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Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
17
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Posted - 2012.04.22 13:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
For starters I do not think that this idea is a panacea for cloaking problems, but i just want to throw it out there for others to see. It might spawn better ideas perhaps.
Make cloaked ships semi-scannable - as in cloaked ship generates 1000+ km anomaly sphere in the system that either can't be scanned to 100% or has random warp in location - Therefore people wont be able to simply scan warp in and decloak the target.
It is provides the basic location of the cloaked ship in space - and if it starts warping somewhere the sphere will move. Allowing these, who pay attention to notice the incoming threat. While if you slack off - well tough luck.
It might be also a good idea to merge the "anomalous sphere"-s of multiple ships into one - thus denying easy intel to the scanner.
Also might be a good idea to utilize upgraded module that comes with it's own set of draw-backs to offset the bonus ability (more skills, tighter fitting, less power) to keep it more for situational use.
What do you guys think? |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
17
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Posted - 2012.04.22 16:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
And I wasn't asking a yes or no. I wanted to start a discussion, especially since I've personally agreed this isnt a cure. I wouldn't have posted this in F&I otherwise. |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
17
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Posted - 2012.04.22 17:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
2 Xorv
I know and frankly i have absolutely no qualms about cloaking myself, but people do talk about it and I thought perhaps a mid-way solution can be done: something that scans out the cloakies but never allows one to actually catch them.
No matter how much i wish for delayed local I am afraid CCP wont go there in recent future. Especially since all these new fancy additions to local they are introducing.
2 Belshazzar Babylon
Thank you for you comment, I know that this is one of the dead horses of Eve community that we tend to beat tirelessly, but perhaps once in a blue moon we might stumble upon a suggestion that makes both parties agree. And as I've mentioned above people usually go into extremes of cloaking \ decloaking I simply tried to find another path and start a discussion in that direction.
P.S. I wish we had delayed local with crippled scanning of ships mentioned above, forcing players to actively collect data of their system instead of getting everything on a plate. |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
17
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Posted - 2012.04.22 20:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tidurious wrote:Belshazzar Babylon wrote:Negative Ghostrider the OP is stupid. Fixed that for you. NO.
No what? did you read my question? or you just read the topic and answered w/o reading? |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
17
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Posted - 2012.04.22 22:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
2 Mag's
- I also live in WH and I have absolutely no qualms in the way cloaking is done right now while I also like the absence of the local myself. I was simply trying to aggregate both side of the argument and not push my idea but start a discussion in the way of: one side gives something up and another side gives up something too.
Please refer to P.S. of #6 for example.
2 Tikktokk Tokkzikk
And what made you think I didn't ? I did look up the search, but i haven't seen the suggestions similar to mine. That is why i added it to the discussion. And if you think this topic can't be discussed at all - what is the point of this forum then?
2 All
As I've stated in the 1st message * I do not think that is the solution* It was merely given as an example.
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Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
17
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Posted - 2012.04.23 12:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Xorv wrote: Nothing you said there really makes sense to me.
You're telling me that you have "no qualms about cloaking" yourself, but decided to start a new thread that claims cloaking is a problem and go on to suggest a nerf by means of detection mechanics. You're either very confused or lying.
I have no personal problems with cloaking but i do see threads coming up once in a while. And I simply thought this idea might spawn some discussion by slightly nerfing cloakys but still keeping them invulnerable, and perhaps getting a counter balanced by something else that cloak pilots might enjoy.
Xorv wrote: You're not suggesting "a mid way point", there's no compromise in your proposal, it's just a nerf to CovOps. A compromise would address the problems of CovOps pilots and players as well, and that means doing something about Local Chat!
This:
Eidric wrote: P.S. I wish we had delayed local with crippled scanning of ships mentioned above, forcing players to actively collect data of their system instead of getting everything on a plate.
And I've also wanted others to provide counter balance to my offer instead of saying yes or no. Especially since I dont have very solid counter balance myself as such I've did not included it in my original post. Hence i've said that the idea isn't complete. And i've really liked that combination you proposed of this slight nerf to cloak + removed local.
Xorv wrote: You also seem to have mind reading powers when it comes to CCP developers, in that you're convinced they will never remove/change Local, but would be happy to destroy cloaking by adding a detection method without addressing the Local issue. You are aware that CCP mentioned changing Local in the last CSM 6 minutes along with cloak detection?
I did not said CCP wont do it - I said I am afraid they won't because they are spending man-hours currently to improve handling of local UI. - Unless of course the local UI improvements they are implementing will be for Empire only. |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
17
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Posted - 2012.04.23 17:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Eidric wrote:2 Mag's
- I also live in WH and I have absolutely no qualms in the way cloaking is done right now while I also like the absence of the local myself. I was simply trying to aggregate both side of the argument and not push my idea but start a discussion in the way of: one side gives something up and another side gives up something too.
Please refer to P.S. of #6 for example. For any idea to be viable, there needs to be balance. Yours misses the mark in that regard. Plus as has been said, your idea is nothing new and only breaks cloaking. As Xorv said, you're either confused or lying.
Please read #16
And even in #6 I suggested nerfed local as balance to this idea. Have you read it?
I want you to help me find a decent balancing option to this problem - I am not trying to push this idea into game as is even I know it wouldn't be fair. |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
17
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Posted - 2012.04.24 12:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:You are addressing a non existent balance issue.
Balance exists. It may not be what you want, but that does not make it unbalanced.
As balance must be maintained for gameplay to be worthwhile, any suggestion that ignores half the equation will probably be shot down by Mag's
He does that.
And i wanted others to contribute to the discussion by providing counter balance.
Unfortunately everyone and especially Mag's got stuck with an idea that my proposition was in final form and does not need to be readjusted in any way. If it was I would've posted it on Assembly Hall.
Here I've come for two way discussion that could potentially result in some constructive ideas. But right now beyond Xorv there was little actual feedback.
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Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
17
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Posted - 2012.04.24 12:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
What about log in ? Because then people would just enter the system and relogin right away. In effect this would make same delayed local, but with constant relogining.
Surprise cloaking is great and should be implemented in the game but not in the way that allows a person to always kill it's target.
I would think the best idea would be two way surprise gank. With delayed local and cloak a ship can easily get in and capture it's prey. While at the same time Via another mechanic the prey might either find the cloaky (that doesnt even show on the local) or gather information about his activity - denying the kill or acting as a bait. |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
17
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Posted - 2012.04.24 14:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thank you Nikk
I also would like to see more a trade off though since the current system is balanced more or less if we wish to modify it we do need to modify both parts
Cloaked ship most important asset is information, and that information comes with a trade off: if pilot wants to scan a ship in random space location (not anomalys) it needs to release probes that also relay information to everyone that some activity is happening
Matter of fact is in WH's especially in high level ones, where people know what to look for, cloaked ships can only be really hidden when they have been inside the system for a long time and without known WH connection. This makes current cloak absolutely great for wormholes: If you want the element of surprise up until you decloak you have to sacrifice the firepower (no open hole to throw the gank through).
Usually the WH dwellers know when a new hole opens within their system.
As such even in WH it is possible to achieve a semi-reseblance of information about local ships, What makes us different is that we do not know who, how much and where enters our system. (+ random holes ofc)
And all that information is gathered manually
What I think would be viable is "no local" of course to provide the element of surprise, but we do need to know that cloaked ship in K-space can have much more "firepower" attached to it. Due to permanent gates, Cyno's etc
As such the information it gathers in K-space is much more valuable and "no local" has to be countered above the WH level.
But at the same time we should try not to boost the WH scan because that would nerf WH cloaking too much which atm is actually perfect
So to summarize all that i've just writte
* K-space modifications should come with K-space only drawback
* No local - is information and at best should be countered via some other information achievable by defenders. (Manually not automatically) to achieve balance similar to WH
* Information can be countered by decreasing *total* offensive capabilities of the cloaky (Total means cynos\gangs on other side etc) For example Cyno-jammers do in fact make cloaked less powerful in that system simply by limiting the maximum firepower
That is why i wanted that cripple-scan to show approximate location of the cloaked ship - to balace the information with information |
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Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
17
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Posted - 2012.04.24 20:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Remade the original topic to provide more emphasis.
I actually do like Nikk idea of utilizing the D-scan as this allows highly mobile cloaks to effectively become invisible, Yet this should come at appropriate draw-back. |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
17
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Posted - 2012.05.11 04:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yes that is why i've said that removal of local is much more serious in K-space than in W-space and need to be countered by K-specific features. |
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