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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Yeshua Christ
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Posted - 2009.02.10 07:40:00 -
[61]
Originally by: TorsoCollector all that happens is everyones characters become perfect equal skill training machines apeasing butthurt idiots like you and completely takes away the point of even having character attributes
And it wasn't like this before with Achura alts springing up everywhere anyway? Get over it. If it bothers you so much gtfo of this game and go find some other game to troll.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.02.10 07:43:00 -
[62]
Originally by: TorsoCollector You only use 2 attributes to train a skill so you set those 2 as high as you can then train the skills that use those then change them to whatever 2 are the needed for the next set you want to train.
I admit I'm not 100% behind the way that they're implementing this redistribution thing. Personally I wish they just implemented a 100 mil fee for each point you reallocate. Nonetheless, remember that you can only change this stuff in the actual system every six months, and you can't redistribute points below a certain amount in each category, so even if you max the two you plan on using the most there's still a limit to how high you can push it.
Also, if you decide to change your training plan you're screwed for months on end with gimped training times. Admittedly this isn't such a big drawback for people with specialist alts who may have a year-long training plan for pouring skills solely into gunnery or whatnot, but no amount of whining about alts is going to change anything about them at this point
Anyway it could be worse. They could just let people change them at will at no cost. I'm sure at least someone on the design team was pushing for such. The system they've implemented just reeks of compromise.
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Fire Ants
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
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Posted - 2009.02.10 07:43:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Fire Ants on 10/02/2009 07:43:54
Originally by: TorsoCollector all that happens is everyones characters become perfect equal skill training machines apeasing butthurt idiots like you and completely takes away the point of even having character attributes
Even in that case - which I think is unlikely and smacks of Tinfoil Hat Syndrome - the worst that could happen is that total SP becomes a smaller part of the equation and skill becomes a stronger factor. Even that doesn't sound too horrifying to me. ----- Internet Spaceships perfectly strikes your Sense of Humor, wrecking for Serious Business. ----- |
TorsoCollector
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Posted - 2009.02.10 07:44:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Yeshua Christ
Originally by: TorsoCollector all that happens is everyones characters become perfect equal skill training machines apeasing butthurt idiots like you and completely takes away the point of even having character attributes
And it wasn't like this before with Achura alts springing up everywhere anyway? Get over it. If it bothers you so much gtfo of this game and go find some other game to troll.
then support a nerf of achura if you hate them so much don't turn the game into some hippie rainbow everything has to be fair because everyone is a winner land
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TR4D3R4LT
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Posted - 2009.02.10 07:45:00 -
[65]
Edited by: TR4D3R4LT on 10/02/2009 07:45:21
Originally by: TorsoCollector yes I have been on the test server and how much you can change it isn't the issue the fact that you can change it at all is the problem 1 point or 10 it is still buying SP plain and simple
You do realize you're making yourself look silly here. The kind of silly nobody dares to laugh because it makes them just sad. Your only argument against attribute changing is that it's " buying SP plain and simple."
Let's review some things and see if we agree.
1. Since ages long time ago, you could have bought GTC from vendor, be it CCP or third party ->sell it to player, generating yourself isk with rl cash. True? 2. Since ages long time ago, there existed such forum as character sales, where you can pay isk to buy yourself higher sp character. True?
1+2= ?
Think, think, think. You might get it someday and see it's been happening for a long long time and this thread has no effect whether those who wish so have change to buy sp or not.
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Fire Ants
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
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Posted - 2009.02.10 07:45:00 -
[66]
Originally by: TorsoCollector then support a nerf of achura if you hate them so much don't turn the game into some hippie rainbow everything has to be fair because everyone is a winner land
If you're equating having the most SP with being a "winner," you must not have been paying attention. I have one word for you:
Garmon. ----- Internet Spaceships perfectly strikes your Sense of Humor, wrecking for Serious Business. ----- |
Yeshua Christ
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Posted - 2009.02.10 07:47:00 -
[67]
Originally by: TorsoCollector
Originally by: Yeshua Christ
Originally by: TorsoCollector all that happens is everyones characters become perfect equal skill training machines apeasing butthurt idiots like you and completely takes away the point of even having character attributes
And it wasn't like this before with Achura alts springing up everywhere anyway? Get over it. If it bothers you so much gtfo of this game and go find some other game to troll.
then support a nerf of achura if you hate them so much don't turn the game into some hippie rainbow everything has to be fair because everyone is a winner land
Your completely oblivious to the downsides both I and Dirk have pointed out. Make sure you've strapped that tinfoil hat on tight. Your going to need it when the game doesn't fall down around your ears in March.
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.10 08:52:00 -
[68]
Originally by: TorsoCollector double skill training for first 1.6mil
Shrug - better than just having everybody start with 1.6m- which probably was the alternative. Having faster training for the startup phase is a good compromise IMHO between Noobs being overly worried about never catching up and being frustrated about long waiting perdios before the can do anything and skill training still meaning something.
Originally by: TorsoCollector t3 ships with skill requirements so low people will be able to fly them within their first month
And if there were no other pre-reqs and no skill loss and they would only cost a couple million you would actually have a point.
Originally by: TorsoCollector rearranging attributes? why not just give everyone 30 attributes across the board
This one I agree with - re-arranging attributes is sick. and utterly lame. Makes attributes almost irrelevant. If they would allow it *once* within the first few weeks I would shrug it off (though still not like it). My attributes are not even close to optimal - so what? Never kept me from enjoying the game.
Originally by: TorsoCollector basically ccp has taken away all benifit to having an older character or planning ahead
This is just one of those emo-exaggerations.
Originally by: TorsoCollector
The game is losing all purpose very quickly and ccp is just helping it along
If for yout the purpose of the game had anything to do the speed of the first 1.6 m SP you have other problems.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.02.10 08:55:00 -
[69]
Leaving EVE is really dropping the ball on this one. No post on the forst 3 pages? For shame.
THE END IS NEIGH! Save us Ishtar Jesus! |
Neamus
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Posted - 2009.02.10 09:05:00 -
[70]
Originally by: TorsoCollector double skill training for first 1.6mil t3 ships with skill requirements so low people will be able to fly them within their first month rearranging attributes? why not just give everyone 30 attributes across the board basically ccp has taken away all benifit to having an older character or planning ahead
they have't addressed real problems like Sov and macro characters. The other day I was in some low sec in amarr space and all 3 systems were filled completely with macro haulers. Or you know you flying through a mission system and you see 15 CNR's on scan all owned by jibberish named 6 month noob corpers? guess what all macros but has ccp done anything? NO
How many titans are there ffs? 100+ does that make sense to anyone. the lines are all static in 0.0 because theres no way to make progress on a enemy with a half thought out defense. bob loses all thier Sov and even with all their briges and jammers down can the big mouthed goons&friends do anything? NO
The game is losing all purpose very quickly and ccp is just helping it along
I don't usually reply to this sort of post but for some reason I feel compelled to here.
Double skill training for 1st 1.6m SP:
How else are you going to attract new players in? There has to be some kind of incentive to start a mature MMO, saying to a new player "you are never going to be skilled enough to hang out with the older players" is akin to saying "dont bother signing up" to alot of people.
Low SP requirements for T3 ships:
For a start the skill requirements aren't finalised, just because you see it on sisi doesn't mean that's how its going to stay. And even if those are the final requirements, its a similar point to the one above. Making someone play for 3 years before they are allowed to use T3 ships isn't going to win any new fans.
Oh and fear not, you can still retain your elitist attitude as a person who opts to fly a T3 ship in their 1st month wont have anywhere near the level of support skills to make them effective against older players. You may argue that they shouldn't be flying them that early, and I would agree, but at least they have the choice.
Sov:
I'll concede there is a problem here, but still even with its faults it does work so I can imagine that its not at the top of CCP's "to do" list yet.
Macro Miners:
I have mixed feelings about this which I'm not going to get into here. Personally, as long as they are paying a monthly fee to CCP, don't overwhelm the game and they leave me alone to play as I wish, then I'll do the same for them.
What I do take issue with is trail account macro miners, ban them all.
Titans:
Bleh really don't care, imo its just human nature taking its course. If you place something shiny in front of people and give them sufficient time and the tools they need to get it. Well, eventually they'll get it.
100+ Titans is ok I think, considering EvE's total population.
BoB and and the Goons:
I'm sorry but you just don't have a clue what your talking about here. I have 1st hand experience with some of what is happening, let me tell you that it takes quite a while and a considerable amount of effort to redeploy and mobilise a force the size that the goons have moving right now.
The events triggered by the BoB debacle haven't really even started yet, the final outcome is far from certain.
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.02.10 09:08:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: CCP Dropbear I find that scenario highly unlikely. The entry barriers to T3 aren't so much focused on traditional ones such as skills, they operate in a largely new paradigm with its own unique barriers (such as the constant risk of subsystem skill loss). It would also be difficult for a one month old character to afford one. Going off what I personally have observed of the T3 production process (something I have only a passing involvement in, keep in mind) it is not my impression that Tech III vessels will be so easily supplied that their price reaches 1-month-old-character levels of affordability.
Speaking of expected prices and so on, about how costly do you expect them to be to build? With some sleepers apparently doing more damage than player gank battleships, while having nice remote tank, EW, and better behaviour, and the worm-hole rules seriously limiting the number and size of ships you can bring along, it looks like bringing back stuff for T3 production is going to be extremely costly. At least of the 0.0 ones...
Somewhere around 250M? 500M? 1B?
I would like to intervene here by saying the Sleepers that were spawned on Singularity yesterday were not the easiest types, by far. As such expect them to come into various difficulty flavors that are not going to deal the same amount of damage. In all cases, please remember this remains work in progress and we will keep adjusting them until the release. |
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ObamaLLama
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Posted - 2009.02.10 09:31:00 -
[72]
Edited by: ObamaLLama on 10/02/2009 09:31:34
Originally by: TorsoCollector
Originally by: Yeshua Christ
Originally by: TorsoCollector all that happens is everyones characters become perfect equal skill training machines apeasing butthurt idiots like you and completely takes away the point of even having character attributes
And it wasn't like this before with Achura alts springing up everywhere anyway? Get over it. If it bothers you so much gtfo of this game and go find some other game to troll.
then support a nerf of achura if you hate them so much don't turn the game into some hippie rainbow everything has to be fair because everyone is a winner land
but thats what the progressive's want. They like their rainbow parades in IRL ,why not in EVE to? The same type people messed up Warhammer Online before it even released.
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Kiran
Minmatar EXPLORATIS Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.02.10 09:51:00 -
[73]
Originally by: TorsoCollector In short this is beoming star wars galaxies post NGE. with tech 3 and everything else going the way it is everyone is gonna get to be a jedi and pvp is a pointless exercise with no benifits
Oh boy are you so wrong there. For that to happen all ships would have their high, mid and low slots removed and permament weapons put in place to make the game easier as they would be considered to complicated.
All skills would be removed over night along with the market and blueprints. You would then have to quest for said items and at the end of it all be given the skill and item thats needed to use it.
The game would not be a point and click anymore but a twitch game instead with everything speeded up to silly speed.
You would be able to fly a T3 or Titan from day one as CCP believe it taks to long for new players to get into the game.
Thats what the NGE would be like in Eve. Stop moaning and wait and see what happens adapt and survive or die out like the dinosaurs. ----------------------------------------------- Kiran-"Falling is a kind of a peacful experience. But its the sudden stop at the end thats the killer." |
Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.02.10 10:18:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Xiao Endo Edited by: Xiao Endo on 10/02/2009 05:28:19
What the OP means is they are re-doing EVE to look like this:
Hell yes.
I don't know why he's so negative about it, I personlly can't wait. EVE has had a real lack of ponies up until now. The much-needed pony injection is belated but very welcome. Hats off to CCP once again.
I had to laugh at that. Why are you so familiar with the My Little Pony universe? Some repressed psychedelic equine urges bubbling to the surface there?
On a more serious note, some people are just fearful of any kind of change, and are reluctant to give anything a fair chance, hence why we get so many of the 'eve is dying' threads.
This doesn't mean we should rush to embrace anything new with no critical analysis, but we should give a change some time to give it an opportunity to establish itself before we judge it.
I haven't tried out the new stuff yet, but I am willing to give it some time, and see how it progresses before I start weeping for the good ol' days. Personally, I don't think I will be, as what I have seen so far looks like steps in the right direction. The modular ship idea is quite novel, the new ship fitting screen is a wonderful idea, as now I can see the ship I'm fitting, and some of the minor interface tweaks are great gameplay enhancements, such as the 'freeze overview' feature.
I'm not sure how these T3 skills are going to work, because you don't want to make it several years before a new player can fly one, but you don't want to make it too easy, either. It looks as though they have gone for a new system where you have to learn them every time you get a new ship, which I suppose would be equivocable to the 'unit experience' you get in some strategy games. To me, that sounds like an acceptable compromise. With the prerequisites, and the inevitable cost, I think it will be a fair time before a new player could pilot one, and even longer before they become good at piloting it effectively. |
Yeshua Christ
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Posted - 2009.02.10 10:20:00 -
[75]
Originally by: ObamaLLama Edited by: ObamaLLama on 10/02/2009 09:31:34
Originally by: TorsoCollector
Originally by: Yeshua Christ
Originally by: TorsoCollector all that happens is everyones characters become perfect equal skill training machines apeasing butthurt idiots like you and completely takes away the point of even having character attributes
And it wasn't like this before with Achura alts springing up everywhere anyway? Get over it. If it bothers you so much gtfo of this game and go find some other game to troll.
then support a nerf of achura if you hate them so much don't turn the game into some hippie rainbow everything has to be fair because everyone is a winner land
but thats what the progressive's want. They like their rainbow parades in IRL ,why not in EVE to? The same type people messed up Warhammer Online before it even released.
Yes because obviously people from the public outside the development team for that game made the decisions to change it. |
Fiire Watch
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Posted - 2009.02.10 10:21:00 -
[76]
Dont want your stuff. |
Primnproper
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Posted - 2009.02.10 10:37:00 -
[77]
Originally by: TorsoCollector yes I have been on the test server and how much you can change it isn't the issue the fact that you can change it at all is the problem 1 point or 10 it is still buying SP plain and simple
No really its not, its allowing you to redistribute your attributes meaning that you can change which things train quicker or slower but keeping the same number of points in total.
Also, and this may come as a bit of a shock to you in your infinate wisdom but you can actually already buy these things called implants which give you bonuses to your stats and by your logic are much closer to buying sp's than this will ever be, shock horror you better quit now they've been in the game forever..... |
Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.02.10 10:53:00 -
[78]
Originally by: ObamaLLama but thats what the progressive's want. They like their rainbow parades in IRL ,why not in EVE to? The same type people messed up Warhammer Online before it even released.
Why is it people fear simplifying things? Making things more accessible does not mean that the game will become any less complex. It is the refinement of an idea, changing it until it reaches optimum efficiency. Sometimes things don't work, but they can always be rolled back.
What these people seem to be objecting to is that the majority of people will take the game in a direction they don't want to go. This may be the case, but guess what? The majority of players dictate the direction of the game because that is where the money is. No company can pander to the niche at the expense of the mainstream. That is commercial suicide. Simultaneously, they can't betray the original vision, as they want to keep their existing customers, who are the foundation upon which it is built. I'm not saying this doesn't happen, as Sony did betray the original vision of SWG, which is why it collapsed so dramatically, but CCP are not Sony, and they are solely dependent on this game, so they won't want to take undue risks.
Don't be so negative about these changes. Give them a chance. If they bring more people into the game, surely this is a good thing? I don't want EVE to lose any of it's style, complexity, or harshness, but I have no reason to think it will.
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TorsoCollector
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Posted - 2009.02.10 10:55:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Primnproper
Originally by: TorsoCollector yes I have been on the test server and how much you can change it isn't the issue the fact that you can change it at all is the problem 1 point or 10 it is still buying SP plain and simple
No really its not, its allowing you to redistribute your attributes meaning that you can change which things train quicker or slower but keeping the same number of points in total.
Also, and this may come as a bit of a shock to you in your infinate wisdom but you can actually already buy these things called implants which give you bonuses to your stats and by your logic are much closer to buying sp's than this will ever be, shock horror you better quit now they've been in the game forever.....
way to read the thread there buddy you like 3 hours behind in the conversation....
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.02.10 11:21:00 -
[80]
some surprises the skill adjustment ability well so be it . Well get used to it |
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Tornan
Minmatar Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.10 11:27:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Ratchman
Originally by: ObamaLLama but thats what the progressive's want. They like their rainbow parades in IRL ,why not in EVE to? The same type people messed up Warhammer Online before it even released.
Why is it people fear simplifying things? Making things more accessible does not mean that the game will become any less complex. It is the refinement of an idea, changing it until it reaches optimum efficiency. Sometimes things don't work, but they can always be rolled back.
What these people seem to be objecting to is that the majority of people will take the game in a direction they don't want to go. This may be the case, but guess what? The majority of players dictate the direction of the game because that is where the money is. No company can pander to the niche at the expense of the mainstream. That is commercial suicide. Simultaneously, they can't betray the original vision, as they want to keep their existing customers, who are the foundation upon which it is built. I'm not saying this doesn't happen, as Sony did betray the original vision of SWG, which is why it collapsed so dramatically, but CCP are not Sony, and they are solely dependent on this game, so they won't want to take undue risks.
Don't be so negative about these changes. Give them a chance. If they bring more people into the game, surely this is a good thing? I don't want EVE to lose any of it's style, complexity, or harshness, but I have no reason to think it will.
making things more accesible and simpler is the meaning of making things less complex for one.
And second, this game is a niche market and it has succeded, it may not be wow but not everything has to be. |
Ramson
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Posted - 2009.02.10 11:29:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Ramson on 10/02/2009 11:29:38
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne The end is NI!
Nooo not NI .. please dont say NI... il get you the shrubbery.
P.S joke thread is a bigger joke then I thought!
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Primnproper
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Posted - 2009.02.10 12:21:00 -
[83]
Originally by: TorsoCollector
Originally by: Primnproper
Originally by: TorsoCollector yes I have been on the test server and how much you can change it isn't the issue the fact that you can change it at all is the problem 1 point or 10 it is still buying SP plain and simple
No really its not, its allowing you to redistribute your attributes meaning that you can change which things train quicker or slower but keeping the same number of points in total.
Also, and this may come as a bit of a shock to you in your infinate wisdom but you can actually already buy these things called implants which give you bonuses to your stats and by your logic are much closer to buying sp's than this will ever be, shock horror you better quit now they've been in the game forever.....
way to read the thread there buddy you like 3 hours behind in the conversation....
I would have thought thats about the time it takes for these simple concepts to finally sink into what passes for your brain. ...
Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Tzepesh
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Posted - 2009.02.10 12:37:00 -
[84]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: CCP Dropbear I find that scenario highly unlikely. The entry barriers to T3 aren't so much focused on traditional ones such as skills, they operate in a largely new paradigm with its own unique barriers (such as the constant risk of subsystem skill loss). It would also be difficult for a one month old character to afford one. Going off what I personally have observed of the T3 production process (something I have only a passing involvement in, keep in mind) it is not my impression that Tech III vessels will be so easily supplied that their price reaches 1-month-old-character levels of affordability.
Speaking of expected prices and so on, about how costly do you expect them to be to build? With some sleepers apparently doing more damage than player gank battleships, while having nice remote tank, EW, and better behaviour, and the worm-hole rules seriously limiting the number and size of ships you can bring along, it looks like bringing back stuff for T3 production is going to be extremely costly. At least of the 0.0 ones...
Somewhere around 250M? 500M? 1B?
I would like to intervene here by saying the Sleepers that were spawned on Singularity yesterday were not the easiest types, by far. As such expect them to come into various difficulty flavors that are not going to deal the same amount of damage. In all cases, please remember this remains work in progress and we will keep adjusting them until the release.
YOU ARE ALL WRONG!
You say "It would also be difficult for a one month old character to afford one." ok one month. But I know carebears who made bilions in 3 months (training for raven > 8 hours/day missions - 30mil/h x 8hours x 20 days, voila 4.8bil/month).
They will have the skills to fly t3 in 3 months too!!???!!???
GIVING easy reward - the best "stuff" - to new players is a bad idea BECOSE they will loose THE INTEREST for the game.
period
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.02.10 12:41:00 -
[85]
Originally by: TorsoCollector basically ccp has taken away all benifit to having an older character or planning ahead
what, like... 6 months before one can remap his brains...? |
StickyFingerz
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.02.10 12:50:00 -
[86]
Originally by: TorsoCollector basically ccp has taken away all benifit to having an older character or planning ahead
*******s, when the game first released have you ANY idea how little documentation was avilible about atributes and such?
i submit that its YOU that is a "newer" player; the folks who rolled just after launch most likly have the most screwed up atributes.
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TorsoCollector
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Posted - 2009.02.10 16:28:00 -
[87]
Originally by: StickyFingerz
Originally by: TorsoCollector basically ccp has taken away all benifit to having an older character or planning ahead
*******s, when the game first released have you ANY idea how little documentation was avilible about atributes and such?
i submit that its YOU that is a "newer" player; the folks who rolled just after launch most likly have the most screwed up atributes.
then support a one time reroll you ditz not rerolling twice a year to give people a backdoor way to buy SP |
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