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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 26 post(s) |
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2009.02.09 18:28:00 -
[91]
Originally by: DeepBlue this looks like a bug:
i just found a wormhole warping there got me this message: "Readings from your ship's computer suggest that this wormhole is likely to take you elsewhere in 0.0-rated space."
approaching it with cheetah and trying to jump gave this message: "This wormhole has collapsed"
Yup, that's a bug. Everything is collapsed right now on SiSi, bug being fixed soon. |
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Dragossin
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Posted - 2009.02.09 18:30:00 -
[92]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
This is how I intended it to work originally; I'm not sure why that doesn't match up with the patchnotes... The logic is that any ship which has a current launcher fitted has enough CPU to fit the expanded launcher, and at that point why would you want the less-capable core one? It's something we could change (if I buy Prism X some chocolate), but I think the current change makes more sense personally.
If i look at it from that angle, it seems a bit more understandable.
But i think it is sort of "unbalanced". If it stays like this, there will be a lot expanded launchers on patch day, while there are 0 core launchers (same for the bpos). If someone wants to do exploration only, he will have to get a new bpo or launcher (working under the assumption that he wants to benefit from the lesser cpu requirement), while he still has some expanded launchers he doesn't need (and which may be worthless because basically everyone, who did have at least one launcher in the past, has now an expanded probe launcher). Same goes for the SOE launchers (where this may hurt a lot more, because they are not as cheap as the basic ones).
If the launchers are replaced with their counterpart instead (scan probe launcher I -> core probe launcher and recon probe launcher I->expanded probe launcher I) then this may not happen, because there should be enough launchers of each type on the market. It should be easier for people to trade of unneeded launchers this way.
Imho it is already bad enough that those of us who are into exploration (and bought all 17 different probe bpo's) have to end up with a stack of the core probe bpo. I don't want to see the same happening for the launchers, if it can be prevented.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.09 18:41:00 -
[93]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Yes, this applies to ships, and yes it will make finding ships harder. Personally I'm happy with this - the current system is IMO too fast, and apart from anything else made ship probing far less common, in my experience. With the old old system people would use safespots because good probing pilots were rare and it took a long time. When the old system came in and everyone realized that there's no such thing as a safespot, the chances of actually finding someone (outside missions and so on) became much lower. I'm interested to see how this new system affects things.
That said, if you do have a strong opinion on this issue, please explain it here clearly :)
Sure. Saying this as a low-sec pirate, experiences may be different elsewhere:
The problem with increasing scan times is that currently, even my covops alt with under a 30 second scan time has problems finding a target. Like you said, a lot of people realize that probes are a threat, so they either change safespots frequently, or keep refreshing a 14au 360* scan looking for scan probes to appear. I prefer the second option, I'll still safespot (especially while waiting to warp in on a target of my own), but I'll keep that scan up and warp to a new location as soon as a probe appears in the scan results.
Currently, with under 30 second scan times, it works at least some of the time. Scan the target, destroy probe, and with a little luck, the target isn't aware that they've been found and a gank fleet is on the way. However, if you increase the time to get a warpable scan result, you vastly increase the chances that the target realizes you're looking for them and warps off.
Or, in the case of safespotting while looking for a target (vs. safespotting to hide), the target finishes their search and warps in for the kill. Or moves on to a new system because they can't find anything. Or whatever other reason for moving on, but in the end, you only have a very limited window where the target is vulnerable.
Now, this applies much less to scanning for mission ships (and for deadspace sites themselves, of course), since it almost always takes multiple scan attempts, the mission runner is usually focused on their mission instead of watching for threats, and they have considerable motivation to finish their mission instead of warping off. So I don't think the new system will be a problem here. -----------
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.02.09 18:44:00 -
[94]
I like very much that you have taken the chance based game out of Exploration.
Of course that is going to take some time for some people to adjust to, but it is far more interesting. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Hoshi
Eviction.
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Posted - 2009.02.09 18:58:00 -
[95]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Yes, this applies to ships, and yes it will make finding ships harder. Personally I'm happy with this - the current system is IMO too fast, and apart from anything else made ship probing far less common, in my experience. With the old old system people would use safespots because good probing pilots were rare and it took a long time. When the old system came in and everyone realized that there's no such thing as a safespot, the chances of actually finding someone (outside missions and so on) became much lower. I'm interested to see how this new system affects things.
That said, if you do have a strong opinion on this issue, please explain it here clearly :)
While I can understand and in some way even relate to the issue (I was one of those "good" probers back then, those that we regularly fought against started warp between safes as soon as my probe char entered system :) ). I still can't say I long for the old days. Back then you usually ended up with 2 fleets sitting in different safes smacktalking each other with no actual combat.
The new (soon to be old) system meant that yes actually getting a warp in on someone was uncommon but only because people acutally moved around, not just between safes inside a system but also between systems. The result being much more actual combat than before. |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.09 19:00:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Yes, this applies to ships, and yes it will make finding ships harder. Personally I'm happy with this - the current system is IMO too fast, and apart from anything else made ship probing far less common, in my experience. With the old old system people would use safespots because good probing pilots were rare and it took a long time. When the old system came in and everyone realized that there's no such thing as a safespot, the chances of actually finding someone (outside missions and so on) became much lower. I'm interested to see how this new system affects things.
That said, if you do have a strong opinion on this issue, please explain it here clearly :)
Sure. Saying this as a low-sec pirate, experiences may be different elsewhere:
The problem with increasing scan times is that currently, even my covops alt with under a 30 second scan time has problems finding a target. Like you said, a lot of people realize that probes are a threat, so they either change safespots frequently, or keep refreshing a 14au 360* scan looking for scan probes to appear. I prefer the second option, I'll still safespot (especially while waiting to warp in on a target of my own), but I'll keep that scan up and warp to a new location as soon as a probe appears in the scan results.
Currently, with under 30 second scan times, it works at least some of the time. Scan the target, destroy probe, and with a little luck, the target isn't aware that they've been found and a gank fleet is on the way. However, if you increase the time to get a warpable scan result, you vastly increase the chances that the target realizes you're looking for them and warps off.
Or, in the case of safespotting while looking for a target (vs. safespotting to hide), the target finishes their search and warps in for the kill. Or moves on to a new system because they can't find anything. Or whatever other reason for moving on, but in the end, you only have a very limited window where the target is vulnerable.
Now, this applies much less to scanning for mission ships (and for deadspace sites themselves, of course), since it almost always takes multiple scan attempts, the mission runner is usually focused on their mission instead of watching for threats, and they have considerable motivation to finish their mission instead of warping off. So I don't think the new system will be a problem here.
I disagree. I used to use a collection of SS's to hide from gankers in my 00 systems. I learned the hard way a while ago how truly fast a SS can get busted and since then, I go to my POS now.
The change may change peoples' habits. Also, probes will stay in space even if you log out or (I think) leave the system. So, you can return to the system in a few minutes with your probes already in position. |
Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.09 19:02:00 -
[97]
5isk to the first person that can throw up a video showing probing as working. Because I have 8 probes out right now with a 100% signal strength on a cosmic sig, and I still can't get anything to warp to. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.02.09 19:06:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Verite Rendition 5isk to the first person that can throw up a video showing probing as working. Because I have 8 probes out right now with a 100% signal strength on a cosmic sig, and I still can't get anything to warp to.
Sounds like one of my tests. Problem is that of those 8 probes only 3 actually have the signature in range. Remove 4 probes to clear some clutter and move one probe closer to sig, scan, move other probe .. etc.
It will become warp-able when all four probes get a hit. |
mamolian
Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2009.02.09 19:10:00 -
[99]
Figured it out at last /\
Its an interesting system.. Slow and clunky and not very intuitive.. Looking forward to seeing it when it goes live.. |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.09 19:12:00 -
[100]
Oooh ya, all 4 have to be in range. |
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Deva Blackfire
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2009.02.09 19:13:00 -
[101]
Originally by: mamolian Figured it out at last /\
Its an interesting system.. Slow and clunky and not very intuitive.. Looking forward to seeing it when it goes live..
Id say it can be much faster than current TQ system BUT moving probes around system is really a pain. System map needs tactical overlay for probe and signature "height". Or like someone proposed - you drag and drop probes on X Y plane and CTRL+drag for Z axis (like in homeworld). Would be like 10x faster.
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DeepBlue
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.09 19:32:00 -
[102]
Edited by: DeepBlue on 09/02/2009 19:32:09 evening once more,
seems there are sig around here, wich just cant be found.
My char has: - Maxed out scanning skills - full virtue set, and other scanning relevant implants
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0902/2009.02.09.19.24.37.jpg
all i can get on this site is 32.28% sig strength, with 7 probes! for each probe i add it gives a additional 0.5 sig strenght.
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Vesas
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.09 19:33:00 -
[103]
I got 4 probes all with .25au, 100% hits on all 4, all at ranges below .25au (checked each individually too) but no red/yellow/green blob to warp to.
I checked that scan results are turned on in the control panel. Am I missing something fundamental?
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Thaliya Dejar
Jagdkommando RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.09 19:34:00 -
[104]
Originally by: DeepBlue Edited by: DeepBlue on 09/02/2009 19:32:09 evening once more,
seems there are sig around here, wich just cant be found.
My char has: - Maxed out scanning skills - full virtue set, and other scanning relevant implants
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0902/2009.02.09.19.24.37.jpg
all i can get on this site is 32.28% sig strength, with 7 probes! for each probe i add it gives a additional 0.5 sig strenght.
Yeah i have the same problem.
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Halada
Caldari Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.09 19:40:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Halada on 09/02/2009 19:40:53 I know you said probes won't warp until you start scanning but the current timer makes the whole process very frustrating ... positioning the probes in the 3D space is as easy as POS (that means NOT!).
Also, once an anomaly is detected and we get the blue circle, could we select it and sort of lock our view on it so we can circle around it without jerking with the right and left button to get our bearings for our 4 probes trying to triangulate it properly.
★ LSJV now recruiting ★ |
Ancy Denaries
Caldari Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.02.09 19:47:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Ancy Denaries on 09/02/2009 19:48:48
Originally by: DeepBlue Edited by: DeepBlue on 09/02/2009 19:32:09 evening once more,
seems there are sig around here, wich just cant be found.
My char has: - Maxed out scanning skills - full virtue set, and other scanning relevant implants
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0902/2009.02.09.19.24.37.jpg
all i can get on this site is 32.28% sig strength, with 7 probes! for each probe i add it gives a additional 0.5 sig strenght.
Exactly the same problem here This needs a fix before it hits TQ. Unfindable sigs are going to **** people off to no end. -----
EVE is a PvP game. Adaptation is your survival. |
DeepBlue
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.09 19:51:00 -
[107]
Originally by: DeepBlue Edited by: DeepBlue on 09/02/2009 19:32:09 evening once more,
seems there are sig around here, wich just cant be found.
My char has: - Maxed out scanning skills - full virtue set, and other scanning relevant implants
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0902/2009.02.09.19.24.37.jpg
update to this. Now have the 5th wich isnt findable!
all i can get on this site is 32.28% sig strength, with 7 probes! for each probe i add it gives a additional 0.5 sig strenght.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.02.09 19:56:00 -
[108]
I am disappointed.
Moving the probes is anti-intuitive, it takes hundreds of mouseclicks before the site is found. There needs to be at least a solar system plane. But better rework the whole probe-moving system with snap-points. Look at Google SketchUp, that a good example how you can design a neat and intuitive 3d positioning system. In any case we need that solar system plane. And please make the probe range spheres shiny translucent blue like the ones currently ones on TQ, that silver-grey is ugly.
Are there multispec probes available to see if and which sites are in a system available? Otherwise I give the whole exploration and wormhole stuff not a good future.
Ah well, this is the first version and my little ranting is only due to the fact that I expected more. But there are still 30 days left or so to improve things |
Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.09 19:59:00 -
[109]
BTW, what the heck happened to multispec probes? And what's with results not returning as radar/ladar/grav/mag/unknown? Finding a radar when you want an unknown and vice versa is going to get very annoying very quickly. |
Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.09 20:00:00 -
[110]
Originally by: DeepBlue Edited by: DeepBlue on 09/02/2009 19:32:09 evening once more,
seems there are sig around here, wich just cant be found.
My char has: - Maxed out scanning skills - full virtue set, and other scanning relevant implants
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0902/2009.02.09.19.24.37.jpg
all i can get on this site is 32.28% sig strength, with 7 probes! for each probe i add it gives a additional 0.5 sig strenght.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but with a distance of 1.5AU, it doesn't sound like your probes are close enough. |
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.02.09 20:01:00 -
[111]
Originally by: DeepBlue Edited by: DeepBlue on 09/02/2009 19:32:09 evening once more,
seems there are sig around here, wich just cant be found.
My char has: - Maxed out scanning skills - full virtue set, and other scanning relevant implants
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0902/2009.02.09.19.24.37.jpg
all i can get on this site is 32.28% sig strength, with 7 probes! for each probe i add it gives a additional 0.5 sig strenght.
Do you have all probes in one plane? Not easy to see on the screenshot. You need the probes in a 3d arrangement, not only 2 dimensions like a plane. |
DeepBlue
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.09 20:08:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: DeepBlue Edited by: DeepBlue on 09/02/2009 19:32:09 evening once more,
seems there are sig around here, wich just cant be found.
My char has: - Maxed out scanning skills - full virtue set, and other scanning relevant implants
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0902/2009.02.09.19.24.37.jpg
all i can get on this site is 32.28% sig strength, with 7 probes! for each probe i add it gives a additional 0.5 sig strenght.
Do you have all probes in one plane? Not easy to see on the screenshot. You need the probes in a 3d arrangement, not only 2 dimensions like a plane.
had it on a plane, and then everywhere around it.
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mamolian
Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2009.02.09 20:08:00 -
[113]
Wormhole
Found one -----------
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Kjellerup
Minmatar The Qing Dynasty Lux Caelestia
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Posted - 2009.02.09 20:14:00 -
[114]
Originally by: CCP Casqade
Originally by: Hoshi Ok here is a small problem.
When a probe is recovered it comes in a state where it it's sort of unpacked. That means it can't be stacked with other probes. This in turn means that once you have used all probes once you can only load 1 at a time in the launcher and have to reload after each is launched.
This is currently by design. You can repack them in station or take 10 seconds for each probe to load back into the launcher.
Except for the fact that there's no option to repackage them when you are docked :( (I'm using some old probes that were 'converted' to Core probes, which may explain why I can't repackage them)
--------------------------- Empyreum Recruitment
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.02.09 20:15:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Verite Rendition BTW, what the heck happened to multispec probes? And what's with results not returning as radar/ladar/grav/mag/unknown? Finding a radar when you want an unknown and vice versa is going to get very annoying very quickly.
You don't need multispecs anymore since you can cover a full system with the deep space probe. -----
EVE is a PvP game. Adaptation is your survival. |
Halada
Caldari Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.09 20:31:00 -
[116]
Anyone is ****ed at the fact Signal Acquisition 5 takes 32ish days to train and with this awesome new system you end up saving 1 second ???
Epic fail... can I get those 30 days back?
★ LSJV now recruiting ★ |
Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.09 20:38:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Halada Anyone is ****ed at the fact Signal Acquisition 5 takes 32ish days to train and with this awesome new system you end up saving 1 second ???
Epic fail... can I get those 30 days back?
Might be premature, some chill may be in order:
Originally by: CCP Greyscale What [skills will] probably end up doing is that everything that currently affects scan time will be switched to scan strength and vice versa, and the scan deviation one stays the same. {snip} This isn't all implemented yet so if you have opinions please share them!
I remain a little concerned -- until I've had a chance to play with this, my patch is still downloading -- that there may not be a variable in the new system as important as the scan time used to be. If the overall importance of the scan skills diminishes, than the extreme training times on them will be wasted.
If it turns out that scan strength is as important as scan time used to be, won't be a problem. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Hoshi
Eviction.
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Posted - 2009.02.09 20:38:00 -
[118]
Ok I made a vid, not a very good one but at least something. Was a bit unlucky ending up with a low strength site so I needed more than 4 probes and also got hit by the moving sphere bug once.
No narration nor any voice over, you will have to have to try to figure out yourself what is happening. I'll look at making a better one tomorrow.
Btw at one time I recall all my probes and launch again, this is not needed but due to the jiffiness of moving probes I feel it's mostly faster to do it that way than to move the probes a fairly large distance.
http://ww.ludd.ltu.se/~mcgreag/eve/scan.mkv 65.3mb 8min
---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Ki Tarra
Caldari Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.09 20:39:00 -
[119]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Haral Reimo
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Three probes will give you two results*, one above the plane and one below. Four gives you a solid hit which you can warp to.
The result doesn't become warpable until you get a hit with four probes.
Given that those two points generated from 3 probes should be a reasonable degree of accuracy, with the 4th probe just determining between them, is there a reason you don't allow people to just warp to both points to see which one is the actual hit?
Actually now I think about it, it's possible that those two points are indeed warpable. I can't remember exactly
...because it would be exploitable for creating ulta-deep safe spots:
Alt----------Probes----------Desitation
Arrange like so, warp to the location where you know your alt is not, move the probes and repeat until you are so far away from everything that you might as well be in the next constellation.
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Halada
Caldari Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.09 20:42:00 -
[120]
Any plans to release the version of the scanner where probe do not warp until we start scanning?
The timer is really really frustrating!
Thank you!
★ LSJV now recruiting ★ |
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