classic linux client (wise invest when almost all linux players do use wine to get the premium client) can we expect you to setup a linux+wine box to test your client and prevent breaking anything ?
Atleast, if we're not worth it for an official client, are there some good 'samaritains' to check linux users won't be screwed at next update/expansion before releasing ? ? ?
|
james126
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:17:00 -
[16]
no shader 1 support, no linix support, what is going to be cut next? and why cant you put them all in one devblog?
|
silken mouth
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:25:00 -
[17]
The small number of people using the cedega client is not related to the fact that there are not many eve players have linux but more to the fact that the cedega client sucks!
i for one hope that your experiences with eve and linux become handy when you switch from DirectX to openGL..
|
citral23
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:34:00 -
[18]
Here's what I replied to the mail I received :
Very sad news. I already dropped the "official" linux client in favor of wine + windows premium version which runs fine.
Your official client sucked so bad, I can understand you stop distributing it. But it looks more like "well,the open source community is already working for us better than we do, why should we spend money on it when whe can have slaves for free" than what you say (concentring on only one version blablabla)
The fact is that at the very beginning, you should have developped this game in opengl, there is nothing it can't do.
I hope for you that the new version will run with wine, cause if not, be prepared to face a lot of people (much more than you can imagine) people quitting the game.
Congrats, you officially belong for me to the already impressive list of bloody moneymaking-only corps.
Have a nice day anyway.
|
Akor Flandres
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: armas Never doubted your and Transgamings incompetence for one second. Look how long you were silent towards your Linux community, shameful. And of course you don't see many Linux users as none of us are stupid enough to use your ridiculous official client when we have wine.
Well maybe if you and more of your self righteous linux brethren had used the linux client and helped them to make it better this wouldn't be happening, you pathetic troll.
|
EliteSlave
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Akor Flandres
Originally by: armas Never doubted your and Transgamings incompetence for one second. Look how long you were silent towards your Linux community, shameful. And of course you don't see many Linux users as none of us are stupid enough to use your ridiculous official client when we have wine.
Well maybe if you and more of your self righteous linux brethren had used the linux client and helped them to make it better this wouldn't be happening, you pathetic troll.
maybe if the linux client could actually view the premium graphs... till then ill use wine.. |
|
x psy
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:46:00 -
[21]
Edited by: x psy on 09/02/2009 13:48:13
Originally by: Akor Flandres
Originally by: armas Never doubted your and Transgamings incompetence for one second. Look how long you were silent towards your Linux community, shameful. And of course you don't see many Linux users as none of us are stupid enough to use your ridiculous official client when we have wine.
Well maybe if you and more of your self righteous linux brethren had used the linux client and helped them to make it better this wouldn't be happening, you pathetic troll.
That would make sense,if they were actually working on it... :P They were just wrapping the classic client with existing cedega technology (and even that was forked from wine).
And more, why anyone that has the option to play the premium content use the official classic one?
For me they just proved that they werent working on a official premium client for linux (they were just waiting for cedega, wow so much testing...) and why they never responded to when the premium content would be delivered.
So basically, you are the troll. |
Triana
Gallente Concordia Shipyards GARDIAN ALLIANCE
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:50:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Triana on 09/02/2009 13:52:55 If people boycott the official linux client and prefer to run under wine why moan about CCP cutting support for official linux client? this is so typical, (putting on flame suit as i speak) point of the matter is linux is not a gaming os as never been and will probably never will (just look at the number of api for sound as an example and now think real hard about why companies prefer to develop for an os where there is not that nonsense of having 500 peoples unable to put their efforts in common to standardize ....... )
Anyway, sad day for the few people than were running official linux client, but on the other hands we can now direct them to the trolls that were advising them to run under wine ......
|
Luke S
Yanacocha
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: citral23 Here's what I replied to the mail I received :
Very sad news. I already dropped the "official" linux client in favor of wine + windows premium version which runs fine.
Your official client sucked so bad, I can understand you stop distributing it. But it looks more like "well,the open source community is already working for us better than we do, why should we spend money on it when whe can have slaves for free" than what you say (concentring on only one version blablabla)
The fact is that at the very beginning, you should have developped this game in opengl, there is nothing it can't do.
I hope for you that the new version will run with wine, cause if not, be prepared to face a lot of people (much more than you can imagine) people quitting the game.
Congrats, you officially belong for me to the already impressive list of bloody moneymaking-only corps.
Have a nice day anyway.
Good god dude. can you be anymore of an ass? |
gfldex
Dark-Rising
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:59:00 -
[24]
Translation of the devblog:
Cedega sucks, go use wine. --
|
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:04:00 -
[25]
Question to CCP Navigator:
Why did you lock This thread ??? It is a day OLDER than this Dev Blog and is in the relevant forum section. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Leuko Uratne
Prison Break Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:05:00 -
[26]
An understandable move, as the official linux client wasn't very good anyway. I would appreciate if you could spend just a little time testing patches on wine though, just to make sure the game is at least somewhat playable on wine after patches.
|
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Fujiko MaXjolt
Originally by: armas Never doubted your and Transgamings incompetence for one second. Look how long you were silent towards your Linux community, shameful. And of course you don't see many Linux users as none of us are stupid enough to use your ridiculous official client when we have wine.
Here, have some cheese with your w(h)ine
actualy he's right. this blog is the first official linux information since last summer. we were promised a linux related dev blog for ages and it seems this is the one that was promised.
I just hope they won't close the Linux forum section. That's the only working Linux support CCP ever had. |
Pivalak
Advanced Capital Ship Designs
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:08:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Triana If people boycott the official linux client and prefer to run under wine why moan about CCP cutting support for official linux client?
Your comment makes me think you, same as many others making similar statements, have never played using the "official" Linux client.
Let me put it straight: the official client has been plagued with bugs and graphical glitches since the beginning (thought it had lately improved), it didn't supported Premium graphics even when they were announced to be available on Q1 2008, and the devs refused to answer any question about Linux on the forums for the past 7 months (until this announcement). Is it then a surprise that people were playing EVE on Linux using other alternative methods that gave better results and support from third parties?
I used the official client during this time hoping it will get better with time, and that finally the so called support will be there one day. But let's face it: it wasn't "people" who did the boycott on the official Linux client... CCP and Transgaming did, unfortunately. |
Luke S
Yanacocha
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:12:00 -
[29]
Now, if you guys used the OFFICIAL client, you would not have this problem. |
Callib Gor'Karrithe
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:13:00 -
[30]
I would have thought the most logical way to go about this from the start would be to work (or encourage said work) on porting EVE to WINE, instead of making a third engine. Were there some sort of crazy problems that seemed to pop up when EVE is run through WINE? (Normally I'd just test this, but I'm at work right now and would be spanked for attempting to install a game in our sand box).
Hugh Ruka... maybe they closed the thread in a hope that it would nip any educated complaints about this in the bud. Especially educated, well backed complaints. That could make someone look bad!! |
|
Pivalak
Advanced Capital Ship Designs
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:14:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Leuko Uratne An understandable move, as the official linux client wasn't very good anyway. I would appreciate if you could spend just a little time testing patches on wine though, just to make sure the game is at least somewhat playable on wine after patches.
This is the kind of constructive outcome I'm looking forward too.
|
kakmonstret
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:37:00 -
[32]
Well it was quite obvious beforehand what was on the way. I honestly believe it is the wrong way to go in many ways and the so call statistics are just BS. In truth CCP did care so little about Linux usage that didn't even bother to really check how many that uses the OS. And all you about using the official client are talking garbage. There really was two options not playing at all or playing with wine the so called official client was not a working alternative.
I think that the official support did get more Linux players into EVE even if they fairly quickly switched over to wine. But there was hope for that one day we would have a official client that worked.
As some others have said please don't remove the Linux part of the forum!
Basically this is a official statement that transgaming can't do what wine has been able to do for a long time now. This has nothing to do with the Linux part of the problem and all to do with that the win32 and directX API:s are undocumented and therefore very hard to implement again.
Lastly don't bring the windows is the only gaming OS garbage into here it has nothing to do with this discussion.
|
WheatGrass
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:43:00 -
[33]
It's too bad that the original thread got locked. Also, it appears that SlashDot has an article up with unfavorable spin. Perhaps before the next major news release some CCP PR person could distribute a press release before hand to various news outlets to prevent CCP fallout from happening. I seems preferable that the SlashDot article not be "CCP To Discontinue EVE Online Support For Linux" but rather, 'CCP Dumps Cedega'. Oh well.
|
Evangeline Vice
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:44:00 -
[34]
where is my possitive and shiny new dev. blog about Apocrypha ?
now serious ,i dont play under linux but from what i understand the client was crap so or so(no offense to the team behing it),better to run under wine...so why dont close one support and open from the team another one (wine+eve) ?
|
Luke S
Yanacocha
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:51:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Luke S on 09/02/2009 14:52:16
Originally by: kakmonstret I honestly believe it is the wrong way to go in many ways and the so call statistics are just BS. In truth CCP did care so little about Linux usage that didn't even bother to really check how many that uses the OS.
The statistics showed that the client that you guys run in wine, was windows. now unless you want CCP to be like Blizzard and take a look at your computer with out you knowing, by all means join WoW.
Quote: And all you about using the official client are talking garbage. There really was two options not playing at all or playing with wine the so called official client was not a working alternative.
STill you should have used it. it was the only way for CCP to know that you are using their client.
Quote: I think that the official support did get more Linux players into EVE even if they fairly quickly switched over to wine. But there was hope for that one day we would have a official client that worked.
More then likely. But since people like to use 3rd party software. why would CCP try to spend the time and money on a program where the community is smart enough to do it themselves, and at a faster rate too.
Quote:
Lastly don't bring the windows is the only gaming OS garbage into here it has nothing to do with this discussion.
your right i'm not going there |
kakmonstret
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:51:00 -
[36]
Edited by: kakmonstret on 09/02/2009 14:58:42 WheatGrass the /. article is not unfortunate spin it's the truth, is it negative? Yes, of course it is there are no more support for EVE in Linux from CCP nill nada null. Now there is absolutely NOTHING that differs EVE from the rest of windows games that run on wine. For us Linux users it could if we are out of luck that after the next update the client wont start at all. While we had support at least we could use official to log on and make skill changes and such things.
Ninja edit to reply to post above:
As there is a wine reg entry in the wine windows registry it would be ok even good if CCP looked for this.
What they should have done was to NOT drop support for Linux but instead find a way to support a client running in wine. Maybe a install script, trying to get the client into Linux package managers with the right dependences or something else.
What more they should have posted in the forum saying plain and simply this is not working any ideas? |
Luteros
Minmatar Corps der Traenen
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:54:00 -
[37]
It seems to be the right decision to scrap the official Linux client because it was inferior to the Win client + Wine solution.
But don't think there are no Linux players! Have an eye on how the client runs with Wine and please don't break it. |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:03:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Evangeline Vice where is my possitive and shiny new dev. blog about Apocrypha ?
now serious ,i dont play under linux but from what i understand the client was crap so or so(no offense to the team behing it),better to run under wine...so why dont close one support and open from the team another one (wine+eve) ?
becasue CCP did never support Linux to begin with. they bought the service from Transgaming. so they can't shift support as that would actualy need a dev to work on this. |
Dracira Dracc
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:22:00 -
[39]
can we get the numbers? How many are using the mac client? The growth over the last 6 Month? Or are the numbers a secret?
|
Katana Seiko
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:37:00 -
[40]
Why should CCP support native Linux Support? With Wine (and a few other adds), the original client (even the premium one) runs on Linux allmost as smooth as it runs on Windows. The linux support is not necessary (and never really was)... |
|
|
CCP Fallout
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:52:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka Question to CCP Navigator:
Why did you lock This thread ??? It is a day OLDER than this Dev Blog and is in the relevant forum section.
Typically, it's against the rules to comment on moderator actions, but in this case I'd like to offer an explanation. Now that we have the blog out, we're focusing all forum postings into this official thread. This will make it easier for Whisper and others to better follow any Linux-related commentary.
Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online
|
|
Illectroculus Defined
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:16:00 -
[42]
As someone who's spent many years developing bits of linux I can't help but be saddened by this decision, however I've also been frustrated by the fact that the official client never compared favourably to the Windows client on Wine.
So, if you can just set your QA people up with a Linux + Wine + Eve machine or two that would really buy you back more karma than you've lost by this cancellation.
|
Jat Friesch
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:30:00 -
[43]
I don't really care about the "official" Linux client. It caused problems like this: http://www.exaile.org/eveissues.png. I asked on the forum, and someone immediately told me that using Wine fixed problems like that.
If I had known that switching to using just plain Wine would throw off statistics and make it so that CCP thought no one used Linux, I would have kept using the broken client.
What I'm really afraid of is that we'll be ignored now. Just like Blizzard ignores WoW players that use Linux. |
Ravow
Minmatar Born-to-Kill Aeon Empire
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:41:00 -
[44]
For the Linux users count, it is very flawed as I never get a successful login with the Cedegatized client :(
The wine+eve worked flawless with my ATI card in Classic mode and can be used with premium too if I don't have the choice (Invisible ship but I always see ship square and overview)
Will pray for a working client with wine + premium lite.... |
Syekuda
Caldari Titanium Guard
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:42:00 -
[45]
I feel that CCP tried to support the linux side of Eve the lazy way. Nothing wrong with it but looks like its not the best way in CCP's case. This led to numerous bugs and such. For example, my freaking crash bug that I can't fix on linux (2 distro's same thing) that looks like a lack of hardware issue and the ati support (which is not good) that is not really the best.
In short, looks like the open source version (wine is one) is the best solution for now. I wish that a linux guru nerd like dev can work for CCP to release an official client that CCP WORKED FOR.
in other words, let go of cedega for gawd's sake. Other than that, good try ccp but still not enough.
p.s:
Bill Gates : 1 Linus Torvald: 0 |
Nikumo Nikado
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:50:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Syekuda
p.s:
Bill Gates : 1 Linus Torvald: 0
Err, that should be:
Bill Gates: -1 (for not working with software written for other OSes and being such a PITA for software written for this OS to work well with others) Linus Torvalds: +1 (for working well with software written for other OS-es WITHOUT official support from the software developer)
Gates-jab aside, the wine-based eve works well - please just don't put anything in the windoze client that might break this, casually and without thought.
I think it might be better for just ONE EVE developer to play using the wine client and try to make things better for those that use wine+eve.
|
Jat Friesch
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:52:00 -
[47]
Oh, just some other things to think about:
This is what happened to me:
1. Downloaded official Linux client (I assume this is the part that put me on the official linux client list to get the email saying linux support was going to be dropped)
2. Found that it didn't work very well. I looked around on the forums, and didn't find a whole lot that matched my exact problem
3. File a petition, with the screenshot: http://www.exaile.org/eveissues.png
4. Kept searching forums. Found that EVE runs better in Wine.
5. Installed EVE with Wine. It runs perfectly, so I keep doing that.
6. Get a response to my petition. It basically asks details about my system, which distribution, that sort of thing.
7. I, like an idiot, ignore this email, because at this point, I figure it's fixed.
Linux users are used to have to going things on their own a little bit.
HOWEVER, it is obvious that CCP is at least actually reading these forum posts. Here's the problem with that, though:
Players that never downloaded the official client would have not been on the mailing list to get the email about Linux support being dropped. They probably don't even know, so they can't add to our numbers in these forum posts. |
Karak Terrel
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:52:00 -
[48]
This is does not realy supprices me. Just take a look at the Linux Forums. Most of the Linux users never understud why CCP was still "supporting" Eve through cedega/transgaming. I Think there are better ways to bring games to the Linux platform. Linux is all about community especially when it comes to games. Just support their efforts to keep the wine solution working:
- Talk to the community if you changed something that may have an impact on wine. If people know what and when to test on singularity they will do. - Try to help out with additional Information on the wine Bugzilla if they try to fix a Bug - Guide players that want to play Eve on Linux to the right communities
Maybe you already did that, i don't know. At least you never talked about it.
It may also be helpful if you allow the community to repack your client, so they can bundle it with the distributions (you know, in religion-free-repos). Something similar to the official client (but working, yarr). This is for easy installation. Is this possible from a copyright/trademark/.. point of view?
And thx for this awesome game. Always dreamed of a game like this, years ago when i was alone in my ship out there in the gemini sector.. |
Kendrix Arathan
Minmatar N00bs With Guns
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 17:22:00 -
[49]
I agree with what seems to be the majority opinion.
Sad to see support "officially" dropped, understanding of the reasons, and in no way worried about my ability to play EVE under linux.
It was a noble effort, that i applaud, to try and span the 3 biggest OS platforms. But the strain of trying to program for that variety was i think evidenced by the quality of the linux client.
As others have said, any reasonable effort to try and help wine compatibility would be greatly appreciated.
Originally by: Akor Flandres Well maybe if you and more of your self righteous linux brethren had used the linux client and helped them to make it better this wouldn't be happening, you pathetic troll.
Seriously, did the bully at your school wear a linux T-shirt or what? |
Casiella Truza
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 17:39:00 -
[50]
I just bought a Linux laptop (arriving Wednesday), chosen in part for its ability to play EVE.
While I totally understand the business decision here, maybe they could contribute to Wine financially so that we can continue to have this option? --
IC Twitter |
|
CursedEagle79
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 18:55:00 -
[51]
I personally use a dual-boot computer, Windows and Linux. I always had trouble with the Cedega client, and thus switched to using Wine. It's buggy, but I have Windows as well (actually, EVE is just about the only reason I still have windows). Some better porting/working with Wine would be much appreciated, if possible.
|
Blaster Fairy
Caldari Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 19:32:00 -
[52]
Again GNU/Linux users got their hands bended but that's the price we're paying for our freedom. Of course we'll find a solution somehow. The problem is that I'm playing EVE for almost an year and if I knew somehow that this support will end I wouldn't star playing. Anyway I'll probably quit EVE instead of booting under Windows - that is not the way to constrain people which OS should they use using their affinity to a certain product against them. |
Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 19:44:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Nikumo Nikado Bill Gates: -1 (for not working with software written for other OSes and being such a PITA for software written for this OS to work well with others)
Windows was there first - at least in anything resembling significant take-up. Linux developers chose to enter the desktop arena that Microsoft/Windows had created. If compatibility was a requirement then Linux should have followed Windows.
Thankfully Windows compatibility wasn't a requirement and Linux benefitted from being able to go its own way. |
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 19:55:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Ix Forres on 09/02/2009 19:55:55 I've stated this on the other thread- I'm disappointed, but hope that CCP will at least consider spending some time with EVE and Wine, helping the Wine community to help them.
I've also started up a blog/guide website, EVEaholic (available at http://eveaholic.mmmetrics.co.uk/), which is dedicated to helping people getting up and running with EVE under Wine. If you're a Linux EVE player and would like to contribute, let me know ingame or on IRC (#eveaholic irc.coldfront.net)- I'm not a full-time EVE Linux user, so help would be appreciated in writing guides for the site. I felt that if CCP would not support Linux users, the community could at least play a part in helping Linux users play EVE, and that a central source of information that has been checked and written properly was severely lacking. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Blaster Fairy
Caldari Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 20:00:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Blaster Fairy on 09/02/2009 20:03:06 In reply to Andrue:
Windows was better indeed, but now the time has come for OS X and Gnu/Linux. We're talking about choice here. Windows doesn't give you this (you might think you have it but you're wrong). I remember that there was a great commercial about this. If you search youtube for keywords: Red Hat Linux 3 and watch the first video.
Well... I'm done with this discussion. I'm sure that we cannot change anything as we don't have enough numbers to match Windows users. I just want to appeal to all GNU/Linux EVE players - please quit playing EVE if the game stops to run over WINE - don't give your money to switch to Windows
|
Shadow Lightbringer
Viziam
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 20:25:00 -
[56]
I received the email Sunday morning and my first reaction was, "Damn CCP, it's about time you dumped Cedega for Linux". The gripes about it hae already been posted in this thread, and users were justifiably upset about the lack of support and development.
But at the same time, I have to suspect that CCP couldn't help but watch the Linux forum, see their customers having a better experience through Wine, and wonder to themselves, "Why are we paying Cedega for a Linux client again?". I for one am happy that CCP has finally stuck a fork in the official client so they can spend the money on other things. I just hope they keep the Linux forum open because it is a great resource for those of us who run EVE under Wine.
|
Ravow
Minmatar Born-to-Kill Aeon Empire
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 20:29:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Ravow on 09/02/2009 20:30:23 The Linux count thread have reached 161 clients:
161*14.95 = 2406 USD / month
What is the cost for a full time Wine developer/debugger ?
Or part time... Just to ensure that patch will not break the thing...
|
AleRiperKilt
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 21:27:00 -
[58]
Edited by: AleRiperKilt on 09/02/2009 21:34:46 I agree with CCP's decision to drop the cedega-based client but totally disagree with dropping support for a Linux client.
I would have NEVER tried this game without an officially supported linux client (why pay for some service with no chance of support?).
I knew I could run it with wine for years. Several times came across this website (usually from slashdot article) and said "cool, internet spaceships". Went to download section and saw no linux client so I left.
Never bothered to try Eve until the Linux client came out (btw this is the first and only MMORPG I have EVER played)
Now I am hooked to this game, have 3 accounts and intend to keep playing it. By dropping the linux client you are cutting out any chance for linux users that think like me from becoming customers.
All you need is a QA guy run some tests in the client under wine before you release it. If something doesn't work ask the wine devs and they will surprise you (I know one of them that plays this game and has submitted patches when your devs screw something out)
|
Sevarus James
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 21:58:00 -
[59]
Personally I'm glad that CCP is ending the cedega client. For the last several months under a LOT of "supported" hardware, it has been an utter disaster (confirmed by CCP at fanfest as such, although the word there was that the new beta stuff rocked.)
As long as we linux users can have our little dungeon at the bottom of the forums to help each other out, and even provide some feedback to CCP regarding performance and such via wine we'll be just fine.
It has been mentioned by CCP elsewhere that they would continue as best they could to provide "smoke tests" for upcoming releases, and this is more information and more promising than what they have talked about for quite some time.
The mail sent also shows that they DO have at least some clue because they give instruction for multiple ways to run EVE under linux.
I've been supporting folks in the linux forums for quite some time, and supported the official client for as long as it was a viable solution, but even I had to dump the thing after several bug reports that WERE information rich with screenshots, descriptions and logs were filtered with "not enough information" as the filter reason.
The other thing we have to remember is that CCP never DID provide a "linux" client. The underlying game below Transgaming's "wrapper" was still dx9 and windows.
At least the wrapper most of us use now is efficient enough to play the game properly. Let us hope that this continues.
Also, please be aware the Crossover Games lists EVE-Online as OFFICIALLY supported on their website, which means they dedicate the time and effort to ensuring the game works under the crossover-wine application.
It would be nice if CCP could at least keep them/us in the loop a bit as to upcoming changes and stuff so WE could ensure the game continues to work.
EVE is just an engine to allow us access to a virtual world. Please don't lock us out.
Updated Ubuntu Compiz-Linux Desktop+EVE Premium |
Jat Friesch
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:32:00 -
[60]
@Sevarus James
Well said. I hope you're right.
|
|
Persephone 66
Gallente JinTech Industries
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:38:00 -
[61]
At least on my laptop, the linux client ran pretty decent. It looked better than classic eve on my windows desktop, but I attribute that to the better graphics card in the laptop.
I'm quite displeased to see the linux client go. I have installed the premium windows client on wine and after some jacking around with it, got it to work.
Would it be too much to ask for official support under wine? |
wapacz
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:04:00 -
[62]
Edited by: wapacz on 09/02/2009 23:06:38 I never got the official client to work. After a bit of searching I found out that it was because I am running a dual head setup with a nvidia card, which apparently stopped working for people a few versions of cedega ago. My only options to fix the problem were to reset to one monitor every time I wanted to play, go hack the x conf file to add in false resolution or just say screw it and us my laptop that has windows. Well the resetting to one monitor ever time was out and didn't really fell like playing with the conf files as I usually end up breaking something, if I don't fully understand what I am doing. This left me with only the 3rd option of playing eve on my laptop.
|
Miraqu
Caldari Marquie-X Corp
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:15:00 -
[63]
Overall I think its a good move to stop putting money into something that never really worked.
Originally by: Karak Terrel
It may also be helpful if you allow the community to repack your client, so they can bundle it with the distributions (you know, in religion-free-repos). Something similar to the official client (but working, yarr). This is for easy installation. Is this possible from a copyright/trademark/.. point of view?
apt-get install eve-online *Dreaming*
I think almost everything was already mentioned, keep the linux forum and please avoid breaking wine compatibility |
Illwill Bill
Svea Rike INTERDICTION
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:16:00 -
[64]
It's sad to see support dropped, though I'm sure that most of us Linux users are running on Wine instead.
As others have stated previously: Testing the client on Wine before release is probably a better move anyway. |
Draco Argen
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:43:00 -
[65]
I've been posting everywhere but here. Since this has been designated as the Eye of CCP's focus i will throw my to penneth on here. CCP, you really hurt me by this move. But I think I understand the ultimate true direction, and will hold my breath. I'd just become very exited over Apocrypha and the alliance tourney then this hit me. You cant come to the party like message. (Also was very geeked out by your adoption of Agile Scrum and keen to observe the benefits, being a small Software company owner myself. I've also an inclining that Linux on Cider was a "Blocker" which has been "resolved", but its far from a kind way of treating us)
I WAS a Cider user (Supporting the official attempt), and have now switched, since it's not long for this world, and am reaping the benefits of a massive increase in FPS and also the availability of premium contend (admittedly no shadows or HDC, but I don't much care) with wine from source.
BIG POINT Who has downloaded and tried Apocrypha on SISI, the test server is up and the Wine premium client is asking me if i want to download 1 gig of patch, which I cant til tonight, but I live in the sticks, with wet string for bandwidth. So!? does it work for anyone???
Also I will personally be joining Ix Forres http://eveaholic.mmmetrics.co.uk/author/ix-forres/ (when i speak to him) in offering community guides and my personal area of expertise Fedora (and possibly .DEB) packages, possibly AutoPackage, if I can be arsed.
You can consider any other irate posts I've tentatively put out about mass demonstrations void if SISI proves to have only minor or short term issues. I might hug you if there are equal (ie low) issues compared to Quantum Rise.
-Draco Argen
|
Sevarus James
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 00:04:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Draco Argen BIG POINT[/u [/b] Who has downloaded and tried Apocrypha on SISI, the test server is up and the Wine premium client is asking me if i want to download 1 gig of patch, which I cant til tonight, but I live in the sticks, with wet string for bandwidth. So!? does it work for anyone??? consider any other irate posts I've tentatively put out about mass demonstrations void if SISI proves to have only minor or short term issues. I might hug you if there are equal (ie low) issues compared to Quantum Rise.
-Draco Argen
I JUST started this thread in the linux section, and YES with wine 1.1.14 + ubuntu 8.10+ nvidia 8800gts + 188.27 pre-release nvidia drivers it IS working. glitched up, but similar glitches that windows users are reporting.
SISI + Wine reporting
Hopefully we can stay on top of this and provide feedback to each other, ccp and wine devs to keep playing.
|
Scifi
Caldari REUNI0N Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 01:06:00 -
[67]
Reiterating from my post in the linux forum: Can't say I'm surprised. Very few people had anything good to say about the official client. I tried it myself and wasn't impressed, wine worked MUCH better(usually...). As long as we've still got *some* Dev love for us poor heathen wine users I'll be happy.
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 01:10:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Ranged Airman Thanks for the update, while it is unfortunate for those using linux, it does make sense. So what about the new exploration blog to cancel out the bad news?? :)
and the NPC dev blog and the graphics dev blog and the other wormhole dev blog and the new NPC dev blog and the NPE dev blog and the epic missions dev blog and the... should I go on?
|
Draco Argen
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 02:15:00 -
[69]
0/ Sevar, appreciated.
|
Daquaris
Caldari Novus Aevum Transport and Industries Novus Aevum
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 03:30:00 -
[70]
I'm disappointed, as I would have never subbed to EVE without easy linux support (literally -- the TV commercial mentioned it, and I would NEVER have checked it out otherwise). I despise fiddling with wine.
Now, I don't use soley linux anymore, I've got a windows machine, and a linux machine. Premium runs much better native windows, so, tbfh, that's what I use.
I saw some above mentioning .DEB's and whatnot, and that would be freakin awesome!
EVE was one of the better games that was officially supported under linux, it's disappointing to see the company abandon that support. |
|
Gidgiddonah
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 03:50:00 -
[71]
Agree w/ Daquaris ^ above
Back when a friend of mine showed me Eve, I figured I'd never be able to play it because I haven't had much luck with games under Wine before. But lo and behold! then I saw there was a Linux client! It installed and worked right off the bat. There were some occasional strange issues, but nothing that actually prevented me from playing and enjoying the game.
If you want to keep recruiting Linux folks, advertise Wine compatibility. Simply showing that you have a Linux awareness and compatibility is enough to get most Linux users interested, and puts you head-n-shoulders above other game developers. |
Odhinn Vinlandii
Equilibrium Inc. FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 04:00:00 -
[72]
The official linux client is absolute horrid ****. Good riddance!
Linux users never used it, we use WINE.
EVE under WINE has more support, faster bug resolution, plus premium graphics.
Another example that an open altruistic community is far superior to paid services. |
Daquaris
Caldari Novus Aevum Transport and Industries Novus Aevum
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 06:19:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Daquaris on 10/02/2009 06:18:54
Originally by: Odhinn Vinlandii The official linux client is absolute horrid ****. Good riddance!
Linux users never used it, we use WINE.
EVE under WINE has more support, faster bug resolution, plus premium graphics.
Another example that an open altruistic community is far superior to paid services.
Longtime Debian Sid user here, I used it.
I was OK with it (TBH I haven't used it since QR came out tho). Did take a minor tweak to get the sound going, but, all in all not so bad.
I did try WINE. And, had many a problem. Was more work than I cared to endure (at least, in my case, I am lazy!). Not sure why either, since cedaga is *basically* wine too.
If I wanted to use one of the two, from my linux box right this second, it would without question be the official client.
|
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 07:02:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Sevarus James Personally I'm glad that CCP is ending the cedega client. For the last several months under a LOT of "supported" hardware, it has been an utter disaster (confirmed by CCP at fanfest as such, although the word there was that the new beta stuff rocked.)
As long as we linux users can have our little dungeon at the bottom of the forums to help each other out, and even provide some feedback to CCP regarding performance and such via wine we'll be just fine.
It has been mentioned by CCP elsewhere that they would continue as best they could to provide "smoke tests" for upcoming releases, and this is more information and more promising than what they have talked about for quite some time.
The mail sent also shows that they DO have at least some clue because they give instruction for multiple ways to run EVE under linux.
I've been supporting folks in the linux forums for quite some time, and supported the official client for as long as it was a viable solution, but even I had to dump the thing after several bug reports that WERE information rich with screenshots, descriptions and logs were filtered with "not enough information" as the filter reason.
The other thing we have to remember is that CCP never DID provide a "linux" client. The underlying game below Transgaming's "wrapper" was still dx9 and windows.
At least the wrapper most of us use now is efficient enough to play the game properly. Let us hope that this continues.
Also, please be aware the Crossover Games lists EVE-Online as OFFICIALLY supported on their website, which means they dedicate the time and effort to ensuring the game works under the crossover-wine application.
It would be nice if CCP could at least keep them/us in the loop a bit as to upcoming changes and stuff so WE could ensure the game continues to work.
EVE is just an engine to allow us access to a virtual world. Please don't lock us out.
pretty much sums up the experience :-)
CCP, can you maybe make a deal with Crossover Games and see if that works better ? |
Paulo Banderez
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 09:19:00 -
[75]
oh no! That's regrettable but I understand its for the good of the future development.
I had been trying to get the Linux client working on RHEL5 but with no luck.
Maybe I'll have to buy a Mac. |
Adel Sorra
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 10:16:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Leuko Uratne An understandable move, as the official linux client wasn't very good anyway. I would appreciate if you could spend just a little time testing patches on wine though, just to make sure the game is at least somewhat playable on wine after patches.
Originally by: Hugh Ruka I just hope they won't close the Linux forum section.
Originally by: Luteros It seems to be the right decision to scrap the official Linux client because it was inferior to the Win client + Wine solution.
But don't think there are no Linux players! Have an eye on how the client runs with Wine and please don't break it.
Originally by: Illectroculus Defined So, if you can just set your QA people up with a Linux + Wine + Eve machine or two that would really buy you back more karma than you've lost by this cancellation.
Originally by: Casiella Truza While I totally understand the business decision here, maybe they could contribute to Wine financially so that we can continue to have this option?
Originally by: Scifi As long as we've still got *some* Dev love for us poor heathen wine users I'll be happy.
Originally by: Gidgiddonah If you want to keep recruiting Linux folks, advertise Wine compatibility. Simply showing that you have a Linux awareness and compatibility is enough to get most Linux users interested, and puts you head-n-shoulders above other game developers.
/signed
i think the message here is clear. i would love to hear from ccp what they think
of course, it makes sense for ccp not to PROMISE to help wine. imagine they did, and on some update, the wine-folks weren't ready yet. you know what the forums would look like if people think ccp broke their promise..
but, as it was said before, showing some good intention will be inoff for most people to take ccp serious again, and close this.. unpleasant chapter.
Originally by: Miraqu apt-get install eve-online *Dreaming*
to be honest, eve-packages only would make sense if the updating process could be taken care of as well, scince if it isnt, you can only install in unusual ways (home dir or write access on /usr..) seems simpler to just use wine as intended.
|
Nephtali Zebulon
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 10:24:00 -
[77]
Allright folks !
I think all have been already said during this last two days. So I'll try to sump up the facts and the situation :
The Important Facts :
- EVE is the best game ever. - Crossplatform with strong standards such as OpenGL and Python is the way to the future. - The official-to-dissapear Linux Client sucks hard compared to others solutions to run EVE under Linux. But, it was official, we knew we got some promises from CCP who really used to take care of its customers. So we trusted - Very fews of Linux users would accept to get back on Windows to play EVE. Just because they put more interest in their OS than in their favourite game. So they may consider stop playing if there is no way to run EVE properly with Wine in the future (due to DX features for example) - Working with Cedega worried us, but we trusted CCP.
So, what's on after this decision ?
THE BAD THING : - It is really a bad advertisement that you are making for Linux guys ! - All the people (as I) who used to run the official client will have to make sure they can run EVE with Wine. As someone said, the field of troubles encoutered is quite broad. But it can be done with the proper hardware.
THE GOOD THING : - It has been a long time since CCP really communicated with its Linux users. Let's hope they 'll continue to do so. - Wine, an open source project, is proving its obvious superiority and core solidity. We all thought it was crappy to try working with Transgaming. - It's time for you CCP, to put some devs over here : http://winehq.org if you really 'd like to do what you have been doing in the past (except this last year in this section on the forum). Giving satisfaction to your customers.
Come one CCP, it's time to take your future by the horns ! And maybe time to announce that you officialy support the Wine project and take Wine users in consideration when developping features.
Regards.
Nephtali Zebulon
|
mrkaczor
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 11:17:00 -
[78]
Edited by: mrkaczor on 10/02/2009 11:17:10
Originally by: Nephtali Zebulon
It's time for you CCP, to put some devs over here : http://winehq.org if you really 'd like to do what you have been doing in the past (except this last year in this section on the forum). Giving satisfaction to your customers.
That's so true, there are like 200 wine users or probably even more (look at the thread here). It would be nice to see 1-2 devs from CCP that contribute to Wine project to keep EVE running with wine - you can also create config for PlayOnLinux or sth.
200 users gives you much more profit then 1-2 programmers that would 1/2 they time would care for wine compatibility (best way is to contribute some code to wine that would be good sign). Creating wine based client would also be very simple - lest face it - Cedega sux :).
And then info - CCP don't have EVE linux client but we are in 100% contact with wine community, here are the config files and windows client with wine to run it on linux.
PS. I've started playing EVE because of linux support also ... :/
|
Sevarus James
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 11:41:00 -
[79]
Also something to keep in mind when looking at numbers...actual users will always be a pretty big factor LARGER than forum users. That has always been a statistical fact, and even though wine/linux gamers tend to lean toward forum usage for support "More"...I know several folks who NEVER look at forums including gaming ones. The "tl:dr" factor is a big reason. They just want to play, not surf forums.
When I ran Meridian Dynamics as an example. We were a VERY active 0.0 based corporation for 2+ years, had 40-60 full time active participants...and out of 100+ accounts in corp, we had MAYBE 2-3 (including myself) active on the forums. This is atypical. (this included 6 corp mates who were linux/wine users.)
CCP needs to look at the reg key that has been mentioned to determine usage of platform. We're out here. |
WillageGirl
Advanced Tactics and Maneuvers
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 11:54:00 -
[80]
Linux client newer got popular because it was all around inferior to Windows counterpart. If it had even close to same stability and performance as windows client I KNOW for a fact that a lot more people would be using it instead of Windows client.
Sad to see a good thing washed away jsut becose there's no will to do it properly.
Fighting for Our right to Cloak since 2004 |
|
mrkaczor
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 12:02:00 -
[81]
Look at the posts number of linux and mac forum ... they are nearly equal ... 805 to 798. That simple estimation shows that linux community is nearly the same in numbers as mac users. Are there relay some checks of ppl using wine to play on linux made by CCP? |
Bish Ounen
Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 13:37:00 -
[82]
Originally by: mrkaczor Look at the posts number of linux and mac forum ... they are nearly equal ... 805 to 798. That simple estimation shows that linux community is nearly the same in numbers as mac users. Are there relay some checks of ppl using wine to play on linux made by CCP?
No. that's part of the problem. CCP collects NO metrics on Wine vs Windows. All they collect info on are the connections from the "official' clients. Thus Wine users show up as Windows users since they are using the Windows client under Wine.
Ironically, it wouldn't be THAT hard to check if a user was using Wine or Windows. just check for the presence of the Wine Registry Key on client start. On Windows machines it won't be there, or Vista will block the check. So if you get get a null response on that check, you know it's a Win box. On Wine it will be there in the Wine fake registry. If they put that simple check into the Windows client they could get accurate metrics on Wine vs Windows use and get a real feel for how large the Linux community is.
Frankly, I'm not surprised by this move at all. The official client was absolute dreck and worked for almost nobody. Most of the people that tried it would come to the forums and be advised to swap to Wine and the Win client, which they would then do. Since CCP basically NEVER reads or comments on the Linux forums, I can only assume that their metrics then told them that they had no Linux users. This is, of course, patently false, but since their metrics are faulty and they NEVER even look at the Linux forums it's not incredibly surprising that things would end up as they are now. |
mrkaczor
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 13:57:00 -
[83]
Hope they will look here and read all comments/ideas/thoughts that EVE linux community have. Registry key check is very nice idea indeed.
|
Lan Staz
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 15:30:00 -
[84]
Also, please do something on the "Eve Client" page for Linux users. Keep the existing button, just have it link to a page saying "use the Windows client with wine" and a link to the EVElopedia article giving details; maybe also a link to the Linux forums here so people can get help.
Linux users don't expect things handed to them on a plate; they know all about community support and wine. What they *do* like is acknowledgement that they exist, and that little button on the Eve Client page shows that you care (at least in proportion to the number of users).
This will probably make the difference between potential Linux Eve users giving it a try or just moving on to check out the next game.
|
Genya Arikaido
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 16:01:00 -
[85]
CCP, this is pretty simple.
1. Good move. The Linux client sucked. 2. Most of us use the win32 client on WINE, not cedega. 3. Why? Why would we want to use a gimped client with no premium graphics when we can have our cake and eat it too on wine?
So, why not support Linux over wine? I'm sure if you did, you'd see the same usage curve as you did from the Mac client.
|
Adel Sorra
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 16:34:00 -
[86]
one more thing about detecting wine users.
any of you ever taken a steam hardware survey? it shows the soundcard as "wine something". i read this is _always_ the case. also, you can look in the registry and see if there are wine entries.
what i mean is there are probably dozends of ways to detect if one is using windows or wine. i would be surprised if they didn't already do it. then again, why are they so shortspoken..
|
Adel Sorra
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 16:41:00 -
[87]
there are probably dozends of ways to detect if one is using windows or wine (take a steam hardware survey and see what the soundcard is called). i would be surprised if they didn't already do it. then again, why are they so shortspoken..
|
Nephtali Zebulon
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 17:44:00 -
[88]
Originally by: mrkaczor Edited by: mrkaczor on 10/02/2009 11:17:10 PS. I've started playing EVE because of linux support also ... :/
Same thing for me.
|
Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 18:44:00 -
[89]
Thanks for a good blog.
It was good because although it was not a nice message to bring, you were transparent in the reasoning behind it, the reasoning behind it was sound (growth in usage, complexity of maintenance, better allocation of staff), and you gave people a month to work out how to deal with it.
Not a happy thing for Linux, but a definite improvement in communication. |
Havus Mauth
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 20:57:00 -
[90]
You're continuing to develop the Transgaming tech for the Mac client yet peridoically testing the exact same thing out on a Linux system is too much effort? Thats such poppy****. Shame on you, this had to be like a dozen man hours a month.
|
|
Casiella Truza
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 21:05:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Havus Mauth You're continuing to develop the Transgaming tech for the Mac client yet peridoically testing the exact same thing out on a Linux system is too much effort? Thats such poppy****. Shame on you, this had to be like a dozen man hours a month.
Since Cider and Cedega are different, and QA takes way more than three hours a week to test something this complex, I'm going have to go head and just say you're wrong.
I'll re-iterate my hope that, at a minimum, CCP can choose to at least support the Wine project financially and continue to code for correctness (i.e. to standards). |
Sevarus James
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 23:50:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Sevarus James on 10/02/2009 23:51:02 Edited by: Sevarus James on 10/02/2009 23:50:30
Originally by: Serenity Steele Thanks for a good blog.
It was good because although it was not a nice message to bring, you were transparent in the reasoning behind it, the reasoning behind it was sound (growth in usage, complexity of maintenance, better allocation of staff), and you gave people a month to work out how to deal with it.
Not a happy thing for Linux, but a definite improvement in communication.
This would have been fine, save for the fact that for the last 8 months CCP has said NOTHING to the linux community in the forums or elsewhere. Not a thing. At FANFEST they talked up the LINUX/MAC PREMIUM beta, admitted the problems that transgaming was having, and yet....not a hint of this situation.
As has been indicated, they are using bad metrics to gauge the linux users. (notice I said LINUX users, not "official client" users. If they had, they would have had metrics to get feedback from us as to WHY THE HELL we weren't using the official client.
Of course if they had just followed the threads in the linux section closely or even not so closely they would have seen that the official client was junk.
We in the linux community are back to where we were prior to this 'cedega deal' with Transgaming. As wine currently runs EVE very well, the only thing we can hope for is that they leave us our forum section to continue to support each other.
Current testing shows that the apocrapha build on sisi works under wine with glitches, so this major change coming may not even have a bad effect on the linux users. As wine updates come every 2 weeks fixing and improving things at a torrential pace, I'm not concerned by CCP's move.
I am also not really concerned that much about the lack of communications up to this point. Having been here since the opening bell, I've seen CCP selectively communicate, so this is nothing new. (I made a post in the linux section a couple weeks ago that predicted this move as a matter o' fact, and I was pretty much spot on the money.)
|
Draco Argen
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 03:09:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Serenity Steele Thanks for a good blog.
It was good because although it was not a nice message to bring, you were transparent in the reasoning behind it, the reasoning behind it was sound (growth in usage, complexity of maintenance, better allocation of staff), and you gave people a month to work out how to deal with it.
Not a happy thing for Linux, but a definite improvement in communication.
It is an improvement in communication, from zero admittedly, but i'm not going to pelt the guy with tomato's because he spoke up. CCP staff appear to be very, very tentative and cautious towards these forums and the Linux community. A bit of frankness goes a long way. Anyway side point.
What I was quoting about was the slight glitch in the "1 month to sort it out". Unfortunately the termination hits Apocrypha, which means as our support stops, wine gets the biggest patch smooshed into it that eve has had, ever. (1 gig SISI patch is a hellofa thing). Fortunately we've got a glimpse onto SISI, which gives the Wine team and us as players a chance to view/test something. Albeit a very hodge podge demo of Apoc. For those that haven't followed other threads, wine is having mixed success on SISI with Apoc. SISi has gone down again this eve and probably being upgraded from the mass of testing data they will have gathered. I didn't even get to undock personally lol, but the skill que looks perfect. All i can suggest is update your GFX drivers (New stuff being required in Apoc for GFX i think), update wine. Give it a try.
Also, as harsh as the comments they gave about the usage of the official client sounds, and as much as it sounds like "linux is a minority naff off"; It's been pointed out several times by CCP staff that they "chose their words carefully". They know there are lots of us. Not exactly how many, I bet, but they aren't going to make anything special for wine :( At least not publicly. They have killed the Trans G client we hated. (although i personally didn't). I think we can stop harping on about their detection methods. Their stats told them to kill Cedega for linux. So they did. They dont appear to be interested in whos using wine, because were not using anything special on it that they need to change.
Just sucks that instead of saying "Were moving forward. Gonna let you try wine. Abandoning the Cider version. Hope it works. Will try our best to keep it working for you, but we might break it occasionally" they've given us a break up letter, after some false hope and lots of silence.
Wine offers the potential of one codebase, given a careful dev touch. But would have been nice to have a teeny bit of QA testing done by CCP. Costly as it is. To at leasts give a heads up for wine team. It's throwing a large number of user accounts (as were quickly establishing) into the hands of some complete strangers to CCP (ie wine dev team).
In future I hope to set up community leason with CCP to give us some channels to discuss things. I know wine has outdone Trans G, and has screwed the uptake of the official client. And that wine isn't really a reliable entity that CCP can contractually bind to. But a bit of chatter or heads up that the new patch X uses super funky DX option Y and will screw wine in all probability, would be fantastic.
Sorry for trolling about this peeps. Lot of passion behind this one :P
|
Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 11:29:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Draco Argen ... wine gets the biggest patch smooshed into it that eve has had, ever. (1 gig SISI patch is a hellofa thing).
Off topic comment: I'm feeling that CCP is getting large amounts coding done at the moment. I was woken up by the speed they achieved the performance fixes in Quantum Rise. These went a long way to fixing some very old client side issues. Whoever did that work is truly a hero imho.
Quote: I know wine has outdone Trans G, and has screwed the uptake of the official client. And that wine isn't really a reliable entity that CCP can contractually bind to.
Codeweavers is commercial. So, it's not an impossible situation for CCP.
------ Vote for Low graphics client |
Glen Morange
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 17:26:00 -
[95]
Originally by: CCP Fallout CCP Whisper has published a new dev blog outlining the upcoming status change of our Linux client: chiefly, we will no longer support the client. Please be sure to read the blog to find out all the details, as well as how you can still play EVE on Linux.
Please note: we are not ending support of the Mac client.
Just as a sanity check, (which is implied by the suggestion of wine) CCP will not be brushing off GM tickets or issue reports (my Drake was just hit by a rocket for 3 billion damage, this might need some looking into) just because of the use of wine? Or worse yet, account bannings due to running "unapproved software" or some such.
Will CCP be informally testing with wine (one guy, over lunch, making sure nothing horrible happens)? I don't really worry about the intense performance testing that the windows builds get, but it is nice to know that someone is glancing at the Linux side.
|
Baeryn
Caldari Corporate Sin
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 20:48:00 -
[96]
While I don't use the official Linux client for EVE (I play using the Windows version), I must say that CCP continues to disappoint me on this venture.
The official developers of Wine would be more than happy to assign someone to make sure EVE's binaries work natively within Wine (NOT using Cedega). It would be trivial to associate work hours with this project and crush the bugs in the Windows version of EVE Online, for the betterment of all players. Role Playing Games by RolePlayGateway |
Norden Kor
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 21:45:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Havus Mauth You're continuing to develop the Transgaming tech for the Mac client yet peridoically testing the exact same thing out on a Linux system is too much effort? Thats such poppy****. Shame on you, this had to be like a dozen man hours a month.
As someone stated before, it's not the exact same product. Also, there will be far more variation in software, drivers, and hardware for Linux users than there will be for Mac users, making testing more difficult and time consuming.
Even more importantly, you are forgetting that Cedega is not free to CCP. It has it's own cost over and above the cost of developing EVE itself. Add to that the fact that Linux market share overall is tiny compared to that of Windows and even the Mac. Licensing Cedega technology and enlisting Transgaming support to make the client available to that tiny number of users by comparison just doesn't make business sense. CCP has every right to cut their losses and keep their business successful.
|
Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.02.12 05:12:00 -
[98]
I am one of the few people still using the Cedega client. Sheer laziness has kept me from switching to Wine, a condition that is about to be rectified. However, if Eve should stop working under Wine, then I would stop playing Eve altogether. I do not use a Windows machine for gaming. My take however is that CCP would have to screw up greatly to lose Wine compatibility.
|
Technomagez
Gallente teeny tiny space pirates
|
Posted - 2009.02.12 05:30:00 -
[99]
Originally by: kakmonstret But there was hope for that one day we would have a official client that worked.
As some others have said please don't remove the Linux part of the forum!
sums my thoughts up pretty good.
|
mrkaczor
|
Posted - 2009.02.12 09:03:00 -
[100]
I hope CCP and DEVs will make some statement about that, until then we have to make this topic live. Maybe they finally realize that they estimation of linux community was wrong and underestimated.
|
|
Sevarus James
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.02.12 09:30:00 -
[101]
Originally by: mrkaczor I hope CCP and DEVs will make some statement about that, until then we have to make this topic live. Maybe they finally realize that they estimation of linux community was wrong and underestimated.
Earlier in the thread as well as a few locked threads elsewhere CCP indicated that they are monitoring this.
I add my voice (again) for a continuation of the linux section as a place where we can continue to help each other and provide feedback on the OS platform we choose to run EVE on.
Updated Ubuntu Compiz-Linux Desktop+EVE Premium |
Par'Gellen
Gallente Tres Hombres Psychiatric Hospital
|
Posted - 2009.02.12 13:14:00 -
[102]
Excellent news! Thank you for not wasting any more time on Linux! ---
To err is human. But it shouldn't be the company motto...
|
Hegbard
|
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:01:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Luke S now unless you want CCP to be like Blizzard and take a look at your computer with out you knowing, by all means join WoW.
Did you know that the EVE client is reading the memory of your computer?
|
Kandrew Dorak
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.02.12 23:06:00 -
[104]
Thanks for the update, Whisper. Nice to see an honest post by the devs. I grow weary of the deception I've seen in other posts.
|
Debeus
Amarr Princeps Corp Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.13 07:41:00 -
[105]
I'm not really surprised by this move. First, there was never a real "Linux client", what you did was package the Classic client with Cedega.
I don't know the details or advantages of doing this, but fact is the cedega part of the bundle got outdated pretty quickly (and Cedega is in turn a fork of an outdated wine), which did not work with "premium" graphics. You also want to get rid of "classic", so the outcome is clear.
Plus, it is a support nightmare. Well you can change/fix your own program, but not Cedega's. Cedega is not free open source to begin with... So you chained yourselves to them, and they failed, this was bound to happen.
Now the real solution was suggested to you many times: "Develop a native client". Yes, you might need to hire some people for that, but was it better than paying Cedega and not getting results (and no control) in the end?.
For this you have two choices:
No 1, do yourselves what Cedega was supposed to do, but instead use the power of Open Source in your favor: Bundle your windows client with Wine. You can patch Wine all you want, and give back those changes back to the community, if they are good, they will find their way into the main Wine branch, and everyone benefits. This is impossible with the closed source Cedega model.
No 2, more classy, maybe more or less work, i don't know... Release an OpenGL/SDL client. You have the source, you can do this.
Wine actually does this for you in realtime, but its translations are not always complete, so you have to check things when changing/improving.
You can do either and not offer official support to reduce costs. Just release and label them "unsupported". This community is very strong, and as you can see in the Wine thread, can support themselves if given the tools (eg: the forum). If you take the resources not spent in support, and instead use them to smokescreen test and maybe fix/patch things so it works good with wine (or if you pick option 2, distro testing), well even better.
You are catering to a geek audience, I'm seeing your ads at /. I think you should consider these things. This game is complex and harsh, similar to the challenge of using an alternative OS, so this is the type of people more willing to stay and keep up with the pain.
Also remember if you go with option No 2, you might find a chance to port the client to non traditional platforms, such as consoles (not just Microsoft's). Since you want to retail, why not retail there too? It'll also solve MacOS X. -- Wine + fix |
citral23
|
Posted - 2009.02.13 10:10:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Luke S Now, if you guys used the OFFICIAL client, you would not have this problem.
Could you actually post anything useful instead of trolling and insulting around ?
|
mrkaczor
|
Posted - 2009.02.13 12:10:00 -
[107]
Edited by: mrkaczor on 13/02/2009 12:10:37 True, lets do something about that:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=997887 |
Draco Argen
|
Posted - 2009.02.13 20:30:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Par'Gellen Excellent news! Thank you for not wasting any more time on Linux!
I honestly don't know what to say to that. Not even worth a flame lol. Unless it was pure Sarcasm, X up to hunt and kill Par'Gellen with ships named after Linux Distros lol
|
StinGer ShoGuN
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 01:51:00 -
[109]
I won't repeat what has been said before about OpenGL, Wine emulation, OpenSource and the Open community, but I would like to react to one point.
In the news, when Whisper says "However we have not seen any similar growth in the numbers using our Linux client.", this is not an argument to stop here. As some people said before, we were obtaining better results using Wine. If you wanted players to use the Linux client, you should have continue on coding a true real client which could provide similar results than the emulations with Wine or else. And then you would have seen a significant growth !
For coding programs compatible with the 3 OSes, I know how hard it is to build something that works correctly everywhere. But this is not stopping me, I keep going on.
Now you've chosen Windows¬, it's your choice. But don't be shocked if you see reverse engineering in EvE to make it more Linux compliant: this is freedom at all costs (yeah, I'm Gallentean... :D ) for those who don't want to pay for Windows¬. |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 10:05:00 -
[110]
Must say that is this happened, is not due to lack of linux users interest on eve. Is due to complete failure of ccp on providing a decent client for linux.
Starting by developing the new trinity engine in DX when they knew they wanted to support other operating systems. Poor choices, lazy uninformed developers or just dumb managers. |
|
Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 21:29:00 -
[111]
I'm not completely shocked to see this news, but hopefully they will at least do some basic testing with wine in the future so as not to completely alienate the linux players. I can understand them not wanting to guarantee compatibility with wine, since they don't have control of future wine changes, but some basic testing to try and keep the client working with wine would be appreciated I'm sure.
|
JimBob Leeroy
|
Posted - 2009.02.15 04:44:00 -
[112]
there are so many Linux users in this game it is not funny, most used Linux before support was there, and will probably after,but i would bet that there are more Linux users than mac,lets be honest. you don't want to spend time and money on something that will be done by most with out your support. only those that are new to Linux will suffer. and no other web site cares about them, why should you.
|
Corwain
|
Posted - 2009.02.15 21:10:00 -
[113]
Another guy that uses Wine to run EVE Premium here. Works damn well too. Well anyhow, if EVE doesn't work on Wine with the update I'll just take a break, spend the $45 a mo that my 3 accounts cost me and buy something else.
This is a shame and it discourages me that Wine users weren't even taken into account, but that CCP employees don't seem to get that people only use Wine because the official client didn't work. I could never get it to give me anything but a black box in the middle of my screen. -- Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Becka Call
|
Posted - 2009.02.15 21:27:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Must say that is this happened, is not due to lack of linux users interest on eve. Is due to complete failure of ccp on providing a decent client for linux.
Starting by developing the new trinity engine in DX when they knew they wanted to support other operating systems. Poor choices, lazy uninformed developers or just dumb managers.
More likely short sighted; they started before they knew they wanted to support other operating systems.
On a side note: CCP is beholden to Microsoft in several very big ways. Most of their technology from the server to the client is based not on any standard but on Microsoft's proprietary code. If MS decides to kill CCP to help a competitor, then EVE will be dead 3 months later.
|
Sevarus James
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 04:35:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Becka Call
On a side note: CCP is beholden to Microsoft in several very big ways. Most of their technology from the server to the client is based not on any standard but on Microsoft's proprietary code. If MS decides to kill CCP to help a competitor, then EVE will be dead 3 months later.
That is patently ridiculous. EVE's backbone has been and for the foreseeable future will be Python. This is open source and not under any sort of control by MS. If MS were to do what you say, CCP has PAID for the hardware. They have PAID for the software licenses, and you cannot just wave a magic wand and make that go away.
If MS support were withdrawn, CCP would most likely (especially for the ongoing HCP project), switch over to AIX or Linux as the underpinning, as they are ALSO partners with IBM, and as IBM is a direct competitor to Microsoft, my bet is they would JUMP at the chance to have CCP become a flagship customer.
MS is just a vendor that CCP is using, and that is their choice. Even without support from MS, CCP has a full staff of programmers that create the code they use, and after watching some of the fanfest material, I'm quite sure they are more than capable of "adjusting" as new situations arise, (and as a dev at fanfest mentioned quite clearly, many of them would have no issues WHATSOEVER switching over to OpenGL if that became a necessity.)
Statements like that are not constructive in a thread that we "know" CCP is watching. Lets keep it on track, eh?
Updated Ubuntu Compiz-Linux Desktop+EVE Premium |
Draco Argen
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 06:40:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Draco Argen on 16/02/2009 06:45:37 Edited by: Draco Argen on 16/02/2009 06:44:55 That is patently ridiculous. EVE's backbone has been and for the foreseeable future will be Python. This is open source and not under any sort of control by MS. If MS were to do what you say, CCP has PAID for the hardware. They have PAID for the software licenses, and you cannot just wave a magic wand and make that go away. <Clipped/> Statements like that are not constructive in a thread that we "know" CCP is watching. Lets keep it on track, eh?
One word, ASP. :S
Many more words: Although CCP seem to have chosen lots of MS based products, ASP for the website, DX for the GL, Windows for the client, (.Net for new patcher!?) they are no more dependent on or under threat from MS than a Truck driver is from Ford.
I agree with Sev, moving on;
Our merry band of *nix brothers seem to be moving a installer checking script along. I've yet to test it but it's a promising way of getting newblets auto checked into the correct state for Wine to work. (Providing it will work at all)
I Personally am working overtime to try and guide lost souls into using Wine in the forum. It's mildly the****utic. (lol at the auto ***s for ther.a.p.e.utic)
SISI testing is causing mix results, and without CCP's help were gonna be fumbling a little in the dark every SISI Patch to check everything still works. But Having a small litter of positive ish reports is good enough for me. The latest patcher changes are a shared source of pain with our windoze kin. And we already have some fixes for *nix on that.
Your testing Sev, and Co, is invaluable in these stages, just want to throw out my thanks.
Looks like we will pull this off, for now. But it would be nice to have some help from CCP, even if it is just verble encouragement, or recognition. I know we kinda didnt take to their gift of the TG client very graciously (Although i used it). Somewhat like a child ignoring a wooly jumper gift from an auntie.
Perhaps friendly conversations about issue some nominated bug hunters bring up/Collate. No requirements, or onus. Just a hey, hows life, whats up with the weather in Iceland, whats that funky shader function you used that made our screens turn into a 70's disco-tech, So we can emulate it in more accurately, kinda thing.
Edit: Do we have and CSM leaders who run *Nix? If not, perhaps we should work on that. Proportional representation and all that.
|
Mallikan
Gallente KDS Navy
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 15:37:00 -
[117]
This really isn't fair.. I would be using Linux if it weren't for the client sucking so bad. You can't offer a poor client and say "Oh well, hardly anyone chooses to use the sucky one over the good one, no one will use it." EVE is one of the last things holding me to a windows operating system. >:(
--- For great justice. Or something.
|
tedivm
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 17:41:00 -
[118]
CCP (and I hope some CCP staff are reading this) may end up having some problems they hadn't counted on because of this, but at the same time if they're smart they can turn that around.
Lets really look at what Eve is here- its the ultimate geek game. Its got a ridiculous learning curve, a large chunk of the game it mapping out skills and min/maxing ship stats, and lets not forget the premise of the game itself, which tends to appeal to geeks. Hell, you could rename this game 'Geeks in Space' and everyone would still know you meant eve.
The linux (and open source crowd as a whole) isn't just a bunch of random people, its a community (of geeks) with a lot of core members and a lot more fringe members. For instance, I am using the game on OSX most of the time, but all my servers run on linux. Obviously I'm not a person who is using the Linux client, yet I would most likely not be playing this game if it wasn't for the fact that there was one.
You see, the Linux community is already used to being vocal, so when they see something they like (or otherwise), they talk about it. When you throw out linux support, you're also tossing all that marketing.
Of course, that doesn't make you wrong. I did try out the linux client, and it sucks. I mean its bloody awful. Your mistake wasn't in pulling Linux support, it was in half assing it and putting out a crappy client, and then being surprised when people didn't use the crappy client.
Moving Forward
From here there are two places CCP can go. I'm going to start with the most likely, but also the worst thing CCP can do- absolutely nothing.
CCP can drop the client (as its done) and just leave it at that, but this would be a disaster. First, all of the OSX users (such as myself) are going to get nervous that we're next. See, even though this blog post specifically states that the OSX client is doing better, the lack of communication from CCP about the linux client up until they canceled it scares me. Am I just going to wake up one day, try to log in, and find some blog post telling me I'm no longer allowed to play because CCP doesn't like my operating system? There's no way of knowing because CCP botched how they handled this one.
When I stated this post I did say there was something CCP could do to turn this around. This has already been mentioned numerous times in this thread, but it bears repeating. Repeating in big bold letters:
GIVE SOME SUPPORT TO WINE USERS.
Most of the Linux users where using Wine to begin with, due to the crap quality of the Linux client. Many of the posts in the Linux forums are about getting Eve to work with Wine.
How much effort would it be to test new updates in Wine for problems before launch, or to add a few articles to your support documentation about using Wine? By taking some of the money you've been dumping into that god awful linux client and putting it towards better Wine support you will end up seeing a better return on your investment.
If this means actually supporting the open source project itself, all the better. This will bring you a lot more publicity (imagine having Slashdot posting about your support of Wine, as opposed to them posting about your drop of linux) and, as mentioned earlier, the open source community tends to talk.
|
Val Strommer
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.02.19 09:47:00 -
[119]
First I'd like to thank ccp for giving linux a chance. I understand linux with its many flavors and configurations is tough a target and most companies don't give us time of day.
I think the first thing linux users expect is a native client. having to run a program under windows emulation is non-starter for many linux users. Most people started using linux in order to avoid windows. But I undertand in terms of resources a native linux client is probably a non-starter for ccp.
But why not go with the flow and support the client under wine as best you can? Improve wine to run your current windows client more smoothley. You don't have to guarentee it, just stick a guy, a few days a week on fixing problems with wine that the eve client reveals and keep the an article current on how to set up eve under wine. Instead of saying linux is actually supported (and all the resources and effort that entails), advertise it as a unofficial good faith effort. Thats all I've considered "works under windows emulation" to be anyway.
It's also expensive for us linux users, just to keep one extra descent machine around with windows on it, just to play eve. If you could have offered us the same level of client quality that windows players have, we would have used it. I'm sure that if the current client begins to run as smoothly under wine as it does windows, word will spread, and your linux client numbers will increase.
Does ccp know if a client is run under wine, or since the client thinks it's running under windows, does it report back as windows? ---
|
Sevarus James
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.02.20 11:05:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Sevarus James on 20/02/2009 11:07:18 Edited by: Sevarus James on 20/02/2009 11:05:32
Originally by: Val Strommer
Does ccp know if a client is run under wine, or since the client thinks it's running under windows, does it report back as windows?
If they didn't before they should by now. They weren't looking for it before by their own admission as they were looking ONLY at the users of the "official client" rather than the reg key that identifies wine or windows.
They could check this to see, but as this thread's gettin' about as much "love" now as the normal CCP responses have been in the linux section, who knows.
-when the thread gets unstickied....tis history unless the users keep it floating...but typically ccp's responses get far and few between at that point. Updated Ubuntu Compiz-Linux Desktop+EVE Premium |
|
Draco Argen
|
Posted - 2009.02.20 21:24:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Val Strommer
I think the first thing linux users expect is a native client. Having to run a program under windows emulation is non-starter for many linux users. Most people started using linux in order to avoid windows. But I understand in terms of resources a native linux client is probably a non-starter for ccp.
We'll Eve graphics is currently Direct X, and Wine is the only, and most successful solution for DX support under Linux. I don't know if its possible/easy to design and program a game that uses native lib for everything except the GFX (And use wine for that), but i don't think that's a sensible solution. Emulation with wine or a successful derivative is fine for me, if it works. CCP staff have already stated translation to OpenGL would be staggering, and i can sympathise. Although others have commented on backroom Dev's saying, if they had to move to OpenGL they would manage. This is all rumour and gossip though.
Originally by: Val Strommer
Does ccp know if a client is run under wine, or since the client thinks it's running under windows, does it report back as windows?
Yeah, Sev's right volumes have been spoken on this. Up shot is No, CCP have no statistics for Wine users, and also seem to show little interest in it imo. But The general tenure of replies from CCP staff have been, that's not relevant to what has happened. The "Official Client" has low usage, so the official client is cut. I can see where this comes from, I'd just like them to be a bit more explicit, so we don't feel so unloved. Hug would be nice.
Short note also for those that may have missed it. Rumor mill is that CCP approached Codeweavers already. But codeweavers turned them down. Reasons for this could be 101 things, varying from too little money, to too much risk or complexity, or just no free time from CW. No idea myself.
|
Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
|
Posted - 2009.02.21 14:23:00 -
[122]
Heh, Python is more of an emulator than Wine is. So, Eve isn't native on any platform. :P
------ Vote for Low graphics client |
Solomon XI
Kult of Kaos R.E.P.O.
|
Posted - 2009.02.27 07:37:00 -
[123]
Well I'll add my two cents to this --- albeit, somewhat late.
CCP, your LINUX adaption sucked. Sorry to be direct but I'm a direct-type of person. You are discontinuing support for Linux but let's be honest here. CCP never truly cared about the Linux gaming community.
There are ways available to you to create a fast and stable Linux client but you just don't want to do it. You choose the worst possible way to bring Eve-Online to Linux and this is the fallout.
Your Linux subscriber numbers were weak because their option for playing EVE was horrible. Had you handled Linux in a different manner, we would not be in this position. Simple as that.
I'm sad to see the Linux plans die like this. I was planning to switch over to Linux completely once you released a decent EVE client for it but now I'm stuck having a Windows partition on my drive. Thanks, so very much.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page] |